Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2020/21 Discussion

SAFMUTD

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I agree with the first line in bold, they were brought in to do that but have struggled to adjust to the demand it seems. Perhaps we'll see more of them next season, I'm hoping for a Fred like resurgence once they realise it isn't working out for them and it's now or never at the top level.

I'm saying the opposite. The players we brought in this summer was mostly for depth, but Cavani is better than Martial and has rightly started instead. We cannot have another summer where we improve our bench instead of the first 11. There are quite a few players in the team that shouldn't play anywhere near as much as they do but we don't have better options.

I've never been a fan of buying depth unless they're under 23. We should be buying Sancho, Haaland, or Grealish and benching the likes of Martial, Fred/McTomminay or god forbid, finally filling the RW position.

I understand that last summer was probably an anomaly with covid and whatnot, but we really can't afford to stagnate any further than we already have. This team needs breaking up and rebuilding now before the likes of Bruno start to think about moving on instead.
I missunderstood you completely then, I agree we have way too many squad (quality) players in the team specially in midfield and just as you I think, bar some exceptions, squad players should never be stagnated players that are happy to have a squad role. They must be either promising youngsters breaking through or made players that can take the starting place if the starter level drops.

Unfortunately for us I don't think we have the financial muscle to buy the players you mention. I would focus on bringing at least one of them and a couple of promising young ones. I think at this stage its better to get a big signing/automatic starter rather than several "medium" ones.
 

crossy1686

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I missunderstood you completely then, I agree we have way too many squad (quality) players in the team specially in midfield and just as you I think, bar some exceptions, squad players should never be stagnated players that are happy to have a squad role. They must be either promising youngsters breaking through or made players that can take the starting place if the starter level drops.

Unfortunately for us I don't think we have the financial muscle to buy the players you mention. I would focus on bringing at least one of them and a couple of promising young ones. I think at this stage its better to get a big signing/automatic starter rather than several "medium" ones.
Completely agree.

I think Sancho is inevitable at this point, and Grealish will be dependant on what happens with Pogba staying or going. I feel that both of them would improve us. along with Diallo and Greenwood playing more next season hopefully. Maybe even Garner getting a place in the first team would be nice to see, he's been impressive on his loans.

Still hoping VDB can have some worth next season too, after what happened with Fred I refuse to write any new signing off again until it's clear they're completely done.
 

Zlaatan

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So we’ve got no tactics or style? Because I repeatedly see that we have no pattern of play
I never said that so you'd be better off asking someone who did. My point was that it's not a new thing.

Doesn't 'patterns of play' specifically refer to prescribed pre-rehearsed moves as opposed to tactics or style?
I'm not really sure how it's defined, but if you're correct then aren't pre-rehearsed moves part of your tactics which then becomes identified as your style? It's all intertwined for me.

I'd argue that patterns of play is about more than simply having player A run to zone 2 if X happens. Like Barca's tiki-taka was for me a pattern of play, but that wasn't pre-rehearsed moves and it's not really what I'd call tactics either. I guess I see patterns of play as more of a part of a teams identity, how they want to play, than simply specifically set moves. But maybe I'm alone in that.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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In term of xG (expected goal), with or without Bruno, they are the same(below images). Even before Bruno came, we created similar amount of good quality chances and we were 4th best in xG last season. I think Bruno came to make big difference in finishing our chances that we couldn’t do it as he is also a goal scoring midfielder not just creative midfielder. Pereira & Lingard were just not good enough.

24 league games without Bruno 19/20:



25 league games with Bruno 20/21:

 

ash_86

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Still ill

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A crazy stat and puts the Caf into perspective a bit. So much negativity in those 12 months. Lies, damn lies and statistics, sure but really difficult to argue that there has been no progress made when the stat is actual results over an entire year.
 

romufc

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Wow! That's insane, really. Not bad, considering it's all down to individual brilliance!
Management is easy ey! Sign some individual ballers and hope for them to produce moment of magiv every game.

Then when you lose a game, call out every player saying they are championship standard at best... yet they can produce individual brilliance for a year.

Arsenal have very good individual players
Lampard did so what is their excuse?
 

Threesus

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The stat is good, but it doesn’t mean a thing when we keep crashing out of semi finals and not getting a trophy. A manager of a club like Utd should always be judged by trophies. Would anyone here not take Julian Nagelsmann if he became available over the summer? Because that’s the quality of manager we are going to need if we are to dethrone city/liverpool.

Someone mentioned earlier, but our players are not good enough to leave most of the decision making on the field to themselves. In our squad, only Bruno, Pogba and Rashford have the x- factor, the ability to make something out of nothing. Everyone else needs coaching and instructions, something that I have not seen enough of from ole.
 

Skåre Willoch

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The stat is good, but it doesn’t mean a thing when we keep crashing out of semi finals and not getting a trophy. A manager of a club like Utd should always be judged by trophies. Would anyone here not take Julian Nagelsmann if he became available over the summer? Because that’s the quality of manager we are going to need if we are to dethrone city/liverpool.

Someone mentioned earlier, but our players are not good enough to leave most of the decision making on the field to themselves. In our squad, only Bruno, Pogba and Rashford have the x- factor, the ability to make something out of nothing. Everyone else needs coaching and instructions, something I have not seen enough of from ole.
I would not take Nagelsmann if he became available in the summer, at this moment in time.

How many trophies has Nagelsmann won, btw? That’s right. Zero. Ole has won two league titles and a cup :cool:
 

united_99

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The individual brilliance of AWB, McFred, Shaw & Co :drool:

Plus the individual brilliance of Rashford who must be a truly brilliant player (imo he is), but reading comments in his player performance thread he is doing nothing for 85 minutes but then comes up with individual moments. How bad must the other coaches in the league be that they can’t stop such individual brilliance :drool:

And then obviously there is the brilliance of Penandez who does all on his own: Scoring, assisting himself, winning penalties, losing the ball but winning back all the lost balls himself, etc. :drool:
 

Threesus

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I would not take Nagelsmann if he became available in the summer, at this moment in time.

How many trophies has Nagelsmann won, btw? That’s right. Zero. Ole has won two league titles and a cup :cool:
If you believe that we can win the league/CL under Ole, tell me what makes you believe in him because I can’t see it.
 

Skåre Willoch

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If you believe that we can win the league/CL under Ole, tell me what makes you believe in him because I can’t see it.
The overall improvement of the results, recruitment and squad building, the intent to play attacking and fun football, development of talented young players, 4 losses in 39 games league games.

Tell me why you don’t believe in him, because I don’t understand it.
 

Withnail

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The stat is good, but it doesn’t mean a thing when we keep crashing out of semi finals and not getting a trophy. A manager of a club like Utd should always be judged by trophies. Would anyone here not take Julian Nagelsmann if he became available over the summer? Because that’s the quality of manager we are going to need if we are to dethrone city/liverpool.

Someone mentioned earlier, but our players are not good enough to leave most of the decision making on the field to themselves. In our squad, only Bruno, Pogba and Rashford have the x- factor, the ability to make something out of nothing. Everyone else needs coaching and instructions, something that I have not seen enough of from ole.
You literally have no idea how much coaching or instructions the players get and neither do I but to suggest this team are sitting second in the league and have scored the most goals so far this year based on a wing and a prayer is insane.

If the players felt they weren't getting enough coaching or instruction he'd have long since lost the dressing room. These are professional players. They very quickly suss if a manager isn't up to it or is a spoofer and you'd have heard all about it by now.
 

anant

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The stat is good, but it doesn’t mean a thing when we keep crashing out of semi finals and not getting a trophy. A manager of a club like Utd should always be judged by trophies. Would anyone here not take Julian Nagelsmann if he became available over the summer? Because that’s the quality of manager we are going to need if we are to dethrone city/liverpool.

Someone mentioned earlier, but our players are not good enough to leave most of the decision making on the field to themselves. In our squad, only Bruno, Pogba and Rashford have the x- factor, the ability to make something out of nothing. Everyone else needs coaching and instructions, something that I have not seen enough of from ole.
Ok, a simple exercise for you- name any team in PL that has finished in top 4 for two seasons (consecutively or not) in the last 10-15 years, despite having a manager who was just "vibes" and relied on "individual brilliance". (Hell, I could have argued even one season, but I know the topic will then change to whether Lampard, AVB are good managers or not (I believe they are better than what people give them credit for at the very least).

If any manager is a fraud, they'll get caught very quickly, especially in a league as unforgiving as PL. The point is simple, a team cannot finish in top 4 without having a decent manager, however, a team with a decent manager can finish outside top 4.

As far as Nagelsmann is concerned, I like him, and would be my preferred choice for next manager should things go south under Ole, but people need to remember that there is no manager except maybe Pep (and that too with good amount of resources) who can guarantee success. 2 months ago we were going drooling over Hassenhuttl, an year ago it was Poch, right now it's Rodgers. But, if you apply the same level of scrutiny to their performances that we apply to Ole, you'd notice that Ole is possibly in the same bucket as those two.

There are two sides to every story, if one side is saying we are bottlers because we crashed out of 4 semis, the other side will always, and rightfully bring up the point as to how many semis did our our preferred candidates reach over any two year spell? Look at our underlying stats - they are pretty good any way you look at them. We were 5th-6th best team since Fergie retired . In a matter of 2 seasons, we're 3rd best team in the league by every metric and not really reliant on cat-like reflexes of our GK.

The players we're signing are exciting and more hits than misses, there isn't a doom and gloom around United, the football is exciting, and our younger players are promising and exciting. Some of our most well worked goals of the past decade bar one or two were scored under Ole. I can go on and on, but you get the gist
 

NoPace

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I would not take Nagelsmann if he became available in the summer, at this moment in time.

How many trophies has Nagelsmann won, btw? That’s right. Zero. Ole has won two league titles and a cup :cool:
Ole is doing a decent job in the short-term and a very, very good job in the long-term (turning the squad over by trimming the bloat, got guys in the right roles mostly, playing youth and the younger core players like Rashford, McTominay, Shaw and Wan-Bissaka are increasingly consistent).

But I see the way Leipzig play and yeah they look to me like they're better drilled than we are and the players are better managed. I tend to fall in love with pressing and attacking football because for me it comes down to us needing 85+ points every year and that just seems more realistic if we're dominating games with a Klopp-esque press or constant possession like Guardiola.
 

youngrell

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Do you win anything for this or being 2nd in the 2020 calendar year table?
No you don’t. But it does show progression, something we have consistently shown under Ole, so why do fans think that progression is likely to stop any time soon?

The trend shows we are on the way up. We haven’t reached the summit yet but are on the way so have some patience.
 

Zlatan 7

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No you don’t. But it does show progression, something we have consistently shown under Ole, so why do fans think that progression is likely to stop any time soon?

The trend shows we are on the way up. We haven’t reached the summit yet but are on the way so have some patience.
Nice analogy, some people don’t enjoy the walk to the top anymore, they want an helicopter drop off just for a photo.
 

SAFMUTD

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The overall improvement of the results, recruitment and squad building, the intent to play attacking and fun football, development of talented young players, 4 losses in 39 games league games.

Tell me why you don’t believe in him, because I don’t understand it.
Improvement of the results comparing against what? against the half season Mourinho left when the squad turned against him? yes he improved on that. But not improved against the previous season.

Recruitment and squad building is really questionable, if we take Bruno who is a blockbuster success the other ones are really questionable, we have a really weak defense after spending 130M on two defensive players, Daniel James who is clearly not good enoguh, 50M for VDB who is on the path to become deadwood and Diallo who is one for the future so we can't judge if he is or isnt a good signing just yet. Overall I would say its an average transfer record with a really marked highlight on Bruno.

Development of talented young players, well if they are talented its only natural they'll develop isnt it? Shaw and McTominay have clearly improveed under Ole, those I agree. But besides them I don't think any others have Greenwood and specially Williams have regressed and Tuanzabe looks like its on his way to another club in the summer after playing really badly.


No consistent improvement, we perform under a roller coaster with really marked highs and lows, average transfer record, consistent problems that havent been solved like defending at set pieces, and we seem to crumble under preassure. Like we saw in the UCL group stage.

I can understand some believe he can still improve us to a certain level, but how can anyone seriously think Ole really can take us to win the UCL is clearly deluded. We are not even remotely close to achieve that and it even mentioning it at this point is a sign of how ridiculous this debate has become in the forum.
 
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Olecurls99

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Tell me. When, since Fergie left, have we looked close to winning the Champions league?
 

Olecurls99

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Improvement of the results comparing against what? against the half season Mourinho left when the squad turned against him? yes he improved on that. But not improved against the previous season.

Recruitment and squad building is really questionable, if we take Bruno who is a blockbuster success the other ones are really questionable, we have a really weak defense after spending 130M on two defensive players, Daniel James who is clearly not good enoguh, 50M for VDB who is on the path to become deadwood and Diallo who is one for the future so we can't judge if he is or isnt a good signing just yet. Overall I would say its an average transfer record with a really marked highlight on Bruno.

Development of talented young players, well if they are talented its only natural they'll develop isnt it? Shaw and McTominay have clearly improveed under Ole, those I agree. But besides them I don't think any others have Greenwood and specially Williams have regressed and Tuanzabe looks like its on his way to another club in the summer after playing really badly.


No consistent improvement, we perform under a roller coaster with really marked highs and lows, average transfer record, consistent problems that havent been solved like defending at set pieces, and we seem to crumble under preassure. Like we saw in the UCL group stage.

I can understand some believe he can still improve us to a certain level, but how can anyone seriously think Ole really can take us to win the UCL is clearly deluded. We are not even remotely close to achieve that and it even mentioning it at this point is a sign of how ridiculous this debate has become in the forum.
Tell me. When, since Fergie left, have we looked close to winning the Champions league?
 

Skåre Willoch

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Improvement of the results comparing against what? against the half season Mourinho left when the squad turned against him? yes he improved on that. But not improved against the previous season.

Recruitment and squad building is really questionable, if we take Bruno who is a blockbuster success the other ones are really questionable, we have a really weak defense after spending 130M on two defensive players, Daniel James who is clearly not good enoguh, 50M for VDB who is on the path to become deadwood and Diallo who is one for the future so we can't judge if he is or isnt a good signing just yet. Overall I would say its an average transfer record with a really marked highlight on Bruno.

Development of talented young players, well if they are talented its only natural they'll develop isnt it? Shaw and McTominay have clearly improveed under Ole, those I agree. But besides them I don't think any others have Greenwood and specially Williams have regressed and Tuanzabe looks like its on his way to another club in the summer after playing really badly.


No consistent improvement, we perform under a roller coaster with really marked highs and lows, average transfer record, consistent problems that havent been solved like defending at set pieces, and we seem to crumble under preassure. Like we saw in the UCL group stage.

I can understand some believe he can still improve us to a certain level, but how can anyone seriously think Ole really can take us to win the UCL is clearly deluded. We are not even remotely close to achieve that and it even mentioning it at this point is a sign of how ridiculous this debate has become in the forum.
Good, long post, adding nothing new. Same old arguments about not seeing any progress, despite clear evidence of the opposite.

I’m deluded, you’re not. I believe in him, and that’s obviously ridiculous.

It’s good you’re here to set the record straight and kill all optimism, it’s unbearable with all the positivity in here.
You’re not the hero we deserve, you’re the hero we need. Keep fighting the happiness in the name of “how the standards have dropped” or “deluded fan base”.
 

SAFMUTD

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Good, long post, adding nothing new. Same old arguments about not seeing any progress, despite clear evidence of the opposite.

I’m deluded, you’re not. I believe in him, and that’s obviously ridiculous.

It’s good you’re here to set the record straight and kill all optimism, it’s unbearable with all the positivity in here.
You’re not the hero we deserve, you’re the hero we need. Keep fighting the happiness in the name of “how the standards have dropped” or “deluded fan base”.
Nice chat pal, you gave no arguments but keep it up.
 

Majima

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It's league games so there's only one trophy in play but keep moving your goalposts and hating watching the club you claim to support :lol:
I don't subscribe to any blind worship cultist nonsense.

We're supposedly so good under him, yet I don't see our name on any trophies anywhere. On the contrary I have seen us, under him, consistently bottling it when it matters the most so far.

So tell me, what is impressive about a nice run when the pressure is off, if you're going to be left with nothing to show for it at the end?
 

Skåre Willoch

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Nice chat pal, you gave no arguments but keep it up.
I’ve argued against the same exact points you’re making over and over and over again.
I have nothing new to add, and don’t really seek to try to “win” another endless loop of pointless debate about the same topic that’s been around for months.
I simply disagree with you. Basically all of your points.
Now I can go ahead and call you deluded, ridiculous or whatever can be applicable to the endless negativity, but I’ve done that before as well, and surprisingly that didn’t convert any naysayers either.

Argue your “Please define progress”-points with someone else. I’ll just keep being a deluded optimist instead.