Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Permanent manager

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
9,299
You posted it, not me so you obviously thought it was.

But hey it's just the ones who can be critical of Ole that are "trying to score points with people". Hypocrisy at it's finest my man.

As I say, how's about not jumping in a when a poster states a clear fact, in that a post is agenda driven made up garbage? But hey, you just have to try and score points right?

You've got a funny history though Bilbo, back Moyes to the hilt and wanted him to stay. Wanted both LVG and Mourinho sacked. Now back to backing Ole to the hilt.
I was definitely wavering on Moyes pretty hard by the end, and my support of him was largely due to the players he had reportedly secured for the summer. That feels like a million years ago now though.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
9,469
Location
Somewhere out there
The website of the scandinavian branch of the supporter club has an interesteing article today regarding beating the so-called lesser clubs (everyone bar the "traditional" top 6). They have divided the 16 matches into groups of four in chronological order and the table shows points, goals and XG of each group.

There is obvious progress.

Points in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 5
Match 5-8: 3
Match 9-12: 6
Match 13-16: 9
Goals in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 4
Match 5-8: 3
Match 9-12: 9
Match 13-16: 10
Expected goals in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 6,42
Match 5-8: 6,95
Match 9-12: 8,12
Match 13-16: 8,97

The article can be found here (paywall): https://www.united.no/nyhetsarkiv/jo-united-er-blitt-mye-bedre-mot-de-mindre-gode/?fbclid=IwAR31A20BtFO5QvO5EnGy8kI5oiMtAaE5nnONeoeMGYp6-Z8kBfokpamaIig
More than half of our PL wins this season have come since December 1st. That article is an extremely long winded way of stating the pretty damn obvious.
 

TRUERED89

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
2,007
Location
England
He thinks that United are going places just because City didn't play a reserve team against us! It is absolutely fecking pitiful.
Not a great comment, definitely agree. But he hasn't stooped any lower than Moyes that's for sure. Or gone on a "heritage" rant like the portuguese tw@t..
 

Alabaster Codify7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
5,397
Location
Wales
Such a nonsense post.


He wasnt just a super sub, dont mind me asking but what age on you?



He had some glorious moments coming on as a sub but literally took Beckham spot when we won the 2003 title and that was playing right wing. Thats without even covering all the previous seasons.



The whole underdog bit you have just invented in your, complete nonsense :lol:


Won I dont know how much cups/titles playing for the best team about, but had that underdog mentality basically implying he wasnt a winner.

Not at all, 37.

Ole thrived as a player when being overlooked / underestimated - ie - the opposition had been focusing for most of the game on the starting strikers then, BAM.

A bit like his managerial habits of relying solely on counter-attacking.

Agree to disagree, then.
 

Douglas Crockett

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
29
My God man, you said sacking Ole will result in 6 managers in 6 years, are you really struggling? My logic is that 6 years ago from now is 13th January 2014 and SAF wasn't manager then, you know, basic common sense logic.

13th January 2020 (today)
Now @Douglas Crockett go back 6 yearss
1. 13th January 2019
2. 13th January 2018
3. 13th January 2017
4. 13th January 2016
5. 13th January 2015
6. 13th January 2014

Sir Alex hasn't been manager since May 2013. Do keep up mate and apologise. And the logic of even trying to include a guy who had the job for 27 years in an argument about not giving managers time or being a shambles is beyond silly.
You're right. I should've said six years and seven months. Sorry for the rounding error. Have you thought about picking up a hobby to replace your compulsive nitpicking? Six years is of course 72 months as opposed to 79 months.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
9,469
Location
Somewhere out there
You're right. I should've said six years and seven months. Sorry for the rounding error. Have you thought about picking up a hobby to replace your compulsive nitpicking? Six years is of course 72 months as opposed to 79 months.
And even if you did, you surely see the sillyness of using the last day of a managers 27 year spell (9681 days to be exact) at a club to include him as part of post condemning the club for going through managers too fast and being a shambles? I mean, some common sense please man.

I have no idea why you've focused on that anyway rather than the rest of my post, on average here our mangers since Fergie have been given 20 months. I won't be as silly as to include SAF in my post to make it look like we give everyone of our past 5 managers 6.8 years on average :lol:. Answer me this Doug, which other big club would allow the following league finishes and still give their managers 20 months on average?

7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th.

Let's be honest, the answer is none. United are still one of the most patient clubs around, the most patient top club for sure. All that is expected is a basic standard and you keep the job.

Also Doug... since June 2013 the following clubs and their managers:

Madrid x 6 (Zidane is 2 of the 6)
Bayern x 5
Chelsea x 5
United x 4
PSG x 3
Barcelona x 3
Juventus x 3

And all of those clubs have been winning titles during that spell.
 
Last edited:

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
2,654
Calm down, scoring vs Norwich is nothing to bloody crow about. Shambolic.
Why not?.

So when we don't score against so called lesser sides, fans are out here saying Ole out because we cannot break down smaller teams and a low block. Our team isnt good enough.

When we score 4 against a smaller team, its only Norwich?
 

ReddBalls

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
360
More than half of our PL wins this season have come since December 1st. That article is an extremely long winded way of stating the pretty damn obvious.
Still some people on here don't see that progress have actually been made since the start of the season. "Not been able to beat the shit teams" has been a stick to beat Ole with. The long winded article shows that the problem is getting solved.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
1,223
Why not?.

So when we don't score against so called lesser sides, fans are out here saying Ole out because we cannot break down smaller teams and a low block. Our team isnt good enough.

When we score 4 against a smaller team, its only Norwich?
You’ve litterally bastardised my post & then reiterated the exact point I made about the OgS in & OgS out crowds.

What a terrible level of shithousery.

Also to add context [2 days after the fact] the post I responded to was one made minutes after we went 1-0 up.

Unsure what your point is. . . Posting what they did after going 1-0 up against Norwich was an overreaction, you know what my top 2 lines you edited out say.
 

Jeffthered

Full Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
1,346
The problem we have is that even the positives are spun to be negatives under Ole. A lot of our players are playing quite a bit better than they did previously.

  • Rashford has gone up a level. He is now in the group of top strikers in this league. Europe even.
  • McTominay has vastly improved
  • Fred has gone from a collossal waste of money to a player that we can rely on
  • Martial is scoring and assisting and has a smile on his face
  • Greenwood and Williams are emerging and have been handled excellently
All of these things are real positives for this club, whatever happens. These positives have all happened under our current coaching staff, and there is no guarantee that any of this would have happened under different managers, but instead of giving any credit for this there are comments made that suggest they would be even better under a better coach. That we are actually hurting these players.
Yes, these are welcome observations... but I disagree that this is some sort of special management style. The Prem League, in terms of quality, is the most average it has been for some time. Liverpool are miles ahead, with only City close by in terms of consistency and quality. My point being is that 'average' almost seems to be the new 'very good'. Fred still, in my opinion, isn't even close to what I want from a Manchester United first XI centre midfielder. But yes he is better than he was. McTominay is getting better.. but to me, he should still be fighting for his place, alongside other players. He isn't that good, and I like him very, very much. Martial is still Martial, no change there. Still not a leader. Not a match-winner.. not an inspiration. Rashford, McTominay.. these are players that have stepped up a gear. Martial hasn't. Greenwood is a v good footballer, and is emerging as our key talent. Daniel James has been steady following a great start. Williams.. still too early, but he seems ok.

But none of this equates to some fantastic coaching. Rashford held out for a new contract remember, and has had to show a little humility if anything....

Sorry, no OGS 'magic' here. We are 5th, in an average league. I could not say we are 'better'.
 

Hambley

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
138
Location
Moscow
When someone claims there's a progress since we beat the worst PL's team by far this season I be like you gotta be kidding, bro. Moreover, using it to justify our current table position or such a fanatic credit to Ole looks ridiculous. Previous managers were slaughtered by fans for even less. Not that I'm so against Ole because I don't see any sense to sack him and replace him with another one unlucky guy to struggle once more under Glazers, but some people give an enormous credit to Ole, although his results are nearly same as they were under Mourinho his last season.
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
9,299
Yes, these are welcome observations... but I disagree that this is some sort of special management style. The Prem League, in terms of quality, is the most average it has been for some time. Liverpool are miles ahead, with only City close by in terms of consistency and quality. My point being is that 'average' almost seems to be the new 'very good'. Fred still, in my opinion, isn't even close to what I want from a Manchester United first XI centre midfielder. But yes he is better than he was. McTominay is getting better.. but to me, he should still be fighting for his place, alongside other players. He isn't that good, and I like him very, very much. Martial is still Martial, no change there. Still not a leader. Not a match-winner.. not an inspiration. Rashford, McTominay.. these are players that have stepped up a gear. Martial hasn't. Greenwood is a v good footballer, and is emerging as our key talent. Daniel James has been steady following a great start. Williams.. still too early, but he seems ok.

But none of this equates to some fantastic coaching. Rashford held out for a new contract remember, and has had to show a little humility if anything....

Sorry, no OGS 'magic' here. We are 5th, in an average league. I could not say we are 'better'.
I wouldn't say that this is an average league at all. There are two great teams in this league right now. Those aside there isn't ever a fixture where you can't foresee an unusual result. I haven't bothered doing any PL accumulators this season because its just bad value. All 7 clubs made it though their respective European groups and an English team is favourite to win both tournaments as of right now. That doesn't strike me as anything like an average league, but each to their own on that one.

As for Ole's role in all this - its also open to interpretation. We don't see enough of what goes on at Carrington to say 'I'm right', but we can see that all of those players have improved, and are improving. If I was manager I would want credit for that, and if he had a sexier CV I'm certain we wouldn't even be questioning it - none of us.

Thats what makes it more difficult to be a defender of this manager than the opposite. We have real life issues to discuss. We know what has happened. We know the results & performances, and we know who has improved and who hasn't etc etc. Its all out there to be defended or shot down depending on how you feel. What we don't have is an alternate timeline to judge the other views. Its so easy to say 'we would be better under X' or 'we should have spent our money on the midfield' or whatever else because nobody has to justify that with reality. Its all just opinion - and lets be honest most people think they know more about football than the average guy, and that they see things that others don't. How can you argue against that?

We don't know if Poch would make us better. We don't know if this team would have been better with a different summer recruitment strategy. We don't know if Greenwood or Williams would have emerged the way that they have, or whether Rashford would have scored 10 goals more or 10 goals less. Its just an endless series of 'we don't knows' which creates unlimited bullets for those who just don't fancy this management team. Ultimately all we have to do is decide on what has happened. I think a lot of players have improved. I think our transfer strategy is sound and I'm confident it will continue to be. I think the team are moving in the right direction and could be really excellent in 2 seasons time, and I also think that being in 5th and doing okay so far in the cups is a better achievement that is given credit for. Many disagree.
 

FerociousCorgis

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
696
i mean not sure how previous managers would get the boot for not finishing 4th yet Ole is getting a huge pass it seems if we can't snag that 4th spot at the worst, especially considering how this has to be one of the poorest top 4 races in a long time. Spurs and arsenal are in shambles, chelsea are pretty young and inconsistent it seems as well. Currently 11 points back of freaking leicester FFS. Need to get some sort of midfield signing n and then if Ole can't show signs of actual coaching and get top 4 bin him off and find a real manager.
 

Flexdegea

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
178
Not at all, 37.

Ole thrived as a player when being overlooked / underestimated - ie - the opposition had been focusing for most of the game on the starting strikers then, BAM.

A bit like his managerial habits of relying solely on counter-attacking.

Agree to disagree, then.

Again what are you actually talking about............its like some sort of pseudo football psychology theory you just plucked out based on nothing :lol:
 

Ish

Lights on for Luke
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
24,823
Location
Where fans' expectations are too high
Like always it is not all black or white.

Pride, passion, love for the club... All the things he gets mocked out. They count, you know. You actually put your job in front of everything else. And I really believe he does that, so all of you with a cnut, Molde manager, out of his depth and so on are pretty much wrong. I mean, the man set up a better counter attack then Jose ever did. Which is pretty damning on Jose, but never mind. He also has players 100% behind him with his best player out of it for pretty much all season so far.

His structure, coaching and overall direction leaves a lot of question and am pretty sure that he is not the one to take us further in terms of an elite club. So, I hope board has a plan B in place already. I also hope they have another manager in mind as I think he can't turn us in force (hopefully wrong).

But, all the hysteria and paranoia are unwarranted. He will not set us years back. That much is clear.
Jim you bugger! It’s been a while man. Good post.
 

Eriku

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
14,066
Location
Oslo, Norway
Not at all, 37.

Ole thrived as a player when being overlooked / underestimated - ie - the opposition had been focusing for most of the game on the starting strikers then, BAM.

A bit like his managerial habits of relying solely on counter-attacking.

Agree to disagree, then.
You do know that the majority of Ole’s goals and his best games to goals ratio came from matches he started? He was a really good option from the bench, but it’s been overstated how specialised he was when it came to that.
 

Jeffthered

Full Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
1,346
I wouldn't say that this is an average league at all. There are two great teams in this league right now. Those aside there isn't ever a fixture where you can't foresee an unusual result. I haven't bothered doing any PL accumulators this season because its just bad value. All 7 clubs made it though their respective European groups and an English team is favourite to win both tournaments as of right now. That doesn't strike me as anything like an average league, but each to their own on that one.

As for Ole's role in all this - its also open to interpretation. We don't see enough of what goes on at Carrington to say 'I'm right', but we can see that all of those players have improved, and are improving. If I was manager I would want credit for that, and if he had a sexier CV I'm certain we wouldn't even be questioning it - none of us.

Thats what makes it more difficult to be a defender of this manager than the opposite. We have real life issues to discuss. We know what has happened. We know the results & performances, and we know who has improved and who hasn't etc etc. Its all out there to be defended or shot down depending on how you feel. What we don't have is an alternate timeline to judge the other views. Its so easy to say 'we would be better under X' or 'we should have spent our money on the midfield' or whatever else because nobody has to justify that with reality. Its all just opinion - and lets be honest most people think they know more about football than the average guy, and that they see things that others don't. How can you argue against that?

We don't know if Poch would make us better. We don't know if this team would have been better with a different summer recruitment strategy. We don't know if Greenwood or Williams would have emerged the way that they have, or whether Rashford would have scored 10 goals more or 10 goals less. Its just an endless series of 'we don't knows' which creates unlimited bullets for those who just don't fancy this management team. Ultimately all we have to do is decide on what has happened. I think a lot of players have improved. I think our transfer strategy is sound and I'm confident it will continue to be. I think the team are moving in the right direction and could be really excellent in 2 seasons time, and I also think that being in 5th and doing okay so far in the cups is a better achievement that is given credit for. Many disagree.
Appreciate the balanced response, so thanks for that. But I disgaree with a number of points. Firstly, to suggest that this Prem is anything but average actually surprises me. Look at us, and we are one place outside a CL place!!!!! Is there much difference between us, and say Everton? Arsenal? Sheff Utd? Wolves? Please don't state that these are great teams.. and we certainly are not... it's all much-of-a-muchness. This is not neccesarily unique to the Prem... La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1.. all I feel are in a state of 'transition', with clubs building up capacity and quality again.. Serie A is interesting right now, as the likes of Napoli, Roma, Lazio, Inter all pushing Juve closer than usual... Tottenham reached the CL final, and look at them, so what does that tell you? Re OGS on the training ground, well, I cannot see any real tactic apart from playing on the break. We don't seek to out play, out fight, play direct, set-pieces... we don't have flying full-backs etc... other managers define their teams with a plan, and I do not see an OGS 'style' of play.
 

Footyislife

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
864
I wouldn't say that this is an average league at all. There are two great teams in this league right now. Those aside there isn't ever a fixture where you can't foresee an unusual result. I haven't bothered doing any PL accumulators this season because its just bad value. All 7 clubs made it though their respective European groups and an English team is favourite to win both tournaments as of right now. That doesn't strike me as anything like an average league, but each to their own on that one.

As for Ole's role in all this - its also open to interpretation. We don't see enough of what goes on at Carrington to say 'I'm right', but we can see that all of those players have improved, and are improving. If I was manager I would want credit for that, and if he had a sexier CV I'm certain we wouldn't even be questioning it - none of us.

Thats what makes it more difficult to be a defender of this manager than the opposite. We have real life issues to discuss. We know what has happened. We know the results & performances, and we know who has improved and who hasn't etc etc. Its all out there to be defended or shot down depending on how you feel. What we don't have is an alternate timeline to judge the other views. Its so easy to say 'we would be better under X' or 'we should have spent our money on the midfield' or whatever else because nobody has to justify that with reality. Its all just opinion - and lets be honest most people think they know more about football than the average guy, and that they see things that others don't. How can you argue against that?

We don't know if Poch would make us better. We don't know if this team would have been better with a different summer recruitment strategy. We don't know if Greenwood or Williams would have emerged the way that they have, or whether Rashford would have scored 10 goals more or 10 goals less. Its just an endless series of 'we don't knows' which creates unlimited bullets for those who just don't fancy this management team. Ultimately all we have to do is decide on what has happened. I think a lot of players have improved. I think our transfer strategy is sound and I'm confident it will continue to be. I think the team are moving in the right direction and could be really excellent in 2 seasons time, and I also think that being in 5th and doing okay so far in the cups is a better achievement that is given credit for. Many disagree.
All we've seen is inconsistency. I don't think I'd call that as player improvement.

A competent board would do anything to sign Poch. He's miles better than Ole and has proven he can improve players at several clubs while playing attacking football. But sadly we don't have a competent board and he'll get snapped up by someone else as we will meddle in mediocrity for the next few years.
 

Douglas Crockett

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
29
And even if you did, you surely see the sillyness of using the last day of a managers 27 year spell (9681 days to be exact) at a club to include him as part of post condemning the club for going through managers too fast and being a shambles? I mean, some common sense please man.

I have no idea why you've focused on that anyway rather than the rest of my post, on average here our mangers since Fergie have been given 20 months. I won't be as silly as to include SAF in my post to make it look like we give everyone of our past 5 managers 6.8 years on average :lol:. Answer me this Doug, which other big club would allow the following league finishes and still give their managers 20 months on average?

7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th.

Let's be honest, the answer is none. United are still one of the most patient clubs around, the most patient top club for sure. All that is expected is a basic standard and you keep the job.

Also Doug... since June 2013 the following clubs and their managers:

Madrid x 6 (Zidane is 2 of the 6)
Bayern x 5
Chelsea x 5
United x 4
PSG x 3
Barcelona x 3
Juventus x 3

And all of those clubs have been winning titles during that spell.
[/
RAB I believe we are talking at cross purposes because we are looking at two different things.

My overall point is that over six years and seven months United will have had six different managers if they fire and replace Ole now. To me that creates an unstable environment at a time when United are going through a difficult and lengthy period of rebuilding from ground zero.

You, on the other hand, are looking at how much time clubs give managers before replacing them. Your point is that there are top clubs in the world that turn over their managers on a short-term basis and do quite well. It's a good point but five of the 7 clubs you list, don't have to and didn't have to rebuild. They play in leagues where they or at most along with one other team dominate their league year-end year out. They really don't seem to be comparable to United in terms of today's difficult and lengthy rebuilding.

Of the seven you list only Chelsea is in a league where not even a top four position is guaranteed. My opinion is the Chelsea are not facing a rebuilding job like United but reasonable people could differ.

The type of rebuilding United has undertaken, whether by choice or financial necessity, is developing its young players. They are not engaged in the type of rebuilding undertaken by Manchester City who simply outspent everybody and bought the top players in the world. My bias is for a United manager with expertise in developing young players which is a long term process. I'm not sure that hiring a tactical wizard to direct a team with zero depth and a partial midfield would be the answer. Maybe if United was going to spend like City did, this would be feasible but there's no sign that I can see that United are going to do that.

QUOTE]
 

hungrywing

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
7,632
Location
Your Left Ventricle
The website of the scandinavian branch of the supporter club has an interesteing article today regarding beating the so-called lesser clubs (everyone bar the "traditional" top 6). They have divided the 16 matches into groups of four in chronological order and the table shows points, goals and XG of each group.

There is obvious progress.

Points in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 5
Match 5-8: 3
Match 9-12: 6
Match 13-16: 9
Goals in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 4
Match 5-8: 3
Match 9-12: 9
Match 13-16: 10
Expected goals in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 6,42
Match 5-8: 6,95
Match 9-12: 8,12
Match 13-16: 8,97

The article can be found here (paywall): https://www.united.no/nyhetsarkiv/jo-united-er-blitt-mye-bedre-mot-de-mindre-gode/?fbclid=IwAR31A20BtFO5QvO5EnGy8kI5oiMtAaE5nnONeoeMGYp6-Z8kBfokpamaIig
That's pretty interesting. Thank you for posting that.

To be fair, it'd be even better if one could compare it with league avg. against placement by season (i.e. if the fifth/sixth place team tends to go through an uptick such as this every seasons)
 

Bristol_Red_87

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
33
I jumped on the 'Ole out' bandwagon after Arsenal. A young, developing side we may well be, but i had strong reservations about tactics, (or lack of), personnel and mentality/motivation.

Anyhow, to remind me just how bleak things were under DM and to act as a comparison to those who have fallen since with OGS' first full season at the helm, I've had a look back through Moyes, LVG and Jose's starts to their first (or only) season in charge:

1. JM (16-17)
P22 W11 D8 L3 F34 A21 PTS 41
2. LVG (14-15)
P22 W11 D7 L4 F36 A21 PTS 40
3. DM (13-14)
P22 W11 D4 L7 F34 A27 PTS 37
4. OGS (19-20)
P22 W9 D7 L6 F36 A25 PTS 34

Now, personally, I'd argue the squad we have now is just as underwhelming as that DM inherited from Sir Alex. Obviously there were a couple of 'World-Class' operators in Rooney and RVP, both of whom largely under performed under Moyes.

LVG's signings largely flopped but he still managed a respectable start after 22 games and Jose continued on the theme of making United harder to beat to lead us to 41 points after the same number of games.

A lot has been talked about in terms of the EPL being in transition and i would agree that with the exception of Liverpool, it's the weakest it's been for some time.

So if you consider the above, do the facts state the obvious in the Ole is inherently weaker than his predecessors or at least underperforming with the tools at his disposal (I'm not claiming this is a great United side by any stretch...merely playing devil's advocate) or do those who are still on board Ole's juggernaut or indeed entirely neutral have some points to put to the floor..
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
3,946
Location
NYC
How anyone can look at the premier league at the moment and think it is average is utterly beyond me.
The correct word is competitive. People say it's average because of the points gap and you see "big" teams losing to smaller teams, but that's not the whole story as of now.
 

Andersonson

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
670
How anyone can look at the premier league at the moment and think it is average is utterly beyond me.

Just take a look at the Champions league. And how well the english teams has been doing there recently.

Last season it was Spurs and Liverpool in the final. And 4 teams in the quarter finals.

Season before that, english team in the final

So far in the current one, 4 teams in the quarters..

English teams has been really really good in Europe lately. Its by far the most challenging league.
 

Eriku

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
14,066
Location
Oslo, Norway
I jumped on the 'Ole out' bandwagon after Arsenal. A young, developing side we may well be, but i had strong reservations about tactics, (or lack of), personnel and mentality/motivation.

Anyhow, to remind me just how bleak things were under DM and to act as a comparison to those who have fallen since with OGS' first full season at the helm, I've had a look back through Moyes, LVG and Jose's starts to their first (or only) season in charge:

1. JM (16-17)
P22 W11 D8 L3 F34 A21 PTS 41
2. LVG (14-15)
P22 W11 D7 L4 F36 A21 PTS 40
3. DM (13-14)
P22 W11 D4 L7 F34 A27 PTS 37
4. OGS (19-20)
P22 W9 D7 L6 F36 A25 PTS 34

Now, personally, I'd argue the squad we have now is just as underwhelming as that DM inherited from Sir Alex. Obviously there were a couple of 'World-Class' operators in Rooney and RVP, both of whom largely under performed under Moyes.

LVG's signings largely flopped but he still managed a respectable start after 22 games and Jose continued on the theme of making United harder to beat to lead us to 41 points after the same number of games.

A lot has been talked about in terms of the EPL being in transition and i would agree that with the exception of Liverpool, it's the weakest it's been for some time.

So if you consider the above, do the facts state the obvious in the Ole is inherently weaker than his predecessors or at least underperforming with the tools at his disposal (I'm not claiming this is a great United side by any stretch...merely playing devil's advocate) or do those who are still on board Ole's juggernaut or indeed entirely neutral have some points to put to the floor..
As underwhelming? Moyes inherited a squad of serial winners, reigning league champions. Most of the integral components were past their best days, sure, but do you not think Rio, Vidic, Carrick, Rooney, RvP, etc. would walk right into our line-up these days?
 

Bristol_Red_87

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
33
As underwhelming? Moyes inherited a squad of serial winners, reigning league champions. Most of the integral components were past their best days, sure, but do you not think Rio, Vidic, Carrick, Rooney, RvP, etc. would walk right into our line-up these days?
Rooney, possibly RVP yes. But based on that season, the other's wouldn't have walked in, no, as you rightly point out, most if not all were well past their peaks.
 

Bristol_Red_87

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
33
How anyone can look at the premier league at the moment and think it is average is utterly beyond me.
I watch a lot of EPL games. It might be unfair to make this statement after coming out of a festive period that invariably leads to a drop in quality, but in my opinion, just because the League is competitive, doesn't mean to say its strong. The football league is competitive..

Again as has been alluded to elsewhere, a lot of Europe's top leagues/teams appear to be in transition. I feel this slightly skews the argument when it comes to English teams in Europe.
 

Jeffthered

Full Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
1,346
How anyone can look at the premier league at the moment and think it is average is utterly beyond me.
OK. Two questions:

How anyone can look at the premier league at the moment and think it is average is utterly beyond me.
OK, I have two questions :

1: Do you think we are an average team, our current team, squad, etc?

2: Aside from Liverpool and Man City, who the teams that are not average (in your opinion). I could concede Leicester as being a good side this season.

The Prem is competitive, for sure. But the quality is average.
 

UnitedSofa

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
214
Why not?.

So when we don't score against so called lesser sides, fans are out here saying Ole out because we cannot break down smaller teams and a low block. Our team isnt good enough.

When we score 4 against a smaller team, its only Norwich?
I know, it’s pathetic, complain about something and then rectify it and then make an excuse for rectifying it to simply continue a narrative.

I’ve soon found out that you can never win on the CAF and someone will always have a moan.

If Ole won the treble again, people would still complain.
 

alexthelion

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
250
Why not?.

So when we don't score against so called lesser sides, fans are out here saying Ole out because we cannot break down smaller teams and a low block. Our team isnt good enough.

When we score 4 against a smaller team, its only Norwich?
Welcome to the ligical world of the Ole-out brigade.

Nothing he does will ever satisfy them, you only have to read threads after a win, it's like we've been beaten again or, as you said, moan we don't win against lower teams and then moan when we do.
 

alexthelion

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
250
I jumped on the 'Ole out' bandwagon after Arsenal. A young, developing side we may well be, but i had strong reservations about tactics, (or lack of), personnel and mentality/motivation.

Anyhow, to remind me just how bleak things were under DM and to act as a comparison to those who have fallen since with OGS' first full season at the helm, I've had a look back through Moyes, LVG and Jose's starts to their first (or only) season in charge:

1. JM (16-17)
P22 W11 D8 L3 F34 A21 PTS 41
2. LVG (14-15)
P22 W11 D7 L4 F36 A21 PTS 40
3. DM (13-14)
P22 W11 D4 L7 F34 A27 PTS 37
4. OGS (19-20)
P22 W9 D7 L6 F36 A25 PTS 34

Now, personally, I'd argue the squad we have now is just as underwhelming as that DM inherited from Sir Alex. Obviously there were a couple of 'World-Class' operators in Rooney and RVP, both of whom largely under performed under Moyes.

LVG's signings largely flopped but he still managed a respectable start after 22 games and Jose continued on the theme of making United harder to beat to lead us to 41 points after the same number of games.

A lot has been talked about in terms of the EPL being in transition and i would agree that with the exception of Liverpool, it's the weakest it's been for some time.

So if you consider the above, do the facts state the obvious in the Ole is inherently weaker than his predecessors or at least underperforming with the tools at his disposal (I'm not claiming this is a great United side by any stretch...merely playing devil's advocate) or do those who are still on board Ole's juggernaut or indeed entirely neutral have some points to put to the floor..
I'd say he is doing as well as expected with the players he has available. This team, although very young, has the potential to get much better as the players gain experience but, unfortunately, is not yet at the same level as previous managers had. Moyes especially, should have done much better with the players he had.

It will now take time to rebuild the squad left from the mish mash of manager philosophies that have gone before and, imo, Ole has made a good start on that aspect.
 

Eriku

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
14,066
Location
Oslo, Norway
Rooney, possibly RVP yes. But based on that season, the other's wouldn't have walked in, no, as you rightly point out, most if not all were well past their peaks.
You don't think Rio or Vida would be an improvement on Lindelöf? You don't think Carrick in 2013, having come off his best season for us, would be of tremendous use to our midfield?

To me you are either underrating them, or you are overrating our current squad... or both. At any rate I reckon the gap in our viewpoints can't be bridged, so I'll leave it at that.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
14,362
You don't think Rio or Vida would be an improvement on Lindelöf? You don't think Carrick in 2013, having come off his best season for us, would be of tremendous use to our midfield?

To me you are either underrating them, or you are overrating our current squad... or both. At any rate I reckon the gap in our viewpoints can't be bridged, so I'll leave it at that.
Did you see Rio at QPR the season after? Vidic lasted half a season like the poster said these guys were finished. It’s just a credit to Fergie if anything. I mean would you swap Welbeck for Rashford or Martial?
 

ReddBalls

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
360
Did you see Rio at QPR the season after? Vidic lasted half a season like the poster said these guys were finished. It’s just a credit to Fergie if anything. I mean would you swap Welbeck for Rashford or Martial?
Thing is, Moyes did not clear the squad and rebuild. Had he done that, he probably would hva fared better.
 

matt10000

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
493
Location
Salford UK
I mean, even if you said 6 managers in 7 years it'd be a bit daft trying to include SAF don't you think? Considering SAF was manager for 26 years. It'd be a silly as claiming Arsenal are a triggy happy shambles for having 3 managers in 2 years.
If you go back seven years SAF was manager and therefore you have to count him in the number of managers we have had in the last seven years or else it would be factually incorrect.
 
Last edited:

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
2,654
Welcome to the ligical world of the Ole-out brigade.

Nothing he does will ever satisfy them, you only have to read threads after a win, it's like we've been beaten again or, as you said, moan we don't win against lower teams and then moan when we do.
Yep, the thing is nothing Ole will do will satisfy the caf.

Even though alot of us feel he is not the right man, sometimes credit is due.