Players rating (vs West Ham)

[uranushk1]

Barthez 6 - at least he should save the first goal....
G.Neville 6.5 - at fault on second goal, but is solid at other times
Blanc 7 - Overall performance is still good though cannot stop Defoe for his goal.
Johnsen 7
Silverstre 6.5
Beckham 9 - Absolute amazing first goal, and involved in nearly every goals we scored. MOM
Keane 7.5 - as combative as usual
Butt 7.5 - tireless run and amazing goal, but also give the ball away at times.
Scholes 7.5 - good link up works and work rate
RVN 6.5 - I sense his form has dropped in recent matches. Hope he can recover quickly.
Ole 8 - Good opportunities goal and also create Scholes' goal.

 

[Roy]

Fab - 6.5
Gaz - 7
Ronny - 6.5
Laurent - 6.5
Micky - 5.5
Butt - 7
Keano - 8
Scholesy - 9
Becks - 9
Ruud - 6
Ollie - 8

 

[Gazza]

The whole team should get a rating of 6. They didn’t attack enough, while they didn't defend – they obviously don’t care about United. In fact, Blanc was too slow and Silvestre was pathetic – sell the whole defense and buy the Lazio defense.

Beckham was his usual incredible self tho.

 

[SOCALRED]

Having payed $14.95 to watch the game "live" I'll tell you how I saw it:
All in all its always great watching United especially when they are a goal down, todays game was great value for the end to end exitement:
BARTHEZ unspectacular 6
NEVILLE ordinary 5.5
JOHNSON passabe against this team 6
BLANC fairly steady 6.5
SILVESTRE just ok 6
SCHOLES played well getting back to his usual self 7.5
BUTT had a decent game 7
KEANO played key role but did not stand out 8
BECKHAM inspirational 9
VAN NISTLEROOY too isolated and closely marked 6
SOLSKJEAR played a blinder 8

 

[peterb]

only saw on TV but for me scholes was MOM with beckham a close 2nd.

 

[Blazing RED]

SCHOLES played superb imo

 

[Huiting]

Scholes and Beckham both played really well, but Beckham just about edge it for me. Two goals and an assist, the first goal sheer class. Well, Fergie praised Becks, so I can't exactly disagree with him!

 

[Fawaz]

Scholes is my MOM ...
Beckham was awesome ...
Butt & Keane were ok .. Butt made few wrong passes though but nothing lethal.
RVN? well, I don't know. He needs to pull away from the 18 yards when he is marked like that.
Ole .. good enough
Blanc .. very good .. I would have said excellent if he could have stopped Defoe's goal. I'm not taking it from West Ham though, well played by them.
Gary .. good
Johnsen .. very good
Silvestre .. when it's one on one with Silvestre, he will be on the losing side. He needs to be more aggressive. That first goal is partially his fault.
Barthez .. alright I guess but Lomas' header should have been saved in my opinion.
good performance and a good away fight. That Forlan shot should have gone in

Good luck on the next match

 

[Livvie]

Blanc is too slow for top class defenders. It's no good saying how much better he is than when he came - that may be true, but the fact is, he will be caught out for pace when we face the big guns.

Silvestre is still not sold enough. Like someone said, he's an excellent wing back, but he has defensive frailties.

Beckham was outstanding - what a goal that first one was - and anyone who says he should go abroad or wherever, needs their head read.

Ruud didn't score, but he was in the thick of it all the time, and defences must panic a bit just by him being there.

Ole's persistence brought the 3rd goal, and it wasn't as easy as they implied on the radio - it look quite a difficult shot from an awkward angle. His cross to Scholes was excellent, as he managed to hold off two defenders.

I think we need Gary in defence with Blanc, and maybe Ronny on the right? Tho I'd be interested to see this team -

Barthez
Johnsen
Neville
O'Shea
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes or Butt
Giggs
RVN
Ole

Not sure what the benefit was of bringing off Ole or Ruud, and replacing them with Forlan and Fortune, at such a crucial time in the game.

 

[Dans]

Livvie, you're proposed line up includes 4 central defenders - a tad odd don't you think? I wouldn't ask Ronny to play at right back having played is entire career in the centre of defence or midfield. Neither would I ask any of the others to play left back - I think you advocate this for O'Shea.

It seems clear, well to me anyway, that the defence is the area that requires improvement over the summer. I would hope to see a left back and a central defender. I leave the matter of who up to the manager.

 

[Dans]

I stand corrected on your left back Livvie.

 

[scorpion_boy_01]

BARTHEZ 6
NEVILLE 6
JOHNSON 6
BLANC 6
SILVESTRE 6
SCHOLES 8
BUTT 7
KEANE 7
BECKHAM 9
RVN 7
OGS 8

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Not sure what the benefit was of bringing off Ole or Ruud, and replacing them with Forlan and Fortune, at such a crucial time in the game.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Quite simply, refreshing the team with fresh legs. Ole and Ruud weren't seeing much of the ball in the last few minutes, but you obviously don't want to make changed in defence while our midfield always had a decent chance of gradding another. With Scholes being fouled and Beckham scoring, it worked

 

[Travis Bickle]

Originally posted by Fawaz:
<strong>Butt made few wrong passes though but nothing lethal.
) </strong><hr></blockquote>


Except giving away the ball for WH's third goal. If that had been JSV we would have had a special thread dedicated to this.

Butt gave the ball away easy possesion several times, once to the cost of a goal. While he scored a fine goal, his performance and the idea that he makes defence tighter was blown apart by us conceeding 3 goals.

 

[Frupp]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong> I wouldn't ask Ronny to play at right back having played is entire career in the centre of defence or midfield. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Johnsen used to be a striker. He's even got a game for the national side as a striker, he even scored as far as I can remember

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>Livvie, you're proposed line up includes 4 central defenders - a tad odd don't you think? I wouldn't ask Ronny to play at right back having played is entire career in the centre of defence or midfield. Neither would I ask any of the others to play left back - I think you advocate this for O'Shea.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm pretty sure Ronny has played as a right back so it might be worth a go. Neville and O'Shea in the centre, and Silvestre on the left.

Whatever, it needs sorting. And soon.

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Frupp:
<strong>

Johnsen used to be a striker. He's even got a game for the national side as a striker, he even scored as far as I can remember </strong><hr></blockquote>

Bloody hell, really?! The guy got more to his game than I could ever have guessed! Ronny for right back!

 

[Waky]

I must point out, that even Scholes played very well on attacking direction he was awful on defence. I don't know who was supposed to defend left midfield, but in the first 20 minutes there were no one. Silvestre had to defend against two WH players all the time. Scholes was named as left midfield and it seemed he should have been defending there, but where was he? Playing central midifielder and forgotting all his defensive duties
The worst was the second goal when Silvestre made foward run and the only one who was on the left side was Ole.

But all the same. The game after the first 20 mins was excellent except WH's third goal. The defence was solid after Silvestre got help to the left side.

 

[Used to be Jip Jaap]

Originally posted by Travis Bickle:
<strong>


Except giving away the ball for WH's third goal. If that had been JSV we would have had a special thread dedicated to this.

Butt gave the ball away easy possesion several times, once to the cost of a goal. While he scored a fine goal, his performance and the idea that he makes defence tighter was blown apart by us conceeding 3 goals.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly! It is rather tiresome that people keep coming out of the woodwork every time Butt doesn't make a complete arse of himself in a game. It's good to be supportive of the homegrown players - I am myself - but Butt should only be used in the easier PL games.
Sure, JSV has been guilty of losing possession too often in bad positions this season but we know what he's capable of when he finds his game - and that is a hell of a lot more than what Butt can deliver when playing at the top of HIS game.

 

[MauritianRed]

Though Becks scored two and created two other, my MOM was Scholes. The ginger prince was just awesome. Considering that Becks is playing well again, and Veron is getting better and better, the signs are there that Utd are peaking at the right moment.

 

[uranushk1]

I appreciate Scholes performance, his actions, link up and work rate is really great. Yet the MOM must be Beckham. He is the player who make the difference just as Giggs was in the game of Bayen. If not for his genius talnet we cannot twice equalize within short time, and then the outcome of the result may be completely different.

 

[Edgar]

googoo ga ga

 

[Travis Bickle]

Originally posted by Used to be Jip Jaap:
<strong>

Exactly! It is rather tiresome that people keep coming out of the woodwork every time Butt doesn't make a complete arse of himself in a game. It's good to be supportive of the homegrown players - I am myself - but Butt should only be used in the easier PL games.
Sure, JSV has been guilty of losing possession too often in bad positions this season but we know what he's capable of when he finds his game - and that is a hell of a lot more than what Butt can deliver when playing at the top of HIS game.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Butt played OK on Sat. He scored a good goal. But he simply didn't close down enough and gave the ball directly to opposition for the WH goal. People seem oblivious to this, and remain convinced that running and being loyal to the cause makes a good footballer.

Our defence remains a problem. Letting in 2 goals against Derby and 3 against WH is ok against such teams. But if we loose easy goals against the Bayerns and Reals we will not be scoring 5 in response.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Travis Bickle:
<strong>

Butt played OK on Sat. He scored a good goal. But he simply didn't close down enough and gave the ball directly to opposition for the WH goal. People seem oblivious to this, and remain convinced that running and being loyal to the cause makes a good footballer.

Our defence remains a problem. Letting in 2 goals against Derby and 3 against WH is ok against such teams. But if we loose easy goals against the Bayerns and Reals we will not be scoring 5 in response.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You seem to be drawing that conclusion from this game alone, and forgetting that Butt played a big part in our 12 match winning run.

 

[Used to be Jip Jaap]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
You seem to be drawing that conclusion from this game alone, and forgetting that Butt played a big part in our 12 match winning run.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I do not subscribe to the theory that Butt was the main reason behind the change in United's fortunes. IMO the key reasons were: (1) the team as a whole started playing with bit more defensive discipline and (2) was facing easier opposition.

I have seen Butt in at least 50 games for United - a good handful of which live games - and I feel that I can say with complete confidence that Nicky Butt just isn't good enough to play at the level United aspires to today. Simple as that...

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Used to be Jip Jaap:
<strong>

I can say with complete confidence that Nicky Butt just isn't good enough to play at the level United aspires to today. Simple as that...</strong><hr></blockquote>

he's a good solid midfielder..

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Used to be Jip Jaap:
<strong>

Well, I do not subscribe to the theory that Butt was the main reason behind the change in United's fortunes. IMO the key reasons were: (1) the team as a whole started playing with bit more defensive discipline and (2) was facing easier opposition.

I have seen Butt in at least 50 games for United - a good handful of which live games - and I feel that I can say with complete confidence that Nicky Butt just isn't good enough to play at the level United aspires to today. Simple as that...</strong><hr></blockquote>
What don't you like about him? Do you like any players who play his sort of DM role?

 

[Travis Bickle]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
You seem to be drawing that conclusion from this game alone, and forgetting that Butt played a big part in our 12 match winning run.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am drawing my conclusion from the seemingly false idea that we have a tight defence when he plays - and therefore let fewer goals in.

 

[Used to be Jip Jaap]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

he's a good solid midfielder..</strong><hr></blockquote>

I never denied that. He's a solid Premiership player - probably among the 10-15 best players in his position in the league. Problem is, today United measure themselves by Europe's best, not the Premiership average. Players like Butt may be good enough to win you the championship but he isn't CL class. Surely, you'd have to agree with that? Do you think Liverpool or Arsenal would consider buying Nicky Butt? No, I thought not...

 

[Used to be Jip Jaap]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
What don't you like about him? Do you like any players who play his sort of DM role?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Easy to answer:

I don't like the way he loses the ball in dangerous positions EVERY time he plays - usually several times per game. Often this doesn't cost United but in games against top class opposition it borders on suicide. AND I don't like the way he invariably fails to contribute in any meaningful way to United's constructive play in games against exactly this type of opposition. It's painfully obvious that Butt is out of his depth against anybody better than the West Hams, Middlesbroughs, Boltons, etc. of this world.

Re the second question: I am in awe of a certain Roy Keane! Nuff said. I think Jens Jeremies is a poor man's Roy Keane - and I think Nicky Butt is a poor man's Jens Jeremies.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Used to be Jip Jaap:
<strong>

Easy to answer:

I don't like the way he loses the ball in dangerous positions EVERY time he plays - usually several times per game. Often this doesn't cost United but in games against top class opposition it borders on suicide. AND I don't like the way he invariably fails to contribute in any meaningful way to United's constructive play in games against exactly this type of opposition. It's painfully obvious that Butt is out of his depth against anybody better than the West Hams, Middlesbroughs, Boltons, etc. of this world.

Re the second question: I am in awe of a certain Roy Keane! Nuff said. I think Jens Jeremies is a poor man's Roy Keane - and I think Nicky Butt is a poor man's Jens Jeremies.

</strong><hr></blockquote>
SAF said yesterday:
"We always expect Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt to do well because of the experience they have.

"Nicky was integral to our resurgence earlier this season, he's been absolutely marvellous for us."

He doesn't seem to have any qualms in playing him in the CL, and does credit him with being a signficant part of our winning run.

 

[Used to be Jip Jaap]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
SAF said yesterday:
"We always expect Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt to do well because of the experience they have.

"Nicky was integral to our resurgence earlier this season, he's been absolutely marvellous for us."

He doesn't seem to have any qualms in playing him in the CL, and does credit him with being a signficant part of our winning run.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is a well-established fact that Fergie rates Butt highly. Too highly, I think. And I can understand that - the class of '92 will always have a special place in his heart, all of them. But sometimes you need to curb such emotional commitments IMO. I would never argue that Butt is useless or just average - on the contrary, he's a very good player who'd be a regular in most Premiership sides - but United aspire to be more than just an average Prem side, right? Again, do you really think that Juve, Real, Bayern, Arse or Poo would consider buying Butt? Spurs or Villa, sure thing, but not United's rivals to the major trophies. That tells you something.

IMO Butt should be a squad player, no more, no less...

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Used to be Jip Jaap:
<strong>

It is a well-established fact that Fergie rates Butt highly. Too highly, I think. And I can understand that - the class of '92 will always have a special place in his heart, all of them. But sometimes you need to curb such emotional commitments IMO. I would never argue that Butt is useless or just average - on the contrary, he's a very good player who'd be a regular in most Premiership sides - but United aspire to be more than just an average Prem side, right? Again, do you really think that Juve, Real, Bayern, Arse or Poo would consider buying Butt? Spurs or Villa, sure thing, but not United's rivals to the major trophies. That tells you something.

IMO Butt should be a squad player, no more, no less...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thats nearer the mark, which I didn't think your earlier posts were.

 

[Used to be Jip Jaap]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Thats nearer the mark, which I didn't think your earlier posts were.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Okie-dokie! I haven't expressed myself clearly.