Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch

[JPRouve]

In the eyes of the PSG owners, yes. It's why they got rid of Ancelotti, blanc, tuchel (who even got to a CL final!).

They did not get of Ancelotti(he resigned to join Real Madrid) and they didn't get rid of Tuchel due to results either, he was in an open conflict with Leonardo and doing it through the press, it was also known that he wasn't extending his contract which was supposed to end last summer.

 

[Ayoba]

They did not get of Ancelotti(he resigned to join Real Madrid) and they didn't get rid of Tuchel due to results either, he was in an open conflict with Leonardo and doing it through the press, it was also known that he wasn't extending his contract which was supposed to end last summer.

Lets see if they keep poch when he fails to win the CL.

 

[Mr Smith]

The way Ajax dismantled Dortmund, with an inferior team, surely rules out Rose? Especially if Ten Hag is available.

Rose is nothing special. The Dortmund job is the biggest he's had in his career and he's not exactly young.

I still think Poch and Ten Hag are the favourites, and I don't think Rangnick's involvement makes either of them less likely.

 

[JPRouve]

Rose is nothing special. The Dortmund job is the biggest he's had in his career and he's not exactly young.

I still think Poch and Ten Hag are the favourites, and I don't think Rangnick's involvement makes either of them less likely.

At 45 he is on the young side of management and Gladbach aren't a small club.

 

[Bubz27]

But that's how all PSG managers are judged. The very minimum expectation is to win the league they dominate in terms of money and players. So the only way to judge success is by how they do in the CL.

That's why I said they're not a serious club. I think it's entirely unreasonable for CL success to be the determining factor between flop and success. It's a very very hard competition to win.

Tuchel was at a much worse point this time last year, he isn't a bad manager. Ancelotti never got close, he isn't a bad manager.

People are digging out Pochettino, he's 12 points clear. Yes, that's what he should be in that league with that squad but he is doing what he should be doing. CL qualification from a tricky group, fairly easily it looks like, and storming the league with relative ease.

He's surely meeting expectations?

 

[Bubz27]

Not really comparable when Pep is going to leagues and developing teams which are dominating to levels said leagues have never seen before, whilst doing it in leagues that are far more competitive than the Ligue 1

I don't mean to compare Pep to Poch, Pep is obviously streets ahead. The point was demonstrating how hard the CL is to win, and therefore, how ridiculous it is to judge a manager based on if he wins it or not.

 

[JPRouve]

That's why I said they're not a serious club. I think it's entirely unreasonable for CL success to be the determining factor between flop and success. It's a very very hard competition to win.

Tuchel was at a much worse point this time last year, he isn't a bad manager. Ancelotti never got close, he isn't a bad manager.

People are digging out Pochettino, he's 12 points clear. Yes, that's what he should be in that league with that squad but he is doing what he should be doing. CL qualification from a tricky group, fairly easily it looks like, and storming the league with relative ease.

He's surely meeting expectations?

They don't judge managers on that, random people of the internet do it to have a dig at PSG but that's about it.

 

[Bubz27]

Not argument at all.

Take a look at the current PSG squad which includes a number of signings that made it even stronger during the summer and compare it to the other top 4 in France.

Pep is winning league titles that contains champions league contenders.

Poch is meeting expectations in the French league. He's 12 points clear after 16 games.

In Europe, he's done what he's supposed to have done thus far and qualified from a tricky group.

In any case, Tuchel proved even failing at PSG doesn't make you a bad manager.

 

[weetee]

Thing is they don't really play well, no? They had bad patches under Tuchel as well but at times played brilliantly (IMO) - as a team that is. Not watching nearly as many games as I did when Tuchel was there but they play extremely hit and miss when I'm watching them. Disjointed, at times like a headless chicken with the occasional moment of brilliance - which you'd expect with players like that tbh.

Not saying that this means Poch being a "bad" manager but eventually not a good fit. The rumors about him leaving (first Spurs, then Real Madrid, now United) don't necessarily mean a lot but you seldomly hear that kind of noise right after a big club got a new manager, at least not that I recall.

 

[JPRouve]

Poch is meeting expectations in the French league. He's 12 points clear after 16 games.

In Europe, he's done what he's supposed to have done thus far and qualified from a tricky group.

In any case, Tuchel proved even failing at PSG doesn't make you a bad manager.

Tuchel didn't fail at PSG.

 

[stu_1992]

His position is untenable. He’s a mediocre manager that will never win a trophy. I don’t want him anywhere near United.

I mean like this clearly over the top. Position untenable, they're way clear in the league. Hardly, and you never know what happens in the knockout stages of the champions league. I'm sure that's what the players want more than anything else.

Poch needs the PSG job to win his 1st career title and boost his confidence (PSG players obviously don't respect him) more than PSG needs Poch to win Ligue 1.

PSG can do it with Messi as player-manager, but given that Poch is a former PSG captain they should try to let him see out the season instead of firing Poch, he'll be demoralised after another trophyless stint.

While I think this is true, he does need it to fill out his CV a bit, He did already win his first trophy last year, the French Cup. Yes I know, hardly the mist impressive trophy but no matter what happens, it's incorrect to describe it as such. He's clearly winning the league this year too if he sees out the season.

 

[Bubz27]

Tuchel didn't fail at PSG.

I don't think he did, but if people are judging Poch to be failing in his situation while Tuchel was a success, I'm sensing hypocrisies.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't think he did, but if people are judging Poch to be failing in his situation while Tuchel was a success, I'm sensing hypocrisies.

Tuchel took a worse team, improved it, won everything and reached the CL final, Pochettino did none of these things. Also Pochettino isn't failing either, he is doing worse than Tuchel but he could improve things in the next months but if we are judging them today, Pochettino started with a far better team, far more balanced but has failed to make it play coherently after 11 months, people can draw the conclusion that they want but that's his reality.

It's senseless to talk about hypocrisy when you are not judging the same situations nor the same achievements, it would be quite something to put Pochettino and Tuchel on the same level at PSG.

 

[golden_blunder]

Rose is nothing special. The Dortmund job is the biggest he's had in his career and he's not exactly young.

I still think Poch and Ten Hag are the favourites, and I don't think Rangnick's involvement makes either of them less likely.

Guys this is a Poch performance thread let’s keep it on track. If you want to discuss RR there’s a thread for it

 

[golden_blunder]

Tuchel took a worse team, improved it, won everything and reached the CL final, Pochettino did none of these things. Also Pochettino isn't failing either, he is doing worse than Tuchel but he could improve things in the next months but if we are judging them today, Pochettino started with a far better team, far more balanced but has failed to make it play coherently after 11 months, people can draw the conclusion that they want but that's his reality.

It's senseless to talk about hypocrisy when you are not judging the same situations nor the same achievements, it would be quite something to put Pochettino and Tuchel on the same level at PSG.

I know who I’d put my money on

 

[Hammondo]

So everyone who has managed at PSG has been a failure ?

Probably. They have under-performed nearly every season.

 

[JPRouve]

Probably. They have under-performed nearly every season.

How?

 

[Bubz27]

Tuchel took a worse team, improved it, won everything and reached the CL final, Pochettino did none of these things. Also Pochettino isn't failing either, he is doing worse than Tuchel but he could improve things in the next months but if we are judging them today, Pochettino started with a far better team, far more balanced but has failed to make it play coherently after 11 months, people can draw the conclusion that they want but that's his reality.

It's senseless to talk about hypocrisy when you are not judging the same situations nor the same achievements, it would be quite something to put Pochettino and Tuchel on the same level at PSG.

I don't disagree with any of that but it's not really relevant to the original point I was making which was I think it's a bit ridiculous to say Poch is under pressure when he's 12 points clear and qualified from a tricky CL group.

 

[Hammondo]

How?

For the players they have, for the money they have spent, they have never match it with performances, they have never been that good.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't disagree with any of that but it's not really relevant to the original point I was making which was I think it's a bit ridiculous to say Poch is under pressure when he's 12 points clear and qualified from a tricky CL group.

And I didn't disagree with that point which is why I clearly stated that Pochettino wasn't failing. I simply stated that one of your argument was wrong and it's an argument that is used continuously for no good reason.

 

[cyberman]

I don't disagree with any of that but it's not really relevant to the original point I was making which was I think it's a bit ridiculous to say Poch is under pressure when he's 12 points clear and qualified from a tricky CL group.

It’s been an underwhelming CL campaign where the third threat fell apart and they aren’t playing the style of football that’s required when you’re PSG in France?
They’re winning games with random acts of individually quality which wasn’t good enough for Ole never mind the side who has. Neymar, Mbappe and Messi

 

[JPRouve]

For the players they have, for the money they have spent, they have never match it with performances, they have never been that good.

Again how? The only thing that PSG hasn't won is the CL and they have never had the best team in Europe, they have never been that close to it either, the closest was between 2013-2016 and the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid had much better teams, while the likes of Juventus, Chelsea, City, Bayern and Atletico had teams of similar level.

 

[Hammondo]

Again how? The only thing that PSG hasn't won is the CL and they have never had the best team in Europe, they have never been that close to it either, the closest was between 2013-2016 and the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid had much better teams, while the likes of Juventus, Chelsea, City, Bayern and Atletico had teams of similar level.

They rarely get close to challenge for the CL, and they should have had at least been close to the best team at some point.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

They rarely get close to challenge for the CL, and they should have had at least been close to the best team at some point.

They were in the final and SFs for the last 2 seasons.

 

[JPRouve]

They rarely get close to challenge for the CL, and they should have had at least been close to the best team at some point.

They reached the CL semi finals twice in the last years and during their best years, they mainly lost to the likes of City, Barcelona and Real Madrid which were clearly better sides with better more established players. It's a bit delusional to expect PSG or any team to somehow outperform better teams just because, there is no reason for them to be magically better than City, Barcelona or Real Madrid.

 

[romufc]

PSG's biggest problem is the French League.

They play a certain system which blows teams away or should in the French league but when they come against another top team, they struggle because they just do not have that experience.

City play Liverpool, Chelsea, United, Spurs and even to a certain extent Arsenal, Leicester and the like.
Bayern still have to play Dortmund, Leipzig

These teams challenge them in the league which sets them up for CL games, PSG don't have that.

So when they play in the later stages of the CL, they have to come up with a new style of play.

 

[JPRouve]

PSG's biggest problem is the French League.

They play a certain system which blows teams away or should in the French league but when they come against another top team, they struggle because they just do not have that experience.

City play Liverpool, Chelsea, United, Spurs and even to a certain extent Arsenal, Leicester and the like.
Bayern still have to play Dortmund, Leipzig

These teams challenge them in the league which sets them up for CL games, PSG don't have that.

So when they play in the later stages of the CL, they have to come up with a new style of play.

Or PSG mainly had inferior teams and inferior managers? Why do people go with the most convoluted arguments when there is an obvious one in front of them? You would think that the PL has routinely dominated the CL and that Bayern didn't won two CLs in the last decade while having no other top team in their league.

 

[Bubz27]

And I didn't disagree with that point which is why I clearly stated that Pochettino wasn't failing. I simply stated that one of your argument was wrong and it's an argument that is used continuously for no good reason.

I guess I didn't make I clear when I said it, but I don't think Tuchel failed. It was used facetiously.

 

[Bubz27]

It’s been an underwhelming CL campaign where the third threat fell apart and they aren’t playing the style of football that’s required when you’re PSG in France?
They’re winning games with random acts of individually quality which wasn’t good enough for Ole never mind the side who has. Neymar, Mbappe and Messi

That's something that can o ly be determined end of the season really, isn't it.
If the "random acts of individual quality" had Ole 12 points clear and progressing from his CL group, people would've thought it was enough.

 

[troylocker]

Poch is meeting expectations in the French league. He's 12 points clear after 16 games.

In Europe, he's done what he's supposed to have done thus far and qualified from a tricky group.

In any case, Tuchel proved even failing at PSG doesn't make you a bad manager.

There is at least a 100 managers out there that would comfortably win Ligue 1 with PSG, and it is mandatory to win that competition every year with the squad and resources they have. Anything else would be complete failure (like last season and the season Monaco won it)
PSG does not look like CL-winners under Poch, which is what he was hired to win.

Tuchel won every domestic competition in France in 2019/2020 and reached the CL final. The only thing he failed at was winning that CL final......... He fell out with Leandro and the owners though, and I suppose working with/under them limits your freedom and makes managing PSG frustrating at times (That goes for Poch too).

 

[romufc]

Or PSG mainly had inferior teams and inferior managers? Why do people go with the most convoluted arguments when there is an obvious one in front of them? You would think that the PL has routinely dominated the CL and that Bayern didn't won two CLs in the last decade while having no other top team in their league.

Yep, because Bayern play in the PL? I mentioned Bayern having to play other teams that could give them a game.

Dortmund and Leipzig are better at giving Bayern a game than any of the French teams.

Why do PSG fans act as if they don't have some quality players in Mbappe, Neymar, Di Maria, Kimpembe, Marquinhos. So they had inferior managers in Tuchel? he left PSG and won the CL with them.

 

[JPRouve]

Yep, because Bayern play in the PL? I mentioned Bayern having to play other teams that could give them a game.

Dortmund and Leipzig are better at giving Bayern a game than any of the French teams.

Why do PSG fans act as if they don't have some quality players in Mbappe, Neymar, Di Maria, Kimpembe, Marquinhos. So they had inferior managers in Tuchel? he left PSG and won the CL with them.

In what world does Leipzig have had on paper better teams than Lyon or Monaco in the last decade? Based on what some of you say, you would think that Ligue 1 is bereft of talent.

And PSG have quality players but it doesn't mean that they have the best team in Europe and should automatically win the CL, they never had the best team in Europe. And if you want to mention Neymar he has missed a lot of KO stages due to injuries. And Tuchel reached the final didn't he, how does that fit with your argument about their results being due to Ligue 1?

 

[romufc]

In what world does Leipzig have had on paper better teams than Lyon or Monaco in the last decade? Based on what some of you say, you would think that Ligue 1 is bereft of talent.

And PSG have quality players but it doesn't mean that they have the best team in Europe and should automatically win the CL, they never had the best team in Europe. And if you want to mention Neymar he has missed a lot of KO stages due to injuries. And Tuchel reached the final didn't he, how does that fit with your argument about their results being due to Ligue 1?

You're just proving my point, Leipzig may not have a better team but they got to the semi too. It just goes to prove you don't have to have the best team.

No one has ever said that a team should automatically win the CL, also you don't need the best team in Europe to win the CL.

Oh here we go, injuries, well lets talk about the route to the final in that season, single leg ties, playing teams that haven't got the same quality. As soon as they came across a team to match their talent they lost the game.

So how does Tuchel winning it fit your argument of having inferior managers?

Chelsea didn't have the best team in Europe, yet they won it.

 

[troylocker]

I don't mean to compare Pep to Poch, Pep is obviously streets ahead. The point was demonstrating how hard the CL is to win, and therefore, how ridiculous it is to judge a manager based on if he wins it or not.

Would you say that is more difficult to win the CL with PSG than it would be to win the PL with Man United (competing over 38 matches with 3 of the current top 5 clubs in the world, Liverpool, City and Chelsea)?
Do you think Poch has done better or worse than what should be expected for an absolute elite manager at PSG?
Where should we set the bar for our next manager?

PSG's ambition is to win the CL, it has been clear for some years that winning the CL is their main target and project. The managers will be heaviliy judged on their CL-campains while it is also expected that they walk all domestic competitions.......
I think it is obvious that Poch is too light weight for the job at Old Trafford. Everything he's done the last 2 and a half years tells the story of a manager struggeling to reach that top tier, how he lost Spurs and how he has not elevated PSG or had any visible positive impact on their play (at least not from what I've seen from their displays in Europe).
Their point tally and 12 point lead in Ligue 1 is also a bit misleading and they have been less dominant than the table indicates based on their play so far this season, if you put any trust in analysing tools like xG and xP that is. According to understat.com they have overperformed their expected points won with 8 points so far this season based on chances created and chances conceded so far. Their strongest opponent (Lille) has underperformed by 9 points based on the same criterias.... (Chelsea would be 3rd, 4 points behind Liverpool and City in the PL by the same criterias, and we would be 14th....)

 

[JPRouve]

You're just proving my point, Leipzig may not have a better team but they got to the semi too. It just goes to prove you don't have to have the best team.

No one has ever said that a team should automatically win the CL, also you don't need the best team in Europe to win the CL.

Oh here we go, injuries, well lets talk about the route to the final in that season, single leg ties, playing teams that haven't got the same quality. As soon as they came across a team to match their talent they lost the game.

So how does Tuchel winning it fit your argument of having inferior managers?

Chelsea didn't have the best team in Europe, yet they won it.

That's not a point to make though, it's not as if it was a regular result for Leipzig, similarly I wouldn't use Lyon semifinal as an argument for anything. Tuchel went to the CL final with PSG, he is a quality manager and showed it with both PSG and Chelsea in consecutive seasons, surely you can put these two things together and understand the "narrative"?

Also did you use Leipzig semifinal as an argument in favor of the Bundesliga while using that same season format against PSG?

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Even if Poch wins the CL with PSG, the same culprits will be screaming, “Anyone can win the CL with a billion euros!”

 

[troylocker]

That's something that can o ly be determined end of the season really, isn't it.
If the "random acts of individual quality" had Ole 12 points clear and progressing from his CL group, people would've thought it was enough.

Ole probably would with PSG though, like most managers with experience from a top 5 league.

 

[troylocker]

Even if Poch wins the CL with PSG, the same culprits will be screaming, “Anyone can win the CL with a billion euros!”

No, they wouldn't!
He would have proven the nay-sayers wrong. I'm willing to put money on Poch not to win the CL with PSG though.... he's doesn't seem to be a good enough manager to pull it off.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

No, they wouldn't!
He would have proven the nay-sayers wrong. I'm willing to put money on Poch not to win the CL with PSG though.... he's doesn't seem to be a good enough manager to pull it off.

We have seen that with other managers. The nay-sayers will shift goal posts; people get intransigent when they're proved wrong.

 

[JPRouve]

We have seen that with other managers. The nay-sayers will shift goal posts; people get intransigent when they're proved wrong.

What are the goal posts at the moment? For me no manager, let alone a good manager should be considered as not able to ever win a title once, you just have to look at Di Matteo. The question is whether a particular manager gives you a distinct advantage compared to close or similar managers and I think that it's fair to say that Pochettino hasn't shown that he is that type of manager and one isolated win won't change that, not when he only has one positive European campaign with Tottenham. Logically, he will have to do it over several seasons to erase his past?