Regarding the role of Boniek, 3 players were on my short-list: one of them was Ronaldinho.
Remake Draft R16| Downcast vs Sjor Bepo
- Thread starter Joga Bonito
- Start date
I'm surprised by your suggestion. No doubts that Rooney could be used as a 'wing forward' but I was looking for a Free-Role Side-Attacker!
A Free-Role Attacker is an Attacking Midfielder who operates the game in the edge of the field a lot more often than central area while a Wing-Forwarder is a player between winger and forward in 4-3-3 system ( but they must be greater as winger than central forward).
Boniek was a wonderful right-winger with Poland during the WC 1982 and so joined Juventus just after the WC.
The explosiveness of Kaka compensates the lack of pace of Riquelme = a Boniek less explosive than Kaka + Platini more pacy than Riquelme.
I will introduce some gifs showing why Rooney is not the best option imho.
its interesting to see what will the draft masters have to say on this, maybe they already covered but i just forgot.....
What is better, to have 2 "poor" or better say different "replicas" but that will give you the correct end product or to have one great "replica" and one "poor" which would result with a lesser end product then in the first version.
Below some screenshots to illustrate the mobility of Boniek during the European Cup Final against Hambourg.
Boniek was also known for his excellent organizational skills... like Kaka imho
Boniek was also known for his excellent organizational skills... like Kaka imho
Last edited:
From whatever I have seen of Boniek, I highly doubt this statement. Boniek was at least as explosive (which means pace and acceleration right ?) if not more than Kaka.
I like both efforts very much here.
Downcast's back 2, midfield foundation and Kuyt are all brilliant choices.
Sheva, Kaka and Riquelme is a nice attempt of recreating Juve's front three. While some of them are impossible to replicate (Platini's most closest modern comparison would be... Totti, again? How many roles can he fecking cover here
), Sheva's additional goalthreat compensate for Riquelme's lack of it and Kaka shares some traits with Boniek - fast, clinical, devastating dribbler - although him and Riquelme lack off-the ball movement and qualities of their counterparts.
Going by Edgar's proposal, 8/10 (not that it counts though, I will decide later if I ever will)
Sjor created a great replica too, my only slight criticism is the suitability of his central defenders. I don't find them very similar to their counterparts and I don't think they'll compliment each other well. Gündogan is a great pick (it's a shame that he'll play for City in the next season
) and the explanatory post is top-notch. Ribery is an interesting choice and he'll do well in that role I reckon
7,5/10 or so
I very slightly prefer Downcast's team but it's too close to decide at 3 a.m.
Downcast's back 2, midfield foundation and Kuyt are all brilliant choices.
Sheva, Kaka and Riquelme is a nice attempt of recreating Juve's front three. While some of them are impossible to replicate (Platini's most closest modern comparison would be... Totti, again? How many roles can he fecking cover here
), Sheva's additional goalthreat compensate for Riquelme's lack of it and Kaka shares some traits with Boniek - fast, clinical, devastating dribbler - although him and Riquelme lack off-the ball movement and qualities of their counterparts.Going by Edgar's proposal, 8/10 (not that it counts though, I will decide later if I ever will)
Sjor created a great replica too, my only slight criticism is the suitability of his central defenders. I don't find them very similar to their counterparts and I don't think they'll compliment each other well. Gündogan is a great pick (it's a shame that he'll play for City in the next season
) and the explanatory post is top-notch. Ribery is an interesting choice and he'll do well in that role I reckon7,5/10 or so
I very slightly prefer Downcast's team but it's too close to decide at 3 a.m.
Second this. Don't think that there was much between them in terms of pace/acceleration, both were absolutely rapid
Like I said it's subjective and I can see where you are coming from. I just think Rooney fulfils Boniek's role off the ball better than Kaka, whilst you could say the Brazilian is a better remake on the ball, albeit in a different style. Without discounting Boneik's quality on the ball, his role off the ball was really crucial for the system and went a long way towards creating his magical partnership with Platini imo - constantly making those penetrating runs, probing throughout the defense and being a pesky nuisance off it. Kaka is no slouch nor a lethargic presence off the ball during possession but he just doesn't have that same dynamism or range of movement imo. A great counter-attacking weapon though with his blistering pace which was definitely one of the key facets of Boniek. Once again I don't claim Rooney is a great remake of Boniek as such, but I somehow feel it would be a slightly and relatively better remake than Kaka. I'm willing to concede that it's a contentious point and is extremely subjective, so could very well be in the wrong here.
Last edited:
@Joga Bonito
All the opinions are the welcome: this is the essence of the draft. My opinion is also subjective so I could be wrong. Sure, every choice is open to debates.
The case of Kaka is necessarily more subject to debates & discussions because he is mostly known for being a central 'attacking midfielder'. So, here this is a 'projection'.
To illustrate my points:
Champions league final 2005
All the opinions are the welcome: this is the essence of the draft. My opinion is also subjective so I could be wrong. Sure, every choice is open to debates.
The case of Kaka is necessarily more subject to debates & discussions because he is mostly known for being a central 'attacking midfielder'. So, here this is a 'projection'.
To illustrate my points:
Champions league final 2005
Champions league final 2007
Fifa confederations final 2009
Brazil 2006
Last edited:
Sure, Kaka & Boniek haven't the same dynamism or range of movement.
Lucio(my worst pick) is questionable for me too, i was fecked the minute Javi Martinez was picked because he is the only one that i can think of for that role. Man marking as such died a long time ago, for defenders at least.
For the other 2 i think they are a pretty solid match tbh, Marquez like Auge played both in DM and as a SW, had very good reading and was class on the ball.
Boateng strong physical presence at the back, one of the rare modern defender that can actually defend and he is fantastic on the ball as well. Would he be able to man mark like Kohler, dont know as i dont think he ever tried to play like that.
Yes, the Buchwald role is no doubt tricky.
You mention Martinez, but in my opinion your best option there would've been someone fairly low-profile: A non-descript but competent CB or DM capable of executing a pure marking job. The latter is the stand-out part when it comes to Buchwald '90: Tactically, it's what matters most - replicating his other traits as a player isn't that important.
You mention Martinez, but in my opinion your best option there would've been someone fairly low-profile: A non-descript but competent CB or DM capable of executing a pure marking job. The latter is the stand-out part when it comes to Buchwald '90: Tactically, it's what matters most - replicating his other traits as a player isn't that important.
Martinez played for Bielsa in man marking defence, other then that i only had fecking Jones on my shortlist and its probably a mistake that i didnt went with him, he did a fair share of man marking jobs under Fergie(Fella, Ronaldo, Bale).
Great point. Jones would have been the perfect choice even if Martinez is a good one himself too.
Yes, Jones would have been a decent choice - albeit perhaps a bit hard to sell given his recent form.
I was thinking - vaguely - about, I don't know...one of the Greek boys of Euro 2004 infamy, perhaps.
Or someone like, say, Nigel De Jong, if you go with a DM rather than a pure defender.
I was thinking - vaguely - about, I don't know...one of the Greek boys of Euro 2004 infamy, perhaps.
Or someone like, say, Nigel De Jong, if you go with a DM rather than a pure defender.
Like an empty bottle! That's what you are!
congrats on the win @Downcast
A lovely remake of Zona Mista, other then Riquelme who i think is an awful pick you got it spot on with almost every other pick.
A lovely remake of Zona Mista, other then Riquelme who i think is an awful pick you got it spot on with almost every other pick.
Thank you @Šjor Bepo
You have made an excellent work with a team hard to recreate.
- Forlan/Suarez a lovely pairing, proven partnership in a 3-5-2 system
- Ribéry was the best option for Littbarski
- Matthaus an impossible task because he was an exceptional box-to-box both offensively and defensively
The German teams are the hardest teams to replicate
This game should have deserved more comments & votes
You have made an excellent work with a team hard to recreate.
- Forlan/Suarez a lovely pairing, proven partnership in a 3-5-2 system
- Ribéry was the best option for Littbarski
- Matthaus an impossible task because he was an exceptional box-to-box both offensively and defensively
The German teams are the hardest teams to replicate
This game should have deserved more comments & votes
The Stadio delle Alpi was rather empty so I thank my voters @VivaJanuzaj @paulscholes18 @Kazi @harms @BBRBB @DavidG
I can see what Sjor is saying and also have concerns with Riquelme as a replacement for Platini.
I think Riquelme was fantastic and certainly has the technique/passing quality of Platini but beyond that I dont think there are many similarities, particularly in terms of physical and mental attributes. Riquelme had none of the industry that Platini possessed and lacked anything like the same mobility in terms of getting up and down the pitch, which isnt to say that Platini was a massive workhorse or anything, but Riquelme was always fairly static.
In terms of tempo Riquelme often tended to dwell on the ball and generally slowed things down - probably more than any other playmaker of that era, bar maybe Pirlo. After receiving a pass he would often take five or six touches, dribbling and turning in different directions before releasing the pass whereas Platini was much more decisive.
I thought Riquelme played a great tournament in 2006 besides the Germany match, but beyond that I dont remember him having real consistency which was always my biggest gripe with him at the time.
I would have personally played Xavi even though positionally his career was slightly different, as I think his physical/mental qualities are more similar to Platini and I could imagine him playing that type of role given his skill set. I dont think Xavi would ever match Platini's goalscoring though as he never had a real goalscoring instinct or natural movement in the box, but around 2007-2009 he would often break forward in a similar (but lesser) way to Platini.
I think Riquelme was fantastic and certainly has the technique/passing quality of Platini but beyond that I dont think there are many similarities, particularly in terms of physical and mental attributes. Riquelme had none of the industry that Platini possessed and lacked anything like the same mobility in terms of getting up and down the pitch, which isnt to say that Platini was a massive workhorse or anything, but Riquelme was always fairly static.
In terms of tempo Riquelme often tended to dwell on the ball and generally slowed things down - probably more than any other playmaker of that era, bar maybe Pirlo. After receiving a pass he would often take five or six touches, dribbling and turning in different directions before releasing the pass whereas Platini was much more decisive.
I thought Riquelme played a great tournament in 2006 besides the Germany match, but beyond that I dont remember him having real consistency which was always my biggest gripe with him at the time.
I would have personally played Xavi even though positionally his career was slightly different, as I think his physical/mental qualities are more similar to Platini and I could imagine him playing that type of role given his skill set. I dont think Xavi would ever match Platini's goalscoring though as he never had a real goalscoring instinct or natural movement in the box, but around 2007-2009 he would often break forward in a similar (but lesser) way to Platini.
He's also got the experience of operating as a more conventional no 10 for Spain. While he didn't perform to his sky-high ceiling, he still did well and stylistically is a better fit.
Tricky one though Mr Platini it has to be said.
Thanks for your comments.
Hopefully, there is the room to improve the squadra.
In a pure fantasy draft, Xavi would have been easily part of the starting 11 and I need to rewatch him, Platini and another player
Hopefully, there is the room to improve the squadra.
In a pure fantasy draft, Xavi would have been easily part of the starting 11 and I need to rewatch him, Platini and another player