Remake Draft R16 | Gio vs EAP

Please vote for the better remake of the classical set-up


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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Not yet convinced on Cesc tho...
It's a very unique positional role that Laudrup played. Let's summarize Laudrup's qualities in that role...
1. A left sided AM with play making responsibilities.
2. Who can operates deeper (nearly in a midfield 3) covering when Juan Carlos moves up...
3. But still slotted as a False 9 in a starting line up...
4. Must be a very less individualistic team player (Cruyff mention he does not want "i can do this on my own" players specifically in interviews).

I do not see any player apart from Fabregas and Valdivia ticking all 4 boxes. Yes, there is a drop in quality...but they still tick all 4 boxes!!!

Iniesta has not operated as a False 9
Silva is a good shout, but Fabregas was better in deeper areas.
Ronaldinho is far too individualistic and would change the dynamic greatly.
Zlatan can can make some plays, but does not tick any of the other boxes.
Lavezzi and Cavani...I'd discount as they are not as influential overall, esp in the midfield.

It certainly is a compromise, but there are not many other options out there that may you say "Oh, x would have been brilliant here". With Totti not available to me at all, Fab is by far the best overall fit...again despite the drop in quality!
 

Gio

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Lahm on for Buzansky is a bit odd decision for me. I don't think they are much alike at all. Buzansky also supported the attack a lot with darting runs, I don't think Lahm is that of a player at all. I wouldn't put Silva in for that CB position as well, I feel Gio has gone a bit backwards with the reinforcements.

Edgar I fell has done excellently with Neymar. Although a lot different to Stoichkov he's a great fit for the role and position. Not yet convinced on Cesc tho...
You'll have to expand on why Ivanovic is a better fit than Lahm for Buzanszky because it seems well wide of the mark to me. The only advantage he has is that he's a proven combative centre-half - but he's not actually hugely close to Buzanszky in style.

Lahm is a better overlapper, infinitely better on the ball, more intelligent, more mobile, closer in build to Buzanszsky. A huge thing for Hungary was the combinations between the right-half Bozsik with Buzanzsky building forward from right-back. They were a possession-dominating team. Lahm is a great fit for them.
 

Gio

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Precisely my thoughts. I haven't gotten around to Lahm (bloody meetings at work) but it certainly is an odd fit considering Boateng was available who I consider a better fit for that role. It was a old style fullback role or more like an attacking side back. I personally do not think Lahm is a good enough centre back to fit in a side back role.
Again that's not how Hungary operated. They didn't play a typical back three with two centre-halves and a sweeper. Buzanszky was not a typical centre-half, he was more of a full-back who overlapped but was defensively solid. Ivanovic was a nice fit for the first round because he fitted a back three with the constraints of the pool, but Lahm is a far truer representation of Buzanszky.
 

Enigma_87

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You'll have to expand on why Ivanovic is a better fit than Lahm for Buzanszky because it seems well wide of the mark to me. The only advantage he has is that he's a proven combative centre-half - but he's not actually hugely close to Buzanszky in style.

Lahm is a better overlapper, infinitely better on the ball, more intelligent, more mobile, closer in build to Buzanszsky. A huge thing for Hungary was the combinations between the right-half Bozsik with Buzanzsky building forward from right-back. They were a possession-dominating team. Lahm is a great fit for them.
Correct me if I'm wrong but when Hungary attacked Buzansky was high up. Zakarias dropped back to play as an aggressive stopper while both Hungarian full backs pushed forward. A Dani Alves type IMO is much more apt than Lahm in terms of style and how the Hungarians played.

Couple of highlights:

 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Buzanszky was not a typical centre-half, he was more of a full-back who overlapped but was defensively solid. Ivanovic was a nice fit for the first round because he fitted a back three with the constraints of the pool, but Lahm is a far truer representation of Buzanszky.
mmm, partly agree. I still think that role needs a bit of centre back capable player because there's a bit of tucked in defending through the middle involved. Ivanovic was OK because he was versatile at both and attacking in nature. Lahm is a better player...but not necessarily a better fit in that role. Ramos maybe?
 

Joga Bonito

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Correct me if I'm wrong but when Hungary attacked Buzansky was high up. Zakarias dropped back to play as an aggressive stopper while both Hungarian full backs pushed forward. A Dani Alves type IMO is much more apt than Lahm in terms of style and how the Hungarians played.
mmm, partly agree. I still think that role needs a bit of centre back capable player because there's a bit of tucked in defending through the middle involved. Ivanovic was OK because he was versatile at both and attacking in nature. Lahm is a better player...but not necessarily a better fit in that role. Ramos maybe?

I'd say Buzansky did have freedom to push up when Hungary had the ball but I'd primarily class him as a RCB/RB when Hungary were out of possession. Not so much a conventional CB imo. Lahm seems a perfect fit for that role than someone less defensively astute in Dani Alves or a more gung-ho overlapper. Buzansky was also a fairly tidy player on the ball and was arguably the best ball playing defender at the back for Hungary and Lahm brings just that to the table with this quality on the ball imo.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Yeah, from what I've seen Buzansky seemed relatively more cultured on the ball.
They had a very attacking setup and were not really solid defensively. Even during this thread, I had him as a RCB/RB type, but now after reading more, he comes across as a solid modern fullback. Good tackler, disciplined and very attacking in nature with runs up the flank. But similar to fullbacks he comes across as not one to provide much support centrally, where only Lorent with part-time help from Zakarias held fort. If the ball is from opponents Outside Left then he's in the picture...but a counter through the middle and he'd not be in the picture. I'm kinda getting a picture closer to what @Enigma_87 had in Dani Alves. Decent defender and good in a uber-attacking set up.

Not really sure on how much to trust this site, but it has some interesting data: https://fotballdykket.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/ungarn-na-og-da/
 
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Jozsef Bozsik: the Conductor Par Excellance


The legendary József Bozsik - Hungary's all-time international player with 101 appearances, the greatest center-half in the world who was the metronome from 1947 to 1962.

Through a longtime player of impactful tenure the team achieved a state of great flow. Plumb in the middle of the field there was a player who put attack and defense into communicable order for a workable unity and whose potent reputation traveled wide. Of all the prominent players between 1947 and 1962, the great wing-half Jozsef Bozsik was driven by the most sophisticated awareness that contrived the balance which had produced the seeds of majesty in the Puskas and Kocsis touch. József Bozsik's prime and lasting aim was always being the mediating intercessor and magnificent technician in the inner-workings of the Hungarian team who liked both to defend and attack, who on one or two occasions threw himself into scoring situations with feeling to bring about goals from deep. His eyes attuned to nuance as the innate navigator who crafted matches' thorough answers, Jozsef Bozsik's thoughtful and technical ball placement was unimpeachable from his earliest youth days when he played alongside Puskás at Honvéd since 1943. Jozsef Bozsik is the center through which unnumbered lines of connection pass because his real effort is one of throwing midfield into shape and order with inexhaustible energies.


From the tender age of five or six from the days when they were literal next door neighbors in an apartment flat that overlooked the local football park for Kispest, Puskás and Jozsef Bozsik — the middle son of five boys — had been inseparable best friends as the game's allure spoke over their lives and early on developed a signaling system of wall knocks to indicate 'How about a soccer game?' Brought up with the roar of the Kispest crowd in his ears, both had risen through the youth, junior and senior levels at the local football club, Kispest, almost simultaneously and graduated to the varsity national team just a year and a half apart in 1945 and 1947 respectively. With Puskás at Honvéd (The Army sponsored 'Homeland Defenders'), there he joins men on a star-spangled team with Sándor Kocsis, keeper Grosics, defender Gyula Lóránt and wingers László Budai and Czibor already involved, and showed players manifesting greatness and speeded their stride to set up Honvéd as the world's best club side and on another level make Hungary the rainmaking footballing Avalon of a good part of the 1950s — which rejoiced in setting up a garden of explosively uniting paths that most everyone saw reaching a climax in the 1954 World Cup Final.


Joszef Bozsik singing autographs on the return trip from the 'Match of the Century'.


Bozsik's soulful studied play and often loud intensity was known more for a focused glowering intelligent playmaking than scoring goals that telepathically came into Puskas' game with an emphatic closeness since their first youth games almost twenty years before amid more hardscrabble times of the inter-war period. Puskas himself, who had played with and against the very elites of the game, described Jozsef Bozsik as "the greatest player I ever saw or knew", and Bozsik later became the most durably featured bona fide ironman and tailoring choreographer in Hungary's footballing history, going onto to captain Hungary after Puskas' departure up until 1962 with 101 made appearances, the country's most ever. Bozsik had been the authentic penetrating power who mentally tests out all possible versions in peppering the ball impeccably up and down the field and sweepingly side to side who was a major thread in the bright weave of the team whose reading of the game was at its highest level.


In leading Hungary to three World Cups in 1954, 1958, 1962, Jozsef Bozsik sifted, coordinated, and battens the squad by projecting numberless completions through defenses with scrupulous attention to detail and performed an enormous labor in helping compose sixty-seven victories in his career. Midfield's compass showing no slackening of vigor, Bozsik sedulously strikes out new paths in explaining matches penetratingly. He is the great equalizer of his age and land supplying what wants supplying and checks what wants checking, he is a seer, attack and defense corroborate themselves to him. People expect of Bozsik to indicate the path as an edifice in midfield to put a solid address on the match who perceives the beauty of the game well enough; and for fifteen years in his country's service Jozsef Bozsik was a veritable anthem for Hungarian football with a picture emerging of an "officer and gentleman" incredibly crowned.


With perhaps some seeing less than there was to Jozsef Bozsik since his playing on an team behind the Iron Curtain and on the cusp of the viability of television as one of the most underrated special players ever at the peak of his virtuous creative powers, the radius of influence of the great Jozsef Bozsik was very large on results and retired with lasting elegance as a truly charmed soul whose esteem remains robust.
==
 

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The Fabulous Three,Best Forward Line in International Football History: Puskas-Kocsis-Hidegkuti


Three icons of the game: Bela Guttman, Sandor Kocsis, Puskas. Legendary Hungarian manager Bela Guttmann is perhaps best remembered as a coach and manager of some the world's leading football teams, including Honved/Kispest, AC Milan, São Paulo, Porto, Benfica and C.A. Peñarol. His greatest success came with Benfica when he guided them to two successive European Champions Cup wins in 1961 and in 1962. He laid the fundamental tenets of the Hungarian 4-2-4 formation in Brazil starting in 1957, that led Brazil to World Cup triumphs in 1958 and 1970. He managed Ferenc Puskas at Kispest in 1948 and Eusebio in Benefica from 1959-1962.


The world will often afford examples of men, who, worthy of veneration and renown, have burst the shackles of mediocrity with a trailing cloud of glory to stand in the world a new order of men; men of the very right stuff promising transcendent moments cheerfully on the make to re-invent their own field of expertise about whom fantasies are conceived.


There is no team that has yielded more and greater patterns of goal-making than Puskas, Kocsis and Hidegkuti, the three pushed their goings earnestly at the head of a astonishingly free, sundry command of attack that was beyond question the greatest goal reckoning side in the history of international football. This is the team which, above all others, had seized the affections of the footballing world in 1952, 1953, 1954 and 1956. They were great moments for Puskas, who offered an abundance of guidance to manage an awesomely prodigal line consisting of strength and powerful plays to clear broad scorelines: stepping out as strong global players with an unerring grasp of football that conquered from the late 1940s to the outbreak of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956.


The collectivist system did much to stamp Gustav Sebes' idea of his team being a design center for a harmonious band of supremely talented footballers. Up front, by braiding together two such devout talents in Puskás and Kocsis, his ultimate meritocrats, whose power lay in swaying the balance of the game in their favor, they became the greatest and redoubtable strike partners of them all whose landmark volume of 158 goals in the international record books put beyond question the position of Puskas and Kocsis as among the consummate craftsmen of the ages. Their momentous, joint and colossal order of 158 goals, a gulf between them and successive tandems gapes so hugely that unlike anything that went before or has come after it would prove everlasting. Theirs was a story of two invincible heroes drawn from the middle and lower classes in their prime who always seemed to tackle the big game, and plunged into it with zeal and stamina to mine the fantastic goal, the team maneuvered through two great personal sagas, one emanating from Puskas and the other from Sandor Kocsis.


The abundant days of Puskas and Kocsis during this period foretold future promise alternating between suggestions of specialness and unique dominance, and were internationally known as uncompromising players of the modern age on a team in which all function precisely as it should. There were few places better to visit than Budapest's Nepstadion (Nation's Stadium) where audiences readily responded to the greatest in things at the national team and compel us to enjoy the pleasure of being brought to such new football perspective where everything seemed true, gilding dull days with a hearty sense of earthly joys and exciting marvels. The national team, pushed forward by their example and aided by other accomplished players, was seen to move toward a enterprise of a powerfully imposing quality that lost one game over the course of six years and became an all-encompassing vault of vision and athletic mastery between these two great amasser of goals. The entire artistry of Kocsis and the ponderous broadsides and daring speculations of Puskas were inseparable from one another at Honved and at the national level, each with striking qualities of determination and skill, with both finding their identity and fame in the monuments of a very respected history.


These two men, Puskas and Kocsis, two Midas-type players, amid bright walks of rare imagination, are ever endeavoring to go beyond their predecessors, capable of putting forth unprecedented offense that sinks the great teams, firing mad enthusiasms in capacity crowds, they are making their way upward through football's hierarchy and treading in the steps to the sole fountain of football immortality where awe alone prevails. Great as Puskas and Kocsis are said to be, the national side was far better than it was often assumed because the team, like anything great and elaborate, had an extra content that added considerable starch to better seize every mode of play in advance of their competitors—a remarkable motion man who makes a lot of difference, Nandor Hidegkuti, who helped the team to fame.




Intensively practiced and lighted from within by a common sociability as a team, here Nandor Hidegkuti produces a deft sleight of feet stop-ball maneuver that evades and gets by his marker on a practice field.



In particular at the national level, the greatest contribution of the Golden Team had been their campaigning of a prototype player that would lead the path to a tactical furthering— the playmaking deep-lying center-forward. In the midst of this highly versatile and amazingly powerful model, Sebes unveiled quietly a high value surreptitious centerpiece player that was of such sovereign use for great and far-reaching ends. Of a different mold but similarly influential, Sebes introduces a sharp-witted Nandor Hidegkuti as a deep-lying free trading player behind the inside pairing of Puskás and Kocsis. This something subtle and profound nuance of moving Hidegkuti off the main line put the game on a new course and later into football's lexicon entered the fluid station called ' playmaker ' — akin to a browsing, parsing and personally scoring player who directionalizes flows down field resembling a quarterback in American football. The unease that his created within opposing lines left them disjointed by drawing a natural tendency from defenses to leave him unmarked and operate freely in space un-buffeted by not being truly an advanced player. With event-driven spontaneity, Hidegkuti provided crashing sorties as ball movement dictated to crumble the center goal area and unlocked in the No. 9 position a new autonomous menacing robust character in football operating on the event horizon between midfield and the opposing rearguards and between creator and goalscorer. In Hidegkuti were equally blended the instincts of a roving spirit and disposition of a striker and an attacking midfielder who had many moments of being a rather remarkable player and has, with good reason, been called the ‘father of Total Football’. Hidegkuti was a solid compelling figure, the type at his best, who was content from a vantage point above the line to hover and put in browsing expeditions to score goals, and since he was an astute navigator he frequently could (with 39 goals in 69 appearances). With this partnership of Puskás and Kocsis up front and a self-directing third arrow unpinioned in Hidegkuti the team had now become inestimably enhanced to cannily supply large rhythms of attack that sprang the deep bases of granite-like defenses in front of ever larger number of followers.


What wonderful productions of wit, equal verve and profusion of sportive sallies that makes approaches to footballing perfection was Puskas, Kocsis and Hidegkuti involved on? There was, perhaps, no team, however hardened by deep skill and long training, that was better. As players, they continued to meet the one decisive criterion for greatness, that is prevailing even against the most mountainous competition, battling the era's greatest combination talent to triumph: in classic confrontations against the world's elite (World's Top #12-ranked) they managed to beat fourteen teams, while drawing three times and lost but once. The rolling offense, a spectacular merger of the three men, that lambent sweet rhyme, that repertoire, seeing their designs with glorious courage lead the charge into "modern football" was such an accumulation of deeds that the footballing world marveled at their prodigious stream of works. Exploded scorelines were part of their real routine, and they won domination over half of their matches (32 out of 60 games from May 1950 to February 1956 ) by a three goal difference or more. Such is often the end of games that Puskas, Kocsis, and Hidegkuti played in, the Magical Magyars were sown thick with unquestionable proofs—the three players by October, 1956 stood at the head of their profession with 194 goals between them. By June 1954, it simply appeared that no one could deny them their special destiny.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Looks accurate from what I've read about them too.

I still don't think Thiago is a good fit for Lorant. He was a defensive sweeper being replaced with a offensive ball playing defender.

Other player I did raise in earlier match was Valencia. Budai was a typical outside right of that era with added defensive duties. There are articles which portray him as a brilliant dribbler too. Valencia is not a dribbler and is very unidimensional to fit into a flexible team as this.
 

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The Cavalier from El Dorado, goalscoring extraordinaire Sándor Kocsis (nicknamed 'The Cube' or 'Golden Head'), was arguably the world's purest goalscorer in the international game - being the 3rd most prolific striker of the century (75 goals in 66 appearances), who carried his team over many good sides in his 66 game international career. He was the star catalyst of the great Ferencvaros side of 1949 that won the national title that year. In 1952, 1954, and 1955, Kocsis was again Hungarian national champion with Honved-Kispest. In 1959, 1960 was Spanish national champion with Barcelona FC, and won the Spanish Copa del Rey in 1959 and 1963. Kocsis' Barcelona side won the Inter-Cities Fair Cup in 1960. In the 1961 European Cup Final against Benefica, Sandor Kocsis and Zoltan Czibor both scored in the heartbreaking 2-3 loss in the Wankdorf stadium in Berne.

Sandor Kocsis: 'The Natural'






Sandor Kocsis was the nearest thing to the 'natural striker' for whom formalists had been searching for ever since the early twentieth century who built a reputation as a world leading scorer of a particular kind, and became a master worthy, too, to stand beside his greatest contemporaries with the other recognized gods of the game.

Only one other talent of his day can be compared with Puskas and Pele in the world game, that of Sandor Kocsis, and no one of his time had so lively a footballing artistry as Kocsis. The rapidity and sureness of Kocsis' development has had no match whose career was made up of brilliant sections of football, and like his achievements were unique in history. Sandor Kocsis was for his own time a player of entire quality and unparalleled efficiency who has had few peers. Sandor Kocsis remains one of football's giant figures most important first of all because he was a great player and because he, along with Puskas, announced and instructed a new age at the historical moment for the rise of new tactics and football's re-invention. Like Puskas, he would lead a double career, and the pattern of the life of Kocsis for many years was the pattern of Puskas' own. Kocsis showed simply a luminous gift for scoring as did Puskas, but Kocsis played more successfully than anyone has ever seen. So potent, in fact, was Kocsis at his best that the twentieth century is prone to regard Sandor Kocsis as the most victory-anointed international player of the last hundred years for adventuresome scorers who upcast their teams with at least 35 goals.

he inheritor of roughly half the supplied assists, Kocsis spent his next years in an ideal location at Honved for such influences to mold his life and his game and provoked Kocsis to adopt the critical weapons Puskas didn't have, a right footed shot and his head. There too Sandor Kocsis sustained and deepened his varied output and found his way into it frequently scoring 153 goals in 145 games and came second in time but first in importance behind that relentlessly productive master Puskas in league matches which tended to end in winning pleasure.

The prodigal Apolloan goalscorer, Sándor Kocsis, a celebrant of the 1954 World Cup who averaged a record 2.2 goals-per-game.
As an authority in size and pace, Kocsis looked that part and observers noted the great degree that Kocsis was able to gain the upper hand in the air, an aerial prowess that would be one of his great towering, emblematical attributes. In the normal course of his career he had an admirable beginning, trudging a plain high road to renown with him being the world's leading first-division scorer in 1952 and 1954 with respect to 36 and 33 goals in those years that elevated him at the bar of history. Often, though, he is most wonderful with his clear-blooded, strong-fibered physique who outvies others promiscuously while taking soaring flight in the air. Proper scores of tumbling gorgeousness cascade from his right foot and his head with prodigal zest. Most people presumed him the greatest header of the ball who ever lived. His raids among crowds so perfect, so essential that he could direct with superlative skill.


Quite a different side of Puskas, Kocsis could shoot terrifically and accurately with both feet and his head whereas Puskas was renowned for his booming broadsides with one. If Puskas was very lively in his perceptions and his spontaneous overflow and control, Kocsis was no less vigorous. Tall, handsome, strong, with no surplus once of flesh to burden him and a mind clear to see the point of a matter at once, one can detect in Sandor Kocsis superior elements in his game that is permanently on the alert, an athletic presence and a commanding persistence whose own manner of action had greatness in itself.



On his way up, he made his debut for the national team in June of 1945 in a high-scoring 9-0 defeat of Romania where he scored two goals to begin an enormously successful career at inside-right until October of 1956, and the team came through more successfully than other countries in large measure because of his talents and strengths. The next nine years showed Kocsis at the height of his energies and left no doubt that a player of great talent, like Puskas, had appeared in the period succeeding the war.


By the year 1954 when he was already seasoned in his profession and set to the fantastic frame of the World Cup tournament, it appeared to explain Sandor Kocsis himself as a great player exceeding all others in the game's history for scoring an average of 2.20 goals per game in those important matches that won the attention of the world. The 1954 World Cup was converted by Kocsis' art into a quasi-mythic competition for the delight and memorability it afforded, and no small part is owed to Sandor Koscis for conveying Hungary's success. It is also a plume in Kocsis' records the year in which the World Cup was played that saw his far-reaching fame go furthest, which remained an image of exclusively Kocsis' domination of the game when he scored 24 goals, the still the most in a single year in world football outside Asian federations.


Imagine a long, lean, fantastic young man with fine dreams who was so very rich in talent and who was on his way to becoming the greatest goalscorer of all time in the world game, that was Sandor Kocsis, the most constant of players. He tended to produce magnificent hat tricks, seven in all which was then a world record for many years after he left the international stage not by his choice.
 
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Gio

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Lorant and Thiago Silva

Lorant had to be both sweeper and centre-half: he could not afford to simply be a sweeper as depicted by EAP. You could not hold a gung-ho, high-playing back-line together by simply operating as a sweeper. You also had to go out and be a stalwart rock as @Downcast's link describes Lorant. He had to both commanding and classy, capable of dropping off to snuff out danger and ready to attack the first ball. A complete defender: good on the ball, good off it, reads the game sharply and acts decisively as the last line of defence. And arguably the player closest to a sweeper was the keeper:

Gyula Grosics said:
There was space behind our defence to be exploited so I had to act as a kind of extra sweeper, outside of my area, to reach the through ball before my opponent did.
I'd be interested to hear what, in the very complete game of Thiago Silva, makes him a poor fit for such an important all-round role.

Puskas on Puskas said:
Sebes was looking for a strong, skillful centre-back and the experienced Vasas player Gyula Lorant had caught his eye
As an aside, there's a great story behind Lorant. He was detained in a labour camp when Sebes wanted to bring him into the international fold. Regardless, Sebes managed to get the Interior Ministry to release Lorant for a game with Austria. Lorant played brilliantly and was a fixture in the team thereafter.
 

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For a start, the attack that was enlivened with the players swinging in free-flowing style toward opponents' goal did not liken to a ' line formation ' but laid down a more fluid checkered pattern where space was created to play the ball into by changing lane assignments to find perfect pieces of land and to fabricate confusion that was simply about twenty years ahead of its time: for example if Kocsis drifted wide Bozsik moved into the center, if the right-winger Budai moved inside then defending right-back Buzanszky overlapped Budai's original position, if Hidegkuti advanced upfield, Puskas dropped back and so on, and in this way with its striking degree of overlap prefaced the first edition of "Total Football".
Antonio Valencia - orthodox, disciplined, touchline-hugging outside right
@Gio has made between 7 and 9 excellent choices.

If I look at the Hungary team, I am just surprised by 2 players only: Kaladze & Valencia. Are they really versatile?

Then, I will look at the Barcelona team :)
 

Gio

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Other player I did raise in earlier match was Valencia. Budai was a typical outside right of that era with added defensive duties. There are articles which portray him as a brilliant dribbler too. Valencia is not a dribbler and is very unidimensional to fit into a flexible team as this.
I turned down far sexier alternatives than Valencia for the outside-right role. It was the single job in that attack that was fairly consistent. Guaranteed width and work rate: stretching the play to create space for the rest of the attack to do what they do best.
 

Gio

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@Gio has made between 7 and 9 excellent choices.

If I look at the Hungary team, I am just surprised by 2 players only: Kaladze & Valencia. Are they really versatile?

Then, I will look at the Barcelona team :)
Well Kaladze was both left-back and centre-half for Milan. Buzanszky was more expansive on the right flank so Lantos had less room to roam. Even moreso given Czibor's penchant to roam across the park. I think the fit's okay there given the information we're working on.

As for Valencia, see above.
 

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@Gio Thanks for the answers.

Tomorrow I will look at Barcelona
 
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Joga Bonito

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I quite like Thiago for Lorant and he has the complete skill set required to fulfil that role, likewise Fabregas - although I'd have preferred a slightly more agile trickster in that role but it's a good enough remake as far as the fit for the role and philosophy goes.

The only issues I have are Pedro in EAP's side and Valencia in Gio's really. A more physical and striker-ish forward would have been ideal for replicating Salinas's role; and a slightly more dynamic (in terms of movement) right winger than Valencia would have been truer to Budai's role imo. However, it has to be said that Valencia's attributes and style of play by and large mirrors Budai - speedy and industrious winger capable of manning the entire right flank. It's just that Budai also frequently cut inside into the inside right channels (not in a goalscoring manner but more in line with a crossing/creative approach). The number of times Hidegkuti found Budai free on the inside right channels against England in 1953 was absurd enough to say the least. So whilst Valencia scores highly on remaking most of Budai's primary attributes, he does fall short when it comes to potential interplay/inter-change of the offensive line dynamics and range of movement, as he is more of a limited line-hugging wide player.

Even then, I was pondering over better alternatives for that Budai role and it's hard to think of any tbf. It's hard to find a modern right winger who has the same level of interplay and range of movement AND also most importantly, the tactical discipline and industry to more or less own the right flank single-handedly. Thus I can appreciate Gio going for the more sensible option and spurning the more flashy ones (he himself has Deisler in his team after all).
 
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harms

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Even then, I was pondering over better alternatives for that Budai role and it's hard to think of any tbf. It's hard to find a modern right winger who has the same level of interplay and range of movement AND also most importantly, the tactical discipline and industry to more or less own the right flank single-handedly.
To be honest I had the same problem with replicating George - who was pretty much an architypical right winger and we don't have enough of those today. My first thought was Kanchelskis, but he was too old, my second thought was Valencia and the only problems with him were that he doesn't have any dribbling skills (he only has one move) and that he doesn't cut inside, like, ever (apart from the goal vs Blackburn iirc). Finally I settled on Kuba who, I think, is simple enough to be considered a classical winger and have tenacity and work-rate to cover the whole flank (he even played as a fullback, like Valencia), but he has a little more to this game, can dribble and cut inside if the situation requires. But it's funny that someone so plain and simple (unlike Rijkaard, Matthaus and Hidegkuti) is so hard to replicate.
 

harms

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I was thinking in lines of Walcott or Nani there. Talented, can cross and more importantly....can dribble. The work rate was to pick balls from midfield and they can do it.
For me those two are too multifunctional if that makes sense. And I certainly wouldn't have picked them for a role that requires help to their fullback - so there is a question of how much do you think Budai participated in the defensive phase of the game
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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For me those two are too multifunctional if that makes sense. And I certainly wouldn't have picked them for a role that requires help to their fullback - so there is a question of how much do you think Budai participated in the defensive phase of the game
From what I read, none at all. They (especially Budai) was tasked to "pick up balls from the midfield" is as close to describing their roles. I'd put their fullback support to minimal. Caibor was the more attacking of the duo, but still Budai was not a 'one man flank' type player. He usually played ahead with Buszansky making the runs from the deep. That team leaked in 11 goals in 6 matches or so...not exactly a defensive minded player there, except for Lorant maybe.

And from all articles, Budai was an excellent dribbler. That's is why I still believe Valencia does not fully fit that role. Maybe Young on the right flank?
 

Joga Bonito

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From what I read, none at all. They (especially Budai) was tasked to "pick up balls from the midfield" is as close to describing their roles. I'd put their fullback support to minimal. Caibor was the more attacking of the duo, but still Budai was not a 'one man flank' type player. He usually played ahead with Buszansky making the runs from the deep. That team leaked in 11 goals in 6 matches or so...not exactly a defensive minded player there, except for Lorant maybe.

And from all articles, Budai was an excellent dribbler. That's is why I still believe Valencia does not fully fit that role. Maybe Young on the right flank?
Well, perhaps calling Budai/Czibor a one-man flank might be too much given that they clearly enjoyed the support of Lantos/Buzansky but I'd say they were really hard-working wingers who put in a shift off the ball and covered most of their flanks. For instance Czibor squared up successfully against Sir Stanley Matthews off the ball quite a few times during their match in 1953. There were also times when Czibor/Budai tended to stay up the pitch and act as counter-attacking threats (esp Czibor).

I'd say out of all their forwards/midfielders etc Budai had the relatively most straight-forward and tactically disciplined role - staying out right stretching play and dropping back and helping his side when out of possession etc. Even, then there were times when he moved into the inside right position and he wasn't just strictly hugging the touch-line. So in that sense I see Valencia being a more suitable replacement where he fulfils the primary requirements of the role and falls short in the secondary ones; as opposed to the likes of Walcott/Nani who would have exhibited more proficiency in the secondary phases but would have been woeful in terms of carrying out the primary duties, which that role dictated.

Czibor was an absolute delight in his position and in terms of his movement though. By and large, he provided width on the left but he also tracked back, roamed onto the other flank and even took up central positions during counter-attacks to pose a formidable threat on the break - with Puskas's and Bozsik's vision coming to the fore. Fantastic player.
 

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Gio has a team comprised of fantastic players while EAP had probably more tactical constraints and decided to opt for less famous players in order to catch the style of play of any player.

The 1st pick of EAP was Vieira against Totti for Gio so EAP has complicated his drafting.

Contrary to the last 2 drafts, EAP has reached the 2nd round and only lost against the 4times Redcafé Draft Winner.
 

harms

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Contrary to the last 2 drafts, EAP has reached the 2nd round and only lost against the 4times Redcafé Draft Winner.
You should add nouns at the end of your observations to sound even more like Opta tweets. Advice. :D
 

Enigma_87

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I'd say Buzansky did have freedom to push up when Hungary had the ball but I'd primarily class him as a RCB/RB when Hungary were out of possession. Not so much a conventional CB imo. Lahm seems a perfect fit for that role than someone less defensively astute in Dani Alves or a more gung-ho overlapper. Buzansky was also a fairly tidy player on the ball and was arguably the best ball playing defender at the back for Hungary and Lahm brings just that to the table with this quality on the ball imo.
I see him more of a right wing back mate. From what I've seen in highlights when the Hungarians go forward it's usually transition to 2-3-5 in a high line. Buzansky was the more adventurous and despite of not scoring for the national team he was integral part in their attack. he usually passed the half line and was on the right hand side overlapping Budai. Even from some of those highlights you can see him in transition in both attack and then in defence how often he was caught out of position. If we're to translate it to modern days I'd pretty much think it's a wing back that we have to replace him with rather than RCB. Even if we take Reiziger as an example - good on the ball and solid defensively in a high line defence I still think a Dani Alves/Marcelo type is a better fit. Naturally you'll see Buzansky tucking in but it's in the same mold as a wing back will tuck in to cover.

If we get back to the initial formation Buzanski's position and arrows should be closer to the touchline with an arrow forward to indicate the forward runs and an inside arrow that would indicate his man covering when the team was caught out of possession.

Apart from that you need more aggressive player in that position than Lahm. The Magyars were ball hogs that really pressed the other team to get the ball back. I don't see Lahm having that level of aggression in his game.

Anyways my .02 on this one. Didn't have much time today to vote and I really liked both teams with some details here and there.