Ruben Neves

KingCavani

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That’s different. Our scouting system told us he wasn’t any better than what we had which is why we didn’t give the funds to Jose. We then went and spent even more money on him in the summer whilst not having a system to fit him in.

There was so much wrong with that business it’s hilarious. But it’s nowhere near the same as Rice except both are English.

But I will allow you to explain.
The mentality of a low risk, sure thing, PL proven player was exactly the mentality we had in the 2019 summer window. We knew we were overspending but did it anyways because we'd be burned by Lindelof and Bailly, both of whom were better signings and the latter of which was just unlucky with injuries.

You're right that Rice is a higher level player which is why he'll likely cost £20-40m more. The PL clubs are under no financial pressure to sell and will hold out for extortionate fees exactly how Leicester did. There are other midfielders out there not named Declan Rice and zoning in on him because he's less of a risk to completely flop is as inefficient as it is lazy.
 

romufc

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That‘s the problem. You like to think scouting at the top level for a club of United standards is suppose to be magical. Man City signed Jack Grealish this summer. The summer before that Ruben Dias, Nathan Ake and Ferran Torres. I mean how blatantly obvious are they. So obviously guess who also was scouting them. That’s right Manchester United.

It’s simple you aim to get the best in class for your club or the youngsters with the biggest potential. You then fill out the squad with well scouted punts who can turn Into something.

What you don’t do is attempt to fill your biggest whole in the team with a £30m punt. Which is why Liverpools goal keeper was a record fee.
Oh yes, Jack Grealish has filled a massive hole in City's team, he must be un droppable.. oh wait.

Yeah, we were scouting Ferran Torres, they bought him for £20m.

Again, yes we were scouting Dias.. instead we spent £80m on Maguire that summer, great scouting!

What you also don't do is become deluded in thinking that big fee = good player. I would rather punt £30m on players than sign a £50m punt who cannot pass, £80m CB who cant defend, £40m midfielder who cant get a game, £30m RW who plays reserves, £80m RW that is playing LWB.
 

KingCavani

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Would like to know who these alternatives to Neves for up to 40-£50mil are? Talking a passing midfielder, who can control the tempo and can do the short, medium, long range passing that we are missing.
Neves doesn't control the tempo of games at all.
 

FrankDrebin

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Would like to know who these alternatives to Neves for up to 40-£50mil are? Talking a passing midfielder, who can control the tempo and can do the short, medium, long range passing that we are missing.
That's his team mate.
 

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Ironic you use Liverpool in that instance.

Salah, Mane, Jota, Henderson, Wijnaldum,Matip,Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain were all exactly that. Punts.

None of those were best in class when signed.
Salah best performing winger in Serie A playing for Roma. Well sort after youth player that got him a move to Chelsea in the first place having rejected Liverpool

Mane - In Rangnick’s own words.. highlighting a player moving onto his second big contract in football. Highly sort after in the English league which nearly seen him secure a move to United if not for being outpriced under the LVG era.

Gini- Well sort after talent From the Dutch league. If I’m not mistaken the youngest debutant for Feyenoord. Had a bad knee injury But recovered, ended up at PSV. Was captain that won them their last major trophy ( might be wrong). Took a punt and went to Newcastle. Performed really well and made a Hemman like move to Liverpool.

Matip, Robertson.. I don’t know much about.

Ox. Very highly rated part of the Arsenal rebirth. Good signing that also helps with the English quota. Unfortunately bad injures.

Jota - Top 3 at Wolves very good player.

Hendo- bad start but was highly rated at Sunderland.

So I have 2 punts. Matip and Henderson.

Who are our punts and what’s the ratio of that to our success. I.e how many know quality additions are we making to balance out the large percentage of being a failure punts we are looking to sign?

I.e. if we take Maguire, AWB and James. That’s a 1 in 3.
 

Smores

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A lot of our best signings over the years have been players who are around that age bracket, performing decently for their club but not considered the best in class.

For 35 million there's little risk on a 24 year old. He doesn't work out you move him on.
 

macheda14

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If the right quality of player is not available in january then we should keep the money in the pocket, no more panic signings of average players for high fees please, it only sets us further back. There is no reason whatsoever that we can't sign two cm's in the same window so i'm not sure what you are on about there.
We can of course do it, but its incredibly rare to see a club buy two new starting CMs and it work out. It's a huge risk. Just like you don't buy two starting CBs.

People criticised Ole for his strategy of only bringing in about three players a season, 2 of which are arguably starters, but most managers do the same. They need to adjust to the team and the team needs to adjust to them.

The CM is the heart of the team, they need to have an understanding with far more players than any other position. You bring in two new CMs to start together for big money and more likely than not one will not meld well with the side.

The two best examples I can think of are when Liverpool bought Fabinho and Keita at the same time. Keita has never really gotten going, only now is he maybe looking alright. Then look at Spurs with Lo Celso (admittedly a CAM) and Ndombele...

Is Neves better than what we have now? Yes. Could he spend 6 months building relationships with his teammates? Yes. Could we then bring in another starter in the summer (as well as probably another young talent) and it not upset the balance whilst our whole midfield has then been improved? Yes.

We're most likely losing Pogba, VdB and Matic in the summer. That leaves us with McFred. Are we buying 3 CMs in the summer and thereby not strengthening anywhere else on the pitch? Probably not.
 

dinostar77

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Neves doesn't control the tempo of games at all.
Because of the way Wolves play and they have moutinho. Carrick never controlled the tempo of the game at west ham, didnt when he came here and we still had scholes, but did when scholes retired and carrick moved a more deeper midfield role.

Neves has the ability to control the tempo of a game, he has the passing ability and vision to do so. Thats what Utd scouts would be looking at (if we are in for him). His ability to step his game up, with age and experience. How many players were controlling the tempo of their midfields at 24? Xavi wasnt, modric wasnt, xavi alonso wasnt. It comes with experience and age.
 

Mainoldo

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The mentality of a low risk, sure thing, PL proven player was exactly the mentality we had in the 2019 summer window. We knew we were overspending but did it anyways because we'd be burned by Lindelof and Bailly, both of whom were better signings and the latter of which was just unlucky with injuries.

You're right that Rice is a higher level player which is why he'll likely cost £20-40m more. The PL clubs are under no financial pressure to sell and will hold out for extortionate fees exactly how Leicester did. There are other midfielders out there not named Declan Rice and zoning in on him because he's less of a risk to completely flop is as inefficient as it is lazy.
It’s not though. Your just painting the same brush for every situation. That’s not how it works. I’ve said repeatedly we brought players that didn’t suit a style. We wanted fast attacking full backs. We brought a full back who can’t cross. Don’t get me wrong AWB would be amazing for Jose but Jose ball isn’t United football. We then brought an immobile CB and partnered him next to the Swedish betec Pique.

All we have to do is identify a style. I’ve never said Rice is a most but I’ve identified him as the perfect fit however if you want to take a risk for lower value. Go get Kamara or Tchomini(However you spell it). Now They are risks because of the obvious, but doesn’t mean they aren’t risk. They are also young too.
 

L1nk

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Are people seriously arguing against Neves when they've seen nothing but Fred, McTominay and Matic for god knows how long now? We genuinely deserve all the shit we see on the field sometimes with fans like this, it's insane
 

Mainoldo

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Oh yes, Jack Grealish has filled a massive hole in City's team, he must be un droppable.. oh wait.

Yeah, we were scouting Ferran Torres, they bought him for £20m.

Again, yes we were scouting Dias.. instead we spent £80m on Maguire that summer, great scouting!

What you also don't do is become deluded in thinking that big fee = good player. I would rather punt £30m on players than sign a £50m punt who cannot pass, £80m CB who cant defend, £40m midfielder who cant get a game, £30m RW who plays reserves, £80m RW that is playing LWB.
So are we going to skip over the original point because I answered it correctly? Big clubs don’t take punts on first team players. They get the best.

Fee’s? You do realise all of City’s players cost a lot of money. Ferran also was only cheap because of a clause that kicked in that season. Go do some research on how much they really valued him.
 

Adam-Utd

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Salah best performing winger in Serie A playing for Roma. Well sort after youth player that got him a move to Chelsea in the first place having rejected Liverpool

Mane - In Rangnick’s own words.. highlighting a player moving onto his second big contract in football. Highly sort after in the English league which nearly seen him secure a move to United if not for being outpriced under the LVG era.

Gini- Well sort after talent From the Dutch league. If I’m not mistaken the youngest debutant for Feyenoord. Had a bad knee injury But recovered, ended up at PSV. Was captain that won them their last major trophy ( might be wrong). Took a punt and went to Newcastle. Performed really well and made a Hemman like move to Liverpool.

Matip, Robertson.. I don’t know much about.

Ox. Very highly rated part of the Arsenal rebirth. Good signing that also helps with the English quota. Unfortunately bad injures.

Jota - Top 3 at Wolves very good player.

Hendo- bad start but was highly rated at Sunderland.

So I have 2 punts. Matip and Henderson.

Who are our punts and what’s the ratio of that to our success. I.e how many know quality additions are we making to balance out the large percentage of being a failure punts we are looking to sign?

I.e. if we take Maguire, AWB and James. That’s a 1 in 3.
:lol: that's not how it works.

Firmino was a good striker at Hoffenheim, but nothing outrageous. He fit their style perfectly, goal wasn't everything. Punt.

Robertson a fullback from a relegated hull side for 7m? definition of a punt.

Gini was half decent midfielder at Newcastle, nobody else was raving about him. = punt.

Mane and Jota were good players, many here said they weren't good enough for United. Punt.

Matip a semi decent defender for a poor Schalke side, awful injury record. Punt.

Henderson the midfielder Fergie said ran like a duck :lol:

The point is, Liverpool have build their side on decent players that improved. Not ready made stars. This is where we keep going wrong.
 

romufc

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So are we going to skip over the original point because I answered it correctly? Big clubs don’t take punts on first team players. They get the best.

Fee’s? You do realise all of City’s players cost a lot of money. Ferran also was only cheap because of a clause that kicked in that season. Go do some research on how much they really valued him.
Signing a player that is not £60m doesn't mean its a punt... I have no idea where that logic has come from.

Go check how much Chelsea signed Mendy for.

City players cost alot of money, yes they also have delivered on the pitch. Well, no club is going to come out and say we value him at £100m but we will give you £20m, that is just dumb.

If you think they valued him at £60m, show me the proof instead of making it up.

Also, that comment in bold. That's what clubs do, we dont. We don't get the best, we get what is best for the shirt sales.
 

Pearl's a minger

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Good solid player and in my opinion at around the 40 million mark i'd say well worth a punt. As we've found out in the past 8 years paying top dollar doesn't automatically reap rewards. How many times have we had our pants pulled down in that time by signing another underwhelming mercenary who turns out to be a complete dud who's usually after one last big pay day or is already past there best as a player?
 

MUFC OK

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:lol: that's not how it works.

Firmino was a good striker at Hoffenheim, but nothing outrageous. He fit their style perfectly, goal wasn't everything. Punt.

Robertson a fullback from a relegated hull side for 7m? definition of a punt.

Gini was half decent midfielder at Newcastle, nobody else was raving about him. = punt.

Mane and Jota were good players, many here said they weren't good enough for United. Punt.

Matip a semi decent defender for a poor Schalke side, awful injury record. Punt.

Henderson the midfielder Fergie said ran like a duck :lol:

The point is, Liverpool have build their side on decent players that improved. Not ready made stars. This is where we keep going wrong.
Preach. Let's be honest, the majority want Declan Rice, but if he's going to cost £100m, we should definitely avoid.
 

VP89

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Salah best performing winger in Serie A playing for Roma. Well sort after youth player that got him a move to Chelsea in the first place having rejected Liverpool

Mane - In Rangnick’s own words.. highlighting a player moving onto his second big contract in football. Highly sort after in the English league which nearly seen him secure a move to United if not for being outpriced under the LVG era.

Gini- Well sort after talent From the Dutch league. If I’m not mistaken the youngest debutant for Feyenoord. Had a bad knee injury But recovered, ended up at PSV. Was captain that won them their last major trophy ( might be wrong). Took a punt and went to Newcastle. Performed really well and made a Hemman like move to Liverpool.

Matip, Robertson.. I don’t know much about.

Ox. Very highly rated part of the Arsenal rebirth. Good signing that also helps with the English quota. Unfortunately bad injures.

Jota - Top 3 at Wolves very good player.

Hendo- bad start but was highly rated at Sunderland.

So I have 2 punts. Matip and Henderson.

Who are our punts and what’s the ratio of that to our success. I.e how many know quality additions are we making to balance out the large percentage of being a failure punts we are looking to sign?

I.e. if we take Maguire, AWB and James. That’s a 1 in 3.
Liverpool have made a lot of risky transfers, but they knew the players they went for can fit the system well. @Adam-Utd has already explained how many are "punts" but just to add, Gini was playing as a winger for Newcastle. It was Klopp who moulded him into a central midfielder within the Premier League, which is quite the punt.
 

Adam-Utd

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Preach. Let's be honest, the majority want Declan Rice, but if he's going to cost £100m, we should definitely avoid.
I think Rice is a good player, but the fawning over him drives me crazy. The price tag is insane especially.
 

AneRu

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Preach. Let's be honest, the majority want Declan Rice, but if he's going to cost £100m, we should definitely avoid.
Not to mention that the disjointed or more aptly incomplete squad we have right now is a result of us spending the bulk of our money on just one player. The said player comes in but because the squad isn't complete it doesn't gel and win then pressure mounts and they fail to leave up to their fee. Eventually they become a figure of intense criticism, lose their confidence and become half the player see Pogba, Maguire and Sancho.

Neves, if he comes here, won't fail to do the basics of midfield play like passing, tackling and opening up passing options for team mates. You don't need everyone to be a world beater, sometimes someone doing the basics even if he might lose the odd midfield battle against a really top team. However I am still confident that in big games a midfield trio of Neves-Fred-Bruno can stand against anyone because they complement each other.

I think all the four previous managers we have had haven't really put much weight on the importance of a good passer in the team maybe with the exception of Van Gaal. This has to change.
 

roonster09

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Salah best performing winger in Serie A playing for Roma. Well sort after youth player that got him a move to Chelsea in the first place having rejected Liverpool

Mane - In Rangnick’s own words.. highlighting a player moving onto his second big contract in football. Highly sort after in the English league which nearly seen him secure a move to United if not for being outpriced under the LVG era.

Gini- Well sort after talent From the Dutch league. If I’m not mistaken the youngest debutant for Feyenoord. Had a bad knee injury But recovered, ended up at PSV. Was captain that won them their last major trophy ( might be wrong). Took a punt and went to Newcastle. Performed really well and made a Hemman like move to Liverpool.

Matip, Robertson.. I don’t know much about.

Ox. Very highly rated part of the Arsenal rebirth. Good signing that also helps with the English quota. Unfortunately bad injures.

Jota - Top 3 at Wolves very good player.

Hendo- bad start but was highly rated at Sunderland.

So I have 2 punts. Matip and Henderson.

Who are our punts and what’s the ratio of that to our success. I.e how many know quality additions are we making to balance out the large percentage of being a failure punts we are looking to sign?

I.e. if we take Maguire, AWB and James. That’s a 1 in 3.
Neves falls into same category, highly rated as youth player and also rated well in PL too.
 

Mainoldo

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:lol: that's not how it works.

Firmino was a good striker at Hoffenheim, but nothing outrageous. He fit their style perfectly, goal wasn't everything. Punt.

Robertson a fullback from a relegated hull side for 7m? definition of a punt.

Gini was half decent midfielder at Newcastle, nobody else was raving about him. = punt.

Mane and Jota were good players, many here said they weren't good enough for United. Punt.

Matip a semi decent defender for a poor Schalke side, awful injury record. Punt.

Henderson the midfielder Fergie said ran like a duck :lol:

The point is, Liverpool have build their side on decent players that improved. Not ready made stars. This is where we keep going wrong.
What style? He was brought for Brendan Rodgers at an AM who could play long the front line like he did for Hoffenheim. Again a player who United scouted. Would you class Anthony as a punt is we signed him in this window?

I just gave you Gini's background why are you being ignoring to it. He wasn't just a decent midfielder who no1 was raving about. He was a highly rated player from Feyenoord's youth academy who had a very big injury. His punt was a move to Newcastle.

Yes let's listen to Redcafe the guys that recommend Darmian as the best RB in Europe until he puts on a United shirt and he's fans magically can't remember what they said.

Matip as I said I knew nothing about. Fair enough. He's hardly the best CB in Europe now is he.

Fergie said he'd have a lot of injures with his body type he also liked him. I'm sure if he didn't walk like a duck we would of preceded with the signing.

Liverpool have built there side on a well designed system. Which were nearly men until they signed VVD, Alisson, Fabinho.
 

Mainoldo

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Neves falls into same category, highly rated as youth player and also rated well in PL too.
He does, he does. I just think he fits a short term problem. I.e until the end of the season. The midfield has been so bad for so long we need to fix it properly. Who is the player that plays next to Neves? When you think about that you see how quickly the signing becomes an issue.
 

Mainoldo

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Liverpool have made a lot of risky transfers, but they knew the players they went for can fit the system well. @Adam-Utd has already explained how many are "punts" but just to add, Gini was playing as a winger for Newcastle. It was Klopp who moulded him into a central midfielder within the Premier League, which is quite the punt.
Where did Gini play for PSV when he captained them? He hasn't been a flying winger since a teen.
 

bond19821982

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:lol: that's not how it works.

Firmino was a good striker at Hoffenheim, but nothing outrageous. He fit their style perfectly, goal wasn't everything. Punt.

Robertson a fullback from a relegated hull side for 7m? definition of a punt.

Gini was half decent midfielder at Newcastle, nobody else was raving about him. = punt.

Mane and Jota were good players, many here said they weren't good enough for United. Punt.

Matip a semi decent defender for a poor Schalke side, awful injury record. Punt.

Henderson the midfielder Fergie said ran like a duck :lol:

The point is, Liverpool have build their side on decent players that improved. Not ready made stars. This is where we keep going wrong.
True that. Imagine the scenes here if we had signed Hendo,Mane,Matip and Gini ?

Thanks to Klopp though. He knew what he wanted and he chased that type of players. With Ralf in charge, I hope we also make similar changes. About 6 years late huh !!
 

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Would like to know who these alternatives to Neves for up to 40-£50mil are? Talking a passing midfielder, who can control the tempo, recirculate possesion and can do the short, medium, long range passing that we are missing.
Neves doesnt do that. Wolves average 47.6% of the ball across all matches and even against us they had 48%. Moutinho made more passes and more key passes against us and with a higher passing percentage. His short passing isnt any more impressive than Van De Beek or Pogba

Posters want to attribute it all to one player, but its a combination of Moutinho who was the better performer on the day and Neves that allowed Wolves to have a fairly good showing in midfield. Even then Matic made more passes with higher pass accuracy and more key passes than Neves. And Moutinho won 6 tackles which is very high, Matic 4 and Neves 0

35 year old Moutinho is often just as if good if not better than Neves
 

MUFC OK

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Not to mention that the disjointed or more aptly incomplete squad we have right now is a result of us spending the bulk of our money on just one player. The said player comes in but because the squad isn't complete it doesn't gel and win then pressure mounts and they fail to leave up to their fee. Eventually they become a figure of intense criticism, lose their confidence and become half the player see Pogba, Maguire and Sancho.
Exactly, why not sign Neves and Mcginn or someone else for the same price as just one player? We're not the scouts but those are obvious premier league proven players who bring attributes that we sorely lack. We already have the marquee players, we need to build around them with players who will make this team a cohesive unit.
 

Mainoldo

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Neves doesnt do that. Wolves average 47.6% of the ball across all matches and even against us they had 48%. Moutinho made more passes and more key passes against us and with a higher passing percentage. His short passing isnt any more impressive than Van De Beek or Pogba

Posters want to attribute it all to one player, but its a combination of Moutinho who was the better performer on the day and Neves that allowed Wolves to have a fairly good showing in midfield. Even then Matic made more passes with higher pass accuracy and more key passes than Neves. And Moutinho won 6 tackles which is very high, Matic 4 and Neves 0

35 year old Moutinho is often just as if good if not better than Neves
Don't worry mate. Most only want him over Moutinho because they figured out he's the younger version and therefore must be better. Like many have pointed out he's not going to dictate the tempo and he doesn't control games. But yet because he looks better than Scott and Fred they think he will come here and be able to allow us to compete with the City's and Pools. As I said previously.. he would need a better partner with Moutinho attributes so therefore what is the point as non of us are calling out for Moutinho are we.

We need to asses what we required from a midfield duo. Or if we intend to move to 3, what we require from a 3.
 

Mainoldo

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Exactly, why not sign Neves and Mcginn or someone else for the same price as just one player? We're not the scouts but those are obvious premier league proven players who bring attributes that we sorely lack. We already have the marquee players, we need to build around them with players who will make this team a cohesive unit.
How do we sustain control in the middle of the park with Neve, McGuinn and Bruno. Especially dealing with a low block? Sound team building that.
 

Adam-Utd

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True that. Imagine the scenes here if we had signed Hendo,Mane,Matip and Gini ?

Thanks to Klopp though. He knew what he wanted and he chased that type of players. With Ralf in charge, I hope we also make similar changes. About 6 years late huh !!
Which is my point really.

Klopp had a system and picked players for it to make it work, he didn't chase star names and hope to fit them in later.

I really hope from this point onwards that's how we work. We need to stop turning our noses up at players who play for average teams, and just concentrate on what they bring to us.
 

bond19821982

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Which is my point really.

Klopp had a system and picked players for it to make it work, he didn't chase star names and hope to fit them in later.

I really hope from this point onwards that's how we work. We need to stop turning our noses up at players who play for average teams, and just concentrate on what they bring to us.
Agree - AWB, Donny, Sancho are all poorly planned signings (recent ones).

Imagine if we had signed an attacking right back, Rafinha and a proper midfielder?
 

Mainoldo

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Which is my point really.

Klopp had a system and picked players for it to make it work, he didn't chase star names and hope to fit them in later.

I really hope from this point onwards that's how we work. We need to stop turning our noses up at players who play for average teams, and just concentrate on what they bring to us.
All the players we tend to buy come from average teams. Again your not really making sense you are just delivering sound bites.

Club's don't just go for average players and are happy as long as they fit his system. They work within their budget range and identify players who show a certain type of quality. He also doesn't always get his first choice so even the players you big up aren't always his actually intended options. I'm pretty sure if he was at United our same transfer strategy would be in place the only difference is he would make it work because he only wants players that contain the required attributes.

You are looking at names and fee's that is not the issue. The issue for the love of money is getting the right profile of player to fit a system. So when I highlight our strategy might not change it's because signing a Liverpool player and a United player is a lot different. It's also different to signing a Dortmund player and a Liverpool player which is why he didn't run out and go grab a bunch of players similar to what he did a Dortmund. Who is Liverpool's Lewandowski?
 

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Which is my point really.

Klopp had a system and picked players for it to make it work, he didn't chase star names and hope to fit them in later.

I really hope from this point onwards that's how we work. We need to stop turning our noses up at players who play for average teams, and just concentrate on what they bring to us.
I think we've mostly done that its just that we've had different managers so the ideas changed over time. For example we signed AWB and Maguire from average clubs when our defensive record was terrible and our defensive record greatly improved the next season. Now obviously we were hoping Maguire would work out as well as VVD and he hasnt come close. But the point is that Liverpool went big for their CB, so did we and we clearly needed to greatly improve defensively so we signed defensive players to fix the weakness in how we were playing and the results we were getting.

Bruno Fernandes, we were playing 4-2-3-1 with Andreas doing okay but not great as our AM. We signed an AM specialist who had dominated the portuguese league for years.

Now after that I guess you have a point. But I would suggest that Sancho was the correct type of player to improve us based on our tactics at the time and even now, he's just underdelivered because he hasnt settled quickly
 

Adam-Utd

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I think we've mostly done that its just that we've had different managers so the ideas changed over time. For example we signed AWB and Maguire from average clubs when our defensive record was terrible and our defensive record greatly improved the next season. Now obviously we were hoping Maguire would work out as well as VVD and he hasnt come close. But the point is that Liverpool went big for their CB, so did we and we clearly needed to greatly improve defensively so we signed defensive players to fix the weakness in how we were playing and the results we were getting.

Bruno Fernandes, we were playing 4-2-3-1 with Andreas doing okay but not great as our AM. We signed an AM specialist who had dominated the portuguese league for years.

Now after that I guess you have a point. But I would suggest that Sancho was the correct type of player to improve us based on our tactics at the time and even now, he's just underdelivered because he hasnt settled quickly
We signed a clear upgrade in Bruno yes, but i'd say that was finally our scouting department doing what it should be doing. He was hardly a no name at that stage though.

I'm not suggesting don't ever spend big money, but it has to be for the right person. Bruno had everything we needed (goals, work rate, creativity) but then we go and sign DVB who was clearly just a panic buy after we couldn't get Grealish in the door. No planning behind that, just whoever we could get with a fancy name. It seems like the coaching staff were surprised when they realised he's not very dynamic, so what have they been watching?!
 

RedCurry

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My problem with him is that even though he has a good long pass - I only see it like once or maybe twice a match whenever I watch him.

He doesn't exactly play like Carrick or Scholes who are dictating the play from deep, dictating the tempo and positioning of our football with his passes.

I feel like I see this even more with Pogba than Ruben Neves - with obviously Neves being better defensively than Pogba is.
If he was doing that at 24-25 in PL, he would cost us 100m+ and actually every team in the league would be after him. How many such players exist in the world at this time? There’s a massive shortage of quality deep-lying midfielders who can dictate play. Under a good coach I feel Neves will go up a few levels.Our team lacks technical players in the midfield and for that alone, I would take him.
 

MUFC OK

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How do we sustain control in the middle of the park with Neve, McGuinn and Bruno. Especially dealing with a low block? Sound team building that.
Mcginn plays box to box, Neves is very much a holding mifielder.

You might argue we need a destroyer in there but I don’t necessarily agree. If we get a strictly defensive midfielder it’s imperative they show for the ball and are able to play forward as well. Like you said we need sustain control and the best way to do that is a midfielder with a great passing range. What do you think we need in there out of interest?
 

Bebestation

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If he was doing that at 24-25 in PL, he would cost us 100m+ and actually every team in the league would be after him. How many such players exist in the world at this time? There’s a massive shortage of quality deep-lying midfielders who can dictate play. Under a good coach I feel Neves will go up a few levels.Our team lacks technical players in the midfield and for that alone, I would take him.
I'm not writing Neves off - but I do look at a player like Caqueret and how he plays at the age of 21.
 

Mainoldo

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Mcginn plays box to box, Neves is very much a holding mifielder.

You might argue we need a destroyer in there but I don’t necessarily agree. If we get a strictly defensive midfielder it’s imperative they show for the ball and are able to play forward as well. Like you said we need sustain control and the best way to do that is a midfielder with a great passing range. What do you think we need in there out of interest?
Like someone said. He's not a better passer than Pogba or VDB. I wouldn't have trust in him at all to control our midfield. Moutinho is a better passer than him too.. He's a progressive passer which actually will work for Ralph but he doesn't help contain possession neither does he have to IQ to set the tempo of a game.

If Barca still want to sell De Jong maybe we look at a player like him for what you are asking for.
 

pocco

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Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
Crazy to think, once upon a time Moutinho was the OG 'Gaitan' link to us every summer, along with the other fella whose name I forget....with the long blonde hair.

Anyway, that seems like such a long time ago now and he's still here playing like a true top class player in the Premier League. Perhaps we did miss out on him all those years ago.

EDIT: Miguel Veloso!