Saudis taking over Newcastle

Sky1981

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It easy for us as united fans or the other top clubs to look down on this takeover because Those are a very wealthy club, United spend a hundred million every summer. United fans can scoff at it if they tried to buy us out. It’s like saying We own a Lamborghini, Bugatti is an upgrade sure, but I like what I have. Newcastle, both fans and club want to get big again, they may not get this opportunity ever again for another 10-15 years or if at all. So I can’t blame them if they want this takeover. They obviously don’t care about the stuff outside of football. They want Mike Ashley gone at any cost.
Forget Newcastle.

There's still thread about united wanting them to come. It's only less than 12 months ago.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/saudi-takeover-claim-deal-done.451585/page-4
 

reddevilchennai

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Reports are coming that they might possibly takeover AS Roma incase Newcastle takeover fails.

Good for PL so that there won't be one more oil club who will buy success only through their sugar daddy.
 

Strelok

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He's fecking answered that already.
No he didn't. He said "unwelcome".

Mate are you on a wind up?

I've already answered that question more than once.



feck me mate you must be on a wind up. Did you even read my previous posts?

To summarize my stance if it wasn't obvious to you already, no i wouldn't knowingly use their Oil/products if i had the choice.

But even if i did, for the third time i invite you to re-read my story about Dave. Which explains how ludicrous it is to suggest that people who do use products made from Saudi Oil can't be against them owning football clubs.
No I'm not. I just can't understand the logic behind. It's like you're a vegan and and you are ok to eat something you can't be sure that it doesn't include meat or not. And you know very well that it's a big chance there's meat inside.

To summarize my stance if it wasn't obvious to you already, no i wouldn't knowingly use their Oil/products if i had the choice.
Problem is you don't have the choice. The only way to make sure you don't use anything from them is to not use gas, plastic etc. at all. Of course you can't do that. So if you can live with the posibility using things come from them, why can't you live with them buying a football club?

P/s: Sorry for the late reply, I don't often visit the caf. And there's no alert, weird but no idea why.
 
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stevoc

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No I'm not. I just can't understand the logic behind. It's like you're a vegan and and you are ok to eat something you can't be sure that it doesn't include meat or not. And you know very well that it's a big chance there's meat inside.
Indeed and it isn't remotely.

Can you articulate your thoughts without the use of tenuous analogies please mate?

Problem is you don't have the choice. The only way to make sure you don't use anything from them is to not use gas, oil, plastic etc. at all. Of course you can't do that. So if you can live with the posibility using things come from them, why can't you live with them buying a football club?
Of course i have a choice mate don't be so naive.

I don't have Gas central heating so i don't use Saudi Gas, I buy my fuel from an automated garage that helpfully tells me every time i fill up that the fuel i'm buying was sourced from a North Sea oil platform (FYI thats not in Saudi Arabia) so i don't buy Saudi Oil. And as previously mentioned the UK only imports 2-3 of its Oil from SA so the majority of people in the UK rarely if ever use Saudi Oil. (Note that 2-3% is just imports which makes up around half of the Oil the UK uses every year, a lot of people it seems don't realize the UK is actually one of the largest producers of Oil in Europe)

For plastic the dumbest of all these arguments see again my earlier conversation with Dave, you really need to read this.

''How do you feel about Saudi atrocities in Yemen Dave?''

''Well i was morally outraged but then i remembered i used a Berol pen in work last week that was in part manufactured with by-products from Saudi Oil. So while i would like to take a moral stance against their actions in Yemen to do so now after using that pen would make me a hypocrite.''
The moral of Dave's story is even if he did use some Saudi products knowingly or not, or things manufactured in other countries with the by products of Saudi Oil. It doesn't invalidate or remove his right to express an opinion and his objection to the brutal Saudi regime buying an English football club. The fact that lots of different products are made of or with Saudi Oil and sold around the world doesn't in any way remove the right for people to express an opinion on the Saudi regime. However much the Saudi regime wishes that were the case, because unlike in SA many people around the world have the right to freedom of speech.

Do you understand now?
 

padr81

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Indeed and it isn't remotely.

Can you articulate your thoughts without the use of tenuous analogies please mate?



Of course i have a choice mate don't be so naive.

I don't have Gas central heating so i don't use Saudi Gas, I buy my fuel from an automated garage that helpfully tells me every time i fill up that the fuel i'm buying was sourced from a North Sea oil platform (FYI thats not in Saudi Arabia) so i don't buy Saudi Oil. And as previously mentioned the UK only imports 2-3 of its Oil from SA so the majority of people in the UK rarely if ever use Saudi Oil. (Note that 2-3% is just imports which makes up around half of the Oil the UK uses every year, a lot of people it seems don't realize the UK is actually one of the largest producers of Oil in Europe)

For plastic the dumbest of all these arguments see again my earlier conversation with Dave, you really need to read this.

The moral of Dave's story is even if he did use some Saudi products knowingly or not, or things manufactured in other countries with the by products of Saudi Oil. It doesn't invalidate or remove his right to express an opinion and his objection to the brutal Saudi regime buying an English football club. The fact that lots of different products are made of or with Saudi Oil and sold around the world doesn't in any way remove the right for people to express an opinion on the Saudi regime. However much the Saudi regime wishes that were the case, because unlike in SA many people around the world have the right to freedom of speech.

Do you understand now?
So what's your stance on United being plastered front and center of gulf oil middle East website and their long standing deal with Saudi Telecom?

Is there a certain threshold one clubs relationship with oil money must pass before they become morally bankrupt?

I'm curious why I never see these issues treated the same way
 

stevoc

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So what's your stance on United being plastered front and center of gulf oil middle East website and their long standing deal with Saudi Telecom?
I'm not a fan of it mate and would prefer it if the club didn't associate with them, but as far as i'm aware the Glazers have a long standing business relationship with the Saudi's which explains why they don't have a problem with it. On the plus side if they do buy Newcastle then that sponsorship will probably end.

Is there a certain threshold one clubs relationship with oil money must pass before they become morally bankrupt?
A football club is only as moral as the people who run it, as we know lots of the folk running clubs these days are at best morally grey and put profit before principles. But being owned directly by people like the ruling Saudi family is on another level of moral bankruptcy.

I'm curious why I never see these issues treated the same way
Probably because they're not the same mate.
 

Cloud7

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Reports are coming that they might possibly takeover AS Roma incase Newcastle takeover fails.

Good for PL so that there won't be one more oil club who will buy success only through their sugar daddy.
That would be interesting. Considering Juventus generally operate on smart spending rather than big (Ronaldo, Higuain aside), a club like Roma shelling out big might just shake things up over there.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Yep there will always be people who put money above morals. They’ll have little problem employing people for every position.
Then UK should first stop doing business with China because China is the worst in almost every category from human right, concentration camp, anything and everything you can imagine.
 

Sky1981

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Then UK should first stop doing business with China because China is the worst in almost every category from human right, concentration camp, anything and everything you can imagine.
Concentration camp, is this where the CCP abducts torture and organ harvest millions of chinese people?

My oh my, in the near future even our kidneys and lungs will be made in china
 
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Slysi17

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That would be interesting. Considering Juventus generally operate on smart spending rather than big (Ronaldo, Higuain aside), a club like Roma shelling out big might just shake things up over there.
I actually think it makes more sense for the Saudis to buy AS Roma than Newcastle. It's not because I don't want the Saudis to buy Newcastle. The reason is that it would be easier to make AS Roma successful than Newcastle due to teams not being able to financially compete except for maybe Juventus in Serie A. In the premier league, you have at least 4 teams who can financially compete with a Saudi owned Newcastle.
 

stevoc

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Then UK should first stop doing business with China because China is the worst in almost every category from human right, concentration camp, anything and everything you can imagine.
Yeah in an ideal world no country or business would deal with any of these governments like China or Saudi Arabia.
 

Adisa

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As others have said. Newcastle aren't going on a spending spree.
 

Adisa

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:lol:They're trying to borrow $10bn using their Softbank shares as collateral? Wow, I'd run a mile from any bank that takes that deal on.
They might as well offer any collateral. Just have a look at Softbank's capital structure.
 

The Fish

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So is this happening or not?
It'll happen, it's just taking a while because of the nature of the takeover; Mike Ashley, 3 parties to the consortium, one of which is the investment arm of the Saudi regime, the piracy issue in the MENA region, plus a global pandemic. It was never going to be a quick process. The PL has to be seen to be diligent, those with justifiable opposition to the Saudis owning an English club have to be heard, those without justified opposition have to be rebuffed.
 

sun_tzu

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As others have said. Newcastle aren't going on a spending spree.
Margin Loans are typically taken out because you want to invest more...
I dount newcastle is top of their agenda - perhaps airlines, plane manufacturers, hotel chains etc that they can pick up at low prices (this could include footballers for Newcastle but If they are looking for billions my guess is they have their eyes on something far bigger than a few footballers - Margin Loans are essentially taken so you can spend more so taking one would be indicative of going on a big spending spree)
 

MDFC Manager

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As others have said. Newcastle aren't going on a spending spree.
Exactly. They may be worth trillions but liquidity is something they've lacked for some time now, and likely further exacerbated by the current environment.

Sure, they'll spend at Newcastle, but I wouldn't bet City levels of spending (adjusted for football inflation of course).
 

Cassidy

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Exactly. They may be worth trillions but liquidity is something they've lacked for some time now, and likely further exacerbated by the current environment.

Sure, they'll spend at Newcastle, but I wouldn't bet City levels of spending (adjusted for football inflation of course).
They wouldn't have been able to do that anyway due to FFP
 

Nick7

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Margin Loans are typically taken out because you want to invest more...
I dount newcastle is top of their agenda - perhaps airlines, plane manufacturers, hotel chains etc that they can pick up at low prices (this could include footballers for Newcastle but If they are looking for billions my guess is they have their eyes on something far bigger than a few footballers - Margin Loans are essentially taken so you can spend more so taking one would be indicative of going on a big spending spree)
I've not paid much attention to finances in football in a while. But do owners make that much money with sports (football) teams? They seem like they're high expense, low profit businesses
 

SambaBoy

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There's ways round FFP. If I remember correctly, I believe you have to stay under a £39m loss each year. Seems difficult if you want to spend millions on players but City used to do it then Etihad sponsored their stadium for £250m a year or something stupid so they would turn a profit. I think the PL have become stricter on this now with regards to sponsorship from companies your owner has an interest in but clubs still get away with it. Newcastle will probably spend hundreds of millions and then their training ground will be sponsored by a Saudi Oil Company for a price massively over inflated compared to it's value.
 

Cheech Wizard

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Has anyone ever failed a fit and proper owner test in the PL?
Not that I can think of but Owen Oyston at Blackpool should have been the first for his past conviction. He was allowed to be owner by the EFL because they didn't take any conduct before 2004 into account, but the Premier League do and forced him to sell his shares to his son when they were promoted to comply with the rule which he didn't and they were relegated anyway. They told him if he they ever promoted again he couldn't be the owner.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...e-blackpool-owen-oyston-fit-and-proper-person
 

Strelok

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Indeed and it isn't remotely.

Can you articulate your thoughts without the use of tenuous analogies please mate?



Of course i have a choice mate don't be so naive.

I don't have Gas central heating so i don't use Saudi Gas, I buy my fuel from an automated garage that helpfully tells me every time i fill up that the fuel i'm buying was sourced from a North Sea oil platform (FYI thats not in Saudi Arabia) so i don't buy Saudi Oil. And as previously mentioned the UK only imports 2-3 of its Oil from SA so the majority of people in the UK rarely if ever use Saudi Oil. (Note that 2-3% is just imports which makes up around half of the Oil the UK uses every year, a lot of people it seems don't realize the UK is actually one of the largest producers of Oil in Europe)

For plastic the dumbest of all these arguments see again my earlier conversation with Dave, you really need to read this.



The moral of Dave's story is even if he did use some Saudi products knowingly or not, or things manufactured in other countries with the by products of Saudi Oil. It doesn't invalidate or remove his right to express an opinion and his objection to the brutal Saudi regime buying an English football club. The fact that lots of different products are made of or with Saudi Oil and sold around the world doesn't in any way remove the right for people to express an opinion on the Saudi regime. However much the Saudi regime wishes that were the case, because unlike in SA many people around the world have the right to freedom of speech.

Do you understand now?
It seems you didn't read my post I think. I did say that of course you can have an opinion. And of course I read your Dave story.

What we're discussing is moral stuffs here. To me it's a black and white matter. No gray area.

Despite the talks of how much you pay attention to not use stuffs from them, you also agree that there's no way you can make sure that you don't use anything from them, knowingly or not. So it's safe to say we all have no choice I think?

Now back to my vegan example. You're a strict vegan and very against killing animals, morally. One day in like an apocalyptic world you have no choice but have to eat animals to survive. Can you still be against killing animals ? Isn't it wrong to be against killing them while you're eating them, even when you have no choice?

I'm Vietnamese and we generally really are against the Chinese government, or with some to the extent of all the Chinese and China as well (sorry Chinese readers). Because of some of their actions (someone has mentioned here I think) and our thousands years long quarelling history. Some of my friends say we should stop doing business with them. I find that very funny because we all use a lot stuffs from them or made by them. I mean if we can live with using stuffs from them ourselves, why can't we live with our country doing business with them ? As long as it's fair and win win I have nothing against.

However I'm very against them invested money into my country in some specific cases, but not because I morally have an opinion against them but because it's bad for my country (please google Chinese debt trap). You see the difference?
 
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stevoc

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It seems you didn't read my post I think. I did say that of course you can have an opinion. And of course I read your Dave story.
Thats weird because i was thinking the exact same thing mate. You've had the same argument from the very start that just doesn't hold up to logic yet you keep repeating it.

What we're discussing is moral stuffs here. To me it's a black and white matter. No gray area.

Despite the talks of how much you pay attention to not use stuffs from them, you also agree that there's no way you can make sure that you don't use anything from them, knowingly or not. So it's safe to say we all have no choice I think?

Life is very rarely black and white, its for the most part thousands of shades of grey. It easy to avoid not buying their major products such as Oil and if you understood the Dave story you would realize is doesn't matter even if you can't avoid using some of their products. It doesn't take away a persons right to have an opinion, once that is accepted then the whole argument falls apart.
 

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Ignoring the obvious moral issues, if money can take Man City to the top as quickly as it did, imagine what it could do to a club like Newcastle, who actually have a large fan base already and some history. Could easily be challenging for the title in the next 10 years since they aren't going to give a feck about FFP any more than Man City did.
 

Strelok

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Thats weird because i was thinking the exact same thing mate. You've had the same argument from the very start that just doesn't hold up to logic yet you keep repeating it.
Well ...

Well not exactly what I mean. Of course you can have an opinion on them. However if you're fine with using oil from them, then why are you against the money from them ? Could you tell me what is the difference ?
Life is very rarely black and white, its for the most part thousands of shades of grey. It easy to avoid not buying their major products such as Oil and if you understood the Dave story you would realize is doesn't matter even if you can't avoid using some of their products. It doesn't take away a persons right to have an opinion, once that is accepted then the whole argument falls apart.
Agreed that life is, and sometime even morality. The point is, if you can live in the grey area for Saudis things then same rule should be applied to their money imo. You of course still can have your moral opinion against them, as in my Chinese example above.
 

stevoc

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Well ...





Agreed that life is, and sometime even morality. The point is, if you can live in the grey area for Saudis things then same rule should be applied to their money imo. You of course still can have your moral opinion against them, as in my Chinese example above.
Yes of course and thats basically been my point from the beginning. And my opinion is i don't want anything to do with them. I don't buy their products and i certainly don't want them owning any football clubs especially my own.