Sheep Draft R1 - Šjor/Physio v Snow

What do you think the score will be?


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Gio

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TEAM SJOR BEPO / PHYSIOCRAT
Tactics
With both Hoddle and especially (old) Scholes we will have the the majority of the possession. The aim will be to play a mixed passing style but with emphasis on risk and chance creation (the anti-LVG method). With Johnstone providing the width on the right and Holebas on the left we can stretch the play horizontally and also vertically with Law's intelligent movement. This will create space for Hoddle, Scholes and Johnstone to play in Law to finish - he was a complete striker who could score with his head, left and right foot.


Defence:

Every good defence starts with a gk so we will do the same. Between the sticks is seargent Bert Trautmann. FWA Footballer of the year in 56 - first gk and the first foreigner(outside UK) to ever win the award. The great Lev Yashin himself believed that Trautmann and himself were the "only ... two world-class goalkeepers".
In front of him we have two italian giants, Giuseppe Bergomi and Claudio Gentile. Gentile will play on the right next to Steve Finnan, CL winner and member of PFA Team of the Year in 01/02 season. Finnan will have no attacking duties and will be focused only on defence. On the left we decided for Bergomi as we think that he offers good protection for our flying fullback with his impeccable positioning and reading of the game. Next to him is Holebas, will run up and down all game. A lovechild of Kolarov and Bale. Fantastic athleticism, fast and strong with a great left peg.


Midfield:

We will have Jaime Pacheco in a Makelele role. He had good positional sense, good work rate and was also a very professional player in his approach to football and he played in the first league till his late 36 years of age. Was European champion for Porto in 87, played 25 times for national team and went to the Euro 1984 and the 1986 World Cup. On the ball was decent and could hold his own so in this system where his job would be to keep the ball and play a simple game he would be like a fish in the water.
In front of him we have the great Paul Scholes, we all know everything there is about our ginger genius. His football brain is second to none. We will use the "older" version of Scholes, deep-lying playmaker that controlled game with ease and we expect the same. His third midfield partner is Bernd Schneider. Proper team player, unselfish and always worked hard for the team even though for majority of his career he was the best player in his teams. Great use of the ball which is probably the reason why they called him White Brazilian. Him and Johnstone would have a great partnership. The plan is to isolate the latter one 1v1 against sheep Aranzabal as often as we could and with Scholes, Schneider and Hoddle in the team that wont be a problem.
On the left is Glen Hoddle, When the team is in possession he will have a free role, he can go where ever he wants but when we lose the ball we expect him to put a shift on which isnt going to be a problem as he played in midfield before where he wasnt allowed to be a passenger.


Attack:

Jimmy (Jinky) Johnstone, Celtic's greatest ever player, will own the right wing and torment his full-back all game with his incredible dribbling ability. Going inside and outside, he can do it all. So Johnstone will be able to play in Law either by cross or pass on a consistent basis. At his peak Law scored 81 league goals in 106 games for Utd; he also scored 9 goals in 7 European Cup matches one season. He was not only a poacher though he a had a great all-round game: an excellent first touch and quality short passing. He will be involved in the build up making him more difficult to mark, not just hanging on the shoulder of the last defender. There is absolutely no way Law will not score in this set-up

ORIGINAL FORMATION:
CHANGE AT 3-3:


TEAM SNOW

Peter Schmeichel: It’s Schmeichel. It’s the great Dane, the legendary Manchester United goalkeeper who’s arguably the best there ever was. It’s really a matter of personal preference if he’s the best or not but what he did better than any other keeper was organizing his defense.


Francisco Arce: A solid right back who’s an excellent set pieces taker.


John Mensah: Nothing like a strong African in a tight shirt to put the fear into the opponent. He’d have a WC medal if not for a cheating cnut.


Aitor Larrazábal: A man with that Athletic Club fighting heart.


Massimo Bonini: Simply the best San Marinese player in the history of football. That’s not enough? He was a mainstay in Juventus’ legendary team. He took care of the midfield dirty work so other more creative players could do what they do best.


Mário Coluna: I know what you’re thinking but no, though he might be as cool this is not Lando Calrissian. Of Mozambique heritage this monster is a legend for Benfica and Portugal. 5 times European Cup finalist and 3rd place WC finalist. World XI weren’t complete without his name on the team sheet.


António Sousa: One of my many outlets for goals despite being a central midfielder. European Cup final goal? Check. WC goal? Check. Euro goal? Check. This fellow loves pressure.


Zibi Boniek: Used to playing with Platini he’ll have to make due with Laudrup instead (boohoo). A seriously impressive geezer on the pitch. One of the best players in the world for a period of time which he was recognize for.


Michael Laudrup: An elegant bastard. Played for both Real and Barca but hated by neither. His role is fairly free, occupying the advance midfielder/second striker role which he did so often for Barca, Real and Denmark he’s one of this attacks focal points.


Gareth Bale: Playing on the left is the most expensive player in the world. Hard working bugger who scores goal. Fits this team better than Real as he gets to play in his favorite role that’s normally occupied by Ronaldo. Fresh off a Euro qualifying campaign where he spearheaded Wales into the finals he’s got plenty of juice left to do the same here.


Gustavo Dezotti: Good enough to be spearheading a championship winning team in Argentina, good enough to be bought to the biggest league in the world and good enough to play in front of Maradona in the WC. Good enough for me. He only needs to press slow CBs and hang around them and sniff out goals.


Tactics: Because of my midfield being made up of players who are good at playing with the ball and hate being without it and to make up for a defense made up of solid but unspectacular defenders I’ve gone the Pep Guardiola route. Coluna will operate in the Alonso role, controlling play from the deep. Bonini will also drop back to open up for space in the middle for Laudrup and Sousa. The back 3 won’t be a typical defense. On each side there will be defenders that are comfortable on the ball in possession, someone who can break up play by getting the ball to the specific midfielders. Better teams than Sjor Bepo’s have succumbed to such tactics.
 
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Gio

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Any mods online? Poll creation permissions appear to have been removed from the peasant scum of the Caf.
 

Šjor Bepo

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i was curious how would snow line up as he has only one centerback in the squad but i have to say it, i didnt expect this......back 3 with 2 fullbacks of which one is a sheep and the only centerback that is leading them is a sheep is a recipe for disaster imo. Johnstone and Law would have a field day and im pretty sure i can outscore the opponent as on top of that Scholes was given all the tools to control the game and my defence is much better then snows.
 

Rado_N

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I've added a poll based on my vague memory of how it usually gets phrased etc, let me know if any changes are required.

Will check on your permissions.
 

Gio

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Might've been more apt to have a few of these in the OP rather than the actual formations.

In fairness Larrazabal isn't the worst sheep to be dealing with Jimmy Johnstone. First because they're both short-arses and will have similarly low centres of gravity - pretty critical when trying to keep tabs on someone who can turn on a sixpence as the old saying goes. Second because Larrazabal was a fine footballer himself with a lovely left peg. Surprised he never got capped internationally, there didn't seem to be all that much between him and Sergi to be honest.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Here is a video of my left sheep....i mean left back. This is not so you can see how good he is or me trying to convince you that he is modern version of Roberto Carlos but his position is of tactical importance so this is a "proof" that he is a good tactical fit + he looks fecking awesome in the video :lol:

Lovechild of Kolarov and Bale:
 

Physiocrat

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Key point: Hoddle and Scholes creating against a really soft defence, for Law to outwit John Mensah.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Two very flawed teams imo.

Bergomi on the left covering for a CB is not optimal far more so facing Boniek, but Johnsone vs Larrazabal in a back 3 is far more dangerous, esp with Law leading the line.

Both attacks are really great, with Snow's arguably packing a lil bit more punch. Midfields are comparable with Scholes vs Laudrup dictating play. Bale adds more threat to Snow whilst Hoddle midfield antics would add more presence and creativity to Sjor.

I'd grade it 3-2 to Sjor as a back 3 with a Sheep is going to be a too big a liability to shore up adequately.
 

harms

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Bale's favorite position is not on the left, it's n. 10
 

Šjor Bepo

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Two very flawed teams imo.
other then the centerback pair what are the other flaws in my team? Like you i also dont like our CB pair as i dont think they are a good fit, Bergomi is playing slightly out of position and i dont rate Gentile but other then that i think its a pretty balanced and well rounded team. You can argue that the quality isnt there with 2 sheeps and maybe someone doesnt rate some of the normal players that we picked but they fit tactically.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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other then the centerback pair what are the other flaws in my team? Like you i also dont like our CB pair as i dont think they are a good fit, Bergomi is playing slightly out of position and i dont rate Gentile but other then that i think its a pretty balanced and well rounded team. You can argue that the quality isnt there with 2 sheeps and maybe someone doesnt rate some of the normal players that we picked but they fit tactically.
I'm not sure why Steve Finnan should focus solely on defence and curb his usual style. With Bergomi and Gentil surely you should be able to afford a nice right flank. Holebas is the sheep and should be playing a defensive formation that doesn't tax his abilities too much. Finnan/Schneider/Johnstone could have been a very good flank, but diluted with current tactics.

And I do rate Gentile. He started off as a left back (till Cabrini took over and then switched to RB) under Trap and is better off in the left CB position in your team. See no sense in playing your better CB (Bergomi) in the worst position. He did contribute in attack unlike traditional full backs at that time. Where he is played now is his best position, but Bergomi is better. And he is a stout defender. Ignoring the criticisms of his playing style, he's been a great partner for Scirea and not any mug could do that. You should have swapped your CB pair to start with.

From what I read Pacheco comes across as a CM and not a pivot type DM as you play. Perhaps you can provide more details on him for my knowldge. Also Hoddle with Scholes seems a bit of overkill in the middle and adds a bunch of redundancy. With Scholes and a defensive partner a proper attacking winger would be better. With Holebas (attacking or not) I don't think you have a decent flank that side.
 

Šjor Bepo

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I'm not sure why Steve Finnan should focus solely on defence and curb his usual style. With Bergomi and Gentil surely you should be able to afford a nice right flank. Holebas is the sheep and should be playing a defensive formation that doesn't tax his abilities too much. Finnan/Schneider/Johnstone could have been a very good flank, but diluted with current tactics.

And I do rate Gentile. He started off as a left back (till Cabrini took over and then switched to RB) under Trap and is better off in the left CB position in your team. See no sense in playing your better CB (Bergomi) in the worst position. He did contribute in attack unlike traditional full backs at that time. Where he is played now is his best position, but Bergomi is better. And he is a stout defender. Ignoring the criticisms of his playing style, he's been a great partner for Scirea and not any mug could do that. You should have swapped your CB pair to start with.

From what I read Pacheco comes across as a CM and not a pivot type DM as you play. Perhaps you can provide more details on him for my knowldge. Also Hoddle with Scholes seems a bit of overkill in the middle and adds a bunch of redundancy. With Scholes and a defensive partner a proper attacking winger would be better. With Holebas (attacking or not) I don't think you have a decent flank that side.
Finnan is also a sheep so why should Finnan get licence to go up and Holebas not? Specially as Holebas is basically a wingback in his playing style while Finnan is much more balanced player. We decided to give Holebas the freedom as he is much better offensively then Finnan and it suits as better with Hoddle on that side. Finnan doesnt need to go up there as we think Schneider and Johnstone are more then enough, specially as Johnstone is the type of player that doesnt need support + Finnan then has much more chance of stopping Bale.

Didnt know that about Gentile, will swap them.....

From what i found he was a defensive midfielder, after we picked him we asked @Sly if he knows something about him and he said he was lesser version of Makelele so that should "confirm" his DM references as its pretty difficult to find anything about him.
Scholes and Hoddle are both playmakers but they will in different parts of the pitch with different responsibilities. We have older version of Scholes and his job is to control the game and dictate the game from deep, find the attacking talents(Johnstone, Hoddle and Law) so they can do their job.
 
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Gio

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Two very flawed teams imo.

Bergomi on the left covering for a CB is not optimal far more so facing Boniek, but Johnsone vs Larrazabal in a back 3 is far more dangerous, esp with Law leading the line.
I agree it's not absolutely optimal. That said, Bergomi has got previous playing as the left centre-half of a back three when doing a job on Rummenigge as an 18-year-old in the 1982 World Cup Final.
 

Sly

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From what I read Pacheco comes across as a CM and not a pivot type DM as you play. Perhaps you can provide more details on him for my knowldge.
Jaime Pacheco was definitely a DM or as we call here in Portugal a "trinco". He also played as left back with Pedroto and Artur Jorge but his main position was DM. Citing Inácio (also a portuguese international) "Jaime was a quality player, a defensive midfielder that combined good technic and strenght".
 

Gio

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Enough nicey nicey. Eight questions:

1. Bale and Boniek against those (sheep) full-backs? Carnage surely?
2. Law against a sheep centre-half, even a powerhouse like Mensah, surely a problem?
3. Johnstone against Arrazabal without any back-up?
4. Hoddle, Scholes and Schneider all drifting instinctively to the same patch of grass on the park?
5. Three right-backs and a left-back - what sort of defence is that?
6. Two full-backs and a centre-half - what sort of defence is that?
7. A left flank consisting solely of a sheep left-back with Hoddle in some sort of nominal inside-left-crowbar-him-in role?
8. Michael Laudrup surely has the gifts to get the better of Pacheco?
 
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Šjor Bepo

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@Gio
will answer mine and stop with posting until @Snow gets there as it doesnt feel right :D

1. Boniek yes, Bale no. Bale is overrated as feck and with snow trying to play possession based football he will get the worst out of Bale as its proven time after time that Bale isnt a top class player and he cant play at the highest stage. Still i can see him getting a better of Finnan im not delusional but its not going to be carnage like Boniek on Holebas or Johnstone on Larranzabal.
4. All three of them have different roles and all 3 are totally different type of players, dont see the problem to be honest.....
5. If you want to look all black and white then sure(even though i always considered Gentile mainly as centerback) but both of my centerbacks actually played centerbacks a lot in their careers and its not even close to the situation that snow has.
7. Well, what can you expect from a sheep? All i can say that he fits tactically but is he any good, i dont know.
8. He has and he will, just like Scholes will do the same on the opposite side.
 

Physiocrat

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4. Hoddle, Scholes and Schneider all drifting instinctively to the same patch of grass on the park?
Old Scholes will play much deeper than Hoddle plus Schneider naturally drifts to the right.

Also Hoddle is well suited to playing an inside left/free role. He played on the sides of a diamond for a lot of his career but preferred playing as No.10. I imagine him playing similarly to Totti in this position
 

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I don't really see Snow's tactics working, so I give my vote to Sjor/Physio.
 

Snow

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Sorry about being late, just came down with some sort of flu.

The weakness in the other team:

  • Poor full backs against probably the best set of wingers in the draft
  • Way too many central midfielders
  • Pacheco isn't a DMC and he was usually benched for my Sousa if they didn't play together
Larrazábal might be a sheep but he's a pretty solid one all things considered. I'm more utilizing him for his footballing skills rather than his defensive skills just like Pep does when he plays with 2 of Lahm/Alaba/Bernat in a formation like this.

The key here is that I have Laudrup, Bale and Boniek who can all break up a game on their own. Sjor Bepo's midfield reminds me of the current United one. They'll not be able to produce magic individually unless you count long range shots (which are statistically not something you can rely on).

Possession based football doesn't mean I won't get the best out of Bale. Douglas Costa isn't limited at Bayern. He shines. Bale can score with both feet, head and is stronger and faster than most footballers. Did I mention that I've got Laudrup between Boniek and Bale? Frankly I don't see any one player capable of man-marking or stopping him. If you search for him on Youtube you'll be overwhelmed by videos. Dribbling, passing, goals, other players talking about him. Take your pick.
 

Sly

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  • Pacheco isn't a DMC and he was usually benched for my Sousa if they didn't play together
Pacheco was indeed a "trinco" DMC. They were totally different players since Sousa was MC with more technic, intelligence and goal scoring threat. Pacheco was the henchman. Sousa is one of the best goal scoring midfielders in Porto´s history. If Pacheco was benched, it was purely for tactical reason and not because Sousa could replace him as DM.

Edit: Although i don´t remember much from Pacheco´s playing days (was too young), i´ve just asked my dad (has been watching portuguese football far longer than me) and he confirmed that Pacheco was indeed a DM.
 
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Physiocrat

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Sjor Bepo's midfield reminds me of the current United one. They'll not be able to produce magic individually unless you count long range shots (which are statistically not something you can rely on)
Scholes and Hoddle are in a completely different league creativity wise than any of the current Utd team. The closest to Scholes is Herrera who has aa poorer passing range and the closest to Hoddle is Mata but the latter is far more a second striker than a 10 with incredible vision; Hoddle on the other hand is much more a classic 10.
 

Snow

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Scholes and Hoddle are in a completely different league creativity wise than any of the current Utd team. The closest to Scholes is Herrera who has aa poorer passing range and the closest to Hoddle is Mata but the latter is far more a second striker than a 10 with incredible vision; Hoddle on the other hand is much more a classic 10.
They're obviously much better players but Scholes utilizes other players around him and he can spot a pass from anywhere. He won't around with the ball too much and when his passing options are mostly in the middle and to the side of him you'll get football similar to the current United side, slow and not many options.
 

Enigma_87

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Who is Snow's 12th player? That 3-3-3-1 looks very brave. 4-2-3-1 would suit him better IMO with Coluna and Bonini as holding midfielders, Laudrup in front of them, two excellent flanks and the guy that I don't know all that much as a striker.

Sjor/Physio IMO have more balanced squad, although they have issues with defence and midfield, wondering with whom to go 3-2 in this game...
 

Physiocrat

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They're obviously much better players but Scholes utilizes other players around him and he can spot a pass from anywhere. He won't around with the ball too much and when his passing options are mostly in the middle and to the side of him you'll get football similar to the current United side, slow and not many options.
The key difference between our side and the current Utd side in this regard is a proper left wing back and proper right winger (not Mata and Rojo- Depay and Lingard hardly provide great width either) which will allow the play to be spread horizontally as well as vertically since one is a decent dribbler and the other a proper jinky runner. This will allow Hoddle and Scholes many passing options. Also having a CF who has a good touch and bring others into play also helps.
 
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Snow

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The key difference between our side and the current Utd side in this regard is a proper left wing back and proper right winger (not Mata and Rojo- Depay and Lingard hardly provide great width either) which will allow the play to be spread horizontally as well as vertically since one is a decent dribbler and the other a proper jinky runner. This will allow Hoddle and Scholes many passing options. Also having a CF who has a good touch and bring others into play also helps.
Proper wing backs? Mate, Finnan and Holebas are sheeps. Holebas can't even start for Watford and Finnan was an average right back.
 

Physiocrat

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Proper wing backs? Mate, Finnan and Holebas are sheeps. Holebas can't even start for Watford and Finnan was an average right back.
I'm not saying Holebas is a great player but a good tactical fit. As you can see from the video he is a proper wing back. Finnan is focusing on defence but we have Johnstone who is a quality right winger. Left wing back and right winger will provide more than enough width and I'm a proper winger muppet
 

Šjor Bepo

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good game @Snow , it was a tough job with 3 sheeps and only 1 centerback but you did well :)
 

Snow

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Good game @Šjor Bepo & @Physiocrat. Didn't expect as many votes as I did considering the tactics and my defense. Thought you might have a bigger go at my striker as well who was pretty shit.

I do wonder why someone voted for 3-0 either way. I didn't expect my team to win but it was always going to get a goal and concede one.