I'm not sure how you're starving them of the ball though? you're not playing a possession game, and all we said was that we were going to be playing a deep line to limit Torres' ability to run in behind. Where does this stop Ronaldinho and Robben getting on the ball often?
Surveillance Draft - R1 - SkizzAnnah vs Bleezy
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
For all the talk of the defenders and forwards here, let's take a look at the actual numbers. I'm still struggling to see how Radebe and Couto stop our front three. If Sammer is playing in the defence to try and keep it tight, I'd argue the midfield battle is fairly even (if not swinging our way a bit) as Simeone and Baraja are more than capable of matching up with Ballack and Petit. Baraja on his day was probably the best midfielder in Europe for a time, and Simeone was as all action as they come. Combined with the ability of Pep sitting in his favoured deep midfield role, I'd argue our midfield is better equipped for the game at hand here. So the key question still remains on how the opposition plans to deal with our attacking threat. Radebe - Couto - Friedel is going to struggle more against our firepower with Robben and Ronaldinho running rampant, and Cavani around the box...than our defense playing deep against a forward line that isn't as prolific, and would rely on space in behind, that just wouldn't be there in this game. Gamarra and Miranda thrived by playing in the defensive line we have here, whereas I'm struggling to think of a time that Radebe or Couto would have had such attacking wing backs to cover for where they would be often isolated by the pacey wingers we have here.
CAVANI STATS
CLUB - 346 (189)
COUNTRY - 89 (37)
RATIO - 435 (226) = 0.54
ROBBEN STATS
CLUB - 369 (133)
COUNTRY - 89 (31)
RATIO - 458 (164) = 0.35
RONALDINHO STATS
CLUB - 441 (168)
COUNTRY - 97 (33)
RATIO - 538 (201) = 0.37
DEL PIERO STATS
CLUB - 585 (234)
COUNTRY - 91 (27)
RATIO - 676 (261) = 0.38
TORRES STATS
CLUB - 495 (184)
COUNTRY - 110 (38)
RATIO - 605 (222) = 0.36
CAVANI STATS
CLUB - 346 (189)
COUNTRY - 89 (37)
RATIO - 435 (226) = 0.54
ROBBEN STATS
CLUB - 369 (133)
COUNTRY - 89 (31)
RATIO - 458 (164) = 0.35
RONALDINHO STATS
CLUB - 441 (168)
COUNTRY - 97 (33)
RATIO - 538 (201) = 0.37
DEL PIERO STATS
CLUB - 585 (234)
COUNTRY - 91 (27)
RATIO - 676 (261) = 0.38
TORRES STATS
CLUB - 495 (184)
COUNTRY - 110 (38)
RATIO - 605 (222) = 0.36
Very subtle 
Love the mindgames
Love the mindgamesVery subtle
This is the best game yet I reckon. I'd have voted for either side against any of the other teams I've seen so far. Very unlucky to meet each other.
I absolutely love Bleezys defence. It's not only strong, quick and impregnable, but it provides the structure to his attack with Summer, Alves and Carlos flourishing in those roles.
Then you have a beautifully balanced side with steel, aggression, intelligence and flair. A cracking midfield will support genius either side of a goalscorer up front.
This one will come down to injuries I fear. Which is almost a shame because those are both great sides. Fair play to you both.
I absolutely love Bleezys defence. It's not only strong, quick and impregnable, but it provides the structure to his attack with Summer, Alves and Carlos flourishing in those roles.
Then you have a beautifully balanced side with steel, aggression, intelligence and flair. A cracking midfield will support genius either side of a goalscorer up front.
This one will come down to injuries I fear. Which is almost a shame because those are both great sides. Fair play to you both.
That's what I'm starting to think too
Top scorer in the South American qualifiers baby. Having missed 1/3 of the games, and it's not like we create tonnes of chances. I'd agree he is more clinical when not having all the time in the world to screw it up.His self-belief is back this season. Cavani is an interesting case. He tends to be subject to harsh comments and is generally blamed for his lack of efficiency.
With Napoli playing in counter-attack, you know he had impressive stats and was the best top scorer of the Serie A in 2013. Then, he joined PSG but had to play on the wing: despite his limited technical skills, his stats were decent. Season 16/17: 1st season with PSG as a #9: 20 goals in 20 games with PSG (including 6 goals in 6 games in Champions League) + 5 goals in 5 gams with Uruguay. In terms of stats, he's simply the #1 this season in Europe.
And you know the high number of chances he misses. Cavani is still a reliable striker in terms of physical impact (a beast, hard pressing), aerial play and stats.
On the other hand, his technical/passing skills are pretty disappointing. He's an instinctive player whose end product is poor if the number of consecutive touches on the ball is superior to 2.
I like to say he isn't born to play football but to score
What does @antohan think of Cavani here?
And he isn't just goals, he works his bollocks off. If defending a lead you could easily free up Goofy and put Cavani on defensive duties down that flank. We've had games when he has cleared the most balls from corners/set pieces, more than Godín himself. Far better than bringing on Fellaini for Mata.
Agreed, both great sides. The clincher for me is Guardiola in his element here.
Yeah that's one of the best first round midfields I've seen in a draft. Its perfectly balanced and the licence those 3 would give to Ronny, Robben and Cavani is scary.
I'd pay good money to see either of these sides play football. Watching team Bleezys build from the back would be a joy.
Two excellent sides. Both have really impressive left flanks. In Bleezy's case a pre-injury Del Piero dropping into the inside-left pocket with Carlos exploding down his outside would be something else.
Another game that I thought would be a landslide. Maybe because I don't really rate enough Aimar, Radebe, and Couto though. Than that Brad Friedel as Gk?
Too many defenders, right?
@Gio and you said my formation took up a lot of space on the pitch 
Sweet feck...some of these combinations are incredible. On Bleezy's side, I'm a sucker for Sammer in his proper libero role, and Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves given the additional protection of a back five is . Torres/Del Piero is one of those 'damned if you, damned if you don't' partnerships: play a high line and it plays right into Torres' strong suit, drop deeper and Del Piero can work his magic on the edge of the penalty area. For Skizzannah, Guardiola given such great protection is a huge plus, and Lizarazu/Ronaldinho is just a dream left wing, that would be right up there at the business end of an all-time draft IMO. I rate Lizarazu particularly highly mind. Factor in Robben on the right wing and that's a serious attacking threat.
I'm not even bothering to consider voting until the injuries are in.
. Torres/Del Piero is one of those 'damned if you, damned if you don't' partnerships: play a high line and it plays right into Torres' strong suit, drop deeper and Del Piero can work his magic on the edge of the penalty area. For Skizzannah, Guardiola given such great protection is a huge plus, and Lizarazu/Ronaldinho is just a dream left wing, that would be right up there at the business end of an all-time draft IMO. I rate Lizarazu particularly highly mind. Factor in Robben on the right wing and that's a serious attacking threat.I'm not even bothering to consider voting until the injuries are in.
Gio's 5-3-2 when he won that draft was a beauty. But it's incredibly hard to pull it off.
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@Physiocrat when does the final shenanigans take place with injuries etc?
60 mins- Couto injured, Zabeleta on
Couto off injured, Zabeleta on
For the remainder of the game, Sammer will channel the Champions League 97 final and stay back in a more defensive role to form a more flat back three to keep a more solid defensive organisation. Pablo Zabaleta comes on, using his right back experience to double team with Alves on Robben.
For the remainder of the game, Sammer will channel the Champions League 97 final and stay back in a more defensive role to form a more flat back three to keep a more solid defensive organisation. Pablo Zabaleta comes on, using his right back experience to double team with Alves on Robben.
@Raees Bleezy is hit with an injury, if it was close before surely now we have to edge it! Playing two right backs together on the right and Sammer in a defensive role from having a perfect setup before.
Injuries are in! Check above!Sweet feck...some of these combinations are incredible. On Bleezy's side, I'm a sucker for Sammer in his proper libero role, and Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves given the additional protection of a back five is
I'm not even bothering to consider voting until the injuries are in.
You are yet to vote mate, the draft god stole Couto from Bleezy while it had mercy on us.Injuries are out now if you want to reconsider! I think it pushed is ahead in a tight game!two quality teams, but bleezy's just edges it for me at this point. I don't rate Cavani which was the deciding point for me. Elber would've be perfect but I guess he clashes with Lizarazu.
I pretty much like Skizzannah flanks probably the best in the draft but bleezy's central core looks tasty.
Will keep tabs on the thread after the injuries. It's very close match.
What are your thoughts now with the injuries? Surely Neville-Miranda-Gamarra-Lizarazu with Buffon organizing and leading the defense is a better fit than having a second right back in Zabaleta.
Injuries are in!
My reaction to the injuries: We've pulled away to a narrow lead which suits us to a tee as whenever Sammer pushes forward that leaves Radebe and Zabaleta alone as CB's against a counter-attacking Ronaldinho and Robben, with Cavani pouncing to pull them apart. Overall just not a working tactic to stock up on right backs and Zabaleta doesn't have the ability as a right centre back to work at an all time level there.
Lightweight? I'd say the opposite
Agreed.
I also like the role of Ballack here and especially his passing skills: Dani Alvès, Torres and Roberto Carlos would be happy here.
I like to see players like Ballack and Gerrard with fast strikers.
Absolutely.
You're talking to a PSG fan so I know his value
AgreedSweet feck...some of these combinations are incredible. On Bleezy's side, I'm a sucker for Sammer in his proper libero role, and Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves given the additional protection of a back five is
I'm not even bothering to consider voting until the injuries are in.
Ah that's a tough one for Bleezy. Thought it would take an injury to separate these two and it has. Zabaleta and Alves are simply not going to cope with Ronny and Lizarazu down that left flank, especially not when Cavani is mercilessly attacking Zabaleta at every given opportunity.
I see a couple of late goals, the first from Lizarazu reaching the byline and clipping a smart, first time ball towards the near post where Cavani has nipped across Zabaleta and glances it past Friedel.
The second then as they threaten to do the same again, but Ronaldinho uses the decoy to jink inside, past a demoralised defender and curl a stunner around Friedel from the edge of the box.
A touch of class to finish an absolutely cracking game.
I see a couple of late goals, the first from Lizarazu reaching the byline and clipping a smart, first time ball towards the near post where Cavani has nipped across Zabaleta and glances it past Friedel.
The second then as they threaten to do the same again, but Ronaldinho uses the decoy to jink inside, past a demoralised defender and curl a stunner around Friedel from the edge of the box.
A touch of class to finish an absolutely cracking game.
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Unfortunate for bleezy there with the injury. Ronaldinho and Robben cutting in up against Zabaleta and Radebe when Sammer pushes forward could provide to be vital in a game like this.
Brutal!
Edit: mistake
Sammer wouldn't push forward, it's late in the game and he'd be disciplined to stay back and help out. Again it's hard for me to know if the subs are to close out a win or not given there's no scoreline at 60 minutes to go off. But I'm going off the assumption that going more defensive here would always open up more space for my more attacking players with Team Skizzomoss pushing on now. Tactics change and suddenly Torres has space which apparently would never have happened before.
@bleezy What a team you built mate. Exceptional quality all-round bar the centre backs and I've never felt sort of satisfied with a game looking like a draw before but that was the case here. Tactically I really think we were a counter for your team though with our four first picks being the wingers and full backs and the fifth(Guardiola) to make sure they have the service needed and the ability to bypass the midfield battle. That it was still more or less a draw just shows how great your team was though with top quality players like Aimar, Petit, Ballack, Del Piero and Torres all perfectly mashed together in a well working system.
Great team you built. Didn't really want to pick holes in any of your team because it was solid all round. Probbaly the defence needs to be upgraded but that should be easier now. I left my defensive picks too late in the draft which was a mistake. Tons and tons of attacking talent to get even in rounds 13 and 14, but the truly good centre backs are fairly few in number. Ronaldinho and Robben are a dream to have together in a draft like this. I had Falcao on my bench who I thought might have been a great fit for your attack.
Had the same feeling too. Didn't want to end up criticizing your players or tactics as they were spot on, "I think Bleezy has a flawless team bar that Radebe-Couto centre back partnership but I also think we are lucky to face him tactically and with the individual match ups here.".
What I meant in the draft thread in terms of the difficulty in picking around Sammer here wasn't the full backs but rather the right centre backs. Didn't want to argue that in the match as it would seem less genuine and more biased, but in general in these drafts any three man centre back defense will per default make the defense stronger. While in reality, like under LVG, it wasn't that simple and I'd argue it is even harder and requires even more from the centre backs than a regular two man pairing.
All three has to synch the offside traps and the offside trap will only be as strong as the worst/least intelligent defender you have and the LCB/RCB roles are very different from a regular two man pairing which is why you need someone specialized in that role. Not directed at you, just think we don't criticize it as much as we criticize say a pair of strikers, a full back-winger combo(say both prefer to cut in) and so forth.
We were quite content with Cavani to be fair. Like Downcast and Anto says he was and is a pretty nifty player in the right circumstances and I believe this is the ideal team for him.
He doesn't have to do anything but focus on his movement, work rate and scoring goals which is him at his best. He also offers important runs behind the defense that are among the best in the world and that means more space for Ronaldinho and Robben but also that Guardiola would find him from time to time through out the game.
There wasn't any perfect striker for us but I don't think a Falcao, a Torres or a Benzema would have been off point either - just different. They'd all take away something as important as what they'd provide.
Sorry man, I got distracted in the RVN thread and missed the deadline. I was edging towards you anyway but the injury would have sealed the deal. I didn't even think Zabaleta was a terrible fit stylistically for helping with Ronaldinho from RCB, but in terms of quality it definitely tipped things your way.
Great team @bleezy have seen a few teams where Sammer hasn't been utilized to the best of his ability, but you really had him in his element here, and without a proper AM in our team, he really would have thrived. Part of the reason I don't think I really mentioned him at all, as I didn't want to draw attention to him