Teden Mengi

Hughes35

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That's right, it is such a risk to play a CB with limited experience for Manutd where you don't really learn how to defend. Michael Keane, Shawcross are prime examples where you need to go to a low profile club where you have to defend week in week out, at United there will be games where you don't defend.

That's when you need concentration, composure etc and you get 3 defensive situations for example which you cannot make a mistake on, compared to a Watford where you have 12 defensive situations and can make 1/2 mistakes and get away with it because there are more players back.
We should tap into the local clubs with these younger players in my opinion.Clubs like Preston, Blackburn and Wigan would be ideal for a lad currently living in Manchester. He wouldn't need to move house, keep his family and friends around him + he could also still be around the Utd training ground / staff.
 

andersj

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That's right, it is such a risk to play a CB with limited experience for Manutd where you don't really learn how to defend. Michael Keane, Shawcross are prime examples where you need to go to a low profile club where you have to defend week in week out, at United there will be games where you don't defend.

That's when you need concentration, composure etc and you get 3 defensive situations for example which you cannot make a mistake on, compared to a Watford where you have 12 defensive situations and can make 1/2 mistakes and get away with it because there are more players back.
I also think it is a bit about the scrutiny a player get when making mistakes. Foster once said it was tougher playing for Man Utd than England in terms of expectations.

Take Phil Jones as an example. He just seems like a mental wreck when playing for Man Utd. It is easy to forget, but he was once a very talented young player. People like Capello and Ferguson really believed in him. Obviously, someone with a mentality and talent like Rio (who became 24 the year he arrived at MU) will probably be fine.
 

romufc

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I also think it is a bit about the scrutiny a player get when making mistakes. Foster once said it was tougher playing for Man Utd than England in terms of expectations.

Take Phil Jones as an example. He just seems like a mental wreck when playing for Man Utd. It is easy to forget, but he was once a very talented young player. People like Capello and Ferguson really believed in him. Obviously, someone with a mentality and talent like Rio (who became 24 the year he arrived at MU) will probably be fine.
Ofcourse, can you imagine Mengi making 3/4 mistakes in his first 10 games, he would have pages and paged of criticism on here.

Just look at Rashfords page when Martial was injured, some were calling him championship standard at best.

That can completely knock a players confidence, unless they have unbelievable mental strength.

With Jones, it seems he was never fit to have a regular place in the team, so everytime he came back he perhaps was overdoing it and making him look clumsy or getting injured.
 

Mark Pawelek

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That's when you need concentration, composure etc and you get 3 defensive situations for example which you cannot make a mistake on, compared to a Watford where you have 12 defensive situations and can make 1/2 mistakes and get away with it because there are more players back.
Mengi doesn't make mistakes. Why people are so enthusiastic about him.
 

khoazany

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I do not think he needs a season in the U23's. I would prefer sending him on loan to the championship or a team like Watford that need a CB.

He needs to play 30 league games next season. A young CB will never be ready unless they play regular football.
Yeah I were talking the same point earlier.

He already had 1 full season with the U23s, there's no need for another one. Get him a loan unless we promote him straight.

He's still 18 but that age should be taken as an advantage, not a reason to hold him back.
 

Ace of Spades

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Yeah I were talking the same point earlier.

He already had 1 full season with the U23s, there's no need for another one. Get him a loan unless we promote him straight.

He's still 18 but that age should be taken as an advantage, not a reason to hold him back.
Yeah, a good loan would be great, but if we don't find a suitable loan then I feel he will at least make his debut next season as long as he stays fit. He almost got it this season, so next season should be very important for him.

Just hope he stays injury free. Our young defenders seem to be cursed or something as a lot of them have had problems with injuries.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I don't watch our academy games week in week out nowdays since we have lot of ones being promoted and given chances especially in Europa League by Ole. However, I have no right to place my thought on our academy players that I never watch especially this guy. So how good he is? And what sort of player is he?

@roonster09 are those pictures of him playing friendly with our first team? Pretty impressive to even get into first team if yes for an 18 years old centre back.
 

KevinJoh

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yes, Mengi played a part in our first team match against West Brom
 

roonster09

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@roonster09 are those pictures of him playing friendly with our first team? Pretty impressive to even get into first team if yes for an 18 years old centre back.
Yes, he played in one of the friendly game.
 

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Is he better than Tuanzebe? Bigger talent i mean. I doubt that in future 2 our young central defenders will get a chance in first team but one could
 

Adnan

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Is he better than Tuanzebe? Bigger talent i mean. I doubt that in future 2 our young central defenders will get a chance in first team but one could
He could be better. Axel was better on the ball but Mengi looks like he will be superior aerially. Mengi is more Jaap Stam stylistically. I hope he grows a few more inches though.
 

romufc

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Is he better than Tuanzebe? Bigger talent i mean. I doubt that in future 2 our young central defenders will get a chance in first team but one could
Apparently reading somewhere, Tuanzebe was at fault at both goals.
 

Adam-Utd

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Is he better than Tuanzebe? Bigger talent i mean. I doubt that in future 2 our young central defenders will get a chance in first team but one could
I think he might potentially be yes.

He's also very athletic, good on the ball but seems more built like a defender. For a 17 year old he's pretty big already. If he doesn't have the same injury issues as Tuanzebe i'm sure he will go on to have a good career.
 

KevinJoh

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Who knows, depends on the next few years. At youth level they have been similar, at least to me, although I think Mengi had better teammates around and his team has more possession, while Axel really did not have much help in early stage. On the other hand, Axel had excellent loan spell at Villa, and did great in Championship in side fighting for promotion. Hopefully Mengi will get similar experience this or next year. He is at least 2 years away from serious first team opportunity, while Axel will make it or break it till than.
 

pascell

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Apparently reading somewhere, Tuanzebe was at fault at both goals.
It's understandable as he's not had game time in a long while. Shame for him because before the mistake vs Arsenal and the injury in the warm up for the Liverpool game, he'd looked solid. Hopefully he can kick on when we're back playing and next season he stays fit as I feel he'll be a great asset for us and will push Lindelof for the starting role.

But on Mengi, I do feel he could be better just, than Tuanzebe but I do rate Tuanzebe highly. What a great testament to our work at academy level should both Tuanzebe and Mengi make it in the first team.
 

romufc

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It's understandable as he's not had game time in a long while. Shame for him because before the mistake vs Arsenal and the injury in the warm up for the Liverpool game, he'd looked solid. Hopefully he can kick on when we're back playing and next season he stays fit as I feel he'll be a great asset for us and will push Lindelof for the starting role.

But on Mengi, I do feel he could be better just, than Tuanzebe but I do rate Tuanzebe highly. What a great testament to our work at academy level should both Tuanzebe and Mengi make it in the first team.
It is a shame because we all hoped he could kick on this season and become a starter.. instead it seems he is moved to 4th choice. It seems Bailly if fit will challenge Lindelof.

However; I feel if we can give Mengi a game or two, some PL teams might want him on loan next year.
 

Rozay

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Apparently reading somewhere, Tuanzebe was at fault at both goals.
He was certainly at fault for the one that I saw. Too early of course to say whether Mengi will be better, as Axel was also very impressive at youth level. He’s not been a youth player for 5 years though, and has done nothing of note as a senior pro. He’d be on the list of players I’d potentially sell to raise funds this summer personally. In a normal market, I reckon we could get £20m-£30m for him, which would be robbery frankly.
 

romufc

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He was certainly at fault for the one that I saw. Too early of course to say whether Mengi will be better, as Axel was also very impressive at youth level. He’s not been a youth player for 5 years though, and has done nothing of note as a senior pro. He’d be on the list of players I’d potentially sell to raise funds this summer personally. In a normal market, I reckon we could get £20m-£30m for him, which would be robbery frankly.
I think Ole has plans for Tuanzebe to be introduced into the first team. It will be worth watching how he fares till the end of the season. We could easily get £30m for him.
 

Ekeke

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He could be better. Axel was better on the ball but Mengi looks like he will be superior aerially. Mengi is more Jaap Stam stylistically. I hope he grows a few more inches though.
I've only seen a little of Mengi but from what I've seen I can't see that comparison with Stam.

Mengi is quick to cover ground and from what I've seen he has the eye for a pass of the modern CB, or can take the ball forward a bit. From what I have seen I think hes a similar type of CB to Tuanzabe an atheltic, quick with decent strength player who can get involved with play and not an out and out defender and rock at the back.
 

wolvored

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I dont get the hangup with age. We signed Jones at 19 and he went into the first team squad. Shaw at 18 and the same. Greennwood 17. If he is good enough he is old enough.
 

pascell

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He was certainly at fault for the one that I saw. Too early of course to say whether Mengi will be better, as Axel was also very impressive at youth level. He’s not been a youth player for 5 years though, and has done nothing of note as a senior pro. He’d be on the list of players I’d potentially sell to raise funds this summer personally. In a normal market, I reckon we could get £20m-£30m for him, which would be robbery frankly.
The bolded part I feel is arguable, he did get promoted with Villa and was one of their stand out players during that season. Hopefully this season is just his body adapting to a more rigorous training regime at United and next season he'll stay fit.
 

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I've only seen a little of Mengi but from what I've seen I can't see that comparison with Stam.

Mengi is quick to cover ground and from what I've seen he has the eye for a pass of the modern CB, or can take the ball forward a bit. From what I have seen I think hes a similar type of CB to Tuanzabe an atheltic, quick with decent strength player who can get involved with play and not an out and out defender and rock at the back.
That’s a weird distinction to make. Stam was lightning fast and very comfortable on the ball. Are you mixing him up with Vidic?
 

Adam-Utd

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He was certainly at fault for the one that I saw. Too early of course to say whether Mengi will be better, as Axel was also very impressive at youth level. He’s not been a youth player for 5 years though, and has done nothing of note as a senior pro. He’d be on the list of players I’d potentially sell to raise funds this summer personally. In a normal market, I reckon we could get £20m-£30m for him, which would be robbery frankly.
Where did you see their goals?
 

Rozay

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Where did you see their goals?
Some tweet knocking around. I’ll try and find it for you.

Edit: Goals


Of course, context must be applied, this was a training match, but you did ask! Didn’t look good from Axel.
 
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Rozay

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The bolded part I feel is arguable, he did get promoted with Villa and was one of their stand out players during that season. Hopefully this season is just his body adapting to a more rigorous training regime at United and next season he'll stay fit.
He did get promoted with Villa indeed (via the back door) but I don’t think his season in the Championship was particularly outstanding. Not from the microscope of being groomed (I hate that word!) to play for one of the top clubs. The likes of Ben White of Fikayo Tomori, for example, were both on loan in the Championship as young centre halves and were earning the sort of reviews that I’d expect. You can’t just be ‘part of a decent Villa team’. That isn’t typically where we shop. You’d need to be a standout at that level. One of the best centre halves in that league. I don’t think I heard Axel talked about as such. That isn’t to say he didn’t do well. But Manchester United level of ‘well’? I don’t think so.

The likes of Dean Henderson was a different animal in the Championship. We’re talking standing out at that level.
 

pascell

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He did get promoted with Villa indeed (via the back door) but I don’t think his season in the Championship was particularly outstanding. Not from the microscope of being groomed (I hate that word!) to play for one of the top clubs. The likes of Ben White of Fikayo Tomori, for example, were both on loan in the Championship as young centre halves and were earning the sort of reviews that I’d expect. You can’t just be ‘part of a decent Villa team’. That isn’t typically where we shop. You’d need to be a standout at that level. One of the best centre halves in that league. I don’t think I heard Axel talked about as such. That isn’t to say he didn’t do well. But Manchester United level of ‘well’? I don’t think so.

The likes of Dean Henderson was a different animal in the Championship. We’re talking standing out at that level.
RE the bolded, I hate that word too :lol:

He was a stand out for Villa, he also out performed and looked much more comfortable than Mings, who was bought for a big fee. I don't think CBs tend to stick out as much in Championship due to the higher volume of games they play and it's generally a grittier style of play, with a lot of defending being done. But at the time, Axel was getting great reviews and a few Villa supporters also joined the Caf at the time and spoke very highly of him. I feel no young player is United level of 'well' when having their breakout season in the senior game, mainly because they still need to improve and develop their game, as we've seen with the likes of Williams,Greenwood and McTominay this season, they're still inconsistent. But I do feel if he stayed fit, Axel will become a 1st team regular.
 

AltiUn

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RE the bolded, I hate that word too :lol:

He was a stand out for Villa, he also out performed and looked much more comfortable than Mings, who was bought for a big fee. I don't think CBs tend to stick out as much in Championship due to the higher volume of games they play and it's generally a grittier style of play, with a lot of defending being done. But at the time, Axel was getting great reviews and a few Villa supporters also joined the Caf at the time and spoke very highly of him. I feel no young player is United level of 'well' when having their breakout season in the senior game, mainly because they still need to improve and develop their game, as we've seen with the likes of Williams,Greenwood and McTominay this season, they're still inconsistent. But I do feel if he stayed fit, Axel will become a 1st team regular.
Tuanzebe was not better than Mings by any stretch of the imagination.
 

khoazany

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I think people forgot how Axel was like at youth level.

During his first year for 18s he was their captain and were part of the outstanding defence alongside Williams, TFM, CBJ etc. He was outstanding for the 23s too despite playing up for them and made the bench for LVG whilst still eligible for the 18s (before being out for the rest of the season which allowed RoShaun to breakthrough for the 23s). He lost some times through injury but still managed to get a good season on loan at Villa.

Not sure if he can make up for the lost time of injuries and he is facing tough competitions at the club but he's not even have enough times to prove himself yet. People need to chill.

Mengi seems to be much less injury prone which is a good thing, also more comfortable in the air but loled at people who think Mengi was much better. Mengi this season is marginally better than Axel was, and a Mengi last season was nowhere near Axel's first year as an U18s scholar.
 
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Adam-Utd

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Some tweet knocking around. I’ll try and find it for you.

Edit: Goals


Of course, context must be applied, this was a training match, but you did ask! Didn’t look good from Axel.
West brom account posted their goals.
Cheers lads.

The 1st seems a bit of a lucky bounce, but the 2nd one looks like he got caught out with a long ball.

As you say though hard to tell with context whether it was his bad positioning or if he was trying to cover for somebody else etc.

Anyways was just curious to see how they happened.
 

Thiagoal

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I think people forgot how Axel was like at youth level.

During his first year for 18s he was their captain and were part of the outstanding defence alongside Williams, TFM, CBJ etc. He was outstanding for the 23s too despite playing up for them and made the bench for LVG whilst still eligible for the 18s (before being out for the rest of the season which allowed RoShaun to breakthrough for the 23s). He lost some times through injury but still managed to get a good season on loan at Villa.

Not sure if he can make up for the lost time of injuries and he is facing tough competitions at the club but he's not even have enough times to prove himself yet. People need to chill.

Mengi seems to be much less injury prone which is a good thing, also more comfortable in the air but loled at people who think Mengi was much better. Mengi this season is marginally better than Axel was, and a Mengi last season was nowhere near Axel's first year as an U18s scholar.
Yeah Mengi had a massive leap forward last season! Was so impressed with his composure and looked extremely solid. Really strong physically for a seventeen year old and wasn’t bullied at U23 level by anyone that I can recall. I’m very excited to see him get some first team minutes soon
 

Rozay

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I think people forgot how Axel was like at youth level.

During his first year for 18s he was their captain and were part of the outstanding defence alongside Williams, TFM, CBJ etc. He was outstanding for the 23s too despite playing up for them and made the bench for LVG whilst still eligible for the 18s (before being out for the rest of the season which allowed RoShaun to breakthrough for the 23s). He lost some times through injury but still managed to get a good season on loan at Villa.

Not sure if he can make up for the lost time of injuries and he is facing tough competitions at the club but he's not even have enough times to prove himself yet. People need to chill.

Mengi seems to be much less injury prone which is a good thing, also more comfortable in the air but loled at people who think Mengi was much better. Mengi this season is marginally better than Axel was, and a Mengi last season was nowhere near Axel's first year as an U18s scholar.
I certainly don’t, I just don’t really care so much. He hasn’t been a youth player for 5 years. If anything, I think people remember too well how good he was 5 years ago. Because if they didn’t, I doubt there would be nearly as much optimism and expectation for him to just claim a starting spot based on anything since then.
 

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Hard to see what happened in the 2nd West Brom goal because it just cuts in where theres clearly a duel from the attacker and Tuanzebe and the attacker gets the ball. We dont know if he was put into that situation by a teammate's mistake, or if they had an equal chance to win the ball etc.
 

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Guess I got it wrong then, my bad but I was under the impression that Axel wasn't poor whilst on loan with Villa.
My impression from watching some of the games on tv and keeping half an eye on what the Villa fans were saying at the time was that both Mings and Tuanzebe impressed in that team and that it was a good partnership.

For what it's worth I think Mengi looks like an impressive young player. He was more aggressive and effective in the air than Tuanzebe was at the same level. Maybe that means Mengi was a small bit more effective as a defender?

But Tuanzebe had Ferdinand vibes going on - just classy in carrying the ball and distribution. Really good defending one on one with an attacker. I always thought he could get to a really top level eventually once he learned to cope with and be more aggressive against real physical-type forwards. You'd hope that he gets a good season in injury-free to see him fulfill the potential. If they both came through properly we'd be very fortunate.
 

Rozay

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Guess I got it wrong then, my bad but I was under the impression that Axel wasn't poor whilst on loan with Villa.
He wasn’t poor. I just don’t think ‘not poor’ is enough. Many on this forum were demanding he begin the season as first choice centre half, seemingly based on nothing more than ‘proud tradition of playing kids’. He wasn’t a standout player in the Championship to me. Mings is the one that was clearly too good for that level. Ben White is on loan from Brighton at Leeds and all the top clubs want to sign him. ‘Not poor’ isn’t enough for Axel, but to me, it is the best way to describe much of his senior career (when he hasn’t been injured). I thought he was very good under Mourinho in his first season in the seniors, but since then - I think it’s fair to say he’s shown nothing that would suggest he should be starting games for Manchester United. If a team offered us £30m, it would have to be considered for my money, and tradition aside, probably would be.

Despite being 5 years older, I don’t think he’s put that much daylight between himself and Mengi in terms of short term prospects of playing centre half for the first team. Nobody can say he’s made the strongest case in the last 5 years at all. That may well be largely down to injury; but it is what it is, and football is harsh. I think ‘not poor’ is the best he has managed as a centre half in senior football personally. Funnily enough, he was a lot better than not poor playing right back and centre midfield for us under Jose, but that was a long time ago. With Mengi’s rapid progress, and the fact that he’s not actually banging on the door, I’d take a good offer for him. He’s older than De Ligt, Upamecano, Konate and Kabak. Players develop at different rates, but he doesn’t look that level of defender who we can’t afford to let go.