The Narcostatelands

[Rams]

Over the past 15 years or so The Netherlands has become the battleground of drug cartels (nicknamed “Mocro Maffia” because the cartels are mostly run by Dutch of Moroccan ethnicity). Holland has been Europe’s main illegal drugs distributor for some decades now and thanks to a lack of foresight from the Dutch authorities and a scandalous lack of funding of the police force (austerity and all that) the Dutch authorities have lost complete control of the situation. The chances are that the coke you’re snorting in London or Dublin has been distributed via The Needlelands. This has come at a cost, the amount of blood being spilt (members of the cartels as well as innocent bystanders) as result of wars between the cartels is horrifying. Yesterday was a new low when a lawyer of a key witness against the leader of one of the most notorious cartels was shot dead in front of his home in broad daylight, a direct attack against Holland’s rule of law. The kind of thing you’d expect in (for example) Mexico, not the Netherlands.
So is it fair to say The Netherlands has become a narcotic state? Or should we relax and take a chill pill?

 

[Rams]

Oh feck, how do I edit the title?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I was wondering what Nacro was

 

[Organic Potatoes]

I thought this was going to be another Trump thread.

 

[UweBein]

It is a sorry state of affairs, definitely.
There is still hope though that those two will be convicted?

 

[André Dominguez]

Cartels are the main culprit, but they are only allowed to exist due to corruption. A cartel can't "grow" if they don't have help from local authorities / political offices. They would have their assets confiscated very often which is bad for business.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

This kind of goes against the argument that legalising weed would eliminate the black market for harder drugs.

 

[Rams]

This kind of goes against the argument that legalising weed would eliminate the black market for harder drugs.

Weed isn’t legal in Holland, it’s decriminalized. There is a very big difference.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Weed isn’t legal in Holland, it’s decriminalized. There is a very big difference.

Ok, I was under the impression that it was legal to sell at least within the Amsterdam city limits? If it is illegal, then banks cannot do business with shops and cafes that sell pot.

 

[Red Defence]

Weed isn’t legal in Holland, it’s decriminalized. There is a very big difference.

What is the difference?

 

[André Dominguez]

This kind of goes against the argument that legalizing weed would eliminate the black market for harder drugs.

Who did that kind of arguments? People don't really understand how those thing works.

Most of hard drug users start by peer pressure: a lot of people around them are doing it. This is a similar logic to tobacco.

 

[Rams]

What is the difference?

I’m don’t know the exact legalities etc, but you’re only allowed to own so many plants and carry max 5 grams on you. Basically all the supply to coffee shops is part of the illegal drug trade.

 

[André Dominguez]

What is the difference?

Google didn't reach that side of the globe, I see

It's simple: if you are caught with a small amount of weed / hashish, you can get away with a slap in the wrist.
If you get caught with an amount above the law limits, you get detained. Now, two things can happen depending on the quantity you have

1. If it's not that big and it's the first time, you'll get a compulsory rehab.
2. If it's a large amount, but it's the first time you get caught, you'll get a suspended sentence
3. If it's a large amount, but you've been caught before, you'll probably will get jail time.

 

[VorZakone]

It is fair to say Holland has become a narco state. Most notably Amsterdam's underworld has become too big for law enforcement to tackle. Then you have the Brabant region which has a very big drug underworld as well.

 

[Ødegaard]

I read Necrostatelands.
I thought you guys had gotten dead serious.

 

[Red Defence]

I’m don’t know the exact legalities etc, but you’re only allowed to own so many plants and carry max 5 grams on you. Basically all the supply to coffee shops is part of the illegal drug trade.

Thanks. So all the coffee shops in Amsterdam have been openly breaking the law since decriminalisation was introduced? Might as well be legalised if no-one is going to uphold the law.

Google didn't reach that side of the globe, I see

It's simple: if you are caught with a small amount of weed / hashish, you can get away with a slap in the wrist.
If you get caught with an amount above the law limits, you get detained. Now, two things can happen depending on the quantity you have

1. If it's not that big and it's the first time, you'll get a compulsory rehab.
2. If it's a large amount, but it's the first time you get caught, you'll get a suspended sentence
3. If it's a large amount, but you've been caught before, you'll probably will get jail time.

Thanks for explaining.

 

[Rams]

I read Necrostatelands.
I thought you guys had gotten dead serious.

Freudian slip?

 

[André Dominguez]

It is fair to say Holland has become a narco state. Most notably Amsterdam's underworld has become too big for law enforcement to tackle. Then you have the Brabant region which has a very big drug underworld as well.

It's too big because they let them grow. You can't build a big corporation like a cartel without a lot of people "closing their eyes".

There's quite a good movie that explains the social part of building a criminal institution named "Once upon a time in America".

 

[Ainu]

This kind of goes against the argument that legalising weed would eliminate the black market for harder drugs.

I've never heard that argument and I don't understand why anyone would say that. Why would people looking for hard drugs settle for weed? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[KanieKaned]

This kind of goes against the argument that legalising weed would eliminate the black market for harder drugs.

I am pretty sure nobody ever said decriminalising weed would stop someone buying a bag of cocaine or any other harder drug ever. To stop all you need to legalise all and regulate manufacturing and improvise a taxation process. Which likely never will happen with harder drugs. Legalising weed just cuts it out of being illegal and frees up police time to focus on more serious issues. Pot smokers don't exactly cause a risk to society compared to someone off their chops on coke or meth.

What is the difference?

Decriminalization means you won't be prosecuted once certain conditions have been met. If memory serves me correctly for how it works in Amsterdam the coffee shops buy their weed from small time growers. As a rough barometer if you are a grower and grow less than 100 plants to sell to said coffee shop you are somewhat overlooked in the grander scheme of things (Coffee shops still essentially have to get their weed through the back door per se as cultivation is still an illegal process). Anything over and you are considered a mass producer. The shops themselves can only sell minimal amounts per customer and if stopped and searched for whatever reason anything over a small number of grams is no longer considered personal use.

 

[George Owen]

More competition means cheaper prices... Let them fight (Relax and take a chill pill). Civilians are hardly a target in these wars, unless authorities force them too.

Legalization is the only way to eliminate the underworld cartels. (Their business gonna be taken over by legal cartels, "corporations")

 

[VorZakone]

More competition means cheaper prices... Let them fight (Relax and take a chill pill). Civilians are hardly a target in these wars, unless authorities force them too.

Legalization is the only way to eliminate the underworld cartels. (Their business gonna be taken over by legal cartels, "corporations")

Funny you say that because unfortunately civilians have been murdered in the Netherlands. Several civilians have been mistaken for a target and got murdered in the past years. Then a key witness' innocent brother was murdered, and 2 days ago that same key witness' lawyer was murdered.

The Dutch underworld has become more brazen and brutal than probably ever before.

 

[George Owen]

Funny you say that because unfortunately civilians have been murdered in the Netherlands. Several civilians have been mistaken for a target and got murdered in the past years. Then a key witness' innocent brother was murdered, and 2 days ago that same key witness' lawyer was murdered.

The Dutch underworld has become more brazen and brutal than probably ever before.

How many civilians specifically? (A judicial case is exactly what I mean by authorities forcing them to defend themselves)

They wouldn't do it otherwise. Messing with civilians is bad for business.

Why dealing with alcohol, opioids, sugar, etc, is legal and not other drugs? Let them do their shit in peace I say.

In Australia/New Zealand everybody knows where the dealers house is, even cops, but they don't do shit (unless the dealer sells to minors). They let people be happy. They know Maori people working the fields love to smoke their weed, everybody is happy, no stress, etc.


If shit is really getting out of control, then legalization is the only way to go.

 

[VorZakone]

How many civilians specifically? (A judicial case is exactly what I mean by authorities forcing them to defend themselves)

They wouldn't do it otherwise. Messing with civilians is bad for business.

Why dealing with alcohol, opioids, sugar, etc, is legal and not other drugs? Let them do their shit in peace I say.

In Australia/New Zealand everybody knows where the dealers house is, even cops, but they don't do shit (unless the dealer sells to minors). They let people be happy. They know Maori people working the fields love to smoke their weed, everybody is happy, no stress, etc.


If shit is really getting out of control, then legalization is the only way to go.

5 civilians have been murdered in the last few years. They were mistaken for the actual targets.

So while these criminals are not willingly targeting civilians, their amateurism/brazenness has resulted in civilians being killed nevertheless.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Netherlands has become one of the key distribution chains in the illegal drug trade. It has only just started to suffer the consequences and things will get much worse.