Today analysis : All sorts of nr.6 in a 433/451 formation. From the “runner with the ball “ Frenkie De Jong to “The master of the passer “ Andre Pirlo

LuckyScout78

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Today I will analyze and categorize all CM nr.6 in a 433/451 I have been observed. I will not us further back in time than with Andrea Pirlo. From his Ac Milan period start 2001.

And to make it clear. Those top top CDM/DM/nr.6 had and have really high basic football skill. Like dribbling and running with the ball to passing. But some of those have theirs best strength, area and skill which is better than other areas, others basic skills. And some of them had a really high complete and all round basic skills.

I will categorize them in 4 main categories and type of nr.6.


  • The “runner with the ball “ nr.6
  • The “passer of the ball “ nr.6
  • The “ all rounder “ nr.6
  • The “Warrior and destroyer “ nr.6


1. The “runner with the ball “ nr.6 :

Those CM/nr.6 are really really good dribbler and running with the ball. It is theirs strength and what they are and were best known for. They use to run a lot/transfer the ball over a long distance before they pass the ball to theirs teammates. We can call that they “really energetic “.

In this category I will put :

+ Stanislav Lobotka from Napoli : Anguissa/nr.8 – Lobotka/nr.6 – Zieliński/nr.8

+ Frenkie De Jong from Barcelona : Gavi – De Jong – Pedri



2. The “passer of the ball “ nr.6 :

+ Andre Pirlo , AC Milan and Juventus : Gattuso – Pirlo – Seedorf

+ Sergio Busquets. Barcelona : Xavi – Busquets – Iniesta



Those 6 are really good with passing. Always knowing where they have theirs teammates. Spreading the passing around.



3. The “ all rounders “ nr.6 :

Those nr.6 and cm players were scoring really high all basic skills with the ball. Really good and precise passer, long power shoots and running with the ball. High energy and drive here too.

+ Steven Gerrard. Liverpool : Alonso – Gerrard – Garcia

+ Later with Jordan Henderson for Liverpool : RCM/8 – Henderson – LCM/8

+ Rodri for Manchester City : De Bruyne – Rodri – B.Silva



4.The “Warrior and destroyer “ nr.6 :

Those CM have and had theirs best strength in the defensive. The warrior and destroyer of opponent attacks. Break up attack and start transition and counter attack.

+ Javier Mascherano. Barcelona : Xavi – Mas – Iniesta

+ Carlos Casemiro. Real Madrid : Modric – Casemiro – Kroos

+ Fernandinho. Manchester City : De Bruyne – Fernandinho – Gundogan



There you have the 4 main category. Like above. Those are top top football players and CM players. Train and practice a lot. Nearly every day. They have really high basic ball skills. But some have theirs best strength and area and skill they are more specialist in.

+ Like we can compare to another sport to make it clear. Like in Alpine sport. Where they have 4 genres : Downhill, Super G, Giant Slalom and Slalom.

And as we know in that sport. They had Slalom specialist and the opposite is Downhill specialist. Then we have all rounders.

Of course like nr.6 cm player. A Downhill performer can do and compete in Slalom genre too. But most probably not doing well as a slalom specialist. Same for a slalom specialist in Downhill.



Like from. Let we say the white color ----> Black. Between white and black there are many grades of white and grey colours

For nr.6 CM players I will put like this in a line. From the runner of the ball to the right side of the line, the passer.



1 “Runner” --------------------“The allround “-----------“The destroyer”---------------“The passer “





There we can see. The “runner with the ball” on the left side. And not opposite, but most far far from them is the “passer “. Between that we have the all rounders. Most complete nr.6. On the highest level of football of course.

Then the nr.6 “Destroyer “. Theirs strength is not dribbling, neither top passer. Those “destroyer and warrior “ will keep it simple. Like Casemiro will pass it Modric, Kroos or the closest teammates ahead of him.



And to Manchester United new cm player in Kobbie Mainoo. In which category I will put him. If he is playing as a nr.6 in a 433 formation?

So far he has just playing as a more creative cm role in a double CM duo. With Casemiro, McTom or Eriksen. But as a nr.6 in a 433 formation and set up.



Kobbie Mainoo :

+ He is not a destroyer.

+ He is not a Frenkie De Jong type of nr.6. Then has to be a lot faster with the ball. Runner with the ball on the highest speed.

+ He is not a specialist as a “passer” neither. Maybe in the future

But right now I see and will put Mainoo as all round nr.6. Not a complete nr.6. Like the big Stevie G. The big general. Ex general cm player. The drive, energy and engine of Steven Gerrard was just crazy. On Durazell battery. World class drive and energy, while he matched the energy level of Jurgen Klopp. Same energy level use to attract each others.



So in the end. A argue and joke between the “runner with the ball “ and “the passer of nr.6 “

Which skill and method is most effective? Run with the ball from A to B to deliver the ball to your teammates. Or pass a long ball from where you stand to B point (your teammates) ?



The argue :

The runner with the ball : “ Of course running with the ball is more effective and more safer “

The passer of the ball : “ No buddy, when my passer/ball reach the point B/my teammates. I can sit down and take an espresso and finish it. And I can see you are still running with the ball. “

The passer mean the ball will reach point B before the runner will reach point B. To deliver the ball.



Yes, it can be faster. But like we all know. We are all difference. CM player, football player and same as human. Imagine to command the super energetic cm players like Gerrard, Fr De Jong and Lobotka to pass the ball all day long.

Some players and peoples are just more energetic than others. So if you are just contributing to that your team creates and score more goals, that leading to winning the football matches. That is all that matters.

If you are able to pass 1 or 2 opponents players from CM area. Easily. What not do that. But in some situation in football. You know how to pass the ball and when to run with the ball/dribbling. It is about decision making.



Sum up. Those are the 4 main cm/nr.6 category. Then between the left and right side. From white to black. There are many difference grades of colors and type of players.

No cm and no players are 100 same or copy of another cm player. But they do have similar strength or best strength.



So I hope you have enjoy my analysis of nr.6 cm players in a 433/451 formation



And a quiz and a question for mine readers.

At this moment. In which of the 4 category will you put Joao Neves from Benfica and why?

Like this as a nr.6 in a 433 formation and set up : RCM – Joao Neves – LCM

Which nr.6 is Neves most similar too?
 
Is Frenkie de Jong significantly quicker with the ball than Kobbie? Or does he just get more room to glide into in La Liga?
 
Curious what you think about Mainoo's best position. For me, he's not really a #6 so comparing him to these guys is unfair. He might evolve into an FdJ type player if he improves athleticism a bit more (still very young, he'll pick up some speed in the next few years) but for me he's similar to interiors such as Bernardo Silva, Pedri, Iniesta etc. Not really a #6.
 
adexkola said:
Someone put this in ChatGPT and come back with a concise summary please
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The text provides an analysis of central midfield (CM) players in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 formation, focusing on their roles and skills. It categorizes these players into four main types: "runner with the ball," "passer of the ball," "all-rounder," and "warrior and destroyer." Each category exemplifies different strengths and playing styles. The author discusses notable players fitting each type, such as Stanislav Lobotka for the "runner" category and Sergio Busquets for the "passer" category. The text emphasizes the uniqueness of each player while acknowledging similarities in strengths. Finally, it poses a quiz regarding Joao Neves from Benfica, prompting readers to categorize him within the described framework based on his playing style.
 
Moby said:
The text provides an analysis of central midfield (CM) players in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 formation, focusing on their roles and skills. It categorizes these players into four main types: "runner with the ball," "passer of the ball," "all-rounder," and "warrior and destroyer." Each category exemplifies different strengths and playing styles. The author discusses notable players fitting each type, such as Stanislav Lobotka for the "runner" category and Sergio Busquets for the "passer" category. The text emphasizes the uniqueness of each player while acknowledging similarities in strengths. Finally, it poses a quiz regarding Joao Neves from Benfica, prompting readers to categorize him within the described framework based on his playing style.
Click to expand...

:lol: cheers
 
Thanks for write up, more complicated than I look at football but guess game has progressed (maybe)…

I don’t think Mainoo fits one of the four categories clearly because (as has been said for over a year now), still not obvious what his best role/position is… difficult when he’s good at lots of things and still so young/learning.

(The Klopp/Gerrard comment (the big Stevie G … :nono:)… I thought Gerrard and Klopp were ships that passed in the night?)
 
diarm said:
Is Frenkie de Jong significantly quicker with the ball than Kobbie? Or does he just get more room to glide into in La Liga?
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De Jong’s thing is rapid verticality: he gets the ball out of his feet and carries it 30+ yards with ease over and over at his top pace; if you were to liken it to anyone, it’d be a Kaka’ but instead from the #6 running up to where the #10 would be, like a baton carry in a relay. De Jong is the best in the world at that and carries the certainty of purpose that a team can build its tactics around his consistency in doing so. Mainoo has no such claim to his game - you don’t know what he will opt to do when receiving deep as in, he’ll shuffle and make space and then decide whether to use the ball or go on a run with it. With De Jong, the moment there’s an opening, he’s going to drive into it.

It’s not to do with La Liga as he has been doing it for club and country before he got there. In answer to your question: in tight, compact spaces before the opening to run into emerges, Mainoo is faster and more agile, but if it’s touches to open the space to go forward, it’s Fenkie all day (over anyone), so it is a pick your poison. What De Jong does generates the most panic because of its certainty; if he breaks the press, you have to be prepared for a run that goes potentially from his box to your own, which is worth its weight in gold.
 
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I think this is a good subject because the #6 has changed a lot this century and has broken down into more schools than it used to have. CM has become the lesser role in terms of development in the interim.
 
horsechoker said:
If you aren't at least taking notes can you even call yourself a football fan?
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Hey horsechoker. I assumed you’d have blocked me after what me and @Sly were saying about you the other day. Nice to see you haven’t.

I can appreciate things like a defender who can do more than just defend, and a midfielder like Scholes who makes the game look easy. But I’d find it exhausting watching football the way some do
 
Thank you for this thread. Interesting stuff.

If I has to categorise our current (deeper) midfielders, I'd say we have:

Eriksen - Passer
Casemiro - Destroyer
McTominay - Destroyer/All-rounder
Mainoo - All-rounder
Amrabat - Passer

I think, if there's an attribute they lack, it's having someone who has the ability to carry the ball over a long distance. Actually, from the options above, statistically, McTominay has the most ball carries (1.55) per 90.

Therefore, if I was ten Hag, I'd be wanting to bring in a player who excels at exactly that, which would suggest why ten Hag was, and still is, so keen to bring in De Jong, who is in the 98th percentile for progressive carries (3.61).

Assuming we continue with a 433 next season, I'd want us to to look at going with something like:


Number 8/10 (Passer) - Number 8 (Running with the ball)
Number 6 (All-rounder)​

I think, if you look at the top teams, they rarely have a destroyer, especially at the base of midfield, as emphasis, more often than not, is on playing out from the back. Rodri, Rice, Kamara, Bissouma, MacAllister/Endo, etc. All of the aforementioned players are good on the ball, and are pivotal to the way their team build play.

For me, this is why I prefer Mainoo at the base of our midfield, as he seems to be better in possession in comparison to Casemiro. I'd then have Bruno as the passer and a new signing, who excels at running with the ball as the other 8. De Jong would still be my dream signing, but players who comes close in regards to ball carries is Kheprem Thuram and Man Utd Kone.

As for Neves, he'd probably go into the all-rounder category like Mainoo. He's pretty good at everything, and you'd only imagine that will improve as he gains more experience.

Also, if I was to critique your post, I'd say you were being slightly harsh on calling Fernandinho as= destroyer. He was easily an all rounder, who was pretty good at everything. Actually, his passing, especially through the lines, was very underrated.
 
diarm said:
Is Frenkie de Jong significantly quicker with the ball than Kobbie? Or does he just get more room to glide into in La Liga?
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From what i have seen so far of Mainoo. Yes i think De Jong is quicker and more explosive in the first metres.

Mainoo before joining first team, playing for the youth. I guess was a bit quicker in the first metres and more raw.
Special in the first matches for the first team. I think he was more composure and calmer with the ball. He hasn't show much of the "youth, wild and raw Mainoo from the youth.

Growing up, becoming adult and got lesser wild, free, raw and instinct youth abilities.

Growing up and becoming boring. Mainoo has to keep the young energy and spirit while learning from the adult world. Best from to world. But still the engine, drive, top guts and intensity get to be here. Youth or adult/senior football.

Structure and plan are fine. BUT the freedom to express yourself get to be there. And what we connect with freedom with? Of course. Youth and the child in you.
 
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