VAR and Refs | General Discussion | Forest go into meltdown

[cjj]

I'm not sure you know what irony means.

"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result."

For example, people wanting to abolish VAR when it would in fact make the 'offside' decision even more offside, considering it wasn't VAR that disallowed the goal.

Since you're on a Utd forum, I'm not sure you need to be reminded, but you robbed Utd of points with that nonsense decision when Romero handled it against Utd.

Not sure I need to remind you of all of the VAR mistakes you've actually benefitted from (like a keeper wiping out two attackers flapping at thin air). That is far less subjective than the ever-morphing handball rule, where in one CL final Sissoko's armpit is handball (imagine if Liverpool were on the other side of that), or the one where they changed the handball rule when Dier had a penalty against him versus Newcastle, or the disallowed goal versus Sheffield United, where Moura was penalised for handball when they kicked the ball at his arm when he was on the ground.

Fact is, as bad as VAR can be, it's not as bad as the game was without it (Pedro Mendes, or the Nani goal versus Gomes), but it's absolutely ironic that people are talking about getting rid of VAR because it didn't correct the linesman's on-field decision.

 

[Jeppers7]

Not going to pretend I can remember all of those, but the fact that you think the offside decision in the Arsenal match was ‘horrific’ tells me a lot. I remember that one. It was offside. If Utd had tried to make a formal complaint about that they would rightly have been laughed at and the referees body would have politely, and correctly told them to feck right off. As they would with every team in the country. I’d wager if I went through your list with a fine toothcomb I’d find a lot of examples like that. Tight decisions, controversial even. Decisions where you could point to another game and another ref and find an inconsistency. That’s just football. Happens to you. Happens to every team. You just remember it when it’s you.

The funny thing is that you can’t remember them. But you remember a random incident for Wolves. Bet you don’t remember the similar incident involving the wolves keeper?

What makes you certain Garnacho was offside beside your ABU bias?

 

[OldSchoolManc]

If the reports of EPL referees being employed by states that own clubs in the EPL are true, then there should be a full investigation and suspension of said referees.

We already know that Barcelona are being charged with corruption involving referees and it is the very same people that are in the infrastructure of Manchester City.

Along with the 115 charges being forgotten/brushed under the carpet with help from our government (who don’t want to sour relations), this presents itself as corruption on an international scale.

An independent inquiry has to happen as there are far too many questionable things going on in the English game.

I don’t trust what is happening in 90% of games

 

[NicolaSacco]

So if I’m right what you’re saying is that every decision given against us and not given for us has been correct? At least in the mind of the refs head. I’ll let you think about the issues there.

The same wolves team we played and the same keeper who played for them that game was involved in an identical situation last season, with the same outcome, no penalty, also no appology. No outrage from media. In fact not a fecking mention of it.

There’s at least four penalties we should have had this season that I’ve not heard mention of or seen replays of since. Yet we get a stonewall one against Forest given and again there’s a two day inquest, on a penalty that is a penalty.

You come across as bitter, Abu but blinded by it.

Ha ha, I think there’s only one person blinded by anger here. It’s interesting though, that you have the capability to look at another poster and claim immediately that you see an inherent bias which affects their thinking. And yet if someone mentions that that same analysis can be applied directly back at you, you find it inconceivable.

A better question might be, if I trawled through the message boards of every team in the league, do you think I’d find posters from each and every team who felt hard done by by refs, and could provide multiple ‘examples’? I’m certain I could. With every single team. It’s bias. It’s an easy concept. I can’t understand why you think this simply can’t apply to you and your own team.

 

[Jeppers7]

"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result."

For example, people wanting to abolish VAR when it would in fact make the 'offside' decision even more offside, considering it wasn't VAR that disallowed the goal.



Not sure I need to remind you of all of the VAR mistakes you've actually benefitted from (like a keeper wiping out two attackers flapping at thin air). That is far less subjective than the ever-morphing handball rule, where in one CL final Sissoko's armpit is handball (imagine if Liverpool were on the other side of that), or the one where they changed the handball rule when Dier had a penalty against him versus Newcastle, or the disallowed goal versus Sheffield United, where Moura was penalised for handball when they kicked the ball at his arm when he was on the ground.

Fact is, as bad as VAR can be, it's not as bad as the game was without it (Pedro Mendes, or the Nani goal versus Gomes), but it's absolutely ironic that people are talking about getting rid of VAR because it didn't correct the linesman's on-field decision.

How many incidents can you remember that went against us? You’ve got a great memory for those that we’ve had. Jesus some of those go back 15 years. So you must be able to list plenty the other way?

 

[NicolaSacco]

The funny thing is that you can’t remember them. But you remember a random incident for Wolves. Bet you don’t remember the similar incident involving the wolves keeper?

What makes you certain Garnacho was offside beside your ABU bias?

Er, because VAR did the same analysis with the same technology that they will have done thousands of times this season. I’ve no doubt it’s very unlikely to be 100% perfect, due to frames per second issues, although to what extent neither you nor I know.

 

[Jeppers7]

Ha ha, I think there’s only one person blinded by anger here. It’s interesting though, that you have the capability to look at another poster and claim immediately that you see an inherent bias which affects their thinking. And yet if someone mentions that that same analysis can be applied directly back at you, you find it inconceivable.

A better question might be, if I trawled through the message boards of every team in the league, do you think I’d find posters from each and every team who felt hard done by by refs, and could provide multiple ‘examples’? I’m certain I could. With every single team. It’s bias. It’s an easy concept. I can’t understand why you think this simply can’t apply to you and your own team.

That’s not the point I’m making…but well done. The fact is that when decisions go for us we get whoppers like yourself reminding us of them 15 years later. Yet there’s literally about a dozen equally incorrect game changing decisions that you have no idea of gone against us this season.

What I’d like to see is the same level of awareness, both ways when it comes to us. A balanced debate.

Tell me about the wolves keeper when he took a player out while going for the ball. What was your thoughts on that?

Where was our appology when var made out that Casemiro strangled a player, when he didn’t.

 

[Jeppers7]

Er, because VAR did the same analysis with the same technology that they will have done thousands of times this season. I’ve no doubt it’s very unlikely to be 100% perfect, due to frames per second issues, although to what extent neither you nor I know.

Yeah and if that is us benefitting from it then you will sing a different tune.

 

[caid]

Er, because VAR did the same analysis with the same technology that they will have done thousands of times this season. I’ve no doubt it’s very unlikely to be 100% perfect, due to frames per second issues, although to what extent neither you nor I know.

Some of the examples are better than others.
I think the initial complaint with that one was that they drew line from wrong body part of arsenal player and used a weird angle. I think they overturned it too which with a decision that tight is somewhat questionable. I'd write that one off personally.
The level of discussion around somewhat questionable decisions in our favour vs stonewall obvious decisions not being given is kind of shit to be honest.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Yeah and if that is us benefitting from it then you will sing a different tune.

You will have already benefitted from it though. Who hasn’t? It’s probably the most common reason VAR is called upon. And it’s frequently based on absolutely tiny margins. And I can’t remember mentioning it in the past, which doesn’t exactly help your point.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Earlier at the Asian Games in Hangzhou, a quarterfinal between Japan U24 and North Korea U24 today:

https://x.com/nocontextfooty/status/1708483004002091425

Most people say the referee was too lenient on what should have been a red card offence. Your take?

 

[RuudTom83]

If it is true that referee teams are also officiating in Saudi during the week (is that right?) and then returning to officiate in England for the weekend. Then they need to start putting rules in place as their fitness and concentration are already suspect. Adding travel on top of that is not a recipe for great officiating.

 

[Sylar]

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I didn't see the game... Is their any context around this incident!? Cos that's stonewall.

This is what I posted earlier

Watching forest v Brentford. Turner had the ball, got closed down and kicked the player and not the ball.
No appeal but to me a clear foul.

This is what var should be used for. If you give those it basically doesn't Invite players to roll around from contact

The brentford player got up straight away and the ball was cleared off the line.
This wont get headlines, because it will be dominated by Liverpool. However this could have implications towards the bottom half too. This is why players need to over exaggerate contact.

 

[Jeppers7]

You will have already benefitted from it though. Who hasn’t? It’s probably the most common reason VAR is called upon. And it’s frequently based on absolutely tiny margins. And I can’t remember mentioning it in the past, which doesn’t exactly help your point.

All I’d need to help my point is a scroll of your post history. It is what it is.

 

[arnie_ni]

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I didn't see the game... Is their any context around this incident!? Cos that's stonewall.

Came to post the exact same clip. Thats a horrendous decision.

 

[NicolaSacco]

All I’d need to help my point is a scroll of your post history. It is what it is.

Nice glib one-liner. Doesn’t make sense though, unfortunately. There’s little I can do about your state of denial I’m afraid.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

I can't find Liverpool's statement on VAR undermining the integrity of the game where the misapplication of rules allowed them to remain in the FA Cup...

 

[Jeppers7]

Nice glib one-liner. Doesn’t make sense though, unfortunately. There’s little I can do about your state of denial I’m afraid.

What is clear is that a scroll through shows that you constantly dismiss anything that goes against us, yet feel that Havertz should have been awarded a pen against us.

Absolutely clear bias.

 

[NicolaSacco]

What is clear is that a scroll through shows that you constantly dismiss anything that goes against us, yet feel that Havertz should have been awarded a pen against us.

Absolutely clear bias.

At this point I’m genuinely not convinced that you can read, love!

 

[NinjaZombie]

"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result."

For example, people wanting to abolish VAR when it would in fact make the 'offside' decision even more offside, considering it wasn't VAR that disallowed the goal.



Not sure I need to remind you of all of the VAR mistakes you've actually benefitted from (like a keeper wiping out two attackers flapping at thin air). That is far less subjective than the ever-morphing handball rule, where in one CL final Sissoko's armpit is handball (imagine if Liverpool were on the other side of that), or the one where they changed the handball rule when Dier had a penalty against him versus Newcastle, or the disallowed goal versus Sheffield United, where Moura was penalised for handball when they kicked the ball at his arm when he was on the ground.

Fact is, as bad as VAR can be, it's not as bad as the game was without it (Pedro Mendes, or the Nani goal versus Gomes), but it's absolutely ironic that people are talking about getting rid of VAR because it didn't correct the linesman's on-field decision.

That Nani goal was pure comedy.

It's understandable that you can remember bad decisions that go against you after all these years. I still remember Adebayor scoring with his hands at Old Trafford. Or Henry being miles offside when he scored against us at Highbury 02/03. Those decisions have long been forgotten and a big part of why that is is because United got favourable results in both games anyway. Hargreaves scored the winner with a freekick at Old Trafford and we got away with a 2-2 draw at Highbury on the way to the league title.

And history would've been very different if Paul Scholes wrongly called offside goal counted and we knocked Mourinho's Porto out of the CL.

I'm one of those who wants VAR gone, despite being an advocate for technology before. That's because we're seeing all the cons of having VAR (waiting for them to confirm goals before proper celebrating one) with little of the pros of it. We're still seeing them get things wrong, the inept cnuts.

 

[Red_toad]

Klopp is going to go crazy about the officials after this one. What we need to start doing as well.

All part of the game, they’ll now get numerous decisions in their favour. Whilst we get clear handballs and hacking down on our players not punished.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

The this massive outcry will mean Liverpool will probably get loads of soft or questionable decisions their way in their next few matches

Just watch wait and see Liverpool getting decisions their way.

 

[B20]

If it is true that referee teams are also officiating in Saudi during the week (is that right?) and then returning to officiate in England for the weekend. Then they need to start putting rules in place as their fitness and concentration are already suspect. Adding travel on top of that is not a recipe for great officiating.

That's one thing. The more obvious is the compromise of ethics when you literally have refs on the payroll of the owners of a premier league club.

 

[Jeppers7]

At this point I’m genuinely not convinced that you can read, love!

Deflect - I’m convinced that you know exactly the point, know the proof is there. You could just go to a sad little Ipswich Town message board but does it satisfy you more to be ABU?

 

[Slevs]

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I didn't see the game... Is their any context around this incident!? Cos that's stonewall.

Attacker punished for not going to ground and feigning injury. If he goes to ground and stays down, the keeper gets a red card and his team gets a penalty. Another VAR mistake...

I remember something similar happened with RvN when he was here. Very very obvious shirt pull from behind him inside the box that would've taken down any man. Ruud tried to pull away from the shirt pull but couldn't score. Ref waves play on, if he goes down there, its an instant penalty.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Deflect - I’m convinced that you know exactly the point, know the proof is there. You could just go to a sad little Ipswich Town message board but does it satisfy you more to be ABU?

Whatever it is that’s making you so angry in life, pal, no need take it out on me!
I’m still reeling from the fact that you went all that way back, in an effort to prove your point, and then completely screwed up by not even reading it properly! There’s simply no accounting for that.

 

[Heinzesight]

Just watch wait and see Liverpool getting decisions their way.

It would have to be the Scousers who this happens to wouldn’t it…feck me…this will rumble on forever, it’ll become part of Liverpool folklore and yes, even more favourable decisions for those loveable bastards.

 

[Oranges038]

This is what I posted earlier


The brentford player got up straight away and the ball was cleared off the line.
This wont get headlines, because it will be dominated by Liverpool. However this could have implications towards the bottom half too. This is why players need to over exaggerate contact.

It's just a 50/50 challenge. I don't think that's worthy of a penalty, keeper has already started to swing for the ball before the player comes through and knocks it away. There's nothing he can do there to stop his kicking motion and he makes little contact with the player.

Fair play to Wissa for not rolling round like a baby.

 

[christinaa]

It has to be them doesn't it!
All hell will break loose now and they'll be helped in any way possible.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It's just a 50/50 challenge. I don't think that's worthy of a penalty, keeper has already started to swing for the ball before the player comes through and knocks it away. There's nothing he can do there to stop his kicking motion and he makes little contact with the player.

Fair play to Wissa for not rolling round like a baby.

I mean, you've literally just described a foul.

Also "little contact" is underplaying a bit - we know there was more then enough contact to send Wissa off his feet - even though he obviously tried to stay on his feet!

 

[bstb3]

It has to be them doesn't it!
All hell will break loose now and they'll be helped in any way possible.

There is a certain grim inevitability that they will get one in their favour over the next few weeks & that there will be somehow less of an outcry. The call against Arsenal was awful, and they are rightly kicking off about it as all teams should be, but yeah. It was always going to be one against them to really start the ball rolling.

It says as much though about how their club is run versus ours that they are robbed badly once and they fight back, where we get it multiple times and don't. Then we have the nerve to question the lack of fight in our players. It's a club mentality.

 

[sullydnl]

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[Vault Dweller]

Wait, so you all agree it's onside but when Liverpool complain about it because it's so blatant they're being childish and laughable? Tribalism is bloody daft.

I hate them but they were absolutely shafted on Saturday and fair play to them with the statement. Too often the last wee while ludicrous stuff has happened in our games and feck all is said, I wish we would do it.

 

[BootsyCollins]

It's just a 50/50 challenge. I don't think that's worthy of a penalty, keeper has already started to swing for the ball before the player comes through and knocks it away. There's nothing he can do there to stop his kicking motion and he makes little contact with the player.

Fair play to Wissa for not rolling round like a baby.

I feel like this is what most freekicks and pens are based on. Two players goes for the ball and one wins it before the other one so he ends up tackling him instead of taking the ball.

 

[dwd]

Wait, so you all agree it's onside but when Liverpool complain about it because it's so blatant they're being childish and laughable? Tribalism is bloody daft.

I think people are more pissed because they know what the consequence is going to be compared to if any other club did it.

 

[Rob]

It seems that we finally have answered the question "can a loss be a win?"

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

It seems that we finally have answered the question "can a loss be a win?"

Of course it’s a win in the long run as Liverpool will now benefit from every decision here on in.

 

[Oranges038]

I feel like this is what most freekicks and pens are based on. Two players goes for the ball and one wins it before the other one so he ends up tackling him instead of taking the ball.

I think a mistimed tackle is different to being ready to kick the ball and a player running right across you mid swing. There's no way the keeper can stop his motion in those fractions of a second.

 

[golden_blunder]

So essentially we are seeing VAR officials admit that it’s human error causing mistakes.
so why do we persist with VAR? go back to making referees as professional as possible. Refs could have the ability to see something on a replay if they want but not directed by other parties to do so. Other parties off the pitch - take them out of the equation.

 

[Remember the geese]

I think a mistimed tackle is different to being ready to kick the ball and a player running right across you mid swing. There's no way the keeper can stop his motion in those fractions of a second.

It's a clear pen. Accidental or not.