I think Antony's might have been given by VAR (utlimately there was knee contact) - I don't think Dalot's would have been.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion | Forest go into meltdown
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I recall your stance at the time, which is fair then. The brutally annoying thing is the inconsistency with the ref's decision making on stuff like this, especially when it's the same ref applying different tolerance to contact. How can the same official think those two last night breach the threshold for a penalty and not the Gabriel one on Hojlund earlier in the season? Baffling. Would be interested to see him watch them all back and explain his thoughts.
It says they know there is no point complaining and, in the case of Dalot, not wanting to be sent off again. Both of those come into the vague area which makes VAR so pointless - if not given it doesn't overule the ref. If given, it doesn't overrule the ref if there is even the slightest contact (ignoring the requirement of consequence). In it's current incarnation and implementation by the mates club it's pointless.
It’s clearly C (though only calling them crap is being generous… they’re fecking awful).
Football had three options… not use VAR at all, use VAR like rugby (a discussion between them and ref on key decisions to help get to the best end decision) or VAR with the clear and obvious rule (which is grey in itself).
They chose the last one, the worst option. If you asked someone who hated football and was desperate to ruin it as a sport and spectacle, they’d choose the one we’ve got… where ref can make a decision that VAR wouldn’t have given but VAR doesn’t tell the ref to review it with the benefit of better angles.
Basically the opposite of what rugby does… successfully. Refs, VAR, Webb, PGMOL all morons, not fit for purpose.
And Jarred Gillet (ref last night) was ironically VAR ref for the Arsenal wrestling on Hojlund and didn’t tell ref as deemed it not enough contact.
Yea, agreed. They have managed to make the product worse with the way they have implemented it, all just to protect their egos.
The Cucurella one is probably less contentious, but either I'm going mad or I'm seeing Antony trying to pull out of the challenge and Cucurella dangling his leg. The contact is so minimal, and he's going down if no contact is made anyway.
Madueke is actually a pretty clear dive the more you watch it. Contact was on his foot a couple of strides before, and then he just throws himself to the ground as Maguire comes over and he runs out of options? Like.. if he fell when the contact was made, then OK. But he doesn't even seem to lose balance, fall out of stride, or anything from that contact?
Yeah I agree United probably get at least one, probably both of those at OT. Don't think Chelsea would get either.. hence the frustration for one set of fans always in these horribly soft calls. I can't really imagine a neutral sitting at home and thinking either of those are pens.
I hate to bitch about the officiating, but lets be real for a moment.
There is no way you can tell me that the ref didnt show biased officiating during the whole match.
The first penalty was soft, the second was even worse.
How many fouls did he not call that were blatant fouls? Even the free kick on the outside of the box late in the game was a poor call.
where in the hell did he get 10 minutes from? The first half had 4 goals and only 5 minutes of added time. Then after the penalty and final goal ... he blows the whistle?
An absolute load of shit and he should not be calling any premier league games.
Please investigate this cnut!
There is no way you can tell me that the ref didnt show biased officiating during the whole match.
The first penalty was soft, the second was even worse.
How many fouls did he not call that were blatant fouls? Even the free kick on the outside of the box late in the game was a poor call.
where in the hell did he get 10 minutes from? The first half had 4 goals and only 5 minutes of added time. Then after the penalty and final goal ... he blows the whistle?
An absolute load of shit and he should not be calling any premier league games.
Please investigate this cnut!
I think the ref was really poor last night. When you step back and look at some of the general fouls he was giving Chelsea, like the Maguire one on Jackson at the edge of the box, it was like it was his first game reffing senior football. The crowd influenced him, you could even see with the second penalty, he didn't give it straight away he did this weird slo mo, think and then point. If he's seen it, give it straight away, if you have doubts, allow VAR to intervene. As replays show for the second one it was a dive.
Antony's penalty was about as soft as they get, Cucurella is going down before the contact even starts but VAR wouldn't overrule that one. Again though, even from where he was, it looked soft as feck so why would he not just wait for VAR to give it if he waved play on?
Don't think there's any bias or conspiracy, just a poor level of officiating in the game. Like referees don't have a conspiracy against Wolves either. The refs are human, and mistakes are fine. Seems we've been on the bad end of some really contentious calls this season though, but it will even out I am sure.
However, I would have given both of those pens in real time last night. The frustration comes with the added layer of VAR looking at both, and you're watching and thinking "hmm, that doesn't look like a pen". Like what's the barrier for 'clear and obvious'? I remember the one that was overturned in our favour against Arsenal. There didn't look to be much difference in that decision vs both those pens last night?
There's definitely more of a reaction for calls in our favour though. Like, you'd notice even from a subtle perspective, in the post match on BBC the other managers comments will be there if there's a contentious call, whereas often times this season EtH's complaints won't be referenced. However, I also think he doesn't complain enough, so that's a contributing factor. I really don't think much of that is actively in the refs head in the heat of the moment either way. Unconscious bias, at the very most I'd say.
Heard ref is a Liverpool fan and I can completely see his actions taking the wind out of a team that has to turn around and play Liverpool this weekend.
Top 5 is pretty much done with at this point ... and while some of the teams performances (Brentford) are on the team... last night was on the official. I saw at least a dozen fouls not called, but Chelsea were given the whistle when the wind blew. Pitiful and the Premier League needs to acknowledge the officiating this year. Its shite all the way around.
What the hell is VAR for ... a joke... an absolute joke!
Top 5 is pretty much done with at this point ... and while some of the teams performances (Brentford) are on the team... last night was on the official. I saw at least a dozen fouls not called, but Chelsea were given the whistle when the wind blew. Pitiful and the Premier League needs to acknowledge the officiating this year. Its shite all the way around.
What the hell is VAR for ... a joke... an absolute joke!
You can easily be coerced into a narrative without thinking your even take a part look at the state of the world it’s happening everywhere, very naive to try and put it into 3 options.
We already know for a fact there’s a clear conflict of interest in premiership refereeing they are being shipped over to work for city’s owners and being paid by the same people.
There’s a current generation of people supporters in all jobs and locations that love nothing more then when United lose and the media knows this as we live in a world where the main way media gets its revenue is online clicks, quality of content is now an after thought because you get paid no matter.
You’re watching the premier league right infront of your eyes slowly trying to change the FFP rules to a “rich man’s tax” which clearly benefits one type of ownership massively.
Yet when someone dares mentions bias be it conscious or unconscious you all find it impossible to believe.
which is it?
Which is what? What's your question?
There is always bias. You can say you are not going to be, but lets be real. If you are a fan of the team... your vision is skewed. That is why that official isnt allowed to call Liverpool games if I am not mistaken.
Hell even the announcers are biased. They do a good job hiding it, but its always there mate... like herpes.
None of the penalties were correct. Hard to take.
I've said this so many times that we need our club to make some statement. This will keep going but at least club should be making some sort of official complaint about decisions going against us. It is becoming parody. Year after year and it is just getting more ridiculous. At the same time you see other clubs at the top just getting decisions for them and if they once or twice get something against them it is pretty much protest marches for weeks.
We all have been talking about performances from players, managers, tactics and so on but that doesn't mean anything when you get decisions against you. We could have at least 15 points more by now but here we stand with one more game when you wonder what is going on. You just get sick of this sport. Despite all technology out there and despite them showing what is happening they still make those decisions. I wonder why don't any of our former players bring this up in studios. Put it into the light.
We all have been talking about performances from players, managers, tactics and so on but that doesn't mean anything when you get decisions against you. We could have at least 15 points more by now but here we stand with one more game when you wonder what is going on. You just get sick of this sport. Despite all technology out there and despite them showing what is happening they still make those decisions. I wonder why don't any of our former players bring this up in studios. Put it into the light.
I'm sure there is bias, but whether that's the reason a ref makes the call is a silly thing to say. Conspiracy peddling it is unhelpful, we should just be talking about process which leads to consistency in decisions. It's never going to be 100% consistent, but you can certainly get it much better with better processes.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Arteta had his meltdown and has had much improved decisions. Klopp launched an all out attack, set Liverpool's media dogs off the leash on refs and one ref in particular, now refs are terrified to go against them.
We may currently be extremely shit, but we're still one of the most high-profile gigs a ref can get every weekend. We need to hurt the egos of these cnuts and complain about them, get one or two of them unofficially banned from reffing us. See how they like reffing Forest vs Burnley instead of United vs X.
We may currently be extremely shit, but we're still one of the most high-profile gigs a ref can get every weekend. We need to hurt the egos of these cnuts and complain about them, get one or two of them unofficially banned from reffing us. See how they like reffing Forest vs Burnley instead of United vs X.
This is really interesting. Given it’s been established that the conversation between ref and VAR booth is recorded, United should be asking to hear the conversation around the giving of that second pen to clarify whether Riley’s conditions were met…surely they had to be to give that penalty!? You just know that the club won’t bother though…we’ll roll over and let these clowns get away with it like always…
That is horrendous…nobody could be that incompetent. How the hell is a Liverpool fan getting to decide crucial, and likely game defining, decisions in games involving their age old bitter rivals…it boggles the mind!
Oh look Jev is in here once again disagreeing with everyone claiming we clearly weren’t hard done by. I for one am shocked.
The ref didn't give the Walker one, he gave the Chelsea ones, the context and criteria for VAR is different, you can't compare them under the current VAR rules, now the rules maybe wroong but that's a different issue
The problem is not absolute bias (except Oliver maybe), the problem is refs are very often in double minds to give or not give a penalty, to give a red card or not. The shitstorm if they give United something favorable is way too high. So they would give it against United to be safe.
The opposite with Liverpool. Media would eat them alive if they miss something against Pool.
Having said all that, it is not like 100% of the decisions will come under the above theory. There will always be some decisions that we get, but the situation is no longer "everything will even out at the end of the season". It does not.
I literally bumped the thread during the match to complain about the first penalty.
Anthony Taylor reffing the game on Sunday 
Seen other fans online saying it’s great appointment for usAnthony Taylor reffing the game on Sunday
have they seen our record under that clown!!It's clearly the level of scrutiny refs get from any decisions in United's favour vs those they give against.
Howard Webb still gets the "United fan" treatment despite giving some absolute howlers against United. It had clearly impacted his decision making towards the end of his career.
Given the choice between an easy life or being called a cheat in the national and social media and calls for you to get demoted in your job, most people would choose the former.
The biggest issue with VAR is that football fans are so inherently biased that 2 perfectly sane people can watch the same incident, completely disagree what the decision should be and both be absolutely convinced that they're correct.
If there's more of one side than the other then making the decision that appeases them is the easiest decision to make.
Spot on and adding to that, most don't actually know the rules either
re: Chelsea game, in real time I thought both were penalties so I understand why the ref gave them, when you see the replays it's not so clear cut, in the Antony one there is contact but he still dived, that's not a mistake, it's the ref being conned, is that a clear and obvious error, I couldn't say
The Dalot one, you can't really tell clearly if there's contact or not, again it's a dive but Dalot's reaction suggests he know's he's caught him and the ref has been conned again
There’s definitely an agenda set at the start of each match…you’d need to be naive not to see it and feel the tone of it. It was so odd to me that Casemiro can flare up over what he saw as a deliberate elbow on a young lad in his team and yet the director didn’t deem the possible incident as replay worthy…despite the usual obsession with multiple replays when it’s a Bruno “dive” or something they’ve decided Case has done…
Its this simple. Every single time a ref gives a big call in favour of united it gets a level of scrutiny unheard of for any other club. You basically have fans of every other club in england suggesting bias and cheating. Give it against united, and you have uniteds fanbase complaining and thats it - people have a laugh together and call them deluded.
The best example is the stoppage time penalty call between liverpool and city. Sky Sports gave it about 10 seconds post match. There is no planet where a 97th minute potentially title deciding call between united and liverpool, going uniteds way, gets brushed over. Fergusons era genuinely seemed to traumatise people.
All that said, I do believe Oliver and Taylor have an active anti united bias, and after midweek Gillett has to be considered. To give both of those, incredibly soft calls, is mind boggling. And if you rewatch the game or even a 20 minute spell of it, the flow of the game was sent in chelseas direction by the way he reffed it.
Rodri on Mateta not a pen.
Hojlund on Rodri was a pen.
Inconsistent refereeing times and times again
Hojlund on Rodri was a pen.
Inconsistent refereeing times and times again
ETH needs to start bringing up these non pens that only seem to be given against United.
Other managers complain about decisions and seem to benefit from it, I want him to do the same.
Other managers complain about decisions and seem to benefit from it, I want him to do the same.
We won’t get these referee decisions because we have a soft and no backbone manager. Once Arteta and Klopp voice their opinion, you never see the decisions given against them again. Ten Hag is scared of a fine.
Mike Dean just said the penalty against Dalot should not have been given. We have lost so many points over stupid referee/VAR decisions.
How many instances do Man City get away with, that Man Utd wouldn’t? It’s because Referees think TWICE before given something as they know Pep will be on their case. It is all subconscious decisions, and football is all about fine margins.
Mike Dean just said the penalty against Dalot should not have been given. We have lost so many points over stupid referee/VAR decisions.
How many instances do Man City get away with, that Man Utd wouldn’t? It’s because Referees think TWICE before given something as they know Pep will be on their case. It is all subconscious decisions, and football is all about fine margins.
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I can not see the video in our location
I can see why the ref gave it
I can't see why var didn't overturn it based on what we've seen this season, the consistency annoys.
I understand the Antony one, this one however reeks of var not wanting to go against their ref buddy
I can't understand that Wolves offside call.
Why would he be afraid of a fine?
Stupid decision
And … who cares? Worth it to get some attention on it.
Like this is….
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