You can’t polish a turd
Was Louis Van Gaal our best "coach" in the post Fergie years?
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He was cooking something. He just never had the Ayers he really wanted. Delay was not really ready for the big league and Do maria never wanted to come to united.we were dominating teams and playing Attracting football. The problem was the intensity...too Slow and lots of backward passes. I don't think his signings was that bad. Sneiderlin, Rojo, blind....A lot of technical players. The fans and Mou availability made himlose his job.i still think he was a far better coach than Mou and Ole. Of we had givenhim more time, maybe we would have been at city level now
Mou did worst. Even Ole was no better.
We won the FA cup under him. Or was it the league cup?
The thing is he fell out with the DOFs and senior figures at the clubs he worked at.
LVG actually had a drama free tenure at the club because he nobody meddled with him. But it's a double edged sword
FA cup thanks to Messi Lingard
What do you mean post Fergie. Louis van Gaal is the best coach of all time in any sport ever. Just ask Louis van Gaal.
..waking up from his dream anytime now
can’t believe that there are still LVG groupies running around. It was a failed experiment- he turned all the fans off and that only leads to one way
He created football don’t you know
So he asked for players that weren't available and you think that it's an argument in his favor? Also Kroos was contacted by United before LVG, he vetoed it while Kanté wanted to move to London.
It's interesting there are two opposing visions of his time where in one Van Gaal was a failure for X Y Z reasons, and one where he was really onto something but was cut short too early.
I actually believe OP is right and the dissenters are too as i've seen a lot of the reasoning like player recruitment/club structure brought up and they are quite valid.
Yes some of the football ended up being snore inducing and extremely dull which will turn off a lot of long-time match going fans that pay decent wedge to rock up and be entertained, and yes some of the signings really missed the mark but he was also operating under the stewardship of prime Football Director Ed Woodward & Matt Judge which needs massive consideration.
As some have pointed out in here already his system is actually the closest to Pep's positional system and we did play some scintilating positional pass & move stuff sometimes when it actually came together but the biggest problem is it just did not come together often enough and I do put that down partially to our available players not being up to it. Juan Mata was great under Van Gaal though and that is no suprise considering. He gave us Juanfield that was glorius.
Van Gaal blooded Rashford albeit in fortuitous injury circumstance and guided him well, I think enough people in here have said it to be honest that it doesn't need hammering home more but if Van Gaal was given more time after winning that cup and was able to keep exploring the market and secure his #1 targets to realise his vision of how we should be playing football, I definitely believe he could of been more successful than he was in the end. Not saying he was perfect but we certainly left something on the table there that we seem to of picked back up with ETH after a few years of counter-attacking football.
Even Di Maria who ended up snaking off gave 3 goals 10 assists in 27 games he was not a flop at all and had some fantastic games. Depay we gave up on a bit early too as it's shown there was a player there and he had a good link-up with Luke Shaw, the dressing room was just not right with a fading Rooney with Carrick & fletcher the last "culture leaders".
Not sure he actually vetoed it he was away with Dutch squad and Kroos has said in interview he just didn't hear concrete info back from united before Madrid sniffed the situation and called him. Maybe being charitable to LVG there but would be odd considering his judge of talent and also later bringing it schweinsteiger that he would turn his nose up at Kroos.
I think this plays into his post-sacking statement he has made since aswell really about us being a commercial and marketing club not a serious football club as many foreign european people in the game probably imagined us to be on the inside. LVG is oldschool of course he has seen us in our pomp and he was a big manager so those names with our club probably didn't seem like a stretch. Zlatan made the same observation about expecting grandeur in footballing operation but shock and suprise at our insular "small minded" approach i think he put it as. Didn't cover themselves in glory but certainly victims of the time too without doubt.
LvG's philosophy of " your opponent cannot score whilst you have the ball" underpinned everything he did as a manager/coach. In one game we had 46 passes before we scored.
LvG's recent reported comments in Qatar, to a Dutch journalist who complained of the style of play he had the Netherlands playing was... " if you are bored ...go home"...it says it all. Louie did, and still does things 'his way'.
You could argue that the underpinning philosophy of 'keeping the ball' is tactically correct, if you eventually do something with it; but becomes exceptionally boring to watch, especially when at United he didn't have enough players who were good enough to execute that idea.
He was respected and admired by many players and as other posters have mentioned brought out the best in some of our players. He probably was the best Manager we had since SAF, but he was also something of a 'yesterday's' man, who has retired twice previously, and found himself hauled back into harness... pity his long-suffering wife who he apparently promised to take on an around the world Golfing holiday after he left United... wonder did he ever keep his promise?
LvG's recent reported comments in Qatar, to a Dutch journalist who complained of the style of play he had the Netherlands playing was... " if you are bored ...go home"...it says it all. Louie did, and still does things 'his way'.
You could argue that the underpinning philosophy of 'keeping the ball' is tactically correct, if you eventually do something with it; but becomes exceptionally boring to watch, especially when at United he didn't have enough players who were good enough to execute that idea.
He was respected and admired by many players and as other posters have mentioned brought out the best in some of our players. He probably was the best Manager we had since SAF, but he was also something of a 'yesterday's' man, who has retired twice previously, and found himself hauled back into harness... pity his long-suffering wife who he apparently promised to take on an around the world Golfing holiday after he left United... wonder did he ever keep his promise?
That game against WHU still hurts me. If Lingard and co. didn't bottle it like cowards we would finish top4, no CL for City.
Vangle was boring but he had a long term plan. And I would take boring anytime than trashing by any club under the sun.
Is he only manager who does not have any big deafeat ?
Vangle was boring but he had a long term plan. And I would take boring anytime than trashing by any club under the sun.
Is he only manager who does not have any big deafeat ?
Well said mate, accurate too.
I can't posts links or media yet but I would direct you to clip of him from last weeks netherlands training media session where infront of all the cameras he is offering his wife out a trip to their hotel room. Seems they are well taken care of
. That along with him hugging and posing for picture with a new journalist at a press conference, he hasn't lost a step. Do miss his entertaining shenanigans.Altho Erics' "eh" & "clear" is humorous in its own right too.
From the perspective of whether or not I enjoyed watching the football under LVG the answer is no, as ever the what if's exists but purely on a enjoyment level, LVG would be behind Solskjaer and ETH, probably on par with Mou
How's that a tough question?
Sorry, but I just can't see how Van Gaal was our "best coach" of the post-Ferguson era. His recruitment of new players was horrifying and he got rid of some decent players. Was it not LVG who declared that his captain shall play no matter how poor his form is? Was it not LVG who imposed tumescent tactics? Was it LVG who was confronted by his own players for disgusting training methods?
Did Van Gaal provide us amusing moments? Of course he did. The simulated dive in front of the fourth official was a classic, possibly watched on YouTube a century from now by some historian researching the sudden downfall of United after the Ferguson era, a downfall to which Van Gaal contributed.
His tactics are what did us in more than anything else. Yes, the goal is lifting trophies...but at what cost to the game itself? His tactics were hideous and for that reason alone, and there are others, Van Gaal should never be mentioned as a "best" of anything in the context of Manchester United.
Did Van Gaal provide us amusing moments? Of course he did. The simulated dive in front of the fourth official was a classic, possibly watched on YouTube a century from now by some historian researching the sudden downfall of United after the Ferguson era, a downfall to which Van Gaal contributed.
His tactics are what did us in more than anything else. Yes, the goal is lifting trophies...but at what cost to the game itself? His tactics were hideous and for that reason alone, and there are others, Van Gaal should never be mentioned as a "best" of anything in the context of Manchester United.
Those Van Gaal days were bizarre.
Wiped out the squad including anyone who played wide, then moaned we didn't have enough wide players.
Said Rooney would always play.
Tried to fit in Van Persie, Rooney and Falcao into the same line-up.
Bought Di Maria, then tried to mess with his position.
Made out he was a champion of youth, when in reality he was forced to by injuries and wiping out the squad numbers.
Barely ever scored in the first half.
Pros - we controlled games in a way we probably haven't since him .
Battered City and Tottenham in an incredible 5 game purple patch.
Wiped out the squad including anyone who played wide, then moaned we didn't have enough wide players.
Said Rooney would always play.
Tried to fit in Van Persie, Rooney and Falcao into the same line-up.
Bought Di Maria, then tried to mess with his position.
Made out he was a champion of youth, when in reality he was forced to by injuries and wiping out the squad numbers.
Barely ever scored in the first half.
Pros - we controlled games in a way we probably haven't since him .
Battered City and Tottenham in an incredible 5 game purple patch.
Dreadful days with a few highlights. But mostly false dawns, from the big name signings who flopped, including himself. Yesterday's manager.
It's taken us until now with Ten Hag to get a guy on the up.
Some of his methods were bizarre, he thought he can induce total control SAF had, but Manchester United proved it's a different dynamic past 2013. Winning FA Cup is always a positive sign no matter what and definitely helped Mourinho ride that wave with bigger effect for a bit.
He was in the wrong place despite his intentions and efforts. Blatant mistakes like signing Darmian will always be taxing on his vast football history.
He was in the wrong place despite his intentions and efforts. Blatant mistakes like signing Darmian will always be taxing on his vast football history.
This guy has encapsulated it in a nutshell. It essentially boils down to who post ferguson had us playing the best. Some might prefer the sitting back counter attack style of Mourinhoball and Oleball, others may prefer the more proactive, dutch positional & possession passing game that Van Gaal was a proponent of in his career, which he ultimately failed in fully bringing to fruition here - with many reasonable caveats why it didn't materialise.
I agree it was tumescent at times but he had a vision for how we should dominate matches and it did work at times. Ten Hag's style is not so far flung from this albeit he is the more modern man with a fresh spin on established ideas.
LVG - Possesion
Mourinho - Park the bus counter attack
Ole/Mckenna - counter attack (he did do it v well tbf)
ETH - Possesion with modern pressing principles
So we have come full circle to having a man with a plan, just a better one than LVG had time or the ability to implement.
But he is a champion of youth. Tyler Blackett, Paddy McNair, Marcus Rashford and probably 2-3 more that I can't remember got their starts under van Gaal. Players that otherwise would never have got a game. Blackett I'm 100 % sure would have become a National Team player if van Gaal had stayed for 2 more years. Same case as Holger Badstuber who was promoted above experienced pros Lucio, Demichelis and van Buyten. The youths give 120 % when the manager back them like that.
To be fair, Darmian was fairly highly regarded prior to signing for us, but ya that signing didn't work out.
Blackett, McNair and Borthwich-Jackson should never have been close to action except for first round of league cup type fare. They got near it because Van Gaal stripped the squad down to minimum levels, then got caught out.
Same up front. He didn't see something in Rashford and boost him forward, he was simply caught out by Rooney then Martial being injured. The fact Rashford took his chance doesn't mean it was planned at all.
Not in the media he wasn't.
The week he signed a journalist was saying did anyone really think he'd be starting for us in 2 years.
Spot on - he wasn't.
I don't think Darmian managed more than a handful of games for us in which he played 90mins and didn't get booked. Breath takingly average.
Definitely the best manager post SAF, without a shadow of a doubt. Or how would SAF have said, no doubt about that.
Agree with many on here that, while I thought he was a decent game day manager, his secondary management was terrible. Recruitment of players was bizarre, his man management was non-existent, and he always had an extra heaping of blame for everyone other than him. I have no regrets...
Sorry, but this bit is silly. LvG was boring as hell, but he clearly shipped out loads of senior players to give youth players a chance. That was the entire idea and it's part of why he's always been a "champion of youth".
He didn't need to know Rashford was going to be great to create an environment where young players are naturally going to get chances to prove themselves.
Are you trying to suggest he shipped players out to bring in the likes of McNair, Blackett and Borthwich Jackson?
Or that Rashford getting a look in was pure luck due to injuries?
I'm suggesting that if you believe that if you give youth players a chance that enough of them will surprise you to make it worth it, then cutting down the squad isn't some massive misstep that was covered over by luck, it's a strategic choice to put faith in the youth system. LvG also clearly believed he could instruct youth players to play the way he wanted them too better than he could more talented older players, so it was even less of a gamble from his point of view. LvG undoubtedly cut down the squad as much as he did to give chances to youth players, he said as much at the time. I don't suppose he thought they would all come good enough for United, but he thought enough of them might be to make the overall gamble worth it.
Personally I think he overdid it, but that was a choice he made, he didn't luck into Rashford, he deliberately engineered a situation where youth players were going to get a chance (at the immediate short term detriment of the club imo).
I disagree. Another manager would have thrust a winger or midfielder up front. Can't remember who he had available but Nani, Depay, Valencia, di Maria, Cleverley or someone like that. And also another manager would have benched the youth when the senior player got back. Van Gaal gives opportunities to youth. No other manager would have promoted Muller over Luca Toni. Badstuber over Lucio. Van Gaal said no to Neuer because he believed in Thomas Kraft. And it's been the same in every team he has managed.
Blackett wasn’t destined for too much longer at United after the Leicester defeat
Rashford got his break, and kudos to him for taking it because there was a list of about 4 others in front of him who were injured
I'm convinced he had no idea what he was doing half the time and was just throwing random youngsters into the team like Donald Love hoping it would work. Also, does anyone remember him bringing Nick Powell on when we needed a goal in the CL? What the feck was that about. He had never played Powell before iirc and then he's coming on for Juan Mata when we desperately need a goal. Clueless.
There are vert few times in my life where I stopped organising my social time around United games. A good part of Van Gaals reign was one of them
He represented some quality in Italy, indeed, first matches in United shirt were fairly decent... same with Di Maria & Rojo. Similar promise offered Schneiderlin who's profile was looking quite compatible with the league.
Even Martial & Blind, players who many will remember fondly, there were and are serious doubts if they're more miss than hit. Pure chaos from Van Gaal in that regard.