What happened to US football - Golden Generation

Bertie Wooster

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I've caught a few MLS games in recent weeks.

I've been looking out for young US players. How highly rated are Bryce Duke and Andres Perea?

I especially liked the look of Bryce Duke - despite his lack of height, he seemed to have a bit of strength and competitive bite in the middle of the pitch. But, mostly, he looked good on the ball, playing some nice passes with good vision. He looked to have good potential as a #8 or 10.

He reminded me of the likes of Hansen Aaroen and Hannibal Mejbri currently coming through at United. All of them are the kind of creative players I enjoy watching.
 

mazhar13

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I've caught a few MLS games in recent weeks.

I've been looking out for young US players. How highly rated are Bryce Duke and Andres Perea?

I especially liked the look of Bryce Duke - despite his lack of height, he seemed to have a bit of strength and competitive bite in the middle of the pitch. But, mostly, he looked good on the ball, playing some nice passes with good vision. He looked to have good potential as a #8 or 10.

He reminded me of the likes of Hansen Aaroen and Hannibal Mejbri currently coming through at United. All of them are the kind of creative players I enjoy watching.
Bryce Duke reminds me of Kelyn Rowe, except he's not as good. Duke is tenacious and can cover a good bit of ground, but on the ball, I feel like he needs a bit of time to settle on the ball and get going. I don't think he'll amount to more than just a useful MLS player in my eyes.

Andrés Perea looks better to me. His positioning's better than Duke's in my opinion, and he seems more comfortable on the ball. I don't know if he'll be good enough for the national team or even a better league than MLS, but he has a decent amount of potential in my eyes.
 

bosskeano

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key word in that is they are young....they need a couple years playing at the pro level to continue improving before being looked at for the national team. We are already one of the youngest national squads in the world so it won't be easy breaking through especially if you're an attacking player. Duke is a guy who's going to be like a Jordan Henderson/Milner type of player. A guy who's willing to do the donkey work and put in a hard shift on the pitch to cover space for the guys to attack.
 

Bertie Wooster

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Thanks for those responses. :)

Shame Duke doesn't sound as promising as he appeared the couple of games I saw him in. But I'll still keep an eye on him and Perea over the next couple of years just in case.

I know about the young generation currently in the US national squad. But any other promising US (or Canadian) youngsters to look out for in MLS?
 

mazhar13

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I know about the young generation currently in the US national squad. But any other promising US (or Canadian) youngsters to look out for in MLS?
Americans:
  • NYRB
    • Caden Clark (17-year-old attacking midfielder on loan from Leipzig to NYRB)
    • John Tolkin (19-year-old left back)
    • Frankie Amaya (21-year-old central midfielder)
  • Philadelphia Union
    • Jack McGlynn (18-year-old central midfielder)
    • Quinn Sullivan (18-year-old winger/midfielder)
    • Paxten Aaronson (Brendan's younger brother; 18-year-old attacking midfielder)
  • FC Dallas
    • Paxton Pomykal (22-year-old playmaking central/attacking midfielder)
    • Edwin Cerrillo (21-year-old defensive midfielder)
  • LA Galaxy
    • Efraín Álvarez (20-year-old attacking midfielder)
    • Julián Araujo (20-year-old right back)
  • Seattle Sounders: Obed Vargas (16-year-old central midfielder)
  • San Jose Earthquakes: Cade Cowell (18-year-old forward)
Canadians:
  • CF Montréal: Rida Zouhir (18-year-old central midfielder)
  • Vancouver Whitecaps
    • Thomas Hasal (22-year-old goalkeeper)
    • Ryan Raposo (23-year-old winger)
    • Michael Baldisimo (22-year-old midfielder but on loan to Pacific FC in the CPL)
  • Toronto FC
    • Jacob Shaffelburg (22-year-old winger/forward)
    • Ayo Akinola (22-year-old forward)
    • Ralph Priso-Mbongue (19-year-old defensive/central midfielder)
    • Deandre Kerr (19-year-old winger/forward)
    • Kosi Thompson (19-year-old right back/winger/central midfielder)
    • Jayden Nelson (19-year-old winger)
    • Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty (18-year-old full back/winger)
    • Kobe Franklin (19-year-old right back; mostly in TFC II)
    • Hugo Mbongue (17-year-old striker; mostly in TFC II)
  • Columbus Crew
    • Jacen Russell-Rowe (19-year-old forward; mostly in Columbus Crew II)
    • Mohamed Farsi (22-year-old right back; mostly in Columbus Crew II)
  • Minnesota United: Dayne St. Clair (25-year-old goalkeeper)
 
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WI_Red

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Americans:
  • NYRB
    • Caden Clark (17-year-old attacking midfielder on loan from Leipzig to NYRB)
    • John Tolkin (19-year-old left back)
    • Frankie Amaya (21-year-old central midfielder)
  • Philadelphia Union
    • Jack McGlynn (18-year-old central midfielder)
    • Quinn Sullivan (18-year-old winger/midfielder)
    • Paxten Aaronson (Brendan's younger brother; 18-year-old attacking midfielder)
  • FC Dallas
    • Paxton Pomykal (22-year-old playmaking central/attacking midfielder)
    • Edwin Cerrillo (21-year-old defensive midfielder)
  • LA Galaxy
    • Efraín Álvarez (20-year-old attacking midfielder)
    • Julián Araujo (20-year-old right back)
  • Seattle Sounders: Obed Vargas (16-year-old central midfielder)
  • San Jose Earthquakes: Cade Cowell (18-year-old forward)
Canadians:
  • CF Montréal: Rida Zouhir (18-year-old central midfielder)
  • Vancouver Whitecaps
    • Thomas Hasal (22-year-old goalkeeper)
    • Ryan Raposo (23-year-old winger)
    • Michael Baldisimo (22-year-old midfielder but on loan to Pacific FC in the CPL)
  • Toronto FC
    • Jacob Shaffelburg (22-year-old winger/forward)
    • Ayo Akinola (22-year-old forward)
    • Ralph Priso-Mbongue (19-year-old defensive/central midfielder)
    • Deandre Kerr (19-year-old winger/forward)
    • Kosi Thompson (19-year-old right back/winger/central midfielder)
    • Jayden Nelson (19-year-old winger)
    • Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty (18-year-old full back/winger)
    • Kobe Franklin (19-year-old right back; mostly in TFC II)
    • Hugo Mbongue (17-year-old striker; mostly in TFC II)
  • Columbus Crew
    • Jacen Russell-Rowe (19-year-old forward; mostly in Columbus Crew II)
    • Mohamed Farsi (22-year-old right back; mostly in Columbus Crew II)
  • Minnesota United: Dayne St. Clair (25-year-old goalkeeper)
Fantastic work!

I think both the Galaxy players have committed to Mexico.
 

Bertie Wooster

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Americans:
  • NYRB
    • Caden Clark (17-year-old attacking midfielder on loan from Leipzig to NYRB)
    • John Tolkin (19-year-old left back)
    • Frankie Amaya (21-year-old central midfielder)
  • Philadelphia Union
    • Jack McGlynn (18-year-old central midfielder)
    • Quinn Sullivan (18-year-old winger/midfielder)
    • Paxten Aaronson (Brendan's younger brother; 18-year-old attacking midfielder)
  • FC Dallas
    • Paxton Pomykal (22-year-old playmaking central/attacking midfielder)
    • Edwin Cerrillo (21-year-old defensive midfielder)
  • LA Galaxy
    • Efraín Álvarez (20-year-old attacking midfielder)
    • Julián Araujo (20-year-old right back)
  • Seattle Sounders: Obed Vargas (16-year-old central midfielder)
  • San Jose Earthquakes: Cade Cowell (18-year-old forward)
Canadians:
  • CF Montréal: Rida Zouhir (18-year-old central midfielder)
  • Vancouver Whitecaps
    • Thomas Hasal (22-year-old goalkeeper)
    • Ryan Raposo (23-year-old winger)
    • Michael Baldisimo (22-year-old midfielder but on loan to Pacific FC in the CPL)
  • Toronto FC
    • Jacob Shaffelburg (22-year-old winger/forward)
    • Ayo Akinola (22-year-old forward)
    • Ralph Priso-Mbongue (19-year-old defensive/central midfielder)
    • Deandre Kerr (19-year-old winger/forward)
    • Kosi Thompson (19-year-old right back/winger/central midfielder)
    • Jayden Nelson (19-year-old winger)
    • Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty (18-year-old full back/winger)
    • Kobe Franklin (19-year-old right back; mostly in TFC II)
    • Hugo Mbongue (17-year-old striker; mostly in TFC II)
  • Columbus Crew
    • Jacen Russell-Rowe (19-year-old forward; mostly in Columbus Crew II)
    • Mohamed Farsi (22-year-old right back; mostly in Columbus Crew II)
  • Minnesota United: Dayne St. Clair (25-year-old goalkeeper)
Wow, thanks for all of that. I didn't expect such a detailed reply. That's incredibly useful. Cheers. :)
 

WI_Red

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I feel like one of them, but both of them? Really? If so, that's huge.
5 years ago? Sure. Now? Not really though. Araujo flipped because he saw no path to it playing time in the US side. He is a year younger than Dest and Reynolds/Scally I believe are younger. Alvarez is still not official but I can’t see him choosing the US. GB does not really play with a #10, and if he did, it would be Reyna there.
 

golden_blunder

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Bryce Duke reminds me of Kelyn Rowe, except he's not as good. Duke is tenacious and can cover a good bit of ground, but on the ball, I feel like he needs a bit of time to settle on the ball and get going. I don't think he'll amount to more than just a useful MLS player in my eyes.

Andrés Perea looks better to me. His positioning's better than Duke's in my opinion, and he seems more comfortable on the ball. I don't know if he'll be good enough for the national team or even a better league than MLS, but he has a decent amount of potential in my eyes.
Sounds too much like a regen of a footballer that we can’t get rid off yet
 

WI_Red

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Sounds too much like a regen of a footballer that we can’t get rid off yet
He's actually had a few caps with the USMNT a year (maybe 2??) ago. Was not terribly impressed as he was very slow in making decisions on the ball, but he was only 18-19 or so at the time. You could see the passing ability when he had time, but he would be eaten alive (and kinda was) by even a moderate press.
 

bosskeano

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With all these forwards being linked with Chelsea, Pulisic needs to be very careful of what transpires. he could end up seeing himself pushed out of the first team going into the world cup.
 

edcunited1878

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With all these forwards being linked with Chelsea, Pulisic needs to be very careful of what transpires. he could end up seeing himself pushed out of the first team going into the world cup.
It's the issue with most American players abroad...they get transferred to a club that really is too good for them and they suffer for match time, which impacts their status for the national team. Steffan presumably got pushed out of City and his performances towards the tail end of qualifying were horrible. Then Matt Turner now goes to Arsenal, but he's in a straight battle for the 1 shirt and he's not the incumbent (Ramsdale is). So what happens to Turner's form? He was playing better than Steffan for club and country, but that momentum might not carryover.
 

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WI_Red

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These.....these are awful. Like really, really hideous. Like, would pay to not have to wear one (which is the opposite of merchandising, right?).

 

Melbourne Red

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I'm now on board with USMNT. Would love to see them go really deep in the tournament and see what happens to football over there. I see US football and Australian football as being similar in that the game is outside the mainstream but enjoyed by a sizeable niche. But it does sound like the growth the game has seen over there is very impressive indeed, no matter what happens with this golden generation in coming world cups.

Out of curiosity, what sort of fees have the best MLS players attracted when they've gone to Europe? We've got a bit of an issue with A-League players being sold for less than I think they ought to be worth because European clubs don't rate the league and see them as unproven.
 

WI_Red

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I'm now on board with USMNT. Would love to see them go really deep in the tournament and see what happens to football over there. I see US football and Australian football as being similar in that the game is outside the mainstream but enjoyed by a sizeable niche. But it does sound like the growth the game has seen over there is very impressive indeed, no matter what happens with this golden generation in coming world cups.

Out of curiosity, what sort of fees have the best MLS players attracted when they've gone to Europe? We've got a bit of an issue with A-League players being sold for less than I think they ought to be worth because European clubs don't rate the league and see them as unproven.
Always glad to have someone new on the train. A warning though, the conductor of this train is an egotistical idiot whose roster selections and tactics will drive you bonkers (or to drink).

Off the top of my head I think the 2 largest transfers are Miguel Almiron to Newcastle for around $25 million and Ricardo Pepi (:nervous:) to Augsburg for $20 million. There have been a few more in between $10 and $20 million including, I think, Davies to Bayern. I think MLS is still a “value in the market” shopping location, especially academy players as league rules make it hard for clubs to tie down youth players to contracts (see Weston McKennie, Chris Richards, etc.).
 

Melbourne Red

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Always glad to have someone new on the train. A warning though, the conductor of this train is an egotistical idiot whose roster selections and tactics will drive you bonkers (or to drink).

Off the top of my head I think the 2 largest transfers are Miguel Almiron to Newcastle for around $25 million and Ricardo Pepi (:nervous:) to Augsburg for $20 million. There have been a few more in between $10 and $20 million including, I think, Davies to Bayern. I think MLS is still a “value in the market” shopping location, especially academy players as league rules make it hard for clubs to tie down youth players to contracts (see Weston McKennie, Chris Richards, etc.).
Those are fantastic fees, bloody hell. The players we're producing these days are Championship standard at best but even the best ones barely fetch $1.5m. It's basically becoming acknowledged in A-League circles now that you're going to have accept tiny fees and make sure you have a hefty sell-on clause.
 

bosskeano

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I'm now on board with USMNT. Would love to see them go really deep in the tournament and see what happens to football over there. I see US football and Australian football as being similar in that the game is outside the mainstream but enjoyed by a sizeable niche. But it does sound like the growth the game has seen over there is very impressive indeed, no matter what happens with this golden generation in coming world cups.

Out of curiosity, what sort of fees have the best MLS players attracted when they've gone to Europe? We've got a bit of an issue with A-League players being sold for less than I think they ought to be worth because European clubs don't rate the league and see them as unproven.
The smartest thing MLS has done is going into the south american market and buying young players for a reasonable fee, allowing them to play and develop before selling them to a european club. What that has also done is made the league better, it's made the young american kids better and it's made the league much more marketable now.
 

WI_Red

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The smartest thing MLS has done is going into the south american market and buying young players for a reasonable fee, allowing them to play and develop before selling them to a european club. What that has also done is made the league better, it's made the young american kids better and it's made the league much more marketable now.
I agree with most of this with a slight exception to the bolded part. I think once side effect has been to incentivize some teams to ignore their academy system. I took NBC's top 25 rankings (there are 31 due to 6 players dropping out) of the current player pool and looked at the development path of each player. 10 of the players had no MLS or College development roots. These are the other 21. The college guys are, not surprisingly the older players (plus Miles and Luca). Of the Academies listed below I feel that only Dallas, and now Philly, are taking things seriously. This is based really only on my gut feeling and listening to a bunch of USMNT podcasts, but I might be (am probably) wrong.

MLS/CollegePlayers
College
6​
Dallas
4​
NYCFC
2​
SKC
2​
LA Galaxy
2​
Chicago
2​
NYRB
2​
Philly
1​
 

bosskeano

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I agree with most of this with a slight exception to the bolded part. I think once side effect has been to incentivize some teams to ignore their academy system. I took NBC's top 25 rankings (there are 31 due to 6 players dropping out) of the current player pool and looked at the development path of each player. 10 of the players had no MLS or College development roots. These are the other 21. The college guys are, not surprisingly the older players (plus Miles and Luca). Of the Academies listed below I feel that only Dallas, and now Philly, are taking things seriously. This is based really only on my gut feeling and listening to a bunch of USMNT podcasts, but I might be (am probably) wrong.

MLS/CollegePlayers
College
6​
Dallas
4​
NYCFC
2​
SKC
2​
LA Galaxy
2​
Chicago
2​
NYRB
2​
Philly
1​
i guess i should have clarified that statement abit more in that the young americans who were already entrenched into the US system. You're right though the biggest issue is the college system is COMPLETELY broken and has hindered american players which trickles on to the MLS sides.
 

NewYorkRed

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I think if Reyna stays healthy, this US team will surprise people at the WC. He is an absolute class player. Easily our best player when fit. I think we’ll make it out of that group and then anything can happen.
 

bosskeano

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What's wrong with the college system just out of interest?
Just look at the rosters of most of the D1 programs across the country, they are heavy with foreign players. You have rosters where 2/3rd's of the rosters are foreign which isn't good for the american players and reaching their full development
 

FerociousCorgis

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I think if Reyna stays healthy, this US team will surprise people at the WC. He is an absolute class player. Easily our best player when fit. I think we’ll make it out of that group and then anything can happen.
health, as always and for any team, will be huge. We have a good amount of players who play in top leagues, but also could be deemed injury prone. If players like weston, reyna, pulisic etc are healthy and fit can be a good team in spite of greg. If not then we will struggle.
 

NewYorkRed

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health, as always and for any team, will be huge. We have a good amount of players who play in top leagues, but also could be deemed injury prone. If players like weston, reyna, pulisic etc are healthy and fit can be a good team in spite of greg. If not then we will struggle.
Greg is a disastor. Not sure if you watch FS1 but he was on The Herd and just seemed like he had no idea what he’s talking about. Just Cliché after Cliché.
 

edcunited1878

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I think if Reyna stays healthy, this US team will surprise people at the WC. He is an absolute class player. Easily our best player when fit. I think we’ll make it out of that group and then anything can happen.
He's very talented, but he doesn't have a set role or position within the U.S. side....it's all too loose with Greg. You look at Canada and you see a defined system and player who know what is expected of them to get the best out of them and the team.

The core team will probably revolve around Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Aaronson, and Reyna. But none of them are a pure CF and a line of Reyna, Pulisic, and Aaronson is a bit lightweight but theoretically sounds good on the counter...depends on who is the CF ahead of them, if McKennie and Adams are a midfield two, but have seen Greg go with a midfield 3 many times.
 
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