Why do we have a meltdown today?

[The Urban Goose]

I don't know what people expect of these players. We seem to be living in an age where a YouTube highlights reel dictates a player's quality, not how he actually influences a game over 90+ minutes. The team really is not as good as people think.

We do well away from home and struggle at OT as we are a classic counter-attacking team. But that's due to the players we have.

If we take our usual front 6 as Fred, McT, Bruno, Rashford, Martial and Mata or James (for argument's sake I'm considering Greenwood as a CF, as it would be unfair to class him as a RW), 4 of those need replacing if we're to become a good possession side.

We have two water-carriers who can't really contribute to intricate passing.

Rashford is basically a selfish speed merchant. A very good one, but he often struggles in tight spaces.

Martial most of the time has the movement of a dead fish; he's certainly no Cole or Yorke.

RW? Might as well not bother.

To become a better possession team we need a much stronger base to support Bruno. One of Fred or McT might get away with it, but not both.

We could probably live with Rashford as he is, but he really needs to improve his all-round game.

Martial has to go. Hopefully Greenwood can develop into the all-round CF we need.

RW? We all know where we stand.

 

[Pennywise]

I don't know what people expect of these players. We seem to be living in an age where a YouTube highlights reel dictates a player's quality, not how he actually influences a game over 90+ minutes. The team really is not as good as people think.

We do well away from home and struggle at OT as we are a classic counter-attacking team. But that's due to the players we have.

If we take our usual front 6 as Fred, McT, Bruno, Rashford, Martial and Mata or James (for argument's sake I'm considering Greenwood as a CF, as it would be unfair to class him as a RW), 4 of those need replacing if we're to become a good possession side.

We have two water-carriers who can't really contribute to intricate passing.

Rashford is basically a selfish speed merchant. A very good one, but he often struggles in tight spaces.

Martial most of the time has the movement of a dead fish; he's certainly no Cole or Yorke.

RW? Might as well not bother.

To become a better possession team we need a much stronger base to support Bruno. One of Fred or McT might get away with it, but not both.

We could probably live with Rashford as he is, but he really needs to improve his all-round game.

Martial has to go. Hopefully Greenwood can develop into the all-round CF we need.

RW? We all know where we stand.

The players are far better than being able to manage 1 goal from open play at home in the league. I would expect better than that if I was a Fulham fan

 

[FrankDrebin]

The players are far better than being able to manage 1 goal from open play at home in the league. I would expect better than that if I was a Fulham fan

Sure but we have also racked up some high score-lines under Ole since he's been here.

Now, I think Ole will eventually be moved on but the players still need to be questioned.

 

[Siorac]

I think everybody should expect to see a bit of a collective vent after a defeat. If it helps the emotional basket cases to feel better then have at it.

That sounds very magnanimous but when people DO vent after a bad defeat, we get the exact same threads as this and the exact same 'what do people expect' posts that litter threads like this.

 

[Pennywise]

Sure but we have also racked up some high score-lines under Ole since he's been here.

Now, I think Ole will eventually be moved on but the players still need to be questioned.

Completely agree. The players aren't producing. If they're not producing then Ole should be moved on

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah, this confuses me as well. I mean, we as fans dont really set any standards since we have almost zero impact on how the club is being run or what happens on the pitch. We're just along for the ride really. Being unhappy with playing like shit or thinking the manager is not good enough? Sure, but this is not like picking a restaurant to eat on.

I think a lot of people view this as some kind of transaction. They give support and expect good football and results in return. I get it, Sky are greedy bastards and we all pay a premium to watch United on the telly, but that does not really mean we also can demand swasbuckling football and great results. One argument that often gets brought up is how we are apparently too big to fail. Do you think Liverpool fans at the end of the 80's could have imagined they would go three decades without another title?

Growing up as a foreign United fan i always had rival supporters tell me we were all a bunch of glory hunters and it pissed me off. Turns out though, they were somewhat right because we do unfortunately have a couple of those

It is alright saying fans are entitled and only starting supporting when SAF was sweeping everybody aside, but do you not think the fans who watched that Tommy Doc side didn't have the times of their lives, the football was great to watch. That they didn't enjoy watching us stop Liverpool winning a treble, when the F.A. Cup meant something to people. What has made people spoilt is the CL and the scramble to get in it. The snobbery of not wanting to win the F.A Cup or League Cup. What we want is good football with good conversion of chances, get that and the rest might just take care of itself. Our goal scoring is woeful. Ole is too scared of hurting peoples feelings. If Martial needs dropping/resting for Cavani then do it or Ole's job will be on the line.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Some have, but they tend to avoid admitting it on a moderated forum. A lot more have on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/search?q=want United to lose&src=typed_query&f=live

1: Doing your routine, talking about other people wanting United to lose.
2. Same thing.
3. Not a United fan.
4. City fan.
5. There's one.
6. Explicitly says the opposite, no United fan wants to lose.
7. Not a United fan. He wants United to lose, but he's afraid that if we do lose Ole will get the sack. He doesn't want Ole to get the sack, presumably because he thinks that would help us.

You basically found a single random guy on Twitter, what a weird picture to make your point with.

 

[R'hllor]

People wondering whats the issue and why section moan about scoring what 1 goal from open play at home so far, it is funny not gonna lie. Just remember all the drivel you spout now, others will come back to one day if Ole gets a sack because you fake fecks will change your tune, if one day in charge we have manager that you dont like. Bet you wont have same standards and excuses as now, we already saw that with JM cultists, when they have a go at Ole.

 

[MikeKing]

People wondering whats the issue and why section moan about scoring what 1 goal from open play at home so far, it is funny not gonna lie. Just remember all the drivel you spout now, others will come back to one day if Ole gets a sack because you fake fecks will change your tune, if one day in charge we have manager that you dont like. Bet you wont have same standards and excuses as now, we already saw that with JM cultists, when they have a go at Ole.

It's very extreme but not everyone is that extreme that they refuse to be neutral in their view of a new manager because something happened with the previous manager they were dissatisfied with. I'm not sure everyone is fake, and will join the negativity just because it's a new manager and not Ole. I don't think it's that personal for most who the manager is. It's a huge role, but it's not the only factor like it's made out to be. Before it really was the thing that managers only got sacked during season because they lost the dressing room or it was clear they couldn't perform to their targets, mostly it happened to teams in the relegation zone desperate to make a quick change. That is still the case, and while United was that desperate after SAF the club seem to have settled on Ole for a while, yet many fans buy the media narrative that he'll get the sack every other game. I find that spin from the media totally unrealistic from the get go. We're not in such a desperate position even if we're not satisfied.

 

[MikeKing]

Because we are sick of watching this expensive and pretty good team playing like shit.
Because we are sick of watching defensive football and defensive lineups against every team no matter how that team is bad.
Because it is obvious that we don't have bright future with this so called coach.
Because we play boring football.

It's just opinions. If moaning help then fine but if not why not treat it like an opinion rather than facts you have to rage and rant behind. I disagree. I don't think we're playing like shit. I don't think it's defensive football and line ups. I don't think we play boring football. I don't think we're amazing at all but I have fun following us at the moment. Rashford, Greenwood, Martial and Bruno in the same line up is really exiting and they need freedom to express themselves and not defensive shackling, which we're giving them. We're also a hard-working team with these players which is a dangerous combination. It's not working out every time but I'm not watching Fellaini and Welbeck.

 

[sglowrider]

I add another two:

We beat teams that don’t sit deep, people moan
We beat teams that sit deep, people will still moan

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I see a pattern here.

 

[Borys]

Massive overreaction on here. If Kane got the chances that Rashford and Martial got, we would've trashed WBA. But due to us having lowest conversion rate in EPL (all strikers combined), we were struggling to break them down. We need to continue what we're doing and the goals will come. I know it's hard to be optimistic after a game which we've won by penalty, by take a look at those stats where I compared our game and Tottenham game vs WBA:

8/11 WBA vs Tottenham (who are top of the league)
Shots 19 (T) vs 12 (WBA), on target 5 vs 2
Possession 59% (T) vs 41% (WBA)
508 passes with 78% pass accuracy for Tottenham vs 340 passes with 66% accuracy for WBA
Kane scored great header in 88', 0-1 final score

21/11 Man United vs WBA
Shots 17 vs 7, on target 7 vs 2
Possession 64% vs 36%
663 passes with 84% accuracy vs 385 passes with 77% accuracy

We created better chances (compare Spurs vs United). We had better chances than Tottenham based on xG measure (2,43 vs 1,87), and the chances West Bromich Albion created vs us were less dangerous (0,44 vs 0,8 against Spurs). We also got higher score on expected points parameter.
WBA keeper was their highest rated player, while vs Tottenham he was 7th most rated player.

 

[Leftback99]

People wondering whats the issue and why section moan about scoring what 1 goal from open play at home so far, it is funny not gonna lie. Just remember all the drivel you spout now, others will come back to one day if Ole gets a sack because you fake fecks will change your tune, if one day in charge we have manager that you dont like. Bet you wont have same standards and excuses as now, we already saw that with JM cultists, when they have a go at Ole.

That works both ways. Under the next manager I'm confident we'll see the same 'excuses' for our poor performances from those that dismiss them now, because they like the new guy.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Why not?

 

[Leftback99]

Some perspective:

8/11 WBA vs Tottenham (who are top of the league)
Shots 19 (T) vs 12 (WBA), on target 5 vs 2
Possession 59% (T) vs 41% (WBA)
508 passes with 78% pass accuracy for Tottenham vs 340 passes with 66% accuracy for WBA
Kane scored great header in 88', 0-1 final score

21/11 Man United vs WBA
Shots 17 vs 7, on target 7 vs 2
Possession 64% vs 36%
663 passes with 84% accuracy vs 385 passes with 77% accuracy

We created better chances (compare Spurs vs United). We had better chances than Tottenham based on xG measure (2,43 vs 1,87), and the chances West Bromich Albion created vs us were less dangerous (0,44 vs 0,8 against Spurs). We also got higher score on expected points parameter.
WBA keeper was their highest rated player, while vs Tottenham he was 7th most rated player.

Massive overreaction on here. If Kane got the chances that Rashford and Martial got, we would've trashed WBA. But due to us having lowest conversion rate in EPL (all strikers combined), we were struggling to break them down.

The effect of only seeing highlights or basing judgements on final scores. I've just watched Everton get outplayed by Fulham for the whole of the second half but you still see posts like 'Everton are better than us' because of a 10 minute spell early in the game.

 

[R'hllor]

That works both ways. Under the next manager I'm confident we'll see the same 'excuses' for our poor performances from those that dismiss them now, because they like the new guy.

Yep, thats whats happening now and it will happen after Ole if he gets a sack etc. Because people for some fecked up reason have to hook onto some manager and live in his rectuum, so this whole supporting United manager is bollox, they just support their guy. I mean we have a fecking United fan who is Poch fan in the same time, fan of some guy who has no connection to United but God help us dealing with him if Poch ever becomes United manager. Its the same case for JM.

 

[OleBoiii]

You know things are bad when the Ole out thread gets hundreds of responses after a win. So many miserable people in here.

 

[wolvored]

The meltdown as the OP calls it is because were all or most of us are all fecking fed up how a team who cost hundreds of millions can play so shit most of the time. If we were WBA you could understand it as their best hope is to stay in the league and the odd win would be heralded it as the massive deal it would be. Here we should be turning teams like the baggies over before half time. Were supposed to be the biggest club in the country and one of the biggest in the world, yet performance wise since Fergie were on par with an Everton or Wanderers, middling teams.

 

[Josep Dowling]

its just a default reaction these days. People choose to overlook how often other teams grind out these wins through a season, or how often we did it under Ferguson. We used to say that these were the types of results that win titles.

The big difference is the likes of Liverpool grind out results on occasion. How we played yesterday is the new norm and it’s not acceptable. Our first win at home this season in the league. How many times have we needed a penalty to get us a result as well?

 

[Bilbo]

The big difference is the likes of Liverpool grind out results on occasion. How we played yesterday is the new norm and it’s not acceptable. Our first win at home this season in the league. How many times have we needed a penalty to get us a result as well?

Liverpool have won 5 games this season. 3 by a single goal.

City have won 3 games. 2 by a single goal

Spurs have won 6. 3 by a single goal

Chelseas numbers are better, but there is a clear pattern here. Teams are having to grind out wins so far this season. Any of those teams could have a handful fewer points than they do without a late goal here, a VAR decision there, and so could we, but it is what it is.

We'd all love to be sitting comfortably 3-0 with half an hour to play, but that isnt really happening that much for anybody at the moment, and we will have our run where it does. All that really matters right now is putting points on the board.

 

[keithsingleton]

What is it?

Because we're a very poor team to watch..

 

[vanrooney]

As long as we don’t win 3-0 every game people will moan. I think we played ok and should have won comfortably. In the end we had to grind out the result and we did it so nothing to complain for me

 

[Gabagoo]

Another shite performance.

The question is, why are so many United fans so meek and accepting of these constantly poor games?

 

[The Urban Goose]

I don't know what people expect of these players. We seem to be living in an age where a YouTube highlights reel dictates a player's quality, not how he actually influences a game over 90+ minutes. The team really is not as good as people think.

We do well away from home and struggle at OT as we are a classic counter-attacking team. But that's due to the players we have.

If we take our usual front 6 as Fred, McT, Bruno, Rashford, Martial and Mata or James (for argument's sake I'm considering Greenwood as a CF, as it would be unfair to class him as a RW), 4 of those need replacing if we're to become a good possession side.

We have two water-carriers who can't really contribute to intricate passing.

Rashford is basically a selfish speed merchant. A very good one, but he often struggles in tight spaces.

Martial most of the time has the movement of a dead fish; he's certainly no Cole or Yorke.

RW? Might as well not bother.

To become a better possession team we need a much stronger base to support Bruno. One of Fred or McT might get away with it, but not both.

We could probably live with Rashford as he is, but he really needs to improve his all-round game.

Martial has to go. Hopefully Greenwood can develop into the all-round CF we need.

RW? We all know where we stand.

The players are far better than being able to manage 1 goal from open play at home in the league. I would expect better than that if I was a Fulham fan

So what are your thoughts after last night?

We replaced one of Fred and McT with a more dynamic player, and had a proper CF up front, and look at the difference.

We just need to properly sort out the RW now.