Do we have a midfield problem?

You forgot Hargreaves who by all accounts does do a fair job when he's fit. I honestly wouldn't be too upset if we went for a midfield when Giggsy and Scholes retire but I don't think it is an immediate problem.

let me think...

midfielders we have and will have next season...

scholes , giggs, nani, park, tosic, lallijac, pettruci, anderson, carrick, hargreaves, fletcher, gibson, possebon...

humm... i wouldnt say that we have a problem there tbh

I don't see a big problem. Carrick has had 3 very good years at United, that is not changed by a couple of below par displays in a row. Fletcher had the best season of his career and is now upto the standards of a Nicky Butt type player, we still not lost a game he has started in the centre this season. Anderson has the potential to be the best of the lot but he still has alot to learn about the art of midfield play.

Worth remembering that for the most part Carrick and Fletcher have been the pairing that has featured most regularly in this 31 game run when we only lost one game until today. I don't think today changes the fact that our midfield has generally done well. Scholes and Giggs have featured and Giggs has played very well but due to the way they are handled they are not as regular as Carrick and Fletcher. Hargreaves is also someone set to come into the future equation.

SAF knows that when these guys retire, there will be a gap, so expect him to sort that problem before it arises, hes been doing it for 22 years.

Burndogg said:

SAF knows that when these guys retire, there will be a gap, so expect him to sort that problem before it arises, hes been doing it for 22 years.

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though lets not forget we did have the djemba twins and kleberson at one point

I think we might need a more defensive-minded CM, someone that could sweep up everything in front of the back four.

I just hope that Hargreaves can come back from all his injury problems.

when Giggsy and Scholes retire, we will still have the following

Anderson
Carrick
Fletcher
Gibson
Hargreaves
Possebon

we are not really bare....but players like Anderson,Gibson and Possebon will need time to become the players they obviously have the potential to become.

R.Nilsson7 said:

I think we might need a more defensive-minded CM, someone that could sweep up everything in front of the back four.

I just hope that Hargreaves can come back from all his injury problems.

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Fletcher done a decent enough job all season in this role, still not lost a game he has started as a centre midfielder. WIth Hargreaves back and Carrick someone who often sits that should be enough, our defence is normally protected well by the midfield. We need Anderson to kick on really. He is the midfielder with the power, pace and dribbling ability that could make him standout from the others and give us something different.

Anderson is an enigma. Every young player is inconsistent but I can't quite believe he's been here two years and we still don't know what position he can play.

All very well saying he should play in a three but why should the team change it's formation/tactics to compensate for one player's inability to master the basics of midfield movement and positioning?

He has so much potential and talent I don't see how he could be anything other than a long-term success but it's almost as though the coaching staff need to re-build his game from scratch or try him in an entirely new position (maybe left wing?)

EZee said:

though lets not forget we did have the djemba twins and kleberson at one point

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Bloody hell, after the day we've had you go and mention those two to compound the misery

We do have a problem in central midfield. We have two quality but quiet low-key passers in Scholes and Carrick, a decent all-round player in Fletcher, a busy but not much else Anderson, a crock in Hargreaves and a stop-gap veteran in Giggs.
Keane in his pomp was an immense player for us. Technically not the best but he drove us forward, he had ego, presence and would never roll over. He was a big player.
We sorely lacked such a dominant central midfield character today.

I think it is a slight problem that we do not have a real world class central midfield player.

We have very good players in Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes, Giggs and Hargreaves.

But Gerrard + Mascherano on paper looks as good as any of those two together.

It's only a slight problem though and it will only show once in a blue moon.

There aren't too many players like Keano around anymore to be fair.

Someone like Michael Essien the calculator will be nice.

Anderson needs to step up big time, and Hargreaves to sort out his injuries. If not, we'll have a problem when Scholes/Giggs retire

Pogue Mahone said:

All very well saying he should play in a three but why should the team change it's formation/tactics to compensate for one player's inability to master the basics of midfield movement and positioning?

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It's the same position as Giggs normally plays in these days. Occasionally Giggs will still play on the left wing or a midfield two, but most of the games it's a 4231/433 with him pushed up almost behind the striker.

Sometimes I think we now have too many options, meaning nobody gets any sort of form.

Scholes hasn't been excellent recently which is a shame, but then again he's been chopped and changed around.

Seems that only Fletcher works well with everyone, so my choice of pairing would be Fletcher-Carrick, Fletcher-Scholes, Fletcher-Giggs or Fletcher-Anderson. If Fletcher doesn't play, I would then prefer Carrick-Scholes, Carrick-Giggs. Other that than, I don't feel confident about any Scholes, Anderson, Giggs combination.

We have Hargreaves for a reason.

When we play a team our midfield can outclass, he doesn't need to play.

When we play a team that can potentially outclass ours, he does. It isn't because he is a "better" player. It is because he breaks down another teams strength.

He may not be the most technical player, but he tears around the pitch and makes life difficult for everyone else. He also NEVER gives up. We could have used him yesterday.

fergieisold said:

Just having a ponder about our midfield - who exactly is our first choice pairing in the middle and what are the problems we are facing over the next few years?

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Our midfiedld is fine. The fact that we do not have a first choice pairing has not held us back, considering we are top of the league and into the CL Quarters, and won a ridiculous number of games in a row before losing to Liverpool.

Also, people are retiring. This is not so much of a problem, considering that people often retire in football. Most players, in fact. And the two you mention - Scholes, Giggs - are fairly well covered in central midfield, although we would probably buy another if they both retired this summer (which they won't).

Rather than the midfield being a problem, let's look at the defence, where for what the second time in 3 years we've lost players with injuries who we've then rushed back.

Whilst Pique, Cathcart and Evans are all mainly centre backs, with Brown and O'Shea available for that role as well, we were loaded in that position for time to come. However, we've sold Pique, Cathcart is out on loan and Brown has missed yet another season with injury. Add to this Neville's injury position, we've been close to the bare bones at the back. Yet through this we've probably had our best season defensively, however with yesterday in mind that run of clean sheets is but a distant memory.

Rio and Evra have both been rushed back for what ever reason, Fergie seemingly not wanting to thrust Fabio into the deep end like he did with Rafael earlier on this season. Evans played on through injuries, which is never good. Both Rio and Evra have both taken time to get back into any sort of form since returning. It isn't just a defensive situation either, Anderson was brought back straight into the team once he was fit, he too hasn't had chance to play any games to pick up some form, and we find people bemoaning his performances.

The concern should be more on the defence, but the performance before the injuries was so good we wouldn't question it. Whilst today is very much about the squad rather than the team, a settled defence is the foundation to build the team upon, and that's something we've not had, even during that run. I'm becoming concerned over the depth of cover we have there more than anywhere else.

I'll be absolutely honest when I saw the midfield of Anderson, Park, Carrick and Ronaldo I thought it gave us half a chance of snatching something- not necessarily a win but certainly a draw.
They're by no means bad players but compared to Scholes, Giggs etc they simply wont hurt you as much.

I think players and specially Carrick were really tired.I thought that Fletcher should have started 100% ahead of Anderson as for a match like that Darren would have been good.

fergieisold said:

I fully expected Anderson to become one of the first choice centre midfielders, and despite being convinced as you say he will be a long term success I don't think he is coming along as quickly as we would like him to.

Still think we miss a defensive midfielder able to break add control to our game and disrupt an opposition team coming at us effectively. Infact I think that is what we missed yesterday, people keep saying how bad our defense performed (which they did) but they had nothing protecting them.

Although just so people know, this isn't me slating anything about our team really, it's just an observation that we might come up a bit short in this department quite soon.

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Totally agree with this. Without this type of player our central midfield comes up short against the very best in the world.

Having a combination of Carrick and Anderson meant we had to use our possession wisely, as there was no one there to put pressure on their players in the middle of the park when we did not have the ball.

Last season it looked like Anderson may become this type of player, but his positional sense in midfield is so erratic, that the game can just drift by him. Needs to make himself more available for a pass as well.

A Keane/Essien type player is what we're missing as highlighted above. Wouldn't have minded a punt on someone like Palacios. Not saying he'd reach the heights of a Keane or Essien, but the availability of that type of midfielder isn't very high.

Fletcher should have started yesterday

Pogue Mahone said:

Anderson is an enigma. Every young player is inconsistent but I can't quite believe he's been here two years and we still don't know what position he can play.

All very well saying he should play in a three but why should the team change it's formation/tactics to compensate for one player's inability to master the basics of midfield movement and positioning?

He has so much potential and talent I don't see how he could be anything other than a long-term success but it's almost as though the coaching staff need to re-build his game from scratch or try him in an entirely new position (maybe left wing?)

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Sad to say I totally agree with this. He's got so much going for him in terms of skill, athleticism and attitude but his movement and positioning is miles behind the rest of his game and its crippling his development.

Carrick and Fletcher are excellent players I'm struggling to remember a truly great performance over the past two and a bit seasons where neither Giggs or Scholes orchestrated things. When they finally fade into retirement our future will massively depend on how Anderson's developed. If he's no longer a central midfielder or he simply hasn't improved then its hard to imagine us sustaining our success without a big signing. Whether its an Essien type or a Xavi type I don't know. If he does kick on and develop into the central midfielder I think he's capable of being all that is redundant.

Greg said:

I'll be absolutely honest when I saw the midfield of Anderson, Park, Carrick and Ronaldo I thought it gave us half a chance of snatching something- not necessarily a win but certainly a draw.
They're by no means bad players but compared to Scholes, Giggs etc they simply wont hurt you as much.

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Another Liverpool said that to me this morning in the gym and its a fair point. I tend to give our players every benefit of the doubt, especially Anderson as he's got such unbelievable potential, but maybe you scumbags have a clearer perspective in this case. Only this case though.

should have been a midfield of Park, Fletcher, Carrick, Ronaldo but after Anderson's performance last year, you can't doubt Fergie for putting him in. 'even though I did '

In defense, we should have placed Evans at right back as he played reasonably well for the time he spent there during the Carling cup final.


For the game against Fulham we must play

O'shea/Brown, Rio, Evans, Evra
Park,Fletcher,Carrick, Nani
Ronaldo, Rooney

Or change Nani for Berba and place Ronaldo on the left wing.

We need a Sheriff like Mascherano or Essien.

Nobody comes in to the Sheriffs town.

I think we should be looking at playing a consistent two,sure we suffer injuries but we seem to play a different combination for every single match it doesn't help the team IMO. This had led to us not playing the flowing football we are used to. We need to build a consistent midfield encompassing energy, work rate, composure on the ball and a passing range its almost like we have too many options in there at the minute and nobody can build up any form in there.

Strength in depth wise we are well covered. Stating that I don't know whether the talent we have can ever reach the quality we currently have. I mean Anderson and co are good but reaching Scholes level is a massive task.

cina said:

We need a Sheriff like Mascherano or Essien.

Nobody comes in to the Sheriffs town.

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Owen Hargreaves? - granted hes out for the season but we do have that sort of player

But something occured to me as i read this post and that was "when Scholes and Giggs retire" i know it was always going to happen but feck me when they do leave it would leave a huge gap in our team, both are players that the rest of the youngester in our squad look up to and when things arent going too good we rely on their experience to see us through. While Anderson will pay off (i know he was poor yesterday but lets not forget how good he was last season) in the future Scholes and Giggs are proving quite vital in our charge for the title and europe i just cant see a United team without their experience and ability.

Back on topic i really think that Carrick and Fletcher is our first choice midfield pairing, the problem however with fletcher is while being amazing this season we shouldnt forget that hes been dropped because his performances had dipped off late add to that a lot of playing time. Carrick well hes been so good for us this season but his looks tired if im being honest thats all

Name Changed said:

I think it is a slight problem that we do not have a real world class central midfield player.

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You are spot on when you said that we have good midfielders but not great. It appears to be a bigger problem this year because our 4-4-2 tactic leaves them with more to do and they don't appear up to the task.

As long as CQ was around, Carrick-Scholes sat back deep and allowed the front 4 to attack. That suited Carrick's strengths and the aging legs of Scholes. We are now back to Fergie's trusted 4-4-2 with Carrick-other midfielder having to do more. Our best player from last season and top goal scorer is stuck far wider than he should be played. We are chasing the game against Liverpool and our two top goal scorers - Ronaldo/Rooney are moved wide by Fergie and hardly get a decent shot on goal after that.

Our record against the better teams (Barcelona, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Liverpool and Inter Milan) since last April - Played 12, Won Three, Drawn Five, Lost Four

Name Changed said:

I think it is a slight problem that we do not have a real world class central midfield player.

We have very good players in Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes, Giggs and Hargreaves.

But Gerrard + Mascherano on paper looks as good as any of those two together.

It's only a slight problem though and it will only show once in a blue moon.

There aren't too many players like Keano around anymore to be fair.

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That one could be true

Oh for a Bryan Robson circa 1983. But Hargreaves will do nicely if he can get back to full fitness, which he hopefully will. I haven't heard anything about his progress since his operations. Does anyone know what the prognosis is?

The idea that we might have a midfield problem when we have Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher, Anderson and Hargreaves is laughable. And probably knee jerk. Yesterday maybe the wrong constellation was chosen (in hindsight it seems we should've played Fletcher), but it doesn't help that the midfielders who indeed did play had bad days in the office, and had a defense behind them who were prone to personal errors.

Instant Karma said:

Our record against the better teams (Barcelona, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Liverpool and Inter Milan) since last April - Played 12, Won Three, Drawn Five, Lost Four

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Considering we haven't played Arsenal and Villa at home, that's a perfectly adequate record.

If we win those two games we'll have won five, drawn five and lost four, after playing our strongest opposition home and away. Which is absolutely fine.