Bergkamp is overrated.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
How is it overhyped? Had it been a United player, we'd have been falling all over ourselves. And it's like that the only stunner he scored. It's like saying we only remember LeTissier for 'that goal' or Keano for 'that tackle' or Scholes for 'that pass', etc...
It's a great goal and up there with the best imo. But for some reason my mate and I always thought he fouled the bloke he slapped away.
Might have to watch it again.
Erm at Inter he was shit, nearly to Taibi's level shit. His second season was so terrible that one newspaper renamed its 'asino della settimana' (ie the donkey of the week meant for the worst performers) into the Berkamp della settimana.
The Inter fans used to judge him as a softie. Maybe there's a reason why he became an Arsenal legend....
Outscored by Heskey in the seasons Arsenal were at their best.
And its no fluke. During his second season with Inter he scored 5 goals in 25 games.
The problem with threads like this is that when someone says a player is overrated, people interpret that as saying he's crap, and therefore jump to his defence. Of course Bergkamp isn't crap, and no one is saying that. He was capable of the magical, and the utterly sublime.
But he is overrated, if people are calling him the fifteenth best player of all time. If I said Rooney was the best player in the world, bar none, then I'd be overrating him severely. But if someone called me out on that it wouldn't mean they were saying he was a bad or average player.
But he is overrated, if people are calling him the fifteenth best player of all time. If I said Rooney was the best player in the world, bar none, then I'd be overrating him severely. But if someone called me out on that it wouldn't mean they were saying he was a bad or average player.
He was talking about Ronaldo at Inter
I'm aware of Bergkamp flopping at Inter, the discussion was on Ronaldo though. For a moment there I thought you had lost your marblesErm at Inter he was shit, nearly to Taibi's level shit. His second season was so terrible that one newspaper renamed its 'asino della settimana' (ie the donkey of the week meant for the worst performers) into the Berkamp della settimana.
The Inter fans used to judge him as a softie. Maybe there's a reason why he became an Arsenal legend....
Ronaldo also scored the most Premier League goals in the last 17 seasons 07-08 so it's not as if he's Messi in that regard.
Surely when someone says "That goal by Bergkamp" they must be talking about this...
DENNIS BERGKAMP!!!!!!!
Seriously, it's magnificent. One of the all time great world cup goals.
DENNIS BERGKAMP!!!!!!!
Seriously, it's magnificent. One of the all time great world cup goals.
It is one of the best goals I've seen. Who the feck plucks a 70yrd ball out the air like that, with a defender on him? Not quite over the shoulder but the ball comes across him. Amazing technique. Better than Zidane's control at Euro 2000.
I thought THAT was the goal, then it turned out there were two or three THAT goals
A feat in line with him being a contender for Top 10 ever, but we are comparing him to the real Ronaldo here, and no striker in those 17 years got anywhere near him.
Oh sorryI'm aware of Bergkamp flopping at Inter, the discussion was on Ronaldo though. For a moment there I thought you had lost your marbles
He actually wasnt overrated, before his knee injury he was probably the best centre forward on the planet. Even after his injuries he still maintained a good scoring record. He was quality.
People really get a bit confused with talented and great. He wasn't even nearly great. Or possibly just about. You could see clips of Frank Worthington or Tony Currie and they;d look "great". The difference was the crap sides they played for and in those days were regarded as "fancy Dans". With agents sniffing around now, they'd have clubs from Sheffield to Milan queueing up for them and then all you keyboard/stattos would be wetting yourselves at their "subliminess". Really, these guys had talent and in a decent team would've been awesome. A bit of a broad sweep but had Liverpool never bought Souness, which was a bit of a surprise, tosay the least, he would've fallen into the same category, forever. A talented no-mark like the aforementioned.
Couldn't be arsed with the whole thread but some of the names ahead of a true great like Charlton are laughable. I understand the readership here is a bit teeny but surely some must've heard of Tom Finney, or Matthews. Both before even my time but really. Even a good list put up by somebody with Eusebio in 3rd place above Charlton is ludicrous. I loved Eusebio but he wasn't a patch on Sir Robert, who could do all of what Eusebio could do and a lot more - and what everyone forgets is that Bobby wasn't even a striker.
With agents sniffing around now, they'd have clubs from Sheffield to Milan queueing up for them and then all you keyboard/stattos would be wetting yourselves at their "subliminess". Really, these guys had talent and in a decent team would've been awesome. A bit of a broad sweep but had Liverpool never bought Souness, which was a bit of a surprise, tosay the least, he would've fallen into the same category, forever. A talented no-mark like the aforementioned.Couldn't be arsed with the whole thread but some of the names ahead of a true great like Charlton are laughable. I understand the readership here is a bit teeny but surely some must've heard of Tom Finney, or Matthews. Both before even my time but really. Even a good list put up by somebody with Eusebio in 3rd place above Charlton is ludicrous. I loved Eusebio but he wasn't a patch on Sir Robert, who could do all of what Eusebio could do and a lot more - and what everyone forgets is that Bobby wasn't even a striker.
They aren't.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing, only stating that Ronaldo's current record is only a natural improvement to what he did 5-6 years ago in a different (much tougher) league. For what it's worth I think C.Ronaldo will be regarded higher than Fat Ronaldo, but if he had a career ending injury tomorrow the latter would probably arguably edge it. Likewise if Fat Ronaldo didn't get any injuries I think he'd be talked about in the same breath as Maradona.
The reference to Messi (unlike Ronaldo) is that for him to be remembered as the best he will have to (continue to) do it for his Country, as they'll always be the people who doubt he could perform the same if not part of the greater club side ever.
Also for thread relevance: Bergkamo was a Premier League top 10 player, but in terms of greatest players ever he would be quite far down the list, despite his orgasmic attributes.
I rate Bergkamp, in fact I rate him higher than Henry, which I think is more than most Arsenal fans do. But I rate him the way I rate most opposing players, according to how much damage he seemed capable of doing to us and my dread of him getting the ball. An elegant, clever player as well and that always helps.
I always make this point when people go on about old players. People are basically basing their opinions on other people's opinions, stories and a few clips.
As for Bergkamp. I thought he was brilliant.
A lot would agree, I don't but I wouldn't argue too much.
Due to the intense rivalry at the time, I hated all Arsenal players of that time. Despite that I loved watching Bergkamp play. It is a pity I couldn't do that with Henry, but I guess it more due to Bergkamp's style that I loved him.
Maybe he would have had more opportunities to showcase his skill if he wasn't scared of flying (not that he missed many matches)
Maybe he would have had more opportunities to showcase his skill if he wasn't scared of flying (not that he missed many matches)
Great player, terrible hair.
Good player was Beavis (or was he Butt-Head?).
Not sure I have anything to contribute to this but here goes anyway...
Bergkamp, in terms of what he could do with a football, his vision, passing, finishing, close control was at times stunning, he is amongst my favourite playes and always made sure that I watched any Arsenal game that was on.
It is my opinion that he is what made those great Arsenal teams, he made them click, more so than Viera, Henry, Pires etc. You knew when he was out of the team you could spot it a mile away not that they couldn't be brilliant without him but he gave them something extra, in a team filled with that much talent and individual brilliance that really is saying a lot.
The counter argument to that is to say that it is easy to be an effective "10" with the likes of Henry, Pires, Ljungberg making space and Viera breaking from deep and weather or not he would of been as effective elsewhere not only on another Premiership team but any team in the world is another discussion entirely. I think he needed that Arsenal side to be as great as he was and they needed him. It probably makes him one of Arsenal's best players and indeed one of the better players the Premiership has seen.
When you look at it that way I think it is hard to make a case for him being over-rated particularly when so many would place Henry ahead of him not only for Arsenal but in the Premiership (this isn't me saying Henry is over-rated).
A beautiful player to watch play, I think that is why so many remember him so fondly. I don't think that is the same as overrating.
Bergkamp, in terms of what he could do with a football, his vision, passing, finishing, close control was at times stunning, he is amongst my favourite playes and always made sure that I watched any Arsenal game that was on.
It is my opinion that he is what made those great Arsenal teams, he made them click, more so than Viera, Henry, Pires etc. You knew when he was out of the team you could spot it a mile away not that they couldn't be brilliant without him but he gave them something extra, in a team filled with that much talent and individual brilliance that really is saying a lot.
The counter argument to that is to say that it is easy to be an effective "10" with the likes of Henry, Pires, Ljungberg making space and Viera breaking from deep and weather or not he would of been as effective elsewhere not only on another Premiership team but any team in the world is another discussion entirely. I think he needed that Arsenal side to be as great as he was and they needed him. It probably makes him one of Arsenal's best players and indeed one of the better players the Premiership has seen.
When you look at it that way I think it is hard to make a case for him being over-rated particularly when so many would place Henry ahead of him not only for Arsenal but in the Premiership (this isn't me saying Henry is over-rated).
A beautiful player to watch play, I think that is why so many remember him so fondly. I don't think that is the same as overrating.
No, it's a silly point to bring out from someone who seems to lack common sense.
The 25 thread was hardly to be taken seriously.
He gave Arsenal much more than goals.
I think Bergkamp was brilliant. Their Cantona and all that.
And Heskey didn't??
An interesting (yet ultimately pointless) debate would be: which one is better? The WC 98 goal against Argentina or the one against Newcastle? They're both from the absolute top drawer. Fantasy football goals.
Has to be the Argentina goal, given that it was against a world-class defender (Roberto Ayala), at the knockout stages of a major tournament, and provided the climax to one of the greatest World Cup matches of the modern era.
And that the way he controlled that ball was just fecking amazing! Much harder than the flick and turn.
I think that whole Arsenal team of late 90's early 00's were overrated. They won a few PL titles, and achieved fckall in Europe. Kept getting knocked out in the group stages or dumped by Valencia at the quarterfinal stage.
I thought the Arsenal team of the late 90s was brilliant. It's the invincibles that's overrated.
The feck? Here is a guy who spent 7 out of 12 seasons injured, yet won the Ballon D'or twice, the FIFA World Player of the year award 3 times, is the leading World Cup goalscorer of all time and has inspired a generation of fans across the globe.
Overrated, my arse. Best striker to have played the game, should have been so much more if it wasn't for the injuries.
I'd actually agree with that.
Absolutely immense striker; a reason to live. It's not really possible to overrate him.
statue being put up at emirates....think he was a great player but a statue seems OTT to me.
Not every club has a history as rich as Manchester United.
Bergkamp was just 'another player' in Inter, but became 'the' player in Arsenal side. A genius.
On the side issue about Luis Ronaldo; I dunno. I rate Romario and van Basten higher. They're more than just goals.
On the side issue about Luis Ronaldo; I dunno. I rate Romario and van Basten higher. They're more than just goals.