Which great players would do best in a poor side?

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
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Saw this thread in the newbies and it is an interesting debate. Agreed with some of the opinions there that Messi and Ronaldo are not necessarily the stand out names in this regard despite their talent.

Funnily enough i'd argue the younger version of Ronaldo and Messi would both improve poorer sides due to the hunger, pace and constant running with the ball.. that they had in their games when younger, whereas the more measured approach they have now is more suited to being finishers, decisive players in well-coached sophisticated teams - same could be said for a young Rooney.

Anyway, I think this can be split between greats from the past and the current players. Qualities I'd say are vital is that ability to just drive a game based on your own ability, regardless of the service around you... or from a defenders perspective, ability to marshal a defence in any type of side i.e. I think a Pique would struggle in this regard whereas a Puyol/Terry could improve any side at their peak.

Classic

Maradona - proved it domestically and internationally, not only could he win games on his own single-handed but had that quality to make his team mates look like world-beaters too, just by being on the same pitch as them. I think he is the pinnacle when it comes to a debate like this and the yardstick by which others should be measured.

George Best - I'm sure there are others which we will no doubt mention, but he definitely is a player who strikes me as being able to fit into any side and transforming the style and effectiveness of the side. No need for tactics or service when it comes to George, unplayable at his best.

Current

In terms of the modern game, I'd say the likes of Ribery, Suarez strike me as players who'd find a way of winning no matter what. Robben funnily enough has an insatiable appetite for running with the ball too, so he's another player I can see going into any side and his game wouldn't change for the worse.

Anyway, which others do you think have it in them.. defenders too please.
 
David Villa in his prime was lethal. After a few stars left Valencia he still continued to score a lot of goals too.
 
Interesting. The players who exclusively want the Number 10 role will struggle because their role is detached from team strategy defensively. Players like Ozil, Mata, Kagawa would be liabilities as the team has to function in a way to get the best out of them.

Suarez has the hunger and talent to pick the ball up from anywhere and drive forward, hence improving the standards of his team mates.
 
Ronaldo is the fairly obvious answer really! 60 goals a season, model professional, makes his own chances...don't think you could ask for one player more suited to improving a poor team. Helps that he is a selfish prick too!
 
Alan Shearer would be a very good example right? Tevez with West ham comes to mind as well.
 
The outstanding dribblers, they require so much attention from the opponents that it always makes it much easier for their team mates. It is why Maradona made his team mates look better, all they had to do was run in to mile-wide space as Maradona had two-three markers on him who had to leave their defensive positioning to handle him. He was primarily known for never losing the ball, which forced so many markers on him - yet he always found that pass in to the free space they had just left behind them.

Messi would have been better if he used his attributes like Maradona, they have near identical ones but Messi uses it in a much more selfish/poster boy way. I think his teams was always going to be better off with him out wide even.

Messi, Brazilian Ronaldo, Cruyff, Best, Garrincha, Meazza, Leonidas Da Silva and so forth have/had similar attributes. It is much harder for a midfielder/defender to do the same thing no matter how good they are.
 
Steve Bull, who already achieved this. Regarded as the best in his league but his loyalty to the club (Wolves) kept him there until his career ended. 306 goals, 18 hat tricks 9 goals for England.
 
Ronaldo is the fairly obvious answer really! 60 goals a season, model professional, makes his own chances...don't think you could ask for one player more suited to improving a poor team. Helps that he is a selfish prick too!

Did you miss the Germany match or something?

Ronaldo can't do anything without service.
 
Van persie did in 11/12 at arsenal. David villa was good for Valencia when they were having some poor seasons. Van nistlerooy carried Madrid in 06/07 along with casillas to the title which was a really average team with diarra, emerson and guti in midfield and robinho (only scored 6 that season) and reyes on the wings and raul up front (who only scored 7 league goals that season).
 
Roy Keane deserves a mention. Lifted the team both with his work rate and his determined personality.

I've always thought the midfield pass masters have been the most important in a team because of their ability to glue a side together by controlling the play. I'll have to go with Iniesta and Pirlo. Pirlo always seems to stand out for Italy when he plays, at least. Laughably good in the Euros two years ago and looked pretty untouchable against England too. As much as it annoys me, Suarez is a proper talismanic player too. Zlatan's league record over the past decade speaks for itself.
 
Ronaldo is the fairly obvious answer really! 60 goals a season, model professional, makes his own chances...don't think you could ask for one player more suited to improving a poor team. Helps that he is a selfish prick too!
I'd say almost the opposite.

Ronaldo relies on the service of Di Maria, Bale and a few others. Benzema certainly plays more of a supporting role than he did at Lyon.

Yes Ronaldo scores a fair few crackers but he scores a load of goals like the one he got against us at OT the year before last purely because of the great service.
 
I'd say almost the opposite.

Ronaldo relies on the service of Di Maria, Bale and a few others. Benzema certainly plays more of a supporting role than he did at Lyon.

Yes Ronaldo scores a fair few crackers but he scores a load of goals like the one he got against us at OT the year before last purely because of the great service.


I agree.
 
I'd say almost the opposite.

Ronaldo relies on the service of Di Maria, Bale and a few others. Benzema certainly plays more of a supporting role than he did at Lyon.

Yes Ronaldo scores a fair few crackers but he scores a load of goals like the one he got against us at OT the year before last purely because of the great service.

Even though Ronaldo has done well for Portugal, when things have really gone against Portugal, Ronaldo disappears. So it shows even Ronaldo I do not think could really do a Zidane 2006 in terms of driving them to the very final, if you do lot include the headbutt. Not even messi has been able to be the driving force for Argentina, in the way Zidane and Maradona have done for France and Argentina
 
Steve Bull, who already achieved this. Regarded as the best in his league but his loyalty to the club (Wolves) kept him there until his career ended. 306 goals, 18 hat tricks 9 goals for England.
Brilliant call, loved watching wolves purely to see bull play in the days before I had sky and the first division was on terrestrial tv
 
Ronaldo- His all round game transforms teams and he's able to influence a teams play in practically every position. When he was at inter he literally tried to influence play in almost every position. It was fantastic to watch.

Maradona- He can start attacks basically by himself. Doesn't matter much where he gets the ball he'll turn those situations into dangerous ones.

Zidane- The sort of player that's almost impossible to disposes is very useful in poor teams. He's the sort of outlet that the poor players can always give the ball and then the pressure by the opponent is instantly reduced.

Luis suarez- his fighting spirit is undoubted. He's also one of those that are able to influence matches from almost any position. His turning on the ball makes it relatively easy for him to get things going in tough situations.
 
This thread is lacking in Zlatan mentions. Watch his last season at AC Milan and a lot of his performances for Sweden.
 
You guys have missed the most obvious candidate for this thread.
Captain Fantastic. The greatest Liverpudlian of all time. The Scouse Le Tissier. Phil Collins' biggest stan. Stephen Gerrard. At his peak with his engine, running from deep, versatility and propensity to shoot from any distance after the centre circle he is the one man you would need. You need a selfish player with a huge ego to carry a team. Someone who is willing to take risks with the ball. Someone with a messiah complex. Someone who will do anything to win. See FA Cup final 2006 and CL 2005 for further information.
 
Inter under Mancini and in Jose's 1st season were so crap they need Zlatan to win titles even though they only had competition from Roma only. Milan, Juve and Fiorentina were still reeling from Calciopoli.
 
Drogba was a guy who never really played on a poor team during his prime, but at his best, he could take over a game and score from in close with great movement and pace or from outside the box. I think he would have done alright in a poor side

What about Mendieta at Valencia? Midfielder, and I barely remember watching him play, but I just remember seeing him a couple times in his prime when he completely dominated matches
 
Steven Gerrard did it for years at the Dippers - they wouldn't have won the CL or that FA Cup without him, lets face it
 
Just a thought, but most people seem to be naming people who did play for poor sides. Surely the question is asking which great players (that play for top clubs) would be able to still perform at their level in a lesser side?

Everyone is naming Maradona, Best (national team), Suarez & Gerrard. Perhaps I misunderstood though!
 
I bet Van Persie would be 25 goal a season striker with any team in the Premier League.
 
You guys have missed the most obvious candidate for this thread.
Captain Fantastic. The greatest Liverpudlian of all time. The Scouse Le Tissier. Phil Collins' biggest stan. Stephen Gerrard. At his peak with his engine, running from deep, versatility and propensity to shoot from any distance after the centre circle he is the one man you would need. You need a selfish player with a huge ego to carry a team. Someone who is willing to take risks with the ball. Someone with a messiah complex. Someone who will do anything to win. See FA Cup final 2006 and CL 2005 for further information.

:lol: And a good sense of humour when the going gets tough vs Chelsea.
 
You guys have missed the most obvious candidate for this thread.
Captain Fantastic. The greatest Liverpudlian of all time. The Scouse Le Tissier. Phil Collins' biggest stan. Stephen Gerrard. At his peak with his engine, running from deep, versatility and propensity to shoot from any distance after the centre circle he is the one man you would need. You need a selfish player with a huge ego to carry a team. Someone who is willing to take risks with the ball. Someone with a messiah complex. Someone who will do anything to win. See FA Cup final 2006 and CL 2005 for further information.

:lol:
 
One man wrecking balls who you could lump it up to and they'd create magic. Cristiano, Batistuta, Bale. But all pale in comparison to Fellaini, obviously.
 
Roy Keane deserves a mention. Lifted the team both with his work rate and his determined personality.

I've always thought the midfield pass masters have been the most important in a team because of their ability to glue a side together by controlling the play. I'll have to go with Iniesta and Pirlo. Pirlo always seems to stand out for Italy when he plays, at least. Laughably good in the Euros two years ago and looked pretty untouchable against England too. As much as it annoys me, Suarez is a proper talismanic player too. Zlatan's league record over the past decade speaks for itself.

Good shout. Ireland weren't exactly a poor side for much of Keane's career but they were hardly world beaters either, and Keane's best performances for Ireland were every bit as good as his peak Utd form.