Potential English Targets

Devil may care

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With the Dyke rule possibly coming into effect it got me wondering if we had to, what English talent would you like to see us go for to meet any potential quota regulations?

I think we'd like to avoid the City route of buying players like Rodwell and Sinclair just to pad out the quota and not actually use them most of the time. I think right now there are some good young English players coming through like John Stones, James Ward-Prowse and of course Harry Kane that would be worth monitoring from United's perspective.
 
Well those three are the only ones that are attainable and can be good enough for us I guess.
 
I actually rate Berahino a lot. I think he'd be a very good signing for us, at the right price(10-15m).
 
This is about the worst thing that could happen regarding the development of future English players IMHO. You only have to look at how overpriced English footballers already are by their greedy agents and how those agents treat loyalty to existing clubs when it comes to contract renewal time (although a big talent Sterling comes to mind).

For gods sake can't Dyke see that it's this home grown rule that has led to this situation of overpriced young English talent getting ignored for cheaper but more technically adept international alternatives?

Add in the fact that, after the ruling, a particular agent will be well aware that a club is desperate to reach it's "home-grown" allocation and will be able to virtually hold that club to ransom.

I think what will happen is that clubs lower down the Premier League with smaller pockets will ignore the kind of overpriced talent that this ruling will create (but is supposed to be developing) and fish in cheaper lower league ponds just to make up the numbers with no real expectation of ever bringing these players on through. These enforced purchase players will seldom see any football and the "English" game will be set back even further at International level (through lack of opportunity) and club level (through a watering down of the talent on show).

… and, let's remember, all this comes after our already qualified U21 side recently beat the Germans; during a period of (admittedly slowly) growing belief in the full international squad and signs of it's blossoming strength-in-depth; and undoubtedly one of the most exciting seasons the Premier League has even seen for years, with strength and competitive games every week and real upsets from top to bottom!

If it ain't broke … :nono:
 
Yup, I really like John Stones too. He has the cool Rio Ferdinand type of demeanor about him, very quick of foot, fancy on the ball and reportedly has a sound head on his shoulders. And Harry Kane, of course. He has the chance to be something truly special if he keeps developing and adding new tricks to his armory. Would actually love to see them turn out in a United shirt. However, in fairness to them, I think it'd be best for the players to develop at a calmer pace at Everton and Tottenham for atleast a couple more seasons. Moving from even a historically Top 6 or thereabouts club to United can be a massive shock to the system and a lot of times, these players can't handle the pressure at that ahe. They are very young still, so staying put a bit longer would do them no harm.

Patrick Roberts from Fulham or Max Clark from Hull City or Will Hughes from Derby are ideally the type of player we should be looking at. Very young, could slot into the youth or reserve teams and develop without too much pressure, big scope for improvement and perhaps most importantly, since they're still quite impressionable, we can bring them along in the United way. I'd much rather we stockpile young U-17 or U-20 English talent and develop them in our setup than spend extravagantly disproportionate amounts of money on mid table players who're already kind of set in their ways.
 
The FA are ran by complete fecking idiots. This rule will probably end up being counter productive for English/home grown players as the top clubs clean up all of them and then rot them on the bench, when they could be getting more valuable game time playing for the other clubs.
 
Think we have Rooney, Shaw and Smalling as really good English talent. tge rest of our home grown and English are average and we could be doing with replacing then with higher quality.
 
Lawman said:
Think we have Rooney, Shaw and Smalling as really good English talent. tge rest of our home grown and English are average and we could be doing with replacing then with higher quality.
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Wilson too ! :)
 
The rule is stupid, but I guess that's besides the point.

If possible, Stones is no 1, but Kane and Clyne would be too. As important as any signing though, chuck Wilson in. 2nd choice behind Rooney, give him a proper go and see what happens.
 
Butland
Clyne
Dier
Stones
garbutt
Hughes
Ward-prowse
Barkley
Berahino
Ings
Kane

Plus stirling ox and chambers should they ever become available

In guess the problem is chelsea arsenal city spurs Liverpool are also going to want these players pushing their price up even more than the English premium we currently associate with good young players.

Ings for a couple of hundred grand compo would be great though... Afterall he couldn't be worse than falcao this season
 
Barkley for me. Have said for a year that I can see him becoming a world class PL #8, potentially the best ever. He is a good 10, but the PL always has a place for strong, powerful central midfielders who can drive forward and hit long rangers. If he were black I think more Toure comparisons would be made.
 
The quota even if passed through is only applicable for 2020 onwards so it's quite pointless to discuss right now tbh.

Right now we already have Shaw,Wilson and Jones as players who are still at good age by then so I don't see any reason to worry in our side.By 2020 even Angel Gomes will be 20 years old so it's impossible to predict how the squad will turn out to be.

Ward-Prowse isn't good enough.There are better English CM talents out there like Lewis Cook.I actually rate some of our own higher than him (Ward-Prowse).

England has a lot of good talents from 1996 to 1999 age group so get a few of them in wouldn't be the worse idea in the world.I would even say poach some of the Chelsea's youngsters after they realized that Chelsea wouldn't give them real chances.
 
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Rozay said:
Barkley for me. Have said for a year that I can see him becoming a world class PL #8, potentially the best ever. He is a good 10, but the PL always has a place for strong, powerful central midfielders who can drive forward and hit long rangers. If he were black I think more Toure comparisons would be made.
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I do think he will long term be a better 8 than 10
As for you're comparisons I actually think he reminds me more of a stronger fabregas but yes there is obviously that driving through aspect of his game that is similar to Toure (which is probably why he is so often linked to city as a replacement / successor)
 
Stones and Clyne are guys I think we should be looking at this summer.If Kane keeps scoring goals at this rate and Barkley rediscovers his form from last season those are also guys we should be looking at. Plus we should track the development of the likes of James Ward Prowse, Will Hughes, Joe Gomez are players we should keep our eyes on.
 
Earthquake said:
The rule is stupid, but I guess that's besides the point.

If possible, Stones is no 1, but Kane and Clyne would be too. As important as any signing though, chuck Wilson in. 2nd choice behind Rooney, give him a proper go and see what happens.
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Same sort of thing worked really well for Germany though, where clubs are required to have a minimum of 12 German players in their squad.
 
Barkley is probably the one you could imagine in our first 11 at some point, in the role Fellaini has been playing lately.
 
Will Hughes should be the first name on the shortlist if we are looking young english players. Easily the most talented player(behind Ravel but thats story is finished for us) england has if we dont count established players(Wilshere). The football brain this kid has is unbelievable, almost every decision he makes on the field is a correct one and has the ability to control the game(which is a rare quality). But he will probably end up in Liverpool :(
 
Sell Evans and get Stones. Clyne looks solid too.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Will Hughes should be the first name on the shortlist if we are looking young english players. Easily the most talented player(behind Ravel but thats story is finished for us) england has if we dont count established players(Wilshere). The football brain this kid has is unbelievable, almost every decision he makes on the field is a correct one and has the ability to control the game(which is a rare quality). But he will probably end up in Liverpool :(
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Very strange post. Hughes isn't even close to being the most talented and Wilshire might not even be a starter for England at this point, too many injuries and a lack of progress. Hughes is yet to do the business consistantly in the Championship let alone anywhere else. In the Championship and for England International youth sides, Nathan Redmond is miles ahead
 
Stones and Barkley for me.

Clyne looks as average as you can get tbh. Hope we avoid him.
 
Ekeke said:
Very strange post. Hughes isn't even close to being the most talented and Wilshire might not even be a starter for England at this point, too many injuries and a lack of progress. Hughes is yet to do the business consistantly in the Championship let alone anywhere else. In the Championship and for England International youth sides, Nathan Redmond is miles ahead
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Don't they play different positions?
 
Ekeke said:
Very strange post. Hughes isn't even close to being the most talented and Wilshire might not even be a starter for England at this point, too many injuries and a lack of progress. Hughes is yet to do the business consistantly in the Championship let alone anywhere else. In the Championship and for England International youth sides, Nathan Redmond is miles ahead
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Wilshere might not be the starter but thats because he is made of glass, talent wise he is up there....
As for Redmond and Hughes, i like Redmond but talent wise he is behind Hughes. He might be better at the moment(altough im not sure he is) but he pretty much depends on himself and plays much easier position while Hughes game depends on his teammates also and its difficult for him as his teammates are not that smart.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Wilshere might not be the starter but thats because he is made of glass, talent wise he is up there....
As for Redmond and Hughes, i like Redmond but talent wise he is behind Hughes. He might be better at the moment(altough im not sure he is) but he pretty much depends on himself and plays much easier position while Hughes game depends on his teammates also and its difficult for him as his teammates are not that smart.
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Well he is better at the moment thats obvious, he's the star of the England under 21s game after game and is easily the best young player in the league. Hughes isnt even the best midfielder at Derby yet let alone anywhere else. Thorne outshone him last season and Mascarell this season
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Wilshere might not be the starter but thats because he is made of glass, talent wise he is up there....
As for Redmond and Hughes, i like Redmond but talent wise he is behind Hughes. He might be better at the moment(altough im not sure he is) but he pretty much depends on himself and plays much easier position while Hughes game depends on his teammates also and its difficult for him as his teammates are not that smart.
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Have to disagree.Redmond is more talented than Hughes IMO.In terms of young players outside of top clubs:Gray(Birmingham),Cook(Leeds),Roberts(Fulham),Armstrong(Newcastle),Tyler Roberts(WBA),Joe Gomez(Charlton) and Reece Oxford (West Ham) are those that have potential to be good enough for us IMO.Obviously Stones as well.Dozzell (Ipswich) seems very good as well but he's very young.

If we can get about 5 British players from the academy (Johnstone as number 2 GK for example) + those already at the club + around 4-5 players out of these names or others (might be more established like Sterling) we would make it by 2020 in case that ridiculous rule is applied.
 
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khoazany said:
Have to disagree.Redmond is more talented than Hughes IMO.In terms of young players outside of top clubs:Gray(Birmingham),Cook(Leeds),Roberts(Fulham),Armstrong(Newcastle),Tyler Roberts(WBA),Joe Gomez(Charlton) and Reece Oxford (West Ham) are those that have potential to be good enough for us IMO.Obviously Stones as well.Dozzell (Ipswich) seems very good as well but he's very young.
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Hughes is a far more cultured player than Redmond imo. I think hes pretty one dimensional in comparison to Hughes.

Not sure either will be good enough btw.
 
Ekeke said:
Well he is better at the moment thats obvious, he's the star of the England under 21s game after game and is easily the best young player in the league. Hughes isnt even the best midfielder at Derby yet let alone anywhere else
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no its not obvious, Hughes regularly play very good for U21 just like Redmond....the other comment is laughable, but lets not go there because its pointless as i posted in my first post that i think Hughes is the most talented youngster and not the best one, there is a big difference.

@khoazany we will agree to disagree, time will tell :) as for the other players you mentioned, only watched Roberts(Fulham) and he is very good, would take him without even thinking about it. As for other young players, the kid from Arsenal looks brilliant, Dan Crowley.
 
Stones, Sterling and Kane are the only English players which are good enough to start for us (either now, or in future). I hope we get interested for them, and getting Stones shouldn't be that difficult if we want (although there are better alternatives).

Clyne might do a job as a backup player, but I don't think that he is good enough to start for us.

Wouldn't touch the other young English players (unless we really need the quota but haven't checked for that). Barkley is braindead, Berahino/Ings IMO aren't near good enough for a top 4 team, Wilshere always injured and Herrera is better anyway.

Edit: checking at homegrown players - Rafael, Smalling, McNair, Jones, Evans, Shaw, Carrick, Pereira, Januzaj, Rooney, Wilson. Add a third keeper there and we are ok. Lets say that Rafael and Evans will leave in the next season, and we will need two 'homegrown' players. Probably we an just promote someone (especially if Van Gaal goes for 21-22 players for the squad) just to make the numbers.

I don't think that we are in the position when we must sign English players to make the quota. If there are good ones cool, otherwise, go for better alternatives outside of England.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
no its not obvious, Hughes regularly play very good for U21 just like Redmond....the other comment is laughable, but lets not go there because its pointless as i posted in my first post that i think Hughes is the most talented youngster and not the best one, there is a big difference.

@khoazany we will agree to disagree, time will tell :) as for the other players you mentioned, only watched Roberts(Fulham) and he is very good, would take him without even thinking about it. As for other young players, the kid from Arsenal looks brilliant, Dan Crowley.
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Yeah Crowley is very good but I'm talking about players outside of big clubs which is much easier to get.For those that already at big clubs,Sterling+Ibe+Ojo+Dhanda(Liverpool),Jay Dasilva+Solanke+RLC+Colkett (Chelsea),Crowley+both Willock (Arsenal),Edwards+Carter-Vickers (Spurs) are those that we should aim for if they have issues with their club.
 
Rozay said:
Barkley for me. Have said for a year that I can see him becoming a world class PL #8, potentially the best ever. He is a good 10, but the PL always has a place for strong, powerful central midfielders who can drive forward and hit long rangers. If he were black I think more Toure comparisons would be made.
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I think that it is dead cert that he'll become the best sportsman ever, with a hige shot on being the best human ever.
 
Revan said:
Stones, Sterling and Kane are the only English players which are good enough to start for us (either now, or in future). I hope we get interested for them, and getting Stones shouldn't be that difficult if we want (although there are better alternatives).

Clyne might do a job as a backup player, but I don't think that he is good enough to start for us.

Wouldn't touch the other young English players (unless we really need the quota but haven't checked for that). Barkley is braindead, Berahino/Ings IMO aren't near good enough for a top 4 team, Wilshere always injured and Herrera is better anyway.

Edit: checking at homegrown players - Rafael, Smalling, McNair, Jones, Evans, Shaw, Carrick, Pereira, Januzaj, Rooney, Wilson. Add a third keeper there and we are ok. Lets say that Rafael and Evans will leave in the next season, and we will need two 'homegrown' players. Probably we an just promote someone (especially if Van Gaal goes for 21-22 players for the squad) just to make the numbers.

I don't think that we are in the position when we must sign English players to make the quota. If there are good ones cool, otherwise, go for better alternatives outside of England.
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The problem is with the new proposal,you have to be at the country for 3 years from 15-18 years old to be counted as homegrown so Januzaj Pereira Rafael won't be counted.
 
Well, didn't know that the rules are from 2020. So, I guess the discussion is quite pointless now. What we should do is to poach some promising players on the agegroup of 13-17.
 
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