Sheep Draft R1 - Mazhar13 v Edgar Allan Pillow/ctp

[Gio]

TEAM MAZHAR13​

Formation: 4-2-3-1

The team's general approach is to take full control of the game and ensure that EAP/ctp's team have no time on the ball to do anything. It is very likely that the team with more control of the game wins the match, and that is what my team will seek to do.

The defence will push up when in possession of the ball, pegging back the opposing team and preventing them from pushing up, pegging us back, and making their attacking players get into their game. If there's any concern about a high defensive line when on the ball, there shouldn't be. My back four are well-accustomed to pushing up and recovering themselves accordingly. All four defensive players were great athletes with high energy levels and speed. All four players are also well-accustomed to pressing the opposition and winning the ball quickly with their strength, tackling, tight man-marking, and strong reading of the game.

In the midfield, I have the energy, tenacity, and tactical awareness to ensure that my midfield won't get overrun. Stielike and Castellazzi are a perfect partnership. Castellazzi will be the anchor man, sitting back and doing the dirty work whilst allowing Stielike and Genghini to express themselves. Stielike, with his skill, energy levels, and vision, will be key for our build-ups and in playing players into spaces, and Genghini, with his class on the ball, will look to open up defences, whether by supplying others or going for goal himself.

Such a strong foundation can only be good for the front 3 that I employ, which consists of everything to break down defences. Matthews will be my traditional winger who'll stretch defences and provide trickery, pace, and directness. Schiaffino, on the left, will look to pull the full back away and then cut inside into the space when he can. Hasselbaink, with his strength, skill on the ball, aerial prowess, and prolific finishing, will look to latch onto any of the final passes from players around him as well as link up and supply the runners (Genghini, Schiaffino, or Matthews). Genghini, with his directness, movement, and finishing ability, will be the perfect foil for Hasselbaink as well.

Why I will win:
- EAP/ctp's defence is too weak when compared to the attack that I have. Moore will be the very obvious weak point there, and with no midfielder around to sufficiently support his game, my attack will have some fun in this match.

- My team is filled with superb athletes and extremely fit players from the back to the front. At worst, my team will run EAP/ctp's team ragged and win through sheer athleticism.

- My team's well-balanced, even with a "sheep" in the team (though Quirarte really isn't a sheep when compared to some other sheep that were handed out). I have a strong defensive foundation to allow my attacking players to play their game, and my attack has a variety of ways to open up the opposition, whether through wing play, through the middle, a quick counter-attack, or after a sustained period of possession.

Link to player profiles (covers two posts)

TEAM EDGAR ALLAN PILLOW / CTP​

A compact defensive set up with Frank de Boers playing a tucked in role where he primarily supports Craig Moore and reinforces the back line. Frank started his career at left back before moving to his more famous sweeper role. Here he'll be a perfect fit for this role. Sandwiched between Frank de Boer and the great Luis Pereira, Moore will have all the support he needs.

Luis Monti the old skool half back powers the midfield. Known as 'Double Wide' for his knack of covering both ends of the pitch,he'll give a powerhouse performance in this match. With Lupu providing defensive support ,Monti will have the freedom to cause havoc. Nobody messes with old school half backs and their ability to run a midfield. Ahead of him is the brilliant Dzajic whose electric runs will be a perfect foil to Monti's tenacity.

The key component of my midfield is the ability of Socrates and Eusebio to operate deeper than most other #10 and strikers. In the famed Brazilian team, Zico played a more attacking role with Socrates pulling strings from deep... A role that'll be perfect here.

Eusebio gets his favourite role here. Free roaming behind the striker, space to pick balls deep and run at defence, superb support from Socrates and Gerets.. He's well placed for a Man of the Match Performance.

Sarosi is the perfect striker for this set up. He's got the flexibility to operate as a sole striker or drop back and create opportunities for Dzagic and Eusebio. The movement and interplay between him, Eusebio and Socrates will be hard for any defence to handle. Bronze ball in 1934 WC, 5th highest goal scorer for Hungarian National team his talents will be the final fit to spearhead my attack.

My opponent's key players are Schiaffino and Stanley Matthews at wide forward positions. This is offset by playing in a tucked in back 3 and a defensive Lupo in front. When we don't have the ball, the defence will squeeze into a compact unit. Gerets is the best fullback on the pitch and will be the deciding factor to our advantage.

 

[Gio]

Good luck lads. This should be a tasty game.

@mazhar13
@Edgar Allan Pillow
@ctp

 

[ctp]

Let's kick this off with some Brazilian magic - Sócrates:

 

[mazhar13]

The hell is that arrow doing on Castellazzi? I didn't put that in there!

 

[Gio]

The hell is that arrow doing on Castellazzi? I didn't put that in there!

That's what's in the PM, but I can update it if you want to resubmit it. Stan might have an extra redundant arrow by the look of it too.

 

[mazhar13]

I see that The Wizard of the Dribble is going to have an absolute field day over here. Frank de Boer has to close him down. Give him too much time, and he'll deliver delicious crosses for Hasselbaink and co. With that in mind, de Boer cannot afford to tuck inside to protect Moore, leaving my attack with ample opportunities to exploit that weakness.

Also, why is Lupu, a more offensive midfielder, playing such a defensive role? He's clearly not suited to it at all. There's no way that he'll be able to shield the defence and allow Monti to play his game. Here is yet another chance for my team to clearly run riot against the opposition.

Finally, with my team playing so aggressively and making sure that the opposition get no time on the ball (with my many athletic players in the side), there's no way that Socrates, Dzajic, and Eusebio will be able to cause my defence many problems. Matthews, Genghini, and Stielike will make sure that their deeper ball players won't get time on the ball to really hurt us We'll clearly make sure that they try to hoof the ball forward, where Charles, Quirarte, and Netto all very strong in the air.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

All four players are also well-accustomed to pressing the opposition

How did you get to this? Care to provide any evidence to this?

My team's well-balanced, even with a "sheep" in the team (though Quirarte really isn't a sheep when compared to some other sheep that were handed out).

Seriously? I know we are comparing sheep here but still... Moore is a Rangers legend and team Captain. 5 x Scottish Premier League winner. 4 x Scottish Cup winner. 3 x Scottish League Cup winner. And here he is in a defensive role well shielded on either side by Frank de Boer and Luis Pereira with Luis Monti ahead of him. Sheep, yes...but one well protected by tactics and team. And what does Quirarte has to show in return?

there's no way that Socrates, Dzajic, and Eusebio will be able to cause my defence many problems.

You are playing a sheep in a 'open and pressing' game!!!!! which frankly is one way I'd definitely avoid playing a sheep...more so when facing Eusebio & Sarosi. In such a open setup you are playing he'd get taken apart here and I'm not being ott. Definitely a liability and easy path for my attackers to exploit.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Castellazzi will be the anchor man, sitting back and doing the dirty work whilst allowing Stielike and Genghini to express themselves.

Come on, I can understand hyping up players...but this surely borders on the ridiculous. Castellazi & Genghini are nowhere near special. I can't even remember them doing anything noteworthy tbh. Genghini is shielding another sheep in Quirate. Do you seriously think Genghini and Quirate are going to stop Eusebio and Socrates?

Schiaffino, on the left, will look to pull the full back away and then cut inside into the space when he can.

It's been perfectly countered by having Frank de Boer play a tucked in defensive role. My tucked in formation will not let that happen and your strategy here is effectively countered. There will be no spaces for him to exploit easily.

there's no way that Socrates, Dzajic, and Eusebio will be able to cause my defence many problems.

Who's handling Socrates? He is leagues better than Genghini. He'll just drop deeper and dictate play from there with no one to stop him. Eusebio running at your defence from deep is not going to be stopped by your midfield.

 

[mazhar13]

How did you get to this? Care to provide any evidence to this?

Benarrivo, Charles, Quirarte, and Netto are all players who are accustomed to pressing the opposition and using their athleticism and aggression to win the ball. Benarrivo, as a wing back, had to play an aggressive, tight game to make sure whoever he faced wouldn't have too much time on the ball. Charles is fast and strong, and this made him a tough opponent for whoever faced him. Quirarte was a part of an aggressive, high-pressing 1986 Mexico team at the World Cup that stopped a Belgium team with Jan Ceulemans and Enzo Scifo in the team. He kept a clean sheet against a West Germany side with Rummenigge, Klaus Allofs, Dieter Hoeness, Thomas Berthold, Pierre Littbarski, Lothar Matthaus, and Andreas Brehme, even frustrating Berthold enough to get him sent off (it was Berthold who committed a naughty challenge on Quirarte to get himself sent off). Netto was a part of a great Spartak team built around keeping distances between teammates short, and his defending was such that players didn't have a way to get past him or open up his team.

Again, I'll link the Netto video here for everyone to view:

This is against a team with such talented attacking players as Sekularac, Galic, and Kostic.

Seriously? I know we are comparing sheep here but still... Moore is a Rangers legend and team Captain. 5 x Scottish Premier League winner. 4 x Scottish Cup winner. 3 x Scottish League Cup winner. And here he is in a defensive role well shielded on either side by Frank de Boer and Luis Pereira with Luis Monti ahead of him. Sheep, yes...but one well protected by tactics and team. And what does Quirarte has to show in return?

Quirarte had Mexico concede only three goals at the World Cup, and his team faced attacking sides that were stronger than what Moore faced. Moore only had Celtic to deal with that was a strong opposition in the SPL, and Rangers didn't fare that well in Europe against strong defences. Even then, Moore wasn't their main starting defender during his time with Rangers. He was always the third central defender in both of his Rangers spells. So much for a Rangers legend.

You are playing a sheep in a 'open and pressing' game!!!!! which frankly is one way I'd definitely avoid playing a sheep...more so when facing Eusebio & Sarosi. In such a open setup you are playing he'd get taken apart here and I'm not being ott. Definitely a liability and easy path for my attackers to exploit.

Open and attacking? Yes, but do you really think that your team will ever get time on the ball? My team is filled with athletes that will prevent your players from ever getting much time on the ball. My players will choke your players out of any space that they have, and there's no way your team can really sustain possession. With Lupu in a defensive midfield role, it's effectively a 2 vs. 3 to my advantage in midfield. Plus, you're clearly ignoring Stanley Matthews here. You know that you have no plan against him. Leave de Boer in a more central role to support Moore, and Matthews will destroy your team.

 

[mazhar13]

Come on, I can understand hyping up players...but this surely borders on the ridiculous. Castellazi & Genghini are nowhere near special. I can't even remember them doing anything noteworthy tbh. Genghini is shielding another sheep in Quirate. Do you seriously think Genghini and Quirate are going to stop Eusebio and Socrates?

Genghini? Do you not notice Stielike in his best role here? Genghini will be the one pressing high up the pitch, suffocating your deeper players and preventing them from starting off attacks. Castellazi has Stielike beside him, and both of them together make for a very solid midfield. Castellazzi was a very accomplished half back for Inter, winning the Scudetto with them and shielding their defence with his tactical awareness and energy in the team. Stielike did likewise for Monchengladbach and Real Madrid whilst being an effective libero for Germany. Genghini here is given a solid platform to play his attacking game unlike in France when he played beside Tigana in a deeper role.

It's been perfectly countered by having Frank de Boer play a tucked in defensive role. My tucked in formation will not let that happen and your strategy here is effectively countered. There will be no spaces for him to exploit easily.

Again, what are you going to do about Matthews? Plus, Frank is a left back. How will he ever encounter Schiaffino? What's Gerets going to do against such a great attacking player all by himself? Schiaffino has always been someone who pulls full backs out, takes them on, and occupies their mind. Then, when they don't know it, he'll cut inside into space and score goals or create chances. Luis Pereira will have to be very wary of Schiaffino, especially with Hasselbaink and Genghini going about as well.

Who's handling Socrates? He is leagues better than Genghini. He'll just drop deeper and dictate play from there with no one to stop him. Eusebio running at your defence from deep is not going to be stopped by your midfield.

If Socrates drops deep, then this will allow my team to create a huge back between your defence + midfield and attack. How will your team push forward when my team won't give your players any space at all to move forward? Stielike is an aggressive midfielder who doesn't give much time to players in midfield. Then, you have Castellazzi allowing Stielike to play such an aggressive game. If there are long balls that get played forward, my defence has the speed, athleticism, and awareness to catch them and stop your front 3 from opening us up.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Open and attacking? Yes, but do you really think that your team will ever get time on the ball? My team is filled with athletes that will prevent your players from ever getting much time on the ball. My players will choke your players out of any space that they have, and there's no way your team can really sustain possession. With Lupu in a defensive midfield role, it's effectively a 2 vs. 3 to my advantage in midfield. Plus, you're clearly ignoring Stanley Matthews here. You know that you have no plan against him. Leave de Boer in a more central role to support Moore, and Matthews will destroy your team.

One, playing a open/attacking with a sheep in defence is recipe for disaster, esp against Eusebio/Sarosi.
Two, If you are looking for the best player with workrate enough to cover the midfield, then you can find him in my team. Luis Monti without question.
Three, Not underestimating Benarrivo, but Gerets is the best fullback on the pitch and he's facing Stanley Matthews. It'd be a good fight. You can't keep Stanley out whole game, but then with Luis Pereira behind, I'll fancy my team still.

Genghini? Do you not notice Stielike in his best role here? Genghini will be the one pressing high up the pitch, suffocating your deeper players and preventing them from starting off attacks.

Is that a new offensive defensive midfielder role? You play him as a #10 in team sheet and expect him to contain Socrates? No way that's even working.

There is no one in your midfield controlling and dictating play. With all due respect Stielike is not the best fit for that role.

Eusebio is facing Castellazi and a sheep. He'll cut in and neither will have the right tools to stop him.

 

[harms]

A few points:

• A tough choice of naming the best player on the park here - most popular would be Eusebio, no doubt, but Sarosi should get a mention too. With traditional winger, N. 10 and a roaming forward behind him his versatility and game intelligence will come in handy. Also capable of going to the CB position to secure the lead if necessary
• Like Sarosi, Charles is one of those multipositioned stars of the past but for me he was always striker first, defender later, more like a nice bonus rather than a genuine playing position where he can play at GOAT level
• Netto as a left back. He started his career there but his peak was at midfield as a left/central midfielder. He lucks defensive skill to go up against Eusebio here. I'm really surprised - Stielike and Netto cries out for a good old 4-3-3
• Stielike's role - he is positioned higher than Castellazzi, so it's obvious that he isn't dropping back to cover for the centre-backs, which is a nice option you get when you pick him. Especially with Charles here.

All in all - EAP has best players, better balanced attack and I don't have issues with his tactics. Also, Sarosi is a personal favourite of mine, underrated as feck, he would've won a couple Ballon D'Ors if they existed at his time.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Tbh, I don't rate Castellazzi or Genghini any higher than Lupu, Quirarte or Moore.

 

[mazhar13]

One, playing a open/attacking with a sheep in defence is recipe for disaster, esp against Eusebio/Sarosi.
Two, If you are looking for the best player with workrate enough to cover the midfield, then you can find him in my team. Luis Monti without question.
Three, Not underestimating Benarrivo, but Gerets is the best fullback on the pitch and he's facing Stanley Matthews. It'd be a good fight. You can't keep Stanley out whole game, but then with Luis Pereira behind, I'll fancy my team still.

Gerets is playing as a right back, not left back. He'll be facing the left-sided player Schiaffino, not the right winger Matthews. You have to clear some things up and make sure that your argument remains consistent with your team selection.

Also, Monti has way too much to do in the team. Genghini will be roaming around vertically, causing him trouble. Lupu is out of his depth here as a defensive midfielder; he's never played there in his whole career! Then, you have Schiaffino also coming inside to overload the area with Netto making late runs forward from the left wing to cause even more problems. Don't forget, you also have a sheep in your defence, and Quirarte has played against and fared better against better attacking players than Moore did (two goals conceded in the 1986 World Cup against Belgium and Paraguay with a clean sheet against West Germany).

Is that a new offensive defensive midfielder role? You play him as a #10 in team sheet and expect him to contain Socrates? No way that's even working.

There is no one in your midfield controlling and dictating play. With all due respect Stielike is not the best fit for that role.

Eusebio is facing Castellazi and a sheep. He'll cut in and neither will have the right tools to stop him.

Genghini has played in a deeper role with Tigana for France. As a #10, if Socrates does drop that deep, then Genghini will have no issue closing him down. If Socrates doesn't go that far deep, then Stielike will stop him. Again, that's assuming if your team will ever get hold of the ball, which they won't. How will Socrates contribute defensively to stop my midfield? Exactly, he can't. Monti is doing too much work here. There's no way he can do all of the defensive work in the midfield.

Eusebio cutting inside will not cause Netto any issues here. He's more comfortable defending in the middle anyways. I'll have your team be suffocated in the middle. Even then, that's assuming that your team will ever get a hold of the ball in the first place.

 

[Enigma_87]

I think EAP/ctp wins this one. He has issues in DM with the sheep and also in central defence, but IMO mazhar is a bit lack of firepower to punish his central pair and they would contain JFH. Gerets is an excellent full back and with Eusebio form a solid right side. He has a lot of firepower as well, that should probably win him the match. I do think Mazhar will score in this match, something like 3-1 EAP/ctp, but since it's unavailable option I'm going with 3-2.

As harms said I'd also prefer Charles as a striker. Mazhar has the option to put Stielike as a CB, but that would open a huge gap in CM.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Gerets is playing as a right back, not left back. He'll be facing the left-sided player Schiaffino, not the right winger Matthews. You have to clear some things up and make sure that your argument remains consistent with your team selection.

My mistake. Though it changes nothing. Frank de Boer is playing a tucked in role there. He's started as LB and peaked at CB and he's playing a hybrid role here. Perfectly capable to handle the situation.

Genghini has played in a deeper role with Tigana for France. As a #10, if Socrates does drop that deep, then Genghini will have no issue closing him down

Look, lets not keep doing this. From what I see Genghini is not man marking anyone and despite what role he plays, he's not going to stop Socrates. I think this is beyond debate. You lack a proper #10 to make that formation work. Forcing Genghini/Stielike to cover for your lack of creativity is never going to work.

 

[Gio]

Quirarte had Mexico concede only three goals at the World Cup, and his team faced attacking sides that were stronger than what Moore faced. Moore only had Celtic to deal with that was a strong opposition in the SPL, and Rangers didn't fare that well in Europe against strong defences. Even then, Moore wasn't their main starting defender during his time with Rangers. He was always the third central defender in both of his Rangers spells. So much for a Rangers legend.

He's no Rangers legend to be fair, but he was first-choice in one of our best ever teams. That was under Advocaat circa 1998-2000 and he was our steadiest centre-half at the time. That was a bloody good team, turned over strong Parma and PSV outfits and tore Bayern to shreds really but they were incredibly lucky. Their weakness was probably at the back - Amo was great on his game, but erratic and prone to the odd feck-up.

I do fear for Frank De Boer though against Stanley Matthews. His lack of pace could be brutally exposed there.

 

[mazhar13]

A few points:

• A tough choice of naming the best player on the park here - most popular would be Eusebio, no doubt, but Sarosi should get a mention too. With traditional winger, N. 10 and a roaming forward behind him his versatility and game intelligence will come in handy. Also capable of going to the CB position to secure the lead if necessary
• Like Sarosi, Charles is one of those multipositioned stars of the past but for me he was always striker first, defender later, more like a nice bonus rather than a genuine playing position where he can play at GOAT level
• Netto as a left back. He started his career there but his peak was at midfield as a left/central midfielder. He lucks defensive skill to go up against Eusebio here. I'm really surprised - Stielike and Netto cries out for a good old 4-3-3
• Stielike's role - he is positioned higher than Castellazzi, so it's obvious that he isn't dropping back to cover for the centre-backs, which is a nice option you get when you pick him. Especially with Charles here.

All in all - EAP has best players, better balanced attack and I don't have issues with his tactics. Also, Sarosi is a personal favourite of mine, underrated as feck, he would've won a couple Ballon D'Ors if they existed at his time.

With regards to Charles, he was equally as good at the back as he was up front. Just because goals are valued more doesn't mean that his defensive work should be underrated. He defended as much as he attacked, being a valuable asset for Leeds and Juventus as both a central defender and as a striker. If Nat Lofthouse of all people can call Charles his toughest opponent, and if Juventus fans rate him higher than Platini (naming him their best foreign player ever), there's no way you can underrate Charles' defensive work at all. Even Sir Bobby Charlton said that he's up there with Pele, di Stefano, etc., whilst being world class in two positions rather than just one.

Netto was only put into midfield because of his willingness to push forward and attack. His defending was always at a top level. He was only put into the midfield because of his willingness to attack. Back then, full backs were expected to stay back only, but Netto here will be given the freedom to go forward and support Schiaffino, so his attacking talents won't be held back. If you really doubt his defensive work, watch his Euro 1960 final and tell me that he's going to struggle against Eusebio.

Stielike will be expected to support the defence as he always does in the midfield role. He's not supposed to be an offensive midfielder in my team. With my high-pressing, athletic team, he'll make sure to suffocate the opposition. Also, cover for the centre backs? Where have I said that my central defenders will go forward?

Finally, many people are ignoring Stanley Matthews and how he pretty much gets a free pass here. His impact is being severely underrated at the moment. His trickery, athleticism, speed, and deliveries from wide areas will cause EAP's defence lots of problems. Plus, Lupu, an attacking midfielder, is playing as the defensive midfielder for EAP. That doesn't make any sense at all. There's no way Monti will be expected to do the work of 2-3 midfielders here all by himself. Gerets will be occupied by Schiaffino, and Netto will take advantage of that going forward. Luis Pereira has too much work on his hand as well. Craig Moore, a backup central defender for Rangers, will not be able to handle any part of my attack. de Boer cannot afford to leave Moore by himself to take on Matthews, and if he does, Matthews will cause de Boer lots of problems at left back.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Both of us sport sheep as CB's but Sarosi is the better striker.
Both of us sport good wingers/IF's, but Eusebio is above the rest.
Gerets is the best fullback and he's supporting the best player in the pitch. It's the best wing out there.
Netto is a great player (though not playing in his peak position), and he just has Castellzao and Quirarte surrounding him while facing Eusebio and Gerets. I certainly have the upper hand there.

 

[Snow]

With regards to Charles, he was equally as good at the back as he was up front. Just because goals are valued more doesn't mean that his defensive work should be underrated. He defended as much as he attacked, being a valuable asset for Leeds and Juventus as both a central defender and as a striker. If Nat Lofthouse of all people can call Charles his toughest opponent, and if Juventus fans rate him higher than Platini (naming him their best foreign player ever), there's no way you can underrate Charles' defensive work at all. Even Sir Bobby Charlton said that he's up there with Pele, di Stefano, etc., whilst being world class in two positions rather than just one.

Netto was only put into midfield because of his willingness to push forward and attack. His defending was always at a top level. He was only put into the midfield because of his willingness to attack. Back then, full backs were expected to stay back only, but Netto here will be given the freedom to go forward and support Schiaffino, so his attacking talents won't be held back. If you really doubt his defensive work, watch his Euro 1960 final and tell me that he's going to struggle against Eusebio.

Stielike will be expected to support the defence as he always does in the midfield role. He's not supposed to be an offensive midfielder in my team. With my high-pressing, athletic team, he'll make sure to suffocate the opposition. Also, cover for the centre backs? Where have I said that my central defenders will go forward?

Finally, many people are ignoring Stanley Matthews and how he pretty much gets a free pass here. His impact is being severely underrated at the moment. His trickery, athleticism, speed, and deliveries from wide areas will cause EAP's defence lots of problems. Plus, Lupu, an attacking midfielder, is playing as the defensive midfielder for EAP. That doesn't make any sense at all. There's no way Monti will be expected to do the work of 2-3 midfielders here all by himself. Gerets will be occupied by Schiaffino, and Netto will take advantage of that going forward. Luis Pereira has too much work on his hand as well. Craig Moore, a backup central defender for Rangers, will not be able to handle any part of my attack. de Boer cannot afford to leave Moore by himself to take on Matthews, and if he does, Matthews will cause de Boer lots of problems at left back.

Can you really say he was equally as good up front as he was at the back when he played up front at the peak of his career? When exactly did he play at the back for extended periods?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I do fear for Frank De Boer though against Stanley Matthews. His lack of pace could be brutally exposed there.

That's why I played him in a tucked in defensive role. He's there to squeeze space and support Moore mostly. In this role, I don't see him getting caught out of position for Stan to expose him. He can expect some support from the old school halfback Luis Monti ahead of him.

 

[mazhar13]

Too many people here think that EAP's team will have some form of sustained possession. How is that even possible? Lupu is out of his depth in the deeper role. Socrates pushing back will force EAP's team even deeper. My team is filled with athletes who can recover to their positions and suffocate all spaces. I have a GOAT right winger facing a ball-playing defender who's not quick enough to handle Matthews. I have Hasselbaink who scored goals wherever he went in his professional, even scoring against us. He was almost the top scorer for Atletico Madrid in his one season there, scoring against a great Real Madrid team at that time. Genghini was an effective goalscoring midfielder for Sochaux and Monaco, helping Sochaux to fight for the Ligue 1 title with his 1 goal every 2 games. I have a Uruguayan legend in Schiaffino causing problems for EAP's right side. I have Castellazzi who's an effective anchor man. I have Stielike who was at his best as a defensive midfielder filling in for the defence and then moving the ball forward. I have Benarrivo who was one of the, if not the, best right back in the world at his time. I have Netto who's playing a role that suits his qualities and doesn't restrict him in any way.

My team is well-set to stop EAP. They won't ever get time on the ball, and they have no plan to stop my attack, whilst I have a more accomplished, solid defensive foundation to help me stop EAP.

 

[mazhar13]

That's why I played him in a tucked in defensive role. He's there to squeeze space and support Moore mostly. In this role, I don't see him getting caught out of position for Stan to expose him. He can expect some support from the old school halfback Luis Monti ahead of him.

Leave Matthews in free space out wide, and he'll deliver really good crosses to cause you problems. It wasn't just his dribbling that was very good. He had an amazing right foot with great deliveries from the right side. If Luis Monti does go out to close down Matthews, your midfield will become very lightweight and easy for me to expose. Plus, what plan do you have for Benarrivo when he comes up to support Matthews?

 

[Gio]

That's why I played him in a tucked in defensive role. He's there to squeeze space and support Moore mostly. In this role, I don't see him getting caught out of position for Stan to expose him. He can expect some support from the old school halfback Luis Monti ahead of him.

I can see that and Monti's support to cut out balls to Matthews would be key. In fairness to Frank, it's hard to envisage a more devastating counter-attacking route than a long ball from such a precise and visionary passer as De Boer onto the toes of Eusebio to burst forward with.

Still, De Boer will struggle and Matthews will create. Hasselbaink is a little under-rated retrospectively, he was a throroughbred goalscorer, capable of netting off either foot and had the raw strength to hold his own against more physical defences. Sure he's no Sarosi, but he won't need to be to find the onion bag here.

 

[mazhar13]

Can you really say he was equally as good up front as he was at the back when he played up front at the peak of his career? When exactly did he play at the back for extended periods?

From FIFA.com's article on John Charles:

Sir Bobby Robson, a long-time admirer, was among those who ranked him among the all-time greats. "Where was he in the world's pecking order? He was right up there with the very, very best - Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Best,” said the former England manager. “But how many of them were world-class in two positions? The answer to that is easy - none."

The same article mentioning who Nat Lofthouse's strongest opponent was.

Although versatility has long been a treasured footballing commodity, few players have proved peerless in more than one position. The Welsh city of Swansea did, though, produce one notable exception.

To illustrate the point, the great Nat Lofthouse was once asked to name the best centre-half he had ever faced. “John Charles,” came his unhesitating reply.

This is another snippet on that same article about Billy Houliston vs. John Charles:

His senior debut, at just 17, had come in April 1949 against Scottish club Queen of the South, and his task had been to mark Billy Houliston. This was a striker who had inspired Scotland to a 3-1 win over England just ten days earlier, and yet he was barely given a kick as the teams fought out a goalless draw. So impressed was Houliston that he immediately lauded his teenage marker as "the best centre-half I've ever played against".

Just because Charles scored lots of goals for Juventus and Leeds doesn't mean he primarily played up front. For Leeds, he most often played as a central defender, not as a striker. For Juventus, he would frequently play as a defender whenever Juventus took the lead rather than staying up front. It is sufficient to say that Charles was as much of a central defender as he was a striker.

 

[mazhar13]

In fairness to Frank, it's hard to envisage a more devastating counter-attacking route than a long ball from such a precise and visionary passer as De Boer onto the toes of Eusebio to burst forward with.

That's true, but will de Boer really get that time on the ball? With Matthews closing him down, how will de Boer fare to get some space for himself? Plus, Netto is a great reader of the game who will not let Eusebio get the better of him.

Both of us sport sheep as CB's but Sarosi is the better striker.
Both of us sport good wingers/IF's, but Eusebio is above the rest.
Gerets is the best fullback and he's supporting the best player in the pitch. It's the best wing out there.
Netto is a great player (though not playing in his peak position), and he just has Castellzao and Quirarte surrounding him while facing Eusebio and Gerets. I certainly have the upper hand there.

Matthews vs. Eusebio...nah, I don't see Eusebio being "a cut above the rest". You're also forgetting about Schiaffino, who was amazing for AC Milan as an inside forward and an Uruguayan legend, scoring the winner against Brazil in the Maracana at the 1950 World Cup final.

Finally, I have a very athletic team that will prevent your team from really pushing up. I struggle to see how your team will ever take control of the match with my high-pressing tactics.

 

[Snow]

From FIFA.com's article on John Charles:

The same article mentioning who Nat Lofthouse's strongest opponent was.

This is another snippet on that same article about Billy Houliston vs. John Charles:


Just because Charles scored lots of goals for Juventus and Leeds doesn't mean he primarily played up front. For Leeds, he most often played as a central defender, not as a striker. For Juventus, he would frequently play as a defender whenever Juventus took the lead rather than staying up front. It is sufficient to say that Charles was as much of a central defender as he was a striker.

When reading about him it seems that his career took off after he was converted to a forward. His best moments were at Juventus where he was bought as a forward and was regarded as a forward.

From the Juventus site:

Devastating is the adjective that springs to mind when you recall the power of Welsh international John Charles. Charles was the greatest - and not only in terms of stature - centre forward in Juventus history. World class strikers have come and gone. Deserving of special mention here are 'Farfallino' Borel, John Hansen, 'Bobby-go!' Bettega, Jose Altafini, Petruzzu Anastasi and Paulo Rossi. They were all great in their own right but there was no one quite like Charles.

For anyone who saw Charles play in the late 1950's and early 1960's when he was at his peak, the Welshman was the stuff of legends. There is a famous photo of him scoring yet another header and the goalkeeper is clinging on to him while two defenders try in vain to stop him. Another picture shows the dreadnought striker leaping above Vieri in a derby match and even at full stretch, the Torino keeper is nowhere near him.

John Charles was more than the proverbial battering ram. He was blessed with the ability to hang in the air and, as if suspended in motion, he would use his momentary advantage to decide whether to head for goal or lay the ball off for a colleague to apply the coup de grace. His unselfish play won him many admirers.
— statement by Juventus.

The guy was big and people weren't very tactically smart in general back when he played. Putting the big guy at the back was straight forward. Just because he played there doesn't mean he was world class. Bobby Robson saying so nonchalantly in an article specifically about him (those things are filled with sentimentality).

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I can see that and Monti's support to cut out balls to Matthews would be key. In fairness to Frank, it's hard to envisage a more devastating counter-attacking route than a long ball from such a precise and visionary passer as De Boer onto the toes of Eusebio to burst forward with.

Still, De Boer will struggle and Matthews will create. Hasselbaink is a little under-rated retrospectively, he was a throroughbred goalscorer, capable of netting off either foot and had the raw strength to hold his own against more physical defences. Sure he's no Sarosi, but he won't need to be to find the onion bag here.

I really can't claim I'm going to shut out Stan for the whole game. Yes, he'll have his chances and all I can do is hope to make those chances few. Benarrivo/Matthews is good but Gerets/Eusebio is better. And the tucked in formation plus Monti will all add in to the big picture. The tucked in strategy I'm playing will help me contain his attackers better than the open/pressing strategy he plays with my superior attack. If you compare the threat and defensive strategies, mine is better and more balanced.

The bigger factor is supply. He doesn't have a playmaker. I can't foresee who'll be pinging crosses to Stan and Schiaffino regularly. Who even who controls the midfield? Stielike? Not enough to be consistently a threat. Genghini is no better than a sheep. Here I have Socrates, the best playmaker on the field. His creativity is unmatched here and it ensures my attack has a better supply than his. Add in a better striker, I'll outscore him and that's what matters in the end.

 

[mazhar13]

The guy was big and people weren't very tactically smart in general back when he played. Putting the big guy at the back was straight forward. Just because he played there doesn't mean he was world class. Bobby Robson saying so nonchalantly in an article specifically about him (those things are filled with sentimentality).

He wasn't just at the centre of defence defending like Robert Huth, though. This guy was an effective man-marker and stopper. He was put back because he would stop attacking players from being effective with his great tackling and man-marking. He would shut down any forward he'd face at the back and not just be there to head balls away. He really was that good as a central defender.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Leave Matthews in free space out wide, and he'll deliver really good crosses to cause you problems. It wasn't just his dribbling that was very good. He had an amazing right foot with great deliveries from the right side. If Luis Monti does go out to close down Matthews, your midfield will become very lightweight and easy for me to expose. Plus, what plan do you have for Benarrivo when he comes up to support Matthews?

Can't dispute that, but that is one game I'd gladly take.
- With no playmaker, I have Monti cutting off most balls to Stanley.
- I'll have Frank de Boer squeezing space and taking speed out of the equation.
- Luis Pereira plus whatever support Moore can space will be sufficient to take headers out of the equation mostly.

If you get the ball down other flank:
- Gerets is the best fullback on the pitch.
- Luis Pereira is a fantastic defender and one of the best ever Brazilian CB's and I don't see him needing much support.

 

[mazhar13]

The bigger factor is supply. He doesn't have a playmaker. I can't foresee who'll be pinging crosses to Stan and Schiaffino regularly. Who even who controls the midfield? Stielike? Not enough to be consistently a threat. Genghini is no better than a sheep. Here I have Socrates, the best playmaker on the field. His creativity is unmatched here and it ensures my attack has a better supply than his. Add in a better striker, I'll outscore him and that's what matters in the end.

I don't have a playmaker? Do you not know that Genghini was a playmaker for France among their many playmakers in the team? He was Monaco and Sochaux's main playmaker as well, and his efforts had both of those teams constantly challenge for the Ligue 1 titles. Schiaffino was AC Milan's main playmaker like Silva is for Man. City, and here, he'll be playing similarly whilst Genghini will be playing more direct in his game.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Genghini is no better than a sheep.

That's harsh.

First round match in a draft of this kind? He's good enough, and certainly not sheep quality. I agree, though, that he isn't likely to actually make a significant difference as a playmaker here.

 

[mazhar13]

If you get the ball down other flank:
- Gerets is the best fullback on the pitch.
- Luis Pereira is a fantastic defender and one of the best ever Brazilian CB's and I don't see him needing much support.

Really? One overload at that left side, and that's your defence all opened up. Genghini was quite a direct player whose runs and advanced positioning caused defences in France lots of problems. Schiaffino was unpredictable in what he would do. Would he get on the ball and create? Would he stay out wide? Would he drift to the middle? Would he make runs and score goals? Hasselbaink was a beast of a striker up front with two great feet, astute positioning, strength in the air, and great finishing. There's no way he can be easily contained. Don't forget, Netto will be going forward as well when the ball is at the left side. Will Gerets stay out wide to deal with Netto, or will he have to follow Schiaffino?

 

[Enigma_87]

That's harsh.

First round match in a draft of this kind? He's good enough, and certainly not sheep quality. I agree, though, that he isn't likely to actually make a significant difference as a playmaker here.

Agree with this. Genghini is certainly not a sheep. He is a quality player and excellent passer of the ball with a good left foot. What I don't think however will work is him pressing and having any defensive duties as IMO he's not such a player from what I know. It was Fernandez that planted that into the French team to compliment Giresse, Tigana and Platini... Essentially Genghini lost his place and tends to be more forgotten in terms of stature in the French team.

 

[mazhar13]

Agree with this. Genghini is certainly not a sheep. He is a quality player and excellent passer of the ball with a good left foot. What I don't think however will work is him pressing and having any defensive duties as IMO he's not such a player from what I know. It was Fernandez that planted that into the French team to compliment Giresse, Tigana and Platini... Essentially Genghini lost his place and tends to be more forgotten in terms of stature in the French team.

I'm not having Genghini do anything complicated defensively. As the attacking midfielder, Genghini will be pressing high up the pitch, closing down the ball on the ball. I won't really be having him man-mark someone or really have that many defensive responsibilities. That's where Castellazzi and Stielike come into play. My high-pressing approach will ensure that EAP's team doesn't have much time on the ball at all. With Lupu alongside Monti, there's no way his midfield can really stop my midfield and prevent it from getting control of the match.

 

[mazhar13]

People need to realise that he has Lupu, an attacking midfielder, play as his most defensive player in the team. How does that get a free pass against my team? There's absolutely no way that his team will be able to get any control of the match. Lupu was a more direct player in the team and not that much of a playmaker. Socrates is the only playmaker in the team, and he doesn't have enough work rate to really afford space for himself in a team with Lupu in midfield. He did well for Brazil as he had Zico around to take the opposition teams' attention away from him, but in this team, with Lupu in midfield, Monti can't afford to push up and leave him by himself, so Socrates will be closed down and prevented from taking control of the match.

Then, you have Craig Moore at the back who will be the prime target for my team. He may be a decent defender, but facing Hasselbaink is a tough prospect for any defender, let alone Craig Moore. Then, you have Schiaffino roaming around, Genghini making runs into the box, and Matthews who will be putting in perfect deliveries as well as getting support from Benarrivo to really outnumber EAP on his left side.

 

[mazhar13]

Most people know about Hasselbaink at Chelsea, but few know about how good he was at Atletico Madrid. Here is a video showing him score a brace against Real Madrid at the Bernabeu.



Look at his hold-up play, dribbling, finishing, and movement. He was a real handful for those Real defenders. I struggle to see how he can truly be stopped.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

People need to realise that he has Lupu, an attacking midfielder, play as his most defensive player in the team. How does that get a free pass against my team?

Yeah, that's a fair point. Not least given his comment about Genghini. Stating that the latter is no better than Lupu is pure, shameless spin.

I don't remember much about Lupu beyond him coming on as a sub for Romania in '90, but I believe you're right in suggesting he wasn't a DM (at least not from the little I remember, he may have played other roles for his club sides). Here, he is deployed deeper than Monti, which looks very odd unless he was actually able to function well as a pure shield of sorts.

I agree with what was said above: EAP has the stronger attack. But the comment about his balance is much more debatable.

 

[mazhar13]

Benarrivo's impact is also being very undervalued. He was very good going forward for Parma, whether on the left or the right, and he will be key in unlocking EAP's left side when going forward to support Matthews.

Here's a video of Parma against PSG. Look at how Benarrivo (on the left side) uses both feet and provides the assist to Stoichkov for the winner.

 

[mazhar13]

I agree with what was said above: EAP has the stronger attack. But the comment about his balance is much more debatable.

EAP may have a stronger attack, but I have a better defence to deal with his attack than his defence does against my attack.

I've said it before and I'll say it again about Quirarte. He kept a clean sheet against West Germany, consisting of such players as Rummenigge, Allofs, Brehme, Matthaus, Dieter Hoeness, Littbarski, and Allofs. To put things into context, no other team except Denmark restricted West Germany to a clean sheet at the 1986 World Cup. And I'm supposed to be concerned about him, with Castellazzi, Stielike, Netto, and Charles supporting him, facing my attack, when EAP has Craig Moore and Lupu doing defensive work for his side?