Manchester United proved in FA Cup final they don't understand fan culture

[psychdelicblues]

Crystal Palace fans made a din at Wembley but the Man Utd support was unusually quiet as they won their 12th FA Cup, Andy Mitten writes.


Manchester United may have won a joint record 12th FA Cup final on Saturday, but the support the winners received at Wembley wasn’t close to that afforded to the losers Crystal Palace.

It’s a shame. Along the way to the final, United’s 5,000 strong away following was bouncing at Derby on a Friday night and brilliant at Shrewsbury on a Monday. At West Ham away in the quarter-final replay, another 5,000 travelling Reds made for one of the best atmospheres of the season. Against Everton in the semi-final at Wembley, Anthony Martial’s late winner provided one of the moments of the season and led to celebrations unlikely to be endorsed by any health and safety officer.

So why was it so flat at Wembley? Palace fans were magnificent; United fans were mediocre. Palace have a group of black-shirted ultra style fans who stand together in a bottom corner of the Holmsdale Road stand for home matches and make a din. It may seem contrived and they’re an easy target for ridicule. At first glance a couple of seasons ago, I thought they were trying too hard, South London boys pretending to be Roman ultras. But it works. They’re noisy, well-organised and their support is non-stop.

Crucially, they all stood together behind the goal at Wembley. Liaising with their club, they worked the tickets out so that the vocal fans were in the middle. The atmosphere spread out from them throughout the game.

They looked smart, too. They held up a large homemade ‘Mentality is Unstoppable’ banner behind a large image of eagle. Another 30 metre long banner simply said: ‘Crystal Palace. South London. Established 1905.’

At the other end, United fans passed over an ‘official’ red banner than had come from the club which said ‘Unity’ and a few waved plastic flags. Fair play to the club for trying to help, but they shouldn’t be responsible for this. As they showed with what would become a ridiculed ‘wall of white’ (free adidas kits handed out in a marketing exercise) they struggle to understand fan culture, which by virtue of the description, should come from fans.

United generously paid for coaches to Wembley, a gesture which made a huge difference to fans struggling to pay for two trips there in a month, but the atmosphere remains an issue – at Old Trafford and at Wembley.

The atmosphere is usually poor among United fans at Wembley. The vocal away hardcore fans, usually 3-4,00 - are spread around in a huge following of 30,000. At times there were three or four different songs going among United fans. Palace had one. Unity, indeed.

United struggled to compete off the pitch. There were people in the United sections on Saturday who looked like they’d never been to a game of football before. Money buys tickets and money has always talked at FA Cup finals. Then there are those who have season tickets at Old Trafford but may only go to one game away from M16 each season – at Wembley. Or there are people who are just not inclined to sing, especially when they have a drunk fellow fan ordering them to do so. United’s support is a broad one.

But there were still thousands of Reds who wanted it to be better. Wanted it to be as good as it was when Mata and Lingard scored. Or when ‘Dirty Old Town’ was played at the end.

The solutions are not obvious. It would be good to have had the away regulars together, but that’s one for United’s computer systems. Yet United don’t have a group similar to Palace and any attempts to improve the atmosphere at United are mocked – by United fans who little appetite for change or even a tolerance of each other. The atmosphere is often better outside the ground, in the concourses or in the pubs – where it is not going to do much good.

It’s a shame. In a chat with Ed Woodward about atmosphere a couple of years ago, he picked out the south stand at Real Madrid. By working with fans, Madrid have helped bring the noise back to the Bernabéu. It’s not perfect and never will be, but United need to try and understand their fan culture better to avoid another repeat of Saturday

 

[SteveJ]

Pointless article, needless criticism, and conveniently overlooks how bloody cheesed off fans had become with van Gaal's insipid United. No wonder there's been a lack of enthusiasm.

 

[Rado_N]

They held up a large homemade ‘Mentality is Unstoppable’ banner behind a large image of eagle.

Turns out they were wrong.

 

[JustAFan]

United won, Palace lost. What's this all about then?

 

[Wumminator]

Great article, highlighting a real issue in our club and something the club should consider going forward.

 

[.Rossi]

Where was your homemade banner, Andy?

 

[Samid]

No wonder. Our fanbase consists solely of armchair supporters from abroad.

 

[Ramshock]

always a fecking party is our Andy, negative prick.

 

[Carolina Red]

Is Andy Witten Johnno?

 

[Ban]

"Hm I don't know what to write. How to fill a page a two. Oh, I know I'll write about how great Palace fans were and how horrible United ones were. Oh that's a great idea, bravo Andy!"

My god, what a waste of keyboard.

 

[Ban]

Great article, highlighting a real issue in our club and something the club should consider going forward.

I agree, fans not being vocal enough in a FA cup final at Wembley is a real concern. Should be dealt with.

 

[Wumminator]

I agree, fans not being vocal enough in a FA cup final at Wembley is a real concern. Should be dealt with.

Fan culture being slowly eroded and how to combat this is a real issue.

 

[PvsNP]

Andy Mitten has been annoying for quite a while now.

 

[Ban]

Fan culture being slowly eroded and how to combat this is a real issue.

There's no way back.

 

[SteveJ]

The real target should be the totally sh*t number of tickets available to fans at any high-profile football Final.

 

[JmRssll555]

Absolutely agree with this article. The Palace fans were superb at Wembley and we seemed like the bunch of arrogant, spoilt fans they accused us of being on their forum last week.

Palace were all in the ground early, making a noise and creating an atmosphere during the warm up, whilst our end was pretty much empty right up to the pre-match stuff starting. The banner which we passed over was like something from the Megastore and looked silly compared to the effort at the other end of the stadium. What happened to the Busby Babes banner, or even the one we've used in the past with simply the club crest on it? The club definitely don't "get it" as far as I'm concerned.

Also, the criticism that we lacked unity is completely true. There were often different songs being sung around our end of the stadium, however we have seen that a singing section has done virtually nothing for the atmosphere at Old Trafford. I also totally accept that drunk idiots screaming at people to "fecking sing!" isn't helpful either.

There's certainly a lot that could be improved with respect to the atmosphere on match days. What should be done is a much more difficult question.

 

[Rood]

not sure why Mitten gets so much stick on here?

what he writes here is completely right - the atmosphere was not great

However the solution is not that difficult at all - Palace kept one block aside and called it the 'singing section', we now have a singing section at Old Trafford and it has worked very well so there is no reason for us not to do that at Wembley

The bigger problem is the number of tickets, many of Uniteds usual vocal support could not get a ticket, whereas Palace have much lower demand so pretty much everyone gets sorted

 

[Theonas]

The bigger the club in terms of profile and finances, the less "traditional" loud support it is going to be. I don't understand this constant criticism of things like that. If you want to venture that way and ignore modern business dealings with corporate seats and such, you have to also accept that the PL won't be getting anywhere near the money it is now which leads to lower standards of facilities and players and less quality in general. Nothing is for free and every developments has some sort of drawback somewhere along the line. The question is if it is worth it? I'd say the state of football now overall is better than it ever was so to me that's a fair trade overall.

 

[SteveJ]

Yes, there are problems but this seems like the usual 'jump on the anti-United bandwagon' stuff. Palace are known throught the PL for having loud support; in comparison, United are a bigger, truly global club and so it's inevitable that many fans don't 'get with the program'; and then there's the widespread despair over van Gaal's United (don't forget that some fans wanted us to lose so long as it go rid of LVG). All this adds up to a perfect storm of a kind.

 

[Rood]

Yes, there are problems but this seems like the usual 'jump on the anti-United bandwagon' stuff. Palace are known throught the PL for having loud support; in comparison, United are a bigger, truly global club and so it's inevitable that many fans don't 'get with the program'; and then there's the widespread despair over van Gaal's United (don't forget that some fans wanted us to lose so long as it go rid of LVG). All this adds up to a perfect storm of a kind.

Only idiots and I can guarantee you that no one at Wembley wanted that so this has nothing to do with the atmosphere whatsoever

 

[SteveJ]

Unless you asked every United fan there, I'm not sure how you can guarantee it.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Andy Mitten is terrible.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Oh noes, we lost the best fans ever battle to Crystal Palace. Oh well, just have to settle for the actual Fa Cup trophy.

But yeah, retarded article, The biggest crime is the lack of tickets going to supporters. All this club Wembley and sponsors bullshit.
Who fecking cares if Crystal Palace had a pretty banner and sang songs together. Give more tickets to fans.

Even if there was a small point in there, that wasn't the time to make it and it certainly isn't a United only issue.
All Saturday did was reflect how the support of both clubs is during the season.
Everyone knows Selhurst and the King Power are loud but then you've got 18 other grounds in the Prem that struggle for regular atmosphere.
Where's his article bitching about Watford's support compared to Palace in the Semi?

Or Evertons in the SEMI. Agenda driven Abu bollocks.

Edit - he's a United fan?

 

[Rood]

Unless you asked every United fan there, I'm not sure how you can guarantee it.

well why the hell would you go if you wanted that? Its only armchair nobheads who think like that

 

[ottosec]

Usual garbage by Mitten.

 

[ti vu]

"The expectation is too high", dear Andy

 

[Verminator]

Trying to become mainstream media by attacking his own club. Shame on you little Andy!

 

[Whiteside1985]

not sure why Mitten gets so much stick on here?

what he writes here is completely right - the atmosphere was not great

However the solution is not that difficult at all - Palace kept one block aside and called it the 'singing section', we now have a singing section at Old Trafford and it has worked very well so there is no reason for us not to do that at Wembley

The bigger problem is the number of tickets, many of Uniteds usual vocal support could not get a ticket, whereas Palace have much lower demand so pretty much everyone gets sorted

This.
Andy Mitten is a lot more in-touch with match-goin fan culture than most on this forum.
His article is spot on.

I have always found that at Wembley, the atmospere/noise from United fans tends to peak too early, usually in the pubs about an hour before kick-off.

 

[Minimalist]

I don't why anyone reads Mitten. His shite during Moyes' time at United told me his agenda...or his wild stupidity.

 

[Rory 7]

Pointless article, needless criticism, and conveniently overlooks how bloody cheesed off fans had become with van Gaal's insipid United. No wonder there's been a lack of enthusiasm.

It's really not just about LVG. It was the same at Wembley in 2011. Fans are split all over the shop. Stretford end season ticket holders should be kept together.

 

[pacifictheme]

Pointless article, needless criticism, and conveniently overlooks how bloody cheesed off fans had become with van Gaal's insipid United. No wonder there's been a lack of enthusiasm.

You're way off here mate. That article is pretty spot on. It praises our away support, but if that is really what palace did then they're smart.

 

[SteveJ]

You're way off here mate. That article is pretty spot on. It praises our away support, but if that is really what palace did then they're smart.

That's fair enough, and it's hard to argue that the club 'gets' its support. I just wish that journalists would be as outspoken about things like (for example) Liverpool fans only getting 10% of all tickets for the EL Final.

 

[Harry190]

Pretty sure Palace were buoyant because they very rarely reach such heights and United's current situation, one of uncertainty and general malaise had something to do with that no?

I guess those Palace fans made up for that 2nd half of the season. Must have been a real treat when they were


11 losses, 5 draws, 1 win since January.

 

[edcunited1878]

Palace fans were great during the beginning of the match and loud when they went ahead. They were playing on house money, hoping to win.

United fans were great around Wembley, during the pre-match build up, etc. United were expected/have to win, so there's more nerves associated with it. I was in the United section, directly behind the goal 100 level. We didn't get caught up in too much of the pre-match BS. Everybody was standing the entire 120 minutes.

Mitten doesn't comment on the absolute madness that was going on behind Wembley Park tube station. Yes we were a bit drunk, but it was football culture at its finest. Or the singing up the walkway into Wembley. Or the dominant colors of United in the tubes going towards Wembley.

And Palace's entire season ticket holder allocation and probably all their fans in London (London based club) were able to fill out their allocated ticket section. We all know how difficult it was for United's massive season ticket holder allocation to get a ticket for the final. And they too live in Manchester and throughout the UK.

Palace can control and influence their supporters much easier because they are very small compared to United. They are all pretty much in London and can mobilize quite easily. They're a pig in shite just being there having a chance to win. United are much more understanding to be hands in mouth because they have to win.

Yes, the atmosphere at OT has dwindled. Part because proper supporters are priced out, crowd control has been enforced during Glazer ownership, team performance, etc.

 

[noodlehair]

Had a friend at the game who said the same. Palace fans were good while United fans were boring and quiet.

Not really sure what Palace having a section of "ultra" idiots does to help anyone though. I don't think that's really the kind of "atmosphere" anyone with a functioning braincell or two wants.

Of course, it doesn't generally help the atmosphere of a cup final when the entire pre-game routine is turned into a complete balls up, including the game being delayed so everyone can listen to a crap rap song. If you want an FA Cup final atmosphere, maybe treat the game like an FA Cup final, and not a shite version of the Superbowl.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Apples and oranges. It was Palace's biggest game for 26 years, only their second ever cup final and the chance to win the first major trophy in the club's history. Even in our reduced circumstances of the last three years, there's no way United fans were going to match that once in a generation type of enthusiasm.

 

[jojojo]

It's certainly true that you need a core of people all joining in at the same time to get a song going. Once it's underway a lot of others will sing along. But that chain reaction needs a place to start.

It is easier for Palace to identify their noisy regulars and cluster them in terms of a Wembley allocation. That doesn't mean United couldn't have done a better job at it though. Something to learn for next time, it's been a while after all.

United also need to make sure they're talking to the right set of fans when they look at creating banners etc. Spanish football is as organised as it can get in terms of murals flags etc getting club backing - but the grounds do look great for the big matches. Very TV-photogenic, something I'm sure Woodward, and the PL can appreciate.

 

[pascell]

15 minutes into the game I said the exact same thing about differences in atmosphere of the two sets of fans. The Palace end looked amazing, think the highlight of being where I was sat was seeing Kirk from Corrie. Our fans where I sat only woke up when we went 1-0 down.

Where Mitten has got his article wrong is deflecting the blame from the club, basically blaming the supporters for the poor atmosphere. Imo it was the clubs fault due to poor planning, they could have easily replicated what Palace did but on a bigger scale. We could have had a few thousand from the Stretford End sat down the centre of the stand and let the noise filter out to the sides. Unfortunately, that's not how it works anymore as you get a lot of people just there for the day out and not entirely interested in the atmosphere.

The kick off time was ridiculous too, Palace fans would've had to travel for an hour to get to Wembley, we spent all our day getting down there. If it was a lunch time kick off our fans might have been more enthusiastic.

Also, the ballot system when you apply for tickets isn't fantastic either, a friend of mine (who sits in the Stretford End) didn't get a ticket and he was on 10/11 matches, so quite a few in the same bracket may have missed out. So for not going to a Europa League game against Midjatlland (sp?), you miss out on a FA Cup Final, ridiculous.

 

[SoCross]

Who's that guy who had a banner ready for the game that was called off? Blame him! We won't see a banner again ever!

 

[VP]

Such a bizarre overreaction to a perfectly valid article - the sort of reaction that reinforces the stereotype about Redcafe being the internet home of the gloryhunting, armchair element in our support.