Oliver holt : Woodward, Glazers and the crippling Lack of Vision that is hobbling united

[Maradona10]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Important Points from article-

• Doubts Ed woodward and his negotiating skills, calls him a man amongst boys
• Says he doesnt like mourinho but knows he is a winner, he will not be content with top 4, which Glazers and Woodward are content with.
• United are ok with the football side until the club is finishing top 4, they dont really want to compete for the title (Note -Same thing was said by Castles)
• United are playing catch up to Other top 4 competitors but are outspent by City,Chelsea etc
• Mourinho is not shy of internal conflict he wants to win, woodward does not know who he has put in charge. Mou is a fierce competitor and will turn pressure on woodward unless he delivers
• Mou doesnt want to play 2nd fiddle to pep, unless he is given the Equal or more finances to compete he is not interested in the club cause he wants to win and take club back to the top.
• Says although he doesnt Like mourinho, he thinks Mourinho is right on this ocassion, Glazers have spent some money but they have taken out more, need to dig deeper to compete.
• Woodward is not close to any good negotiators in other clubs including David dein, Gill, levy etc.Woodward only good for signing noodle partners not players
• 1/3rd of the players against Burnley not good enough,Woodward's Philosophy is based on Glitz and image as seen in his pitch to Jurgen klopp for the united job calling it "adult version of disneyland"
• Further criticizes lack in a structured transfer policy by Woodward.

Some replies by other Journos to the same-

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I think he makes very valid points, united are more concerned with making money than with football. City on the other hand want to make everything about football and build a brand from there, their means although from Oil money, yet they are using that money effectively on the football pitch.
On other hand we as a club are run as a business first, its more important for us to sign network partners in India rather than sign a player that we need. I remember in the summer while mourinho was going on about wanting players before going to pre season, ed woodward went to play golf or see some event. That is the attitude that needs to change.

Here is a hard Hitting fact, Mike ashley has put in 250 million of his money into the club, that is 250 million more than what glazers have put in. The real issue is our fans are finding the manager easy to blame when squad has seen poor management for several years, firstly because of lack of investment under ferguson which allowed likes of City to catch us, along with poor long term transfer strategy that allowed them to surpass us on every level including youth football, recruitment, staff management and coaching. Until there is a change in the attitude of the club, untill rather than wanting to be disneyland for adults , we want to be serious football club, we will kepp on failing no matter who the manager is.

Even if we had pep and jose was at city, city would be ahead of united because he would get the players he wants, he would get the enviornment he wants and pep would be signing on Mr potato boxes while ander herrera sells them to us. Pep couldnt change the fullbacks like he did at city, he wouldnt have quality signings that were already there when he arrived and he certainly would not be backed like he has been at city.
I think the club wanted us to believe we pick and chose David moyes while reality is that we were forced to go with him as no one wanted to follow ferguson as that was a dead man walking job. They were all proved to be right as we had a poor squad with gross under investment with a new guy becoming head of football operations. It was better avoided by Pep,Klopp, ancelotti etc. We need a change in the mentality of the club rather than the manager, Otherwise we might be the most sponsored club, but we will not be the best or even close to it. Football has created the business for united, it creats the fans, it creates the money, if glazers and Woodward continue to mis manage, we might even see us fall as a business eventually too.

 

[Bojan11]

Here is a hard Hitting fact, Mike ashley has put in 250 million of his money into the club, that is 250 million more than what glazers have put

Where’s your source for that? Don’t say it came from Ashley himself.

It’s a good article by Holt. Seems we happy with doing what we laughed at Arsenal for all those years. Just qualifying for the champions league. The board are not interested in long term planning. They just going to hire and fire managers depending on champions league.

 

[Lentwood]

What surprises me about Jose's recent comments is that most of the established 'big name' football journalists have come out and almost unanimously agreed with Jose

We still have a large majority of fans on this forum who refuse to accept that Jose has his hands tied to a certain extent while rubbing one out of Pep and his fantasy football project.

The articles are spot on of course, but it's nothing that hasn't been said many times on this forum

 

[soapythecat]

The sad thing is, many supporters are seemingly happy with the Glazers because they have paid xxxx on players. The truth is blindingly obvious and this article highlights that. They don’t care about winning the league - that would be a bonus, but top 4 is everything. CL football is everything.
The American model of sport management/ownership is very different to the way we want our club run. We have to accept that as they won’t sell. Look how much they took out of the club since buying it.
We don’t need another Green and Gold campaign, we need a fecking sniper.

 

[roonster09]

When things go wrong and don't know whom to blame, just blame everyone but the person responsible for everything.

 

[FrenchRed]

I really think that Jose didn’t get the job he thought he was getting - which explains his decisions and demeanor.

He thought he would be the one to rebuild United, fight with Pep on level ground with the same backing and funds - this clearly isn’t the case as the Glazers and Ed are just happy for 4th and to keep the money rolling in.

I’d not blame Jose for telling them to stick it and telling the fans how it is.

We have a total lack of quality, lack of planning and a shallow squad - I think it’s amazing Jose has got us as high in the league as he has!

It’s NOW we suffer from the lack of vision and ambition of the owners, it was masked when we were winning.

Jose is a top coach, with his hands tied behind his back.

 

[FrenchRed]

When things go wrong and don't know whom to blame, just blame everyone but the person responsible for everything.

Which is always the right call. The buck stops with them after all.

 

[Maradona10]

When things go wrong and don't know whom to blame, just blame everyone but the person responsible for everything.

Ed woodward is responsible for everything isnt he?

 

[Judas]

and a happy new year.

 

[Mozza]

Lack of investment doesn't explain the shite being played on the pitch

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Glazers and Woodward are easy scapegoats for lazy journalism.

Carragher article yesterday hits the nail on the head. This has nothing to do with executive management and more to do with the football manager.

We spent more than Chelsea and Liverpool. Two teams that play a much better brand of football than we do.

 

[wolvored]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Important Points from article-

• Doubts Ed woodward and his negotiating skills, calls him a man amongst boys
• Says he doesnt like mourinho but knows he is a winner, he will not be content with top 4, which Glazers and Woodward are content with.
• United are ok with the football side until the club is finishing top 4, they dont really want to compete for the title (Note -Same thing was said by Castles)
• United are playing catch up to Other top 4 competitors but are outspent by City,Chelsea etc
• Mourinho is not shy of internal conflict he wants to win, woodward does not know who he has put in charge. Mou is a fierce competitor and will turn pressure on woodward unless he delivers
• Mou doesnt want to play 2nd fiddle to pep, unless he is given the Equal or more finances to compete he is not interested in the club cause he wants to win and take club back to the top.
• Says although he doesnt Like mourinho, he thinks Mourinho is right on this ocassion, Glazers have spent some money but they have taken out more, need to dig deeper to compete.
• Woodward is not close to any good negotiators in other clubs including David dein, Gill, levy etc.Woodward only good for signing noodle partners not players
• 1/3rd of the players against Burnley not good enough,Woodward's Philosophy is based on Glitz and image as seen in his pitch to Jurgen klopp for the united job calling it "adult version of disneyland"
• Further criticizes lack in a structured transfer policy by Woodward.

Some replies by other Journos to the same-

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I think he makes very valid points, united are more concerned with making money than with football. City on the other hand want to make everything about football and build a brand from there, their means although from Oil money, yet they are using that money effectively on the football pitch.
On other hand we as a club are run as a business first, its more important for us to sign network partners in India rather than sign a player that we need. I remember in the summer while mourinho was going on about wanting players before going to pre season, ed woodward went to play golf or see some event. That is the attitude that needs to change.

Here is a hard Hitting fact, Mike ashley has put in 250 million of his money into the club, that is 250 million more than what glazers have put in. The real issue is our fans are finding the manager easy to blame when squad has seen poor management for several years, firstly because of lack of investment under ferguson which allowed likes of City to catch us, along with poor long term transfer strategy that allowed them to surpass us on every level including youth football, recruitment, staff management and coaching. Until there is a change in the attitude of the club, untill rather than wanting to be disneyland for adults , we want to be serious football club, we will kepp on failing no matter who the manager is.

Even if we had pep and jose was at city, city would be ahead of united because he would get the players he wants, he would get the enviornment he wants and pep would be signing on Mr potato boxes while ander herrera sells them to us. Pep couldnt change the fullbacks like he did at city, he wouldnt have quality signings that were already there when he arrived and he certainly would not be backed like he has been at city.
I think the club wanted us to believe we pick and chose David moyes while reality is that we were forced to go with him as no one wanted to follow ferguson as that was a dead man walking job. They were all proved to be right as we had a poor squad with gross under investment with a new guy becoming head of football operations. It was better avoided by Pep,Klopp, ancelotti etc. We need a change in the mentality of the club rather than the manager, Otherwise we might be the most sponsored club, but we will not be the best or even close to it. Football has created the business for united, it creats the fans, it creates the money, if glazers and Woodward continue to mis manage, we might even see us fall as a business eventually too.

Fully agree with you. What they dont realise is it was winning the league regularly that lifted the club up to this exalted position, and by having turned it into a cash cow with lets say modest spending (compared to City) on players, this cannot last. All the new foreign and British fans, the kids who then become adults, will obviously support whoever is the best football team. If Utd aint at the top it wont be Utd. In fact City could become the new Utd at the top of the pile. Lets hope Woody and the window men realise this before its too late.

 

[roonster09]

Ed woodward is responsible for everything isnt he?

No. He isn't. First team is completely Jose's responsibility. Signings, tactics, which player is involved, coaching everything is on Jose. Woodward is involved only in negotiations.

 

[Wumminator]

I have absolutely no idea why people think the Glazers would be happy with us not being competitive.

I don’t like them but their whole model needs us to go up in net worth and to be one of the biggest clubs. We don’t get that with fourth every year.

Also... how are we being outspent by Chelsea?

Edit: it is all well and good saying we don’t need short term ideas.... why did we hire Mourinho then?

 

[saivet]

I get the lack of vision with managerial appointments, but I'm struggling to see how these guys are to blame for what's happened under Jose.

Woodward doesn't just to decide who we buy. Seems bizarre getting hung up on him being a poor negotiator now. Jose largely got the players he wanted.

What do we need, another £300m spent?

Are we going to blame Woodward/the Galzers if we buy shit players the manager wanted?

 

[Crimson King]

I hope this is all bullshit because if there's even an ounce of truth in it we're well and truly fecked.

The Glazers aren't going anywhere now that their cash cow is where they want it to be. They might replace Woodward but they'll replace him with another of their moneymen.

fecking hate Holt, especially when he says stuff I agree with.

I never thought I'd lose faith in United as much as under Moyes, but after last night's performance the arse has fallen out of my confidence in this team.

I just pray there is some master plan behind it all which hasn't been fully realised yet. The evidence suggests otherwise though.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I get the lack of vision with managerial appointments, but I'm struggling to see how these guys are to blame for what's happened under Jose.

Woodward doesn't just to decide who we buy. Seems bizarre getting hung up on him being a poor negotiator now. Jose largely got the players he wanted.

What do we need, another £300m spent?

Are we going to blame Woodward/the Galzers if we buy shit players the manager wanted?

Probably. The thing is what if the marquee signing each year, the one that takes up the majority of our budget is someone the club wants, not the manager. That he gets the lesser lights, but the Glazers/Woodward get the big publicity one. Keep doing that and you end up with a team that will never work.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Sounds like BS to me. Jose has missed out on one player he wanted since he has been here and that was Perisic. Apart from that he has said he was happy with recruitment. If City were having a normal season we would still be in with a shot of winning the title. Simply, you cannot judge a team against a side that has dropped two points by new year.

Calling Woodward a boy in a man's world stinks of a personal resentment. Is the world of football transfers really more masculine than the world of commercial deals that Woodward clearly excels in or something?!

 

[Crimson King]

Fully agree with you. What they dont realise is it was winning the league regularly that lifted the club up to this exalted position, and by having turned it into a cash cow with lets say modest spending (compared to City) on players, this cannot last. All the new foreign and British fans, the kids who then become adults, will obviously support whoever is the best football team. If Utd aint at the top it wont be Utd. In fact City could become the new Utd at the top of the pile. Lets hope Woody and the window men realise this before its too late.

I've already accepted I'm going to have to get used to seeing kids in city shirts everywhere over the coming years.

Seriously, unless you have an emotional investment in United how many young hearts and minds are they capturing with their football these days? City, Tottenham, Liverpool, Chelsea and even Arsenal are doing a better job of that.

I didn't have much choice because of my Dad tbh, but I also grew up watching a team that played great football with passion and that captured my imagination before I fully understood the concept of winning and success. I'd give anything for another Gary Neville in the side, feck it I'd take Phil!

Is that happening at all now? How am I going to convince my future children to follow the club? Honestly, if I have to raise City fans I'm going to just drink myself into an early grave and leave them with a mountain of debts.

 

[C3Pique]

Unless Joel Glazer can play RW I don't see how they're to blame.

The £110m spunked on Lukaku and Lindelof could have been much better spent. £30m on Mhikitaryan was wasted.

They've given Jose all he asked for. He just hasn't addressed the issues with the squad that have existed for half a decade - it's his second season, and our starting FBs are both reheated wingers from the Ferguson era that weren't fit to lace Ronaldos boots. Our starting RW is a slow, small #10. We didn't need Lindelof and we could have done just as well with Martial at #9.

I don't know if Jose is to blame for choosing these players or if Woodward is just playing his game of FM based on the marketability and commercial opportunities of the signings. But the squad is still nowhere near top 4 quality, let alone Manchester United quality.

 

[Smores]

Glazers and Woodward are easy scapegoats for lazy journalism.

Carragher article yesterday hits the nail on the head. This has nothing to do with executive management and more to do with the football manager.

We spent more than Chelsea and Liverpool. Two teams that play a much better brand of football than we do.

Said by a man who hasn't actually watched Liverpool i feel. They've had plenty of games where their attacking play has been really shit and plenty average where Salah has saved them.

Only City are significantly better in an attacking sense.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Sounds like BS to me. Jose has missed out on one player he wanted since he has been here and that was Perisic. Apart from that he has said he was happy with recruitment. If City were having a normal season we would still be in with a shot of winning the title. Simply, you cannot judge a team against a side that has dropped two points by new year.

Calling Woodward a boy in a man's world stinks of a personal resentment. Is the world of football transfers really more masculine than the world of commercial deals that Woodward clearly excels in or something?!

Apart from Perisic we do not know who he personally wants, just what the club have let rumours emerge about. We will just have to pray that we get Top 4 and that City do not strengthen again next season and return to their usual complacent self as usual. Now if Pep can actually get them to retain a title I would be worried.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Apart from Perisic we do not know who he personally wants, just what the club have let rumours emerge about. We will just have to pray that we get Top 4 and that City do not strengthen again next season and return to their usual complacent self as usual. Now if Pep can actually get them to retain a title I would be worried.

Not really, when Mourinho arrived he seemed very happy with the four players we signed when talking about them in his press conferences. Why would the club let out stories that he was unhappy with us not signing Perisic anyway?

 

[DavelinaJolie]

You know, in the NFL they talk about drafting a bad Quarterback as setting a franchise back years. I wonder what two managers spending over £250m on players like Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Di Maria, Fellaini, Depay, Rojo, Schneiderlin... and so on does to a football club. Granted that includes Martial, but still.

To some degree I want to give Mourinho a break, the spending before him was largely wasted; there is a lot of work left to build the squad and get rid of the deadwood. Spending around £160-170m on two players alone isn't going to fix it.

 

[clarkydaz]

I have absolutely no idea why people think the Glazers would be happy with us not being competitive.

champions league presence is king. Its why 2 managers were sacked. If all this is true, we are turning into Arsenal

 

[ti vu]

What surprises me about Jose's recent comments is that most of the established 'big name' football journalists have come out and almost unanimously agreed with Jose

We still have a large majority of fans on this forum who refuse to accept that Jose has his hands tied to a certain extent while rubbing one out of Pep and his fantasy football project.

The articles are spot on of course, but it's nothing that hasn't been said many times on this forum

And someone like LVG who had himself to blame for bad signings/ target did echo pretty same point about the higher up's vision fixed solely on revenue with okayish performance (top 4).

While I am skeptical, by this time there is just too much smoke in regard to this not to have second thought about this.

 

[Redmurph16]

Sounds like BS to me. Jose has missed out on one player he wanted since he has been here and that was Perisic. Apart from that he has said he was happy with recruitment. If City were having a normal season we would still be in with a shot of winning the title. Simply, you cannot judge a team against a side that has dropped two points by new year.

Calling Woodward a boy in a man's world stinks of a personal resentment. Is the world of football transfers really more masculine than the world of commercial deals that Woodward clearly excels in or something?!

Agree with your first paragraph. Don't know about the personal resentment bit.
I do think Woodward's a lightweight in transfer dealing and do believe CL qualification is good enough for the Glazer money machine to keep rolling in the medium term.
Back Jose, back the shirt and let's lift the gloom with a bit of positivity.

 

[Sing you a song]

This is a the problem now that football is all about the business and the money it generates , the winning of trophies becomes secondary to the big clubs as the actual prize money is peanuts compared to the monies earned commercially .

The holy grail is qualifying for the champions lge consistently , winning it is nice but not important , winning the Prem is nice but not important .Arsenal have had this model for years and Liverpool have been desperately trying to get back to this for years .

I don't agree that at City it is all about the football there owners are more astute than everyone else they realise that City do not have the history or global appeal that United have and realise that the only way they will get this quickly and become a true global brand will be by dominating in terms of trophies once they then have the global recognition and the sponsorship deals in place they can then stop the spending and watch the money come rolling in rather than spending there own .

They will then become just like us and target consistency in terms of champs lge they may have unlimited wealth but they won't throw it around forever forget the romantic thoughts that they want to play beautiful football and win everything they are just like the Glazers and want to make money they just know that in there case without united global appeal they need short term massive spend in order to establish there global brand .

The problem is that there are now 6 teams consistently fighting for 4 places so expect more managerial sackings because not winning lge is ok but not finishing in top 4 is a disaster

 

[MJJ]

• Mou doesnt want to play 2nd fiddle to pep, unless he is given the Equal or more finances to compete he is not interested in the club cause he wants to win and take club back to the top.

He can feck off if that is how he thinks.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Said by a man who hasn't actually watched Liverpool i feel. They've had plenty of games where their attacking play has been really shit and plenty average where Salah has saved them.

Only City are significantly better in an attacking sense.

Every team has bad days, United seem to have more bad than good days off late and it has nothing to do with Glazers or Woodard.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He can feck off if that is how he thinks.

He still lives in a hotel. He's hardly thinking about this as a job he sees himself for the long term.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

We know most of this, it's nothing new, probably the worst thing for us would be to finish third/fourth comfortably clear of the rest, it'd be mission accomplished, rinse & repeat next season will do fine.

The only thing I dispute is if Jose was given equal or more money to Pep whether he'd really have it in him to take us to the top.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

complete bollocks.

The Glazers have allowed managers complete freedom, and made available massive funds. The only player we couldn't get is greizmann who was not allowed to leave for anyone.
We do not have the financial power of the likes of City and PSG, but neither do Real, Barca, Chelsea, or Bayern. Not to mention the fact that the City squad is not much better than ours. They simply have coaching staff who have got them all in one mind and spirit.

The truth is that Mourinho is shown to be a very average coach unless he buys all the best players.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not really, when Mourinho arrived he seemed very happy with the four players we signed when talking about them in his press conferences. Why would the club let out stories that he was unhappy with us not signing Perisic anyway?

I just worry where we are going. I am willing to give Jose time, but there will be plenty who aren't. The players as well have to take responsibility. It appears getting a big pay packet does not include using your brain.

If not Jose then who? Certainly not Carlo. His football is not scintillating. Then do you go for a younger manager and let him rebuild just about from scratch? Then suck it up for a few years while we set out a more attractive playing style and recruit and train players to carry that style out? I would be willing to do that if Jose just cannot succeed, even given time to do so. Just not sure the owners would be happy to do that. They want publicity, the big name players, if they are the right ones or not, sponsors. They will grasp eventually that sponsors come to a club that is successful. The successful clubs get the big sponsors, the prestigious sponsors. We have lots of sponsors, some of them are a bit dubious to me. Sponsors for sponsors sake.

 

[Bestietom]

Mourinho does not just want a top 4 club. He is a Winner and wants the board to back him in the transfer market. We are all kidding ourselves to think that we are the best team in the league now. If we don't invest seriously, we will not even get into top 4.

Chelsea has bypassed us into second and they will stay there ( make no mistake). How long before others will overtake us.

 

[Cait Sith]

Lack of investment.

Fergie left behind a title-winning team and after him 700 million pounds have been spent but poor Mourinho is working under Arsenal's board.

 

[MancunianAngels]

For the current seasons mess, Mourinho and Woodward are to blame.

For the longer term problems, you have to blame Gill and Fergie (who never put a long term plan in place) and the Glazers (lack of investment between 2008 and 2011 clearly had a negative impact.)

In theory, we are only slightly short of expectations for the season.
Another League Cup would have been nice but nobody at the top of the club will lose any sleep.
Given the start, you'd expect to be comfortably in 2nd aswell. City being that good makes it so much worse.
Serious concerns if we finish outside the top 3 in May. Major meltdown if we are outside the top 4.

 

[clarkydaz]

He can feck off if that is how he thinks.

it probably means he isn't interested in the club raking money in while being happy with top 4

 

[wolvored]

I've already accepted I'm going to have to get used to seeing kids in city shirts everywhere over the coming years.

Seriously, unless you have an emotional investment in United how many young hearts and minds are they capturing with their football these days? City, Tottenham, Liverpool, Chelsea and even Arsenal are doing a better job of that.

I didn't have much choice because of my Dad tbh, but I also grew up watching a team that played great football with passion and that captured my imagination before I fully understood the concept of winning and success. I'd give anything for another Gary Neville in the side, feck it I'd take Phil!

Is that happening at all now? How am I going to convince my future children to follow the club? Honestly, if I have to raise City fans I'm going to just drink myself into an early grave and leave them with a mountain of debts.

Its true. My son and grandson both started as Utd fans, but as my son grew up he started going to the Wanderers as we live close to Wolverhampton. But my grandson (10) has swapped to Arsenal, and lately talks how good it is to watch City play. This will happen more and more unless we start winning regularly. We will still have the old core, but as the years pass this will dwindle.

 

[Balu]

This is a the problem now that football is all about the business and the money it generates , the winning of trophies becomes secondary to the big clubs as the actual prize money is peanuts compared to the monies earned commercially .

Surely that's not true for any of the big European clubs other than maybe United? Barca, Real, Juve and Bayern want to win, as do the two new bigs PSG and City if you want to include them. Milan and Inter are struggling but certainly not because of a lack of investment compared to their earnings. Chelsea as well want to win more than making money even though Abramovich doesn't put as much of his own money into the club as he used to. It's really just United and (if you still want to include them) Arsenal.

But then, United has the 3rd most expensive team in the world and spent more than any other traditional big club since Ferguson retired, so it's hard to believe that the one traditional big club that spends more than any other is the one who doesn't want to win.