Or maybe they were our most inform players for about six weeks until mourinho's new toy arrived and then that's when they learned their true value to him and got demotivated. Or they are simply out of form because they have been getting thrown around the field to accommodate new toy.
Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)
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That actually reinforces my point: that City side wasn't even able to pull away from Van Gaal's absolutely terrible Manchester United team. Yet here they are dominating now, with a lot of players, as RAB pointed out, that Guardiola had inherited from his predecessor.
Exactly we should also not be so blinded, or get sucked up into the Jose winner hype. If only winning trophies is the priority and not the football or entertainment value of the sport, then by all means Jose is the man for the job. Keep Lukaku and buy 9 defenders, hoof the ball forward and hope for a lucky goal.
Jose has proven he is a winner(in the past) but somehow he too is breaking his own records, always wins the league in his second year where ever he has gone, no chance of that this time round. Never lost a home game in his managerial career, when played on a Sunday, this season that record also got broken, etc.
This year I don’t see us winning anything, and not in the foreseeable future with Pep being in the PL and his financial backing. Pep has shown you can win and set new boundaries with very attractive football and that shows up Jose even more.
I must say he seems to be keeping on schedule though, 3rd season syndrome, alienating with his players, blaming everything and everyone right down to the tea lady, fighting with the press etc. I expect him to leave next year after fighting and blaming everyone(last nights press conference showing all the signs) bringing the team and club into disgrace and shambles.
I loved his 12 min defiant speech to try and justify his failings and cowardice in the CL. I too remember LvG defiantly saying to the press, (when the chips were down) the board and Ed are fully behind him, when in actual fact they were busy looking for his replacement. At the end of the day LvG was the last one to know he was being replaced, he was convinced he had the backing of the club. We all know how that turned out, and looking at his past weeks press conferences all I can say is, the foundations have been laid.
Mourinho has his work cut out for him
I don't think he seen the success of Guardiola coming and now realises if City keep up their momentum for a few years nobody will catch them
I think he's in damage control mode now, trying to deflect blame and come out looking good for himself
I don't think he seen the success of Guardiola coming and now realises if City keep up their momentum for a few years nobody will catch them
I think he's in damage control mode now, trying to deflect blame and come out looking good for himself
They don' have much of it. They want CL.
How many CL winning managers are available?
They don't HAVE to give it to someone who has won it before.
I'm not sure of your point, I mean, I just said, obviously coaching matters and Pep is the best around.
If you're saying Pep could've made Schneiderlin, Rooney, Jones, Darmien, Herrera play as well as Silva, KDB, Aguero, Fernandinho I'd gonna call bullshit. We absolutely did not have 3 players of that incredible World Class standard at our club.
If you actually read what most of the FIFA-playing, keyboard warrior, never been to OT brigade you would have understood that the loss was not the issue. The loss against Sevilla and win against Brighton are being treated the same way.
Teams don't need to spend 300mn to play good attacking watchable football, klopp and pochettino did it without spending anywhere near that money and guardiola has shown you can win stuff without having to chose between good football and trophies if you spend money.
No one is asking for a league title but 3rd playing Liverpool football is much better than 2nd playing our football since neither is going to achieve the league win. And if we are going to play our four version of football we better win more than a FA cup especially after spending 300mn.
You on the other hand are telling us 2nd position playing dour football while spending only 300mn is a fantastic achievement.
Tell me who exactly is the one posting ridiculous stuff?
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Your lack of understanding is ridiculous. Chelsea are miles ahead of us? Really!
As for City, no one said that we are better than them. We are however 16 points behind them and the league was over by October. Is that really where you want to be after spending 300 mil? Not to mention Mourinhobeing confident of a proper title fight but soon he backed out of his own words and the sheep followed their master to sing a different tune completely. Slagging off the whole squad but nothing pointing towards Mourinho.
Anyway that is besides the point. I don't see what kind of football does he want us to play. It's neither here nor there. Unless you think parking the bus against any half decent opposition is the right way forward. You think a manager needs half a billion pounds worth of transfers and 3 years just to get a team playing coherently in attack? If you genuinely believe that, then more power to you.
I don't buy this nonsense though. Results may be inconsistent but our style of play has been appallingly bad. We mostly need moments of brilliance to score goals. 4 shots on target over 180 mins against Sevilla tells the whole story. There have been numerous signs over the course of the season that the team isn't really gelling and there is nothing in particular in terms of style of play we are heading towards but since the results were there so people kept mum. But when you base the whole thing on results, you better back that up with major trophies else there is nothing to hide behind once you start losing important matches.
Btw, well done on completely ignoring the Spurs point.
I am not sure about Pochettino. If Mourinho won us a title before he got sacked within two seasons, I would be really happy with his performance. As things stand there is no guarantees Mourinho will be here for much longer and I don't see us really winning the title under him as long as Pep is with City.
No. But they have already tried giving to someone else and that didn' work
Yet, they still scored 70+ goals in the season. Something we haven't managed in how long?
No, not as well. My point is that saying how many players Guardiola inherited is a bit pointless. Both his coaching and his transfer business have been better than Mourinho's.
Klopp would be a better comparison if we want to look at who inherited what: they finished ahead of us last season and are still within touching distance this season, with a fraction of our budget, after finishing behind us in both of the LVG seasons. This with Henderson, Can and Milner in midfield.
Very well said!
The comment about CB's taking too many touches was laughable. Mourinho selects Smalling on a regular basis. The most technically ungifted CB on the planet. Would Smalling make it in a Pep Guardiola side? - I very much doubt it. Smalling takes 10-15 touches because he is a terrible footballer. He will never be a commanding CB who is aggressive on the ball, playing driven forward passes. He is not good enough and Mourinho being surprised at that is bizarre. Lindolof is significantly better at playing out from the back. He should be working with him and trying to establish a partnership with Bailly. - Mourinho should know his players by now... This is probably a reason why he still can't settle on a system/XI. He can't coach the players to play the way he wants. He can get a tune of Ashley Young but not Alexis, Pogba, Martial. In fairness, Lukaku has been fantastic recently. But it's not enough.
We also have mediocre full backs who love to pass backwards. I don't understand what he expects from Smalling, Young, Valencia, Jones. Collectively these are average footballers with limited ability. They won't get any better. We have players in the academy and out on loan that could do a better job.
We also have mediocre full backs who love to pass backwards. I don't understand what he expects from Smalling, Young, Valencia, Jones. Collectively these are average footballers with limited ability. They won't get any better. We have players in the academy and out on loan that could do a better job.
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We've become Real Madrid fans.
Klopp's doing a very good job.
Pep's doing a very good job.
Poch's doing a very good job.
I'm not sure why any of the above statements mean Mourinho (6th to 2nd and a massive point swing) is doing a bad job.
I also agree on the bolded.
Not sure why being like Real Madrid is seen as a bad thing anymore. They won three out of the last four CLs.
The manager and the team made a progress. Shouldn't it be more "winning together", "losing together" thing? This is now becoming like he did it in spite of having many not so quality players in his squad which is also a little bit ridiculous.
He really liked that bunch of losers only a few months ago.
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/mourinho-ive-never-liked-players-as-much-as-i-like-uniteds/
The fans didn't.
It means he's doing an alright (at best) job. As others show, it's possible to play good football and achieve similar results with far less money. The idea that someone touted here, that it's actually some incredible achievement to be second after having spent ONLY 300m is ridiculous.
And your point is...?
Going by your logic they should appoint Di Matteo seeing as he won the CL more recently than Mourinho.
If we are being compared to Real Madrid fans, a hugely entitled bunch with almost no patience, then it's not the same as being compared to a club that has loads of elite players.
After dwelling on the Caf for quite a lot of time over the last week I was surprised (echo chamber effects) to hear the support for Jose during the game last night.
They had Ancelotti, too, so by that logic, giving it someone who had won it before didn't work either. What's next then? Going at it without a manager? Either way they will have to try something that didn't work before.
So was I. It was nice. Was there any songs for the players on the field?
And they're right to be entitled, their club's history demands that. Expectations are always sky-high there.
I used to loathe Real Madrid and found their culture ridiculous but after seeing our standards slip so much I can understand why they don't tolerate failure in any form.
Tony Martial as always
Not sure about the others.Not sure about Mourinho trying to save his skin. I think he's just finally being honest and ruthless whereas before he was trying to up the morale of the players the "nice" way. That obviously didn't have the desired outcome so now he's trying it this way. The truth is the squad he inherited from Van Gaal was shit. Van Gaal just did an interview in which he seriously questioned the mentality, specifically the professionalism, of the squad he had at United. Hopefully Mourinho can seperate the good from the bad and get rid of our dead wood. Our players haven't given it their all since Ferguson left. The lack of passion in our game predates the arrival of Mourinho by years. I don't think Mourinho is the core issue. I just think he's become fed up with the real problem, which is the mentality of the players.
Being like Real Madrid fans is exactly what got us Mourinho. Sacking a manager the day after he wins a big trophy for the club to hire a 'galactico' who on recent form wasn't worth it and goes against our club ethos.
Yes, for the past 5 years Chelsea were were miles ahead of us in terms of the quality of starting XI and results at least before this season when Conte decided to replace Costa with Morata.
Don't have much to say to you about spurs if you say Poch 'immensely' improved them, taking them from ~5th to ~3rd.
I never said our football is great, I never said results are great but if you think it's best for the club to sack him for finishing 2nd, then stop playing FIFA. You assume that us who want him get at least 1 more season are happy with everything we see. Far from it but we can see quite a big progress at least in terms of points in the league which we never had for the last 5 years. If we don't improve next season, sack him I agree. However wanting him gone after this season is just crazy.
Fair comment. I didn't want LvG to stay given how our league form dipped in his second season. Winning the FA Cup glossed over a lot of our issues and there wasn't much confidence in LvG turning it around. I think that's the key difference between him and Mou at the moment.
This is certainly an important moment for Mourinho and it'll be interesting to see what happens.
Well, they can't win all the time, no team does, so a measured perspective can help people cope emotionally
As a supporter of Jose's tenure, I do find plenty of faults with him so it's not deluded support like some would have you believe, but when he's being written off completely it doesn't sit well with me. For the record, I've no problems with serious ambition, I think as a club we should have that. I'm not sure we've had that for a while, extending much further back than SAF's last few years. Ambition of a club is not only seen in the manager, but also what type of players they have, not simply in terms of talent, but not least in terms of attitude. The whole Rooney thing, when he was the leader and the players were hyping him up when it was clear as day that he was finished showed a very low level of ambition. We have a bit of a culture problem.Fed up with Mourinho blaming everyone, the fans, the players, the board, competition. That’s worse than any performance or results that we have had.
I realise this isn't the thread to be having a discussion on this subject but I will say that if you are right there is absolutely no justification for us having paid so much money for a player having zero attributes in a position where they are an absolute necessity.
Jesses fecking Christ the doom and gloom in here. Since when did this place become so Fam TV?
I think cause of his last job and the way he left, the lot of you forget that Mourinho is a born winner. In fact you can ask most of his former players at Porto, Chelsea ('04-'07) and Inter. RM and Chelsea are spoiled rich kids. But even with them he delivered. His Real was the one that stopped Pep's Barca and won the league. As his Chelsea (2nd time) won the league and onto the Semis of the CL. Maybe you are being too influenced by the anti-Mourinho media agenda, or former legends of the club that get paid to talk shit (like my all time favourite player Scholes). The thing is that some of our players don't look United-material (mentally I mean). I trust Jose on this and I'm fully behind him. He's proven that wherever he's gone, delivered. We should get behind the manager, we're not Chelsea ffs and he's not the Moyes-material, thank god. We are United and that means that the team is above every diva that fancies himself above the club(Ramos, Casillias, Hazard...).
Even if that means that some quality players need to go and bring in players that know the meaning and weight of the shirt they're wearing
What the feck happened during these 2 weeks? We beat Chelsea, we beat Crystal Palace, we beat the Scousers and we lost to Sevilla. So fecking what?
I know we should be beating them even with our 2nd team, but that didn't happen. So people, please just move along. These aren't the droids we were looking for. Maybe next year we'll take advantage the gained experience from this one and be better(I'm so fecking sure about this one).
We had our ups and downs but in general it's been a relative OK year compared to every post-SAF year, and it isn't over yet. Younger players cut their teeth for the first time in CL(Rashford, Lukaku, Bailly...) also CL football once again, better than our previous freakshow that was under LVG, Old Trafford is becoming the fortress that once was, most of Jose's signings are top draw footballers even if their not performing at the moment (Sanchez, Pogba), they will eventually.
I really can't tell if all the Mourinho, Pogba etc. haters in here are trolls like the ones that exist in M.E.N. Or they just dislike Mou for whatever reason and just want him to crash and burn even if this means that the team will go downhill. If it's the latter I guess they're not really Manchester United supporters, are they?
P.S.
Maybe you forget all these comments in the press about how SAF is past it and should retire and all these kind of things, when Mourinho dominated with his Chelsea. We all know how this turned out
P.S.2
He will be appreciated after he leaves, for most of his signings and for infusing strong mentallity to the players to be able to lift the weight of the shirt.
Right now you are shouting about Jardim, Ancelotti etc. Maybe you bypass the fact that Jardim for example was in his 3rd year that Showed the world of his great Monaco side. The previous 2 was the boring anti-football manager that Ribolovlev got so that he could sell his most expensive players(at the time) and not have a say from his manager.
P.S.3
I think I'm becoming Ty
I think cause of his last job and the way he left, the lot of you forget that Mourinho is a born winner. In fact you can ask most of his former players at Porto, Chelsea ('04-'07) and Inter. RM and Chelsea are spoiled rich kids. But even with them he delivered. His Real was the one that stopped Pep's Barca and won the league. As his Chelsea (2nd time) won the league and onto the Semis of the CL. Maybe you are being too influenced by the anti-Mourinho media agenda, or former legends of the club that get paid to talk shit (like my all time favourite player Scholes). The thing is that some of our players don't look United-material (mentally I mean). I trust Jose on this and I'm fully behind him. He's proven that wherever he's gone, delivered. We should get behind the manager, we're not Chelsea ffs and he's not the Moyes-material, thank god. We are United and that means that the team is above every diva that fancies himself above the club(Ramos, Casillias, Hazard...).
Even if that means that some quality players need to go and bring in players that know the meaning and weight of the shirt they're wearing
What the feck happened during these 2 weeks? We beat Chelsea, we beat Crystal Palace, we beat the Scousers and we lost to Sevilla. So fecking what?
I know we should be beating them even with our 2nd team, but that didn't happen. So people, please just move along. These aren't the droids we were looking for. Maybe next year we'll take advantage the gained experience from this one and be better(I'm so fecking sure about this one).
We had our ups and downs but in general it's been a relative OK year compared to every post-SAF year, and it isn't over yet. Younger players cut their teeth for the first time in CL(Rashford, Lukaku, Bailly...) also CL football once again, better than our previous freakshow that was under LVG, Old Trafford is becoming the fortress that once was, most of Jose's signings are top draw footballers even if their not performing at the moment (Sanchez, Pogba), they will eventually.
I really can't tell if all the Mourinho, Pogba etc. haters in here are trolls like the ones that exist in M.E.N. Or they just dislike Mou for whatever reason and just want him to crash and burn even if this means that the team will go downhill. If it's the latter I guess they're not really Manchester United supporters, are they?
P.S.
Maybe you forget all these comments in the press about how SAF is past it and should retire and all these kind of things, when Mourinho dominated with his Chelsea. We all know how this turned out
P.S.2
He will be appreciated after he leaves, for most of his signings and for infusing strong mentallity to the players to be able to lift the weight of the shirt.
Right now you are shouting about Jardim, Ancelotti etc. Maybe you bypass the fact that Jardim for example was in his 3rd year that Showed the world of his great Monaco side. The previous 2 was the boring anti-football manager that Ribolovlev got so that he could sell his most expensive players(at the time) and not have a say from his manager.
P.S.3
I think I'm becoming Ty
Building a team of winners is a different job from building a team of attackers. Mourinho is trying to do both at the same time.
Finding top quality players who are also mentally strong is difficult. Tottenham, for all their good football, are still bottlers.
@Bastian to still be blaming Moyes and Van Gaal for our ills two years into a regime which has spent nearly half a billion pound is a cowards way out.
What makes it worse is that his own signings are letting him down the most.. the two worst performers are Pogba and Sanchez, the former who looks depressed under his management.
So let's look at those first before we start blaming past purchases especially when one of his favourites is the out of depth Fellaini who he has been begging to stay - so much for being trusted to conduct a clear out of previously poor signings.
Our start was vastly overblown - it was recognised by many that we were benefiting from some very flattering score lines which masked how fortunate we were in certain games where we lacked cohesion and were stumbling upon individual moments. Nevertheless points were rolling in and no one minded too much until Anfield where it was the first exposure of how something wasn't quite right from a tactical perspective and the first proper insight into Mourinhos lack of footballing identity.
Since the game, we've flitted in and out of games, resolutely picking up points with a lot of luck thrown in and the odd game where we have played well. Funnily enough whenever we have had a excellent performance (Arsenal, Everton and Liverpool) - it's been the manager whose then gone on to change the system or personnel, only for us to then lose the momentum garnered from that win.
If I had full control I'd bin him right away. I'd then draw up a list of players who also need to follow him and the sort of players who would desert any manager and just aren't up to it. They would go too in the summer early doors.
Obviously then appoint a new manager but attacking methodology would be the first thing I look for and Champions league experience. That would be the prerequisite.
What makes it worse is that his own signings are letting him down the most.. the two worst performers are Pogba and Sanchez, the former who looks depressed under his management.
So let's look at those first before we start blaming past purchases especially when one of his favourites is the out of depth Fellaini who he has been begging to stay - so much for being trusted to conduct a clear out of previously poor signings.
Our start was vastly overblown - it was recognised by many that we were benefiting from some very flattering score lines which masked how fortunate we were in certain games where we lacked cohesion and were stumbling upon individual moments. Nevertheless points were rolling in and no one minded too much until Anfield where it was the first exposure of how something wasn't quite right from a tactical perspective and the first proper insight into Mourinhos lack of footballing identity.
Since the game, we've flitted in and out of games, resolutely picking up points with a lot of luck thrown in and the odd game where we have played well. Funnily enough whenever we have had a excellent performance (Arsenal, Everton and Liverpool) - it's been the manager whose then gone on to change the system or personnel, only for us to then lose the momentum garnered from that win.
If I had full control I'd bin him right away. I'd then draw up a list of players who also need to follow him and the sort of players who would desert any manager and just aren't up to it. They would go too in the summer early doors.
Obviously then appoint a new manager but attacking methodology would be the first thing I look for and Champions league experience. That would be the prerequisite.
He didnt call out individuals. And the Aberdeen one he expressed regret years later, and put it down to relative inexperience as a manager. As far as the Anfield one, you'd have to point me towards when this happened, since I cant recall it. But he'd never have called out any individual publicly, I can guarantee you that.
Demanding for almost 2 football years solid that your players follow your own negative scribt to the detail – often contradicting players attacking talent and creativity – then 2 days of training with ”expansive football” and all of your players can not adapt for the one match and you go out and blast them in your after match press conference. Beyond anything seen at this club before? Proably.
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