g = window.googletag || {}; googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || []; window.googletag = googletag; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var interstitialSlot = googletag.defineOutOfPageSlot('/17085479/redcafe_gam_interstitial', googletag.enums.OutOfPageFormat.INTERSTITIAL); if (interstitialSlot) { interstitialSlot.addService(googletag.pubads()); } });

Sergej Milinkovic Savic

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,666
I think Fred to replace Carrick as a deeper midfielder that passes through the lines is good. Savic to replace Fellaini as a physical advanced midfielder is also good.

We also have the option to a play a spanish 4-4-2 with genuine midfielders in wide positions.
Can Savic play wide tho? With our full backs we will be lacking width in that formation and will be more predictable.

Also Savic is not dynamic enough to play a box to box role next to Pogba and Matic.

With his price tag in mind I'd rather we go after Saul..
 

Invictus

Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018
Staff
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
15,289
Supports
Piracy on the High Seas.
Pogba needs competition, wouldn't have a problem with having two players with similar qualities. We need that.
Do we need to spend €100 million on direct competition, though? Because that's one of the biggest issues with any proposed move for Milinković-Savić — you'll have to pay a world-record fee (for central midfielders) to prise him from Lazio — aside from the fact that he's almost definitely not going to accept a “competition for Pogba” role at the age of 23 when he could very well start (on a consistent basis) for a close-to-elite club in the near future.

Plus, in terms of versatility and offering a complementary skill set, you could argue that his teammate, Luis Alberto, would be a better signing for United. He could play as the 10 ahead of Pogba + Matić/Herrera against teams that aren't as dominant as United in a slightly lopsided 4-2-3-1, he could play in lieu of Pogba as the 8/10 in a 4-3-3 (taking care of the Pogna competition part) — ahead of Matić and Herrera (or some other central midfielder), and given his ability to play incisive De Bruyne-esque passes for Immobile and co. he would a godsend for the likes of Lukaku and Sánchez (particularly on counters):


Additionally, he's excellent from set-pieces (something we tend to struggle with):
 

VanHaal'sRedArmy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Messages
2,623
Still think we need a technical midget -

City - Silva
Barca- Iniesta
Madrid - Modric
Bayern - Thaigo
Juventus - Pjanic

All of them have one. And they're the top 5 teams in Europe. Who's available though is the bigger question.
Neves
 

United Pro

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
2,702
Location
London
I think Fred to replace Carrick as a deeper midfielder that passes through the lines is good. Savic to replace Fellaini as a physical advanced midfielder is also good.

We also have the option to a play a spanish 4-4-2 with genuine midfielders in wide positions.
Neither Carrick or Fellaini have been first team players this season though. Given that Fred will cost £40m+ and SMS reportedly £80m+, that's pretty expensive for squad players. If we were to play a 433 next season, then signing one of Fred or SMS makes sense to play RCM alongside Pogba and Matic. Fred, if anything, makes more sense as he'll sit deeper alongside Matic and help dictate the play, which will allow Pogba greater freedom to roam forward. SMS is much better in that Pogba role, so it can hypothetically work if both him and Pogba take turns going forward and back. However, I'd still feel like we'd be lacking a bit of technical ability from a deep lying play making sense in the latter case.

Besides, if we were specifically targeting a Carrick replacement, I would have thought that we would be looking more at Jorginho, Weigl or Seri. Signing Fred indicates to me that we're only signing 1 midfielder this summer, as he's comfortable in either a midfield 2 or 3 and generally plays alongside a deeper midfielder in Stepanenko.
 

breakout67

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
9,050
Supports
Man City
Neither Carrick or Fellaini have been first team players this season though. Given that Fred will cost £40m+ and SMS reportedly £80m+, that's pretty expensive for squad players. If we were to play a 433 next season, then signing one of Fred or SMS makes sense to play RCM alongside Pogba and Matic. Fred, if anything, makes more sense as he'll sit deeper alongside Matic and help dictate the play, which will allow Pogba greater freedom to roam forward. SMS is much better in that Pogba role, so it can hypothetically work if both him and Pogba take turns going forward and back. However, I'd still feel like we'd be lacking a bit of technical ability from a deep lying play making sense in the latter case.

Besides, if we were specifically targeting a Carrick replacement, I would have thought that we would be looking more at Jorginho, Weigl or Seri. Signing Fred indicates to me that we're only signing 1 midfielder this summer, as he's comfortable in either a midfield 2 or 3 and generally plays alongside a deeper midfielder in Stepanenko.
My preference is to buy Fred and play him in midfield with Matic and Pogba.

The idea behind replacing Carrick and Fellaini is that they 'should' be featuring heavily but do not because one is retired and the other is not good enough. So we get in players to improve the quality of the squad as replacements.

Replacing Carrick doesn't mean getting the same type of player in. We already have a strong DM in place so the replacement for Carrick would not need that quality, However, what we do not have is someone that can open up the game from deep areas. Pogba can open up the game further up as a playmaker, but tends to over complicate things when playing deeper.
 

extincti fugax hominum

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
891
Location
Combat
That would mean he'd be a direct replacement for Fellaini. Which is what Mourinho said he'd be after if Fellaini leaves. Would make sense right? That being said I would like us to go for a technical playmaker instead of another physical unit.
Which would be quite idiotic to pay 100 million for a Fellaini replacement. I absolutely get the Javier Pastore vibe from this Savic hyping not because they are similar in talent or position etc. but the way they both are/were talked about in Italy. Anyone remember how that mad bastard Maurizio Zamparini talked about Pastore as if he was the second coming of Jesus? He said that Real and Barca need to pay 70 million for buying just a leg of Pastore in 2011. And he sold him to PSG a couple of months later for 40 million :lol: Napoli president Aurelio De Laurentiis did absolutely the same thing with Cavani too. I'm not saying Savic is shit but the crafty Italians definitely love to hype their players to no end to get as much money as they can get. Savic isn't worth even half of that amount imo.
 

United Pro

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
2,702
Location
London
My preference is to buy Fred and play him in midfield with Matic and Pogba.

The idea behind replacing Carrick and Fellaini is that they 'should' be featuring heavily but do not because one is retired and the other is not good enough. So we get in players to improve the quality of the squad as replacements.

Replacing Carrick doesn't mean getting the same type of player in. We already have a strong DM in place so the replacement for Carrick would not need that quality, However, what we do not have is someone that can open up the game from deep areas. Pogba can open up the game further up as a playmaker, but tends to over complicate things when playing deeper.
I can agree with improving the quality of the squad, but I'd prefer doing that by primarily improving the quality of the first team. I think we currently have a very strong squad, but where we're lacking compared to City is in the quality of specific areas of our team. So, I'd much prefer us to spend on specifically closing that gap in terms of the first team. With regards to our midfield, even if Fellaini and Carrick are to leave, we still have a reasonable number of midfielders: Matic, Pogba, Herrera, McTominay and Pereira coming back from loan. Imo we'd still be lacking a deeplying playmaker and a mobile box to box that can contribute defensively and offensively. Matic will still be playing as the deepest of our midfielders next season, so we should focus on a box to box midfielder. If that midfielder is SMS, then fair enough. But, given the market, I don't think spending £80m+ on him is the best move, as we would also need 2 first team full backs and arguably a centre back.
 

Dante

Average bang
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
25,280
Location
My wit's end
Our attackers are all strikers. The link between midfield and the front three isn't good enough, either from the forwards dropping back or the midfielders pushing up. Pogba is not a natural in that role, so relying on him alone is not the answer.

Savic's ability to pick up pockets of space, drive forward and get into the box is a perfect fit for what we already have, imo. There's no top quality false #9 or #8 in the side otherwise. It's why we play better with Lingard (or Mkhitaryan before him). And why Fellaini raises the level of the players around him, even though he isn't particularly good himself. An upgrade on the right as well would be great, but I don't want to have a single man be the key to our attack. That responsibility should be spread around as much as possible, and our previous investments in attack make midfield the best place to do that to start off with.

Pogba and Savic are both all-rounders that aren't good enough at any one thing to be the sole creative outlet. But together, they could be great.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
29,717
Location
Birmingham
I think Fred to replace Carrick as a deeper midfielder that passes through the lines is good. Savic to replace Fellaini as a physical advanced midfielder is also good.

We also have the option to a play a spanish 4-4-2 with genuine midfielders in wide positions.
What team do you play if we get those two midfielders then?
 

Nick.

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2016
Messages
1,033
I'm assuming a Spanish 4-4-2 is just what Atletico did which is to use 4 central midfielder without wingers?
 

TrebleFan99

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
Messages
256
I suppose we'd play something like:

Valencia / Bailly / Jones / Sandro
SMS / Fred / Matic / Pogba
Lukaku / Sanchez

Depending on who we get in of course.
For the prices mentioned is seems crazy to play SMS wide.

Having said that I’d give it a go, just seems tragic having Lingard and Rashford in the bench here
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
29,717
Location
Birmingham
I suppose we'd play something like:

Valencia / Bailly / Jones / Sandro
SMS / Fred / Matic / Pogba
Lukaku / Sanchez

Depending on who we get in of course.
Looks good, to be honest. A 4222, which is more or less the formation we're playing at the moment. Not sure I'd want SMS to replace Lingard, though.
 

Axkiko

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
438
Can Savic play wide tho? With our full backs we will be lacking width in that formation and will be more predictable.

Also Savic is not dynamic enough to play a box to box role next to Pogba and Matic.

With his price tag in mind I'd rather we go after Saul..
Saul isn't a box to box player but Savic is really good on that role.

People would assume him and Pogba couldn't player together. Lack of dynamic but physically very strong.
I saw someone said Savic-Pogba are similar to Gerrard and Lampard situation. The difference were we are gonna play 433 next season. Matic/New DM can provides stability which Gerrard and Lampard never had before.

Kroos and Modric were not dynamic as well, but they have good understanding and clever enough to collaborate.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,313
Location
...
He looks a player, but I think I’m also in the techno midget camp personally. Even then, most options still lack a key ingredient. Losing what Herrera gives the team would be huge IMO - we need that running and tackling ability, just a bit more quality on the ball than Ander provides I think.

Kovacic is literally perfect, has the steel of Ander and the silk of Modric. That said, Zidane has started him in some big games this season and he probably feels he has a future there, with Modric fading.

Failing that, maybe we could throw obscene amounts of money at Atletico in the biggest Koke deal since the days of Pablo. He too would be the perfect equilibrium for Matic and Pogba. Everyone else I can think of is sacrificing one thing to get another.
 

Sanche7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
2,796
Saul isn't a box to box player but Savic is really good on that role.

People would assume him and Pogba couldn't player together. Lack of dynamic but physically very strong.
I saw someone said Savic-Pogba are similar to Gerrard and Lampard situation. The difference were we are gonna play 433 next season. Matic/New DM can provides stability which Gerrard and Lampard never had before.

Kroos and Modric were not dynamic as well, but they have good understanding and clever enough to collaborate.
The two three times I watched SMS play, he jogs around a lot, doesn't track back much or is not mobile enough to do so.
What we lack is someone who can cover a lot of ground and provide the press
If we are planning on going 4-2-2-2,then it could work with Matic and a high energy mobile pressing CM to do the defending and pressing when Pogba and SMS focus more on scoring and creating with occasional defending
The perfect player if we want to go 4-3-3 is Keita, mobile, fast, great stamina, creative and also very good at driving forward from the midfield.
One article I read called him a mix of Ribery and Kante.
I know he is goning to Pool, but he is the kind of player we must be looking for.
Fred kind of fits the bill so does Kovacic
 

Reynoldo

Full Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
4,970
Location
Dublin
He looks a player, but I think I’m also in the techno midget camp personally. Even then, most options still lack a key ingredient. Losing what Herrera gives the team would be huge IMO - we need that running and tackling ability, just a bit more quality on the ball than Ander provides I think.

Kovacic is literally perfect, has the steel of Ander and the silk of Modric. That said, Zidane has started him in some big games this season and he probably feels he has a future there, with Modric fading.

Failing that, maybe we could throw obscene amounts of money at Atletico in the biggest Koke deal since the days of Pablo. He too would be the perfect equilibrium for Matic and Pogba. Everyone else I can think of is sacrificing one thing to get another.
:lol:
 

Gordon S

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,760
He looks a player, but I think I’m also in the techno midget camp personally. Even then, most options still lack a key ingredient. Losing what Herrera gives the team would be huge IMO - we need that running and tackling ability, just a bit more quality on the ball than Ander provides I think.

Kovacic is literally perfect, has the steel of Ander and the silk of Modric. That said, Zidane has started him in some big games this season and he probably feels he has a future there, with Modric fading.

Failing that, maybe we could throw obscene amounts of money at Atletico in the biggest Koke deal since the days of Pablo. He too would be the perfect equilibrium for Matic and Pogba. Everyone else I can think of is sacrificing one thing to get another.
Yes! Koke is good enough to be a starting midfielder for almost any team out there.
Would love it if we gave it a proper go!
 

broccoli

Full Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
3,124
Supports
FCPorto
Koke would fit in a Mourinho midfield like a glove but he doesn't strike me as the type of player who would fancy leaving Atletico for England. We earns well, is a key player for them, no reason to leave "home".
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,313
Location
...
Koke would fit in a Mourinho midfield like a glove but he doesn't strike me as the type of player who would fancy leaving Atletico for England. We earns well, is a key player for them, no reason to leave "home".
I agree, I couldn’t see such a move happening. That said, I do think he is the type of player that would love to play under Jose, and feel they share similar values on the game.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
34,172
Any of the Atletico midfielders would fit Mourinho’s side like a glove. Koke, Saul, Partey. Heck even Gabi if he was a year or two younger.
 

reddaz71

New Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
960
Location
Cheshire
De Gea
Valencia
Bailly
Umtiti
Sandro
Savic
Pogba
Willian
Sanchez
Bale
Lukaku

I mean come on, who wouldn't want that line up!
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,313
Location
...
De Gea
Valencia
Bailly
Umtiti
Sandro
Savic
Pogba
Willian
Sanchez
Bale
Lukaku

I mean come on, who wouldn't want that line up!
It’s a ridiculous lineup, not to mention totally unrealistic.
 

King Andow

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
1,172
Location
Brazil
De Gea
Valencia
Bailly
Umtiti
Sandro
Savic
Pogba
Willian
Sanchez
Bale
Lukaku

I mean come on, who wouldn't want that line up!
Valencia starting, Sandro who's bad this season, midfield exposed and a very expensive crock. Maybe on FIFA...

I don't think we need Savic, plus we can buy 2 fullbacks with the money that he'd cost.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,472
Location
Birmingham
De Gea
Valencia
Bailly
Umtiti
Sandro
Savic
Pogba
Willian
Sanchez
Bale
Lukaku

I mean come on, who wouldn't want that line up!
I don't want it. Couple of problems.
Valencia and Bale.
The entire line behind Lukaku is pushing 30.
 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
13,296
Didnt koke sign a stupid 15 year contract or was that saul?
Saul I think signed a 9 year contract but it’s supposedly illegal to do such a thing in Spain and it actually makes no sense for him personally either so not sure if it’s true.
 

Nick7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
19,349
Location
Ireland
Saul I think signed a 9 year contract but it’s supposedly illegal to do such a thing in Spain and it actually makes no sense for him personally either so not sure if it’s true.
I'm pretty sure FIFA itself doesn't allow contracts longer than 5 years.
 

Nick7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
19,349
Location
Ireland
That might be what I read. There was certainly something where it’s not allowed, be it FIFA or Spanish law.
I had a look. Yeah it seems it's FIFA. Though options for extra years are fine, so maybe that's what Saul's contract is. 5 years plus an option for extra years.
 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
13,296
I had a look. Yeah it seems it's FIFA. Though options for extra years are fine, so maybe that's what Saul's contract is. 5 years plus an option for extra years.
That would make sense. Although I can’t for the life of me think why a footballer at his age would sign such a contract. You would think you’d want the negotiating power to up your wage and so on and just to give yourself options to leave if your circumstances change.
 

Paxi

Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
27,678
How likely is this to happen?
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
120,600
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Do we need to spend €100 million on direct competition, though? Because that's one of the biggest issues with any proposed move for Milinković-Savić — you'll have to pay a world-record fee (for central midfielders) to prise him from Lazio — aside from the fact that he's almost definitely not going to accept a “competition for Pogba” role at the age of 23 when he could very well start (on a consistent basis) for a close-to-elite club in the near future.

Plus, in terms of versatility and offering a complementary skill set, you could argue that his teammate, Luis Alberto, would be a better signing for United. He could play as the 10 ahead of Pogba + Matić/Herrera against teams that aren't as dominant as United in a slightly lopsided 4-2-3-1, he could play in lieu of Pogba as the 8/10 in a 4-3-3 (taking care of the Pogna competition part) — ahead of Matić and Herrera (or some other central midfielder), and given his ability to play incisive De Bruyne-esque passes for Immobile and co. he would a godsend for the likes of Lukaku and Sánchez (particularly on counters):


Additionally, he's excellent from set-pieces (something we tend to struggle with):
He’s definitely a good player no doubt about that
 

Ikon

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
2,430
I don't think we need Savic, plus we can buy 2 fullbacks with the money that he'd cost.
Have to agree with that.
From what I've seen of Savic, he does look to fill a very similar role to Pogba, and doesn't seem to have any more defensive nous about him either.
Pogba-Matic-Savic in a 3 just doesn't feel to have the right blend or balance to me, and what's more, you won't get a lot of change from £100M.

Just imagine which FBs you could sign with £100M as your budget..
 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
13,296
Do we need to spend €100 million on direct competition, though? Because that's one of the biggest issues with any proposed move for Milinković-Savić — you'll have to pay a world-record fee (for central midfielders) to prise him from Lazio — aside from the fact that he's almost definitely not going to accept a “competition for Pogba” role at the age of 23 when he could very well start (on a consistent basis) for a close-to-elite club in the near future.

Plus, in terms of versatility and offering a complementary skill set, you could argue that his teammate, Luis Alberto, would be a better signing for United. He could play as the 10 ahead of Pogba + Matić/Herrera against teams that aren't as dominant as United in a slightly lopsided 4-2-3-1, he could play in lieu of Pogba as the 8/10 in a 4-3-3 (taking care of the Pogna competition part) — ahead of Matić and Herrera (or some other central midfielder), and given his ability to play incisive De Bruyne-esque passes for Immobile and co. he would a godsend for the likes of Lukaku and Sánchez (particularly on counters):


Additionally, he's excellent from set-pieces (something we tend to struggle with):
I started watching Lazio games to get a look at SMS as everyone was raving about him. He didn’t really impress me but the player that stood out was this guy and Jordan Lukaku. Alberto looks like a really clever player. Was impressed with him the 4-5 times I saw him play.