Only watchable game is Germany x Mexico.
Group F (Germany, Mexico, Sweden, South Korea)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Looking shit is our thing. Germany always looks shit before tournaments. It's after the group stages that we turn on the heat. Heck, we've managed to be kicked out of group stages not too long ago during a Euro. That was... unexpected.
Korea has been very poor for a while now. Almost coinciding to exactly when Park retired for the national team. Ki and Son (only bright spots) plus 9 stiffs.
Winning the group isn't underperforming. You can't apply the same standards to a national team that play together maybe 10 times a year at most and with different players at that.
You guys honestly sound like two Bayern fans talking about the standard of the German NT. It's not something I'd expect from other fans and it's not the experience that for example my brother has after speaking to Germans at the recent UEFA Nations League event. Expecting the team to win everyone easily in the group is just asking way too much. It's a knockout tournament, not a round-robin qualifier. You expect the team to qualify and if they do, job done. After that you take it one game at a time. Doesn't matter what your country is called. No one is entitled to win anything and that kind of mentality is what will make you end up 3rd or 4th.
Well Germany's stature in the world is kind of comparable to Bayern's in club football, so I don't really see where you're going with that comparison and it's not like anyone is throwing a fit or calling for Löw's head over it either. It's just acknowledging facts.
Except that's not true for a team like Germany and probably also Spain. Neuer, Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Müller - that's half the starting XI playing for Bayern, with Kroos you can even add a 6th as a former player. Neuer, Boateng, Hummels, Kroos, Khedira, Müller, Özil that's a 7 player spine which has been playing together nearly every competitive match since 2010. Even someone like Reus has played 30 matches for the team, despite his many injuries and Hector has been playing at the left for four years now, too.
The only fresh faces are Werner and ter Stegen. Germany ooze cohesion, it's perhaps the biggest strength of the squad.
Looks like there's a consensus about this among you germans.. How did Reus manage to fight his way back into the team? Wasn't he a bit in and out of the squad?
That was because of injuries, majority of German fans would say he should start if he's fit because he is clearly still the best winger we have (infront of Sane, Draxler, Brandt). Time and time again he's come back from long term injuries to continue to play a high level, as he has this season again.
The competition (Draxler, Sane, maybe Brandt) just isn't that stiff for Reus and he's a very good, versatile/complete and experienced player who usually does well in high pressure situations. So people expect him to take the spot on the left.
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Germany is the worst possible opponent for Mexico. It's the only one of the big historic sides that they never, ever beat in official games (as a matter of fact I cannot remember them beating them in a friendly either). They would have prefered any other seeded team.
Having said that, they are good enough to just pip Sweden for second place.
Having said that, they are good enough to just pip Sweden for second place.
Mexico with a 100m+ population really should have a better team IMO.
I think outside of west/central Europe (and even here you may bring up England) NT strength and size of population isnt exactly strongly correlated.
What do Germany fans think about the striker position? Mueller, with Timo Werner as a sub? Werner did well in the Confed Cup and I'm optimistic about him. Offers an outlet for Germany's possession game and if he is clinical enough, I feel he might win a starting position, maybe even during the tournament. Not sure what to make of Nils Peterson or Mario Gomez.
Some key starting eleven decisions:
Reus vs Draxler
Khedira vs Gundogan/Goretzka
Oezil vs Sane
Some key starting eleven decisions:
Reus vs Draxler
Khedira vs Gundogan/Goretzka
Oezil vs Sane
@SirMattBugsby
Werner will most likely begin the tournament as a starter. Löw let him play a lot in the padt and he did alright.
Khedira will be a starter, I think Gündogan's and Goretzka's best chance will be that Özil is having a bad tournament and Löw switches to 3 CMs.
Sane has next to no chance at a starting XI spot.
Reus should start ahead of Draxler. The only thing that might cost him is Löw's loyalty and his lack of NT matches I'm the more recent past.
Werner will most likely begin the tournament as a starter. Löw let him play a lot in the padt and he did alright.
Khedira will be a starter, I think Gündogan's and Goretzka's best chance will be that Özil is having a bad tournament and Löw switches to 3 CMs.
Sane has next to no chance at a starting XI spot.
Reus should start ahead of Draxler. The only thing that might cost him is Löw's loyalty and his lack of NT matches I'm the more recent past.
Werner starts no question, he is a fantastic striker and I expect big things of him in the WC.
Other than that:
Reus vs Draxler: Reus is simply a better player
Khedira vs Gundogan/Goretzka: Khedira's abilities might be declining but his experience and intelligence are vital.
Oezil vs Sane: Sane has yet to provide great performances for Germany in the chances he has gotten while Ozil, despite his indifferent Arsenal form, has consistently played well for Germany in that period.
Not sure if you have followed the last tournaments, but the last time Germany went out in group stage was in 1978. After that we always ended up in the top three except for the dark times in '94 and '98 where we went out in quarterfinals. It's a safe bet to say we'll get out of group stages. It might not be pretty, but I'd be more surprised if we actually defended the title than if we didn't make it out of group stages.
Indeed. But with football being by far the nr.1 sport in Mexico, good stadiums and rich clubs and big tv deals with a strong domestic league, they really should be doing much better than they do. They've been U-17 and U-20 world champions so the talent is there but they just never seem to take the next step.
I think it's a safe bet that they will both start. Werner up front, Müller at RW, but you can't really nail him down to one position anyway. Actually, in most matches, Müller started as a winger. I'm so excited to see Timo Werner in a proper tournament. He might be one of the best runners world-wide because he times his runs so precisely that he's almost never offside. When you have playmakers like Özil and Kroos, that's just a disaster for every defensive line that's going to have to face us. Any opponent that isn't 100% disciplined will have to pick a poison sooner or later: either deny the openings for Werner, which gives or midfielders more room to operate or press early and get overrun by Werner, Reus or Sané. And then there's still Müller, a guy who operates without any reasonable pattern and always seems to find the right spot to be in at the right time. I'm not saying we're going to win it, but I like our chances.
Mostly agree, although I'm not sure if Khedira has the energy and coverage to complement Kroos in a two-man central midfield. He's been more sedate since the knee injury four years back, although admittedly he still goes box-to-box efficiently.
The only reason I was considering Sane was the element of pace but if Werner starts, his qualities aren't that necessary. Wasn't questioning Oezil, he's one of my favorite players and we all know he turns up for die Mannschaft
That's what I admire about Germany the most. The players are scattered in different teams across different leagues (Bayern presence isn't very strong, especially in attack) but whenever they play together, the team chemistry and interplay is top-notch. And it's not like Germany is an individualistic nation either, quite the opposite. I tend to question the relevance of national identity (and the World Cup) nowadays but this team shows that it can co-exist with success.
Actually, there aren't many valid alternative options. Gundogan was given a chance to establish himself on Kroos' side vs Brazil, he bottled it in truly epic fashion, though. Goretzka is much better going forward than he is at playing interceptor. Can probably would have been a contender, but his injury made this a none-option.
Is the Mexican league really that strong? Not many European clubs seem to buy there.
It's obviously not as strong as the big European leagues or let's say the Brazilian league. But the reason European clubs don't buy there is because wages are high and clubs are well funded so you cannot buy cheap. You get a much better player for your money in Argentina, Chile or Colombia. Guys like Marco Fabian at Eintracht Frankfurt have said in interviews that they want to play in Europe for the challenge and that he could actually get higher wages from a Mexican club than he does playing for Frankfurt.
Oh I see, that's not a typical problem to have. It also explains why the Mexican NT might be underperforming though.
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I like it. Players nowadays are so often labeled as soft, complacent millionaires. It's nice to see them work hard and to see that they care.
I didn't know Klose was a coach now? Excellent to have his experience at hand in a tournament like this.
Did his courses and worked as an assistant for the national team in the last 2 seasons. And will be U17 coach for Bayern next season.
Müller never really was the striker for Germany - he just had to jump in sometimes when he was needed there. Klose was the main striker in the last World Cup - because of injury and age problems he did not play in all of the matches.
I have seen so many English articles lately in which this was done wrong. He is not in a competition with Werner but it could be that he might have to play striker when Werner fails as then I think Löw might prefer to bring in another one of the Reus/Draxler/Sanes instead of a player like Gomez. Müller played on the right in about 85 of 90 matches he played for Germany. It is the same type of pundits that only see his 38 goals for Germany (31 in competitive matches) and not the 36 assists.
Germany was playing against the U20 again today who tried to act like the group opponents. Speciality was that the U20 had Neuer in goal. Last match on Saturday Germany won with 7:1 - today it only was 2:0. A last test will be made Saturday against Austria. If then Neuer performs and does not have any problems he will be goalie and captain in the World Cup.
I have a soft spot for Mexico and hope they can get through. They key will be getting through that Germany match without getting battered. Mexico has a miserable record against Germany and the Germans tend to come out guns blazing first game and get a bunch of goals. That could be tough then playing Sweden who'll play defensively.
Even if Mexico does get through it's Brazil in the next round but they do have a decent record against the Brazilians. The World Cup is a different kettle of fish though and Mexico has never advanced past the last-16 outside of Mexico.
Even if Mexico does get through it's Brazil in the next round but they do have a decent record against the Brazilians. The World Cup is a different kettle of fish though and Mexico has never advanced past the last-16 outside of Mexico.
I wouldn't be surprised if Germany rolls over Mexico, draws Sweden and only beats SK somewhat narrowly, majorly screwing Mexico by just having a typical Germany group stage.
I touched on Germany's record in another post. In 1978 there were 2 group stages so Germany bascically went out in the quarter finals that tournament.
I know, but you get the point on why people are talking differently about the German team than they do about Iceland, just to pick your own NT as an example. When you get out of group stages and start knocking people out in the knock out phases, it's something of a miracle and everyone is excited. Germany? Not so much.
It is what everybody expects. This day that includes a good match, too, not just winning.
There is some material about the German team - press conferences, the first 15 minutes of training sessions, one or two full training sessions, the meeting with the national team of blind footballers from today with english commentary:
https://mixer.com/DFB-Team?vod=36547888
(you have to scroll down to "Alle Streams anzeigen" to see all of the videos)
I don't get that people are unhappy with Germany winning the group no. It shows lack of understanding to me to find it unacceptable how they do it sometimes and like I've said, performance in group stages, particulary game 3 when you've already qualified, doesn't predict the performance in the knockouts. It's a different beast.
What happens with Sweden if Forsberg is in bad form ? I recknon all the pressure will be on him to make the unexpected happen.
Tbf nobody here has any expectations. We're happy we're there and it will be fun watching us give it a go. If we go past the group stages it would count as a success.
The coach made the right call by not taking Ibra ?
I think it's doable. We have a well-balanced team, and a coach that knows what he is doing. We always perform the best when we are underdogs, too. (setting myself up to be disappointed... again
)This Ibra yeah. Last season's pre and injury Ibra would have been on that plane.
Actually Forsberg comes out of a bad season. 5 goals and 4 assists in all competitions and had injury problems.
Yeah but he is by a long distance their highest profile player now and being 26 yet, he will be expected to be the main threat of Sweden for the next four or five years unless someone better comes around
I get it though, there's no real pressure on them
Edit: Sorry Rudiger fight already covered on last page.