How is that opinion even remotely justifiable. Wanting them both out is one thing but actually picking Jose as the one you would rather stay - that is irrational... a number of players aren’t playing well under him, a number of players in the past have downed tools under him, so why would you prefer he stays?
Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]
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People need to remember that Hazard was dire in Jose’s last season and once JM left he looked a different player. The players need to take a lot of responsibility but in saying that it is the managers job to get the best out of his players and JM isn’t doing that.
I agree with most of your points and Jose is bringing the club to the ground with his onfield and off field ethics. Pogba could play for the jersey instead of our horrible manager is what I fealt. I can't wait for this cloud of negativity to be lifted .
one-man midfield? how do you arrive at that conclusion?
This is just so irrational.
Yes Pogba is not as good as he himself thinks he is. However not a single player is performing consistently well for years now and you would rather get rid of a player than the manager? What is that gonna solve?
I would prefer if Pogba took the approach of DDG in that he gives his all and looks a world class player even when the rest of the team is falling apart around him. There's no doubting he is a top player with the potential to push to WC levels if he can maintain form.
That being said, in defence of the man, Mourinho persisting with out of form players like Matic and Lukaku or not having a recognized right winger in the team heaps more expectation on Pogba to deliver as a defensive and attacking force.
I am not convinced Pogba will make it by any means but I think other managers would use him differently and we might see a more effective and consistent performance as a result.
That being said, in defence of the man, Mourinho persisting with out of form players like Matic and Lukaku or not having a recognized right winger in the team heaps more expectation on Pogba to deliver as a defensive and attacking force.
I am not convinced Pogba will make it by any means but I think other managers would use him differently and we might see a more effective and consistent performance as a result.
DDG pretty much conceeds a goal a game. No body is moaning at him. Stop attacking our players. It’s a social biased against Pogba as simple as that.
Don’t agree with the last bit, Mourinho simply has to go but you’re spot on with your assessment of Pogba - he’s not even close to World Class. Get rid of them both along with that muppet Woodward and let’s start again.
@mitchmouse
If we were talking peak performance then of course I totally agree but we are talking here and now. Pogba has won league titles, played in CL finals, Euro finals and won a World Cup. So in recent terms he has far out performed anything Mourinho has achieved in the last 8 years. So how does your opinion stack up unless you’re going to argue that the entirety of Jose’s career needs to be taken into account and no one can ever be past their peak?
If we were talking peak performance then of course I totally agree but we are talking here and now. Pogba has won league titles, played in CL finals, Euro finals and won a World Cup. So in recent terms he has far out performed anything Mourinho has achieved in the last 8 years. So how does your opinion stack up unless you’re going to argue that the entirety of Jose’s career needs to be taken into account and no one can ever be past their peak?
If the manager loses the dressing room, then there is only one outcome. Even if the players are the ones at fault, the fact is you can't get rid of the entire team. You have to cut your losses and change the manager. A situation like this is never as simple as blaming one party over the other. I'm sure Pogba and Mourinho are as guilty as each other at allowing this situation to develop, but at the end of the day it's not just Pogba is it. Almost the entire team is performing well below expectations and seem to have regressed during his time here.
When he lost the dressing room at Chelsea, Abramovich didn't get rid of the players, he sacked their greatest ever manager because he is ruthless and does not accept failure. When you look at Hazard now compared to last season, do you really think Chelsea fans would rather they sold him and kept Mourinho? No chance!
When he lost the dressing room at Chelsea, Abramovich didn't get rid of the players, he sacked their greatest ever manager because he is ruthless and does not accept failure. When you look at Hazard now compared to last season, do you really think Chelsea fans would rather they sold him and kept Mourinho? No chance!
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To be honest, playing Pogba only halts the progress of the mythical triumvirate McTominay, Fellaini and Matic. On paper the greatest midfield in history, and yet we bash our manager for doing everything he can to make sure that those Three Amigos can operate freely by getting rid of their competitors.
Don't really understand how people defend Jose on this.
He created a toxic work environment, it's certain that most people will under perform or won't be arsed about it. It's the same as having a normal job, dunno why some people think it's different just because it's fecking football.
I can't defend Jose, it's become shameful and utter embarrassing at times. But, but, on the other side, I know what gets on his nerves, the fact that Paul turns it on when he wants to, not when his manager wants to. But that's all down to Jose.
In regards to Jose leaking this to the media, well, fcuk that, anyone near the dressing room would've heard the prick having a shout.
The truth is we're sitting here and we don't understand shi7 from what happens inside/around the club. That's how bad it got, you can't really know if the players are plain dumb or Jose is plain crazy, it's quite a circus and it needs to stop.
Jose tried to bring some authority and discipline in but it seems it went sideways and nobody gives a fek about him anymore.
He created a toxic work environment, it's certain that most people will under perform or won't be arsed about it. It's the same as having a normal job, dunno why some people think it's different just because it's fecking football.
I can't defend Jose, it's become shameful and utter embarrassing at times. But, but, on the other side, I know what gets on his nerves, the fact that Paul turns it on when he wants to, not when his manager wants to. But that's all down to Jose.
In regards to Jose leaking this to the media, well, fcuk that, anyone near the dressing room would've heard the prick having a shout.
The truth is we're sitting here and we don't understand shi7 from what happens inside/around the club. That's how bad it got, you can't really know if the players are plain dumb or Jose is plain crazy, it's quite a circus and it needs to stop.
Jose tried to bring some authority and discipline in but it seems it went sideways and nobody gives a fek about him anymore.
Hes right pogba is a virus.
But so is Mourinho.
Both are viruses but Pogba would be the virus i would choose to keep.
But so is Mourinho.
Both are viruses but Pogba would be the virus i would choose to keep.
Did Pogba have attitude problems at Juve? Apparently not. It's on Mourinho.
I can't believe people are debating this! Memories are so short-lived. Pogba just won the world cup and was being called captain material. There has to be something fundamentally wrong with the establishment if the same "leader" of a world cup winning squad is now being called a "virus" by the manager in a squad languishing 8th in the PL table.
Absolute bobbins. It's these sorts of fans which make us a laughing stock.
I bet you're all about The United Way™ too.
Because his teammates have been pretty bad over the same period of time. And we gain more points per game when he plays than when he doesn't.
Also bear in mind that I don't rate Pogba that highly and that I wouldn't mind if we were able to get our money back. I already said that in my opinion no club with a shred of common sense would pay more for him but people go way too far in their Pogba bashing. He has been by some distance our best midfielder over the last 2 and half years while being surrounded by absolutely useless teammates.
"Back manager no matter what, even if he shits on your club."
"I love how people"....so you're already saying that I'm not the only one who feels this way. And no, he isn't the only one who is playing like shit, however, he is the one who is meant to be our best player. He is the one that every United supporter has very high expectations for. He is the one that we want to see lead by example. To put the team on his back and carry us to victory. What we don't want to see is him give the ball away needlessly in midfield and then just stand there...
But what is the base of your feeling, as far as I can see his social media accounts aren't particularly active.
Anyone calling for Pogba to be sold is a disciple of Mourinho or a lunatic. If he is still putting in wank performances with a circus for the next manager, then get rid. Judging any player under Mourinho is utterly ridiculous, seeing as the whole team has been crap for 2 years.
Basically this.
As much as I agree and would like this to happen, it’s much harder to do so in midfield as opposed to being in goals - you depend a lot more on those around him
Unbelievable how Jose has managed to turn a lot of our fans on some of our best players. Similar to what he did at Chelsea with Hazard, Fabregas etc.
When he was appointed I tried to look past his previous antics like eye gouging Tito, falling out with players, Wenger comments etc in hope that he will be our saviour but it is now clear as day to me that he is an absolute fraud of a man with no integrity. Luckily it will be the last we see of him in the premier league as I don't see him getting a job at any of the top 6 clubs here.
When he was appointed I tried to look past his previous antics like eye gouging Tito, falling out with players, Wenger comments etc in hope that he will be our saviour but it is now clear as day to me that he is an absolute fraud of a man with no integrity. Luckily it will be the last we see of him in the premier league as I don't see him getting a job at any of the top 6 clubs here.
To me this is the only logical way of looking at it, certainly for most of the players. Players who were crap under the previous managers and have still managed to hold on, should be binned off sooner rather than later though.
This has been happening for years now, people just don’t see it.
We sign Di Maria, great for Madrid but after a month our fans say he’s crap.
Sign Pogba, brilliant for Juve, our fans: “he’s crap”
Sign Sánchez, brilliant for Arsenal, our fans: “he’s crap”
Would love us to assign Messi partially for the entertainment of a number of our fans calling him crap after a month.
There’s something seriously wrong at this club.
I'm sure Fergie has said some terrible things to individual players in the aftermath of poor performances, difference is Sir Alex got results and commanded respect. Mourinho doesn't have the luxury of being able to hold other people to high standards because he himself isn't hitting them. It's the hypocrisy that grates me, more than the actual criticism of Pogba.
Pogba has always had something of a childish attitude, which was somewhat understandable when he was 17/18, dicking about in his last year at the academy, but not as a professional footballer in his mid-20s. I'm unsure if he has the mentality to be the main man, it seems to go to his head and he becomes more concerned with showcasing his skills rather than using them to win football games. He seems to be at his best under less pressure when he's not the primary focus of a team's play, which is a frustrating trait for someone so obviously talented.
If he's going to be the player he's certainly capable of being, his attitude needs to change, but especially in the modern game it can take the right manager to coax that out of a player, and barring a miracle Mourinho will not be not be that manager.
Pogba has always had something of a childish attitude, which was somewhat understandable when he was 17/18, dicking about in his last year at the academy, but not as a professional footballer in his mid-20s. I'm unsure if he has the mentality to be the main man, it seems to go to his head and he becomes more concerned with showcasing his skills rather than using them to win football games. He seems to be at his best under less pressure when he's not the primary focus of a team's play, which is a frustrating trait for someone so obviously talented.
If he's going to be the player he's certainly capable of being, his attitude needs to change, but especially in the modern game it can take the right manager to coax that out of a player, and barring a miracle Mourinho will not be not be that manager.
Much easier to look good in goal though, especially with our defence. Much harder for the player who we expect to orchestrate our attack given what's around him and how much they move. Sooner Jose fecks off the better, he's toxic.
Irony here is you missed my thread in the general forum. Short answer is, I did. Under worse circumstances than the inane ones you've mentioned. No need to get personal with these comparisons in any case. Let's stick to footballers .
Wayne Rooney - club legend by the time he starts flirting publically with City. Forum and fans lose their complete shits, me included. He stays, finishes his top level career with us with about five years after of cafe asking to get rid of him .
Paul Pogba - leaves the club as a teenager after second guessing the judgement and development strategy of English footballs greatest manager. Comes back a world record transfer, social media King and has been rather undwrhelming on the pitch across the seasons let alone neared the heights of someone like Rooney . Yet so much of this forum is out defending him more than Rooney ever was. Pogba has been awful. And not because his touch is bad or his decision making needs to be refined. It's because he isn't trying. He has himself come out openly and said he is not trying hard enough.
You, as a United fan, with your club in the dumps are excusing a player complacent and open about not trying enough. I don't understand how you can love this club and be okay with that.
This doesn't quite follow with anything I've said. Did you misquote me instead of someone else mate?
I'm not saying that at all. I'm just referring in general to people who like to spout off about what is going on in somebody else's head. Have you spoken to Pogba directly about how much importance he places on his social media? I'm guessing you haven't so I don't know where you have made that assessment from. People used to say about how Martial was sulking, just because of his demeanour when there was no basis for it whatsoever.
You have also spoken for 'every United supporter'. I don't have higher expectations for Pogba more than any other player. This is Manchester United. I expect all the players and manager to be giving of their best.
Pogba was a complete clown on Saturday.
There is no chance at all he was giving 100% effort.
That's why he's getting so much stick.
There is no chance at all he was giving 100% effort.
That's why he's getting so much stick.
I 100% accept Pogba wasn't good against Southampton (I was at the game). But why does he only dig out at certain players? - We all know how abysmal Matic has been for months. It seems criticism is only reserved for some and not others.
Last season when Arsenal were a complete mess you have to respect how the manager handled it. How many times did he throw his team under the bus or blame it on transfers. He still stuck with the same team over the season and allowed the players to still play and maybe this is part of the reason they are doing well. This years team is mostly picking up from last season, it is still the same core of players. How many times did he take the blame from fans and media for his players and how many times where things leaked from outside the dressing room. United just can't keep things behind doors. Fights and problems are front page news now.
There's only one virus at United and it's Jose: a virus that has been around a while but has not adapted with the times. Outdated tactics, poor, Draconian "motivation" techniques and a woeful game plan each week. Whoever is in the seat next, needs to build around Pogba and encourage the forwards to move for him to pass to. No wonder there's extra touches, they are all static or to the side of him!!!! FFS.
No one said Di Maria was crap after a month. They said he was crap in January-February when he was clearly playing for a move.
No one said Pogba was crap after a month. Stop.
Sanchez was crap before he got here. Legs completely shot and a shadow of what he was.
Wayne Rooney worked under SAF. He questioned the club’s ambition, was torn a new one by fans and media alike, saw the club build and conquer.
Pogba is playing under a man who is constantly undermining the club and fans alike. Between Jose and Pogba, one person has dissed the club, dissed it’s European legacy, dissed the players, dissed the staff and proclaimed the club as being weak. The other has called it home. Guess why I’m in Pogba’s corner...
Go and re-watch the post-match presser after Sevilla. That man is United manager. And that’s why, as a fan, I want him out.
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