Reddy Rederson
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How they feck did you get that from what he said????"A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?
How they feck did you get that from what he said????"A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?
He is alleged to have said it in the dressing room after the game. It’s not confirmed as far as I know.Did he publicly say it? Or is it just media hype people just buy into as 100% true?
what a ridiculous jump to make"A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?
That's also my understanding, so why are people taking it as 100% truth? It's just yet another rumour that people want to make a huge issue about and moan about Jose. Fair enough if people complain about his attitude in pressers, team selections and tactics, but this is just shite...He is alleged to have said it in the dressing room after the game. It’s not confirmed as far as I know.
Yeah, get rid of the only player in midfield who can actually make things happen, and let's give Jose more players he can't get anything out of, like most of his signings. The first change needs to be the coach, then players will be evaluated at that point. Anything other than that is just completely reactionary panicky moves.No he didn't publicly say it. it was said in the dressing room and though I want Jose gone in this I support him. Pogba was a disgrace in the way he played. He got caught in possession so many times and he did fail to track back and they nearly scored. I actually think we should sell Pogba and things may also change better on the pitch with some other player bought to replace him.
Did they hang you out to dry for the companys failures?I’ve had plenty of bosses that I disliked, but I never once thought to sandbag my performance to get the manager fired! What kind of bullshit, backward thinking is that?
Mental!
Fixed that for youDid they allegedly hang you out to dry for the companys failures behind closed doors?
Why the feck would you bring race into this?"A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?
No i dont think that is delusional, i think it is pretty spot on as that squad had plenty of experienced winners. What i dont get though is how a former top class manager can lose his marbles to such a degree. The transfers are shite, the football is shite, the results are shite, and worst of all, it seems we still have not reached bottom with him at the helm.May be delusional on my part but I reckon had Mourinho taken over when Fergie retired, with the squad we had, I think he'd have his standard 3 year stint with us and definitely won a title.
The return to Chelsea broke Mourinho's mind, and also Fergie's last squad had a lot of the stuff Jose looks for - plenty of mad dogs and old heads. With a few decent signings we would definitely have stayed competitive, because Chelsea and City hardly oozed quality in Moyes' season or LVG's first season.
Instead we made all the worst possible choices and took Mourinho at the absolute worst time for him and the worst time for us.
He has stopped trusting his players since the Madrid debacle. He was known for instilling a siege mentality in his team and it's not possible to create a us vs them mentality when you keep criticizing players in public.No i dont think that is delusional, i think it is pretty spot on as that squad had plenty of experienced winners. What i dont get though is how a former top class manager can lose his marbles to such a degree. The transfers are shite, the football is shite, the results are shite, and worst of all, it seems we still have not reached bottom with him at the helm.
Some things to see though. Firstly, the parts I agree on:However bad i feel about Jose, there is nothing wrong in bashing a player behind doors. Pogba was a disgrace.
Sir Alex did not let him go. In fact, he was desperate for Pogba to sign. However, lack of opportunities at United meant Pogba decided to join Juventus. Pogba has been a model professional whilst a youth player at United, during his time at Juventus and for his national team. Let's not judge him through his social media adventures and persona outside of football.Mou is right: we don't have enough 'mad dogs' in the team. Ferguson was spot on in letting Pogba go. Despite all of the talent, he's a me guy, and not a we guy. Bon voyage to the both of them. Let's get back to high tempo, playing as a team, getting amongst it, and entertaining the fans.
That is one hell of a leap"A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?
Where this came from?"A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?
Yikss."A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?
This × 10Some things to see though. Firstly, the parts I agree on:
1. Yes - it was a disgraceful performance by Pogba. No debates about that. He was truly awful.
2. What was said behind closed doors is one thing - it's fine to blast and slam in private.
That said:
1. Can it be called "behind closed doors" when the manager then leaks it (directly or through his agent) to the Press (because Castles is very much Jose's / Mendes' man)?
2. If Jose felt this strongly, why did Pogba not only get a start, but get to play the full 90? That's not the treatment you expect towards a player that the manager feels is not only failing to pull his weight, but also lowering the performance levels of others.
In this argument, I don't think Pogba's performance level is even relevant. Frankly, we've seen equally or more abject displays from Jose's favoured sons as well - Matic and Lukaku to name just two. Jose is entitled to rant "behind closed doors", but it's telling that every time he (allegedly) has a go at Pogba, it is his favoured journos (for leaks) that come out with the quotes and words. Last time too, it was Castles who had the alleged dope and the same this time. That leads me to see it as Jose deliberately crucifying Pogba in the Press.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. No employee in any field can be held guilty for under-performing in these circumstances. As for "sand-bagging", people miss the point when it comes to sport:
1. Unlike other fields, you can't go slow and work more time when you're not at your peak. In sport, the intensity has to be at it's peak for the full game.
2. At the top, the difference between a great game and an ordinary one is tiny. The slightest dip in focus results in "horrid" games. That's what we're seeing across our team and that is why it's down to the manager.
3. In other fields, you have the option of quitting and joining a better place. No "contracts" to hold you. After a point, it's not the money that keeps you in a job, it's the lack of an incentive to quit (not the external incentive to join; the internal reason to have your CV in the market in the first place).
Anyone with any background in management will tell you of the old truism, "when a whole team is under-performing / seeing high attrition, look at the manager". As I said, poor performances from good players are always a symptom of a greater malaise. When it comes from many, that malaise is no longer "individual" to the players.
I'm not blaming one man, there are plenty in the squad who aren't up to scratch, but as this is a thread about pogba that's who I am discussing, and as an aside I couldn't give a nuns furry chuff if he won a world cup, so did kleberson, it's not relevant in any way to his performances for utd.Stop blaming one man. He’s the only one who’s got the balls in our midfield to play football, I don’t care about Fellaini’s pathetic work ethic or Matic’s boring sideways passes. I’d rather watch Pogba try things every day of the week. We are talking about a bloody World Cup winner man. But it’s like we are always trying to make the job harder than it is. The next manager needs to be building a team around Rashford, Martial and Pogba not selling them for more Fellaini’s. I don’t think 11 Scott Parker’s win the league. But I get the feeling you’d rather watch headless chickens run around caring about a badge which is just Father Christmas fairy tales. They are professional players. No one cares about the badge. Not even Roy Keane.
He did for France and came back to win a world cupHow long until there’s a disagreement with the new manager and he turns into the sulking child? He wasn’t like this at Juve, but he was also never asked to a leader, never faced adversity like he is and will continue face while at United.
I love it how people have this insider knowledge as to what is going on in a person's mind. So I'm assuming you have had a good chat with Pogba yourself? I'm surprised you didn't mention his trips to the barber. Or is that a factor too? It doesn't matter how good a player could be, they should all still be doing their best. Pogba is not the only player underperforming in that regard or lacking heart as you put it so he shouldn't be getting singled out. I'm not saying he's blameless but he's certainly not the only one.Pogba gets singled out because everyone knows how good he could be. Nobody has ever said McTominay could one be the best in the world, but it's been said about Pogba a lot. And he could be the best, or one of the best, if he played with heart. Unfortunately he doesn't have it. He is more concerned with his social media likes than his performances on the field and is the epitome of what is wrong with players today...
Pogba isn't close to what Hazard is as a player.The club have to be very careful about how to react to this situation. If Jose had his way at Chelsea, Hazard would've been gone during that season.
Pogba can be difficult to manage, no doubt, but he is the one outfield player who can change a game for United, like Hazard for Chelsea. You, as a manager and a club, need to learn how to manage those type of personalities if their skill level is as high as Pogba's is.
But pogba doesn’t change as many games as I beleive he should for the price he cost and the status he expects.Pogba can be difficult to manage, no doubt, but he is the one outfield player who can change a game for United, like Hazard for Chelsea. You, as a manager and a club, need to learn how to manage those type of personalities if their skill level is as high as Pogba's is.
If he had his way, Ramos, Pepe and maybe even Ronaldo would have been sold. The list is long though.The club have to be very careful about how to react to this situation. If Jose had his way at Chelsea, Hazard would've been gone during that season.
Pogba can be difficult to manage, no doubt, but he is the one outfield player who can change a game for United, like Hazard for Chelsea. You, as a manager and a club, need to learn how to manage those type of personalities if their skill level is as high as Pogba's is.
Amen.Some things to see though. Firstly, the parts I agree on:
1. Yes - it was a disgraceful performance by Pogba. No debates about that. He was truly awful.
2. What was said behind closed doors is one thing - it's fine to blast and slam in private.
That said:
1. Can it be called "behind closed doors" when the manager then leaks it (directly or through his agent) to the Press (because Castles is very much Jose's / Mendes' man)?
2. If Jose felt this strongly, why did Pogba not only get a start, but get to play the full 90? That's not the treatment you expect towards a player that the manager feels is not only failing to pull his weight, but also lowering the performance levels of others.
In this argument, I don't think Pogba's performance level is even relevant. Frankly, we've seen equally or more abject displays from Jose's favoured sons as well - Matic and Lukaku to name just two. Jose is entitled to rant "behind closed doors", but it's telling that every time he (allegedly) has a go at Pogba, it is his favoured journos (for leaks) that come out with the quotes and words. Last time too, it was Castles who had the alleged dope and the same this time. That leads me to see it as Jose deliberately crucifying Pogba in the Press.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. No employee in any field can be held guilty for under-performing in these circumstances. As for "sand-bagging", people miss the point when it comes to sport:
1. Unlike other fields, you can't go slow and work more time when you're not at your peak. In sport, the intensity has to be at it's peak for the full game.
2. At the top, the difference between a great game and an ordinary one is tiny. The slightest dip in focus results in "horrid" games. That's what we're seeing across our team and that is why it's down to the manager.
3. In other fields, you have the option of quitting and joining a better place. No "contracts" to hold you. After a point, it's not the money that keeps you in a job, it's the lack of an incentive to quit (not the external incentive to join; the internal reason to have your CV in the market in the first place).
Anyone with any background in management will tell you of the old truism, "when a whole team is under-performing / seeing high attrition, look at the manager". As I said, poor performances from good players are always a symptom of a greater malaise. When it comes from many, that malaise is no longer "individual" to the players.
Nice post and very much spot on.Some things to see though. Firstly, the parts I agree on:
1. Yes - it was a disgraceful performance by Pogba. No debates about that. He was truly awful.
2. What was said behind closed doors is one thing - it's fine to blast and slam in private.
That said:
1. Can it be called "behind closed doors" when the manager then leaks it (directly or through his agent) to the Press (because Castles is very much Jose's / Mendes' man)?
2. If Jose felt this strongly, why did Pogba not only get a start, but get to play the full 90? That's not the treatment you expect towards a player that the manager feels is not only failing to pull his weight, but also lowering the performance levels of others.
In this argument, I don't think Pogba's performance level is even relevant. Frankly, we've seen equally or more abject displays from Jose's favoured sons as well - Matic and Lukaku to name just two. Jose is entitled to rant "behind closed doors", but it's telling that every time he (allegedly) has a go at Pogba, it is his favoured journos (for leaks) that come out with the quotes and words. Last time too, it was Castles who had the alleged dope and the same this time. That leads me to see it as Jose deliberately crucifying Pogba in the Press.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. No employee in any field can be held guilty for under-performing in these circumstances. As for "sand-bagging", people miss the point when it comes to sport:
1. Unlike other fields, you can't go slow and work more time when you're not at your peak. In sport, the intensity has to be at it's peak for the full game.
2. At the top, the difference between a great game and an ordinary one is tiny. The slightest dip in focus results in "horrid" games. That's what we're seeing across our team and that is why it's down to the manager.
3. In other fields, you have the option of quitting and joining a better place. No "contracts" to hold you. After a point, it's not the money that keeps you in a job, it's the lack of an incentive to quit (not the external incentive to join; the internal reason to have your CV in the market in the first place).
Anyone with any background in management will tell you of the old truism, "when a whole team is under-performing / seeing high attrition, look at the manager". As I said, poor performances from good players are always a symptom of a greater malaise. When it comes from many, that malaise is no longer "individual" to the players.
Exactly. That kind of attitude doesn't suit United, whomever is managing us. It's even worse when it's our most expensive signing, one that has come off a WC win and given the captains armband by the very same coach. Take Jose out of the equation and it's still an absolutely atrocious attitude.In the middle of the first half, the NBC commentators, Arlo White and Lee Dixon, stated that Pogba was jogging around like he was in a preseason testimonial!
I don’t give a feck what Pogba thinks of Jose, just do your feckin’job!
I’ve had plenty of bosses that I disliked, but I never once thought to sandbag my performance to get the manager fired! What kind of bullshit, backward thinking is that?
Mental!
really terrible example because those three are quintessential rats...Hazard gave us all a hint tge way he announced signing for Chelsea. If you thought Jose was the reason he lost form, his bipolar seasons with Conte way too similar. He downs tools. And to top it off he has come out publicy to say Conte's football was awful and that he'd play for Jose againI have no idea how Mourinho has managed to foool so many people here. I remember a few Chelsea fans holding up "three rats" posters against Hazard, Costa and Fabreagss, now looks like Mourinho is making Pogba a rat and people are still falling for the same trick that Mourinho has pulled in his last three clubs.
I'd love to see you perform like the Employee of the Year, when your boss slams you in the Press, refuses to work in a modern style and your organization and field ensures that you can't even quit - since your contract prohibits moving unless your firm agrees to sell you to another firm, and that too, within only a specific window. Oh and all the while, you're convinced that the way your boss is making you approach the work is all wrong - and more importantly, you've proven your ability to do this work in the right way across multiple firms in the past - and even on pro bono work you've been doing during your annual leave (a project which your boss is well aware of).Exactly. That kind of attitude doesn't suit United, whomever is managing us. It's even worse when it's our most expensive signing, one that has come off a WC win and given the captains armband by the very same coach. Take Jose out of the equation and it's still an absolutely atrocious attitude.
Chelsea would have been done if Mourinho was backed and got rid off Hazard and Costa. The title with Conte wouldn't have happened at all and all Chelsea fans would take back Costa instantly.Exactly. That kind of attitude doesn't suit United, whomever is managing us. It's even worse when it's our most expensive signing, one that has come off a WC win and given the captains armband by the very same coach. Take Jose out of the equation and it's still an absolutely atrocious attitude.
really terrible example because those three are quintessential rats...Hazard gave us all a hint tge way he announced signing for Chelsea. If you thought Jose was the reason he lost form, his bipolar seasons with Conte way too similar. He downs tools. And to top it off he has come out publicy to say Conte's football was awful and that he'd play for Jose again
Diego Costa...I mean, c'mon... Conte froze him out after their record breaking season. Great player but you must be kidding yourself if you think he's some sort of saintly professional.
Fabregas...of the three I can recall the fewest examples of reasons he's a cnut...oh wait...just kidding...pizzagate. rat supreme. End of story .
Now, that doesn't mean i think Jose is handling the player situation perfectly right now. In fact I disagree with a lot of it, with the exception of calling out some of these players that I'm sick and tired of seeing lacking the heart and desire our fans deserve.
Clue: Read Jose's leaks (i.e. Duncan Castles' articles).Chelsea would have been done if Mourinho was backed and got rid off Hazard and Costa. The title with Conte wouldn't have happened at all and all Chelsea fans would take back Costa instantly.
Besides Pogba didn't even do what the likes of Hazard did at Chelsea. He may have lost possession couple of times but he wasn't the worst player on the pitch today. Why the different treatment to different players, why isn't Matic a virus when he has been directly respobsible for us conceding a goal and for our pathetic results the last few games. Why is Pogba, Martial and Shaw's commitment constantly get questioned when Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez get away with murder
It's because people like you try to make everything about racism that when actual racism happens it does not get the support it should get."A player like Pogba" meaning what? A black player who won't shut up and obey like you want him to?