Stars and Reserves Draft R1: GodShaveTheQueen vs Gio - Finished 9 : 11

Who will win this match based on all the players at their peaks?


  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

harms

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Isn't Sivori considered better header of the ball than Hidegkuti? Think he wad a good leap on him.
Probably. He was quite good for his size, but I wouldn’t bet on him against Schulz and Rosato.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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To be honest I haven't seen Hidegkuti being raved about his heading ability
I am not calling him an all time GOAT header of course, but then calling Dzajic's crossing not getting utilized or getting wasted is pushing it to dismissing his heading ability. For example, he scored one in the WC semifinal in 1954 against Uruguay.

Not every team with wingers needs to have a Kocsis level header of the ball.
 

Physiocrat

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Oh well...

Congratulations @Gio
I was really busy this morning so didn't get chance to look at the thread properly. Still not sure who I'd go with. I'd probably call a draw. With respect to formation graphic I think for more unusual systems providing multiple images showing the team in various stages of play could help. I did that in the offensive phase in my last game. Not sure how well it went down as no-one commented on them but I felt it was a very clear way of showing how I intended to play. Putting one in the defensive phase could have helped communicate your setup better.
 

harms

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I disagree there. Having passengers in midfield is one of the biggest issue we had in recent years for United as well. Not enough energy, effort put in makes no difference even if you are behind the ball.

Lazy #10 make literally no impact in modern game, and one of the very reason ( even much better in that regard to Rivera, especially when we consider ground covered) players like Ozil get a lot of stick in the defensive phase and are seen as liability when trying to get control in midfield.

You don't always transition with long ball played out from the back, and usually having 6 players behind the ball is enough when you are in possession if you are more attacking side.
I think you're underrating Rivera's impact here. Here are his numbers from CWC final in 1968.

13 interceptions (a lot of attacks were started by long balls, which are easy to intercept, so the number is a little boosted)
Tackles (attempted/succeeded) 9/5
2 Blocks

He even tracked helped out his right back a few times by tracking the runners from midfield.


He is no Litmanen — or even Suarez for that matter (easier to compare since the eras overlap), but he wasn't a passenger and he definitely was involved in the midfield battle.
 

Enigma_87

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I think you're underrating Rivera's impact here. Here are his numbers from CWC final in 1968.

13 interceptions (a lot of attacks were started by long balls, which are easy to intercept, so the number is a little boosted)
Tackles (attempted/succeeded) 9/5
2 Blocks

He even tracked helped out his right back a few times by tracking the runners from midfield.


He is no Litmanen — or even Suarez for that matter (easier to compare since the eras overlap), but he wasn't a passenger and he definitely was involved in the midfield battle.
Watched the highlights there was a lot of instances where he loses a 50:50 challenge or the ball and gently hops back. Most of the interceptions are when the ball hit his zone(where he was positioned) and Hamburger were playing a lot of stray passes and generally there was a lot of misplaced passes from both sides.

There are some more videos knocking about:


and how many times he loses the ball and doesn't really put a shift in.

Depends on what you are really expecting, but it's natural to try to tackle in your zone or try to cover someone into a 5-10 yards of space, and not really much different to an attacker who would track back and help the midfield which was my point during the game.

The opposition also counts and against a more dynamic midfield he won't have the same stats unless his team gains control of the game and the opposition rely on long balls like Hamburger one.

From all videos I don't see him covering a bit perimeter off the ball, whilst leaving holes in midfield when he forays forward and attacks the box. He didn't have the stamina to constantly help the midfield, nor the physicality to win challenges and get the ball back.

Riquelme was also attacking the ball when it was in the zone or there was a long pass towards him and only occasionally made a run to help the midfield. Rivera is better in that sense but in all time sense and considering the shift the rest of the midfielders are likely to put in or players like Hidegkuti and Sivori he's still a passenger in a game like this to me.
 

Jim Beam

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First choices at Milan were Gullit, Van Basten, Papin + the great Rijkaard. Us from balkan, sometimes main roles sometimes just passengers. Savicevic was not alright with it and he often told me: "Boban, my friend...this guys are shit and us....where are we?"
One day he sits next to me in the locker room without saying anything so i asked, "Whats up?" he told me "dont ask" and when i went out to train he was running circles as slowest as possible.
Capello gathered all the players but Dejo just ran past us, dead cold like there is nobody there. Soon after that Capello disbanded the group and asked me whats happening with Dejo, i said he is probably injured or something. Then he asked Dejo to join us but he didnt give a feck and just continued to ran circles in protest, the whole thing was a circus. After i finally dragged Savicevic to Capello and how Dejo only knew to say Ciao in italian i had to translate.
Discussion was started with Savicevic:
"Tell him he is a donkey and he doesnt understand shit. And that im not injured and that he wont tell me what to do. He can tell his ugly wife what to do but not me"
Boban translated: "He doesnt feel good..."
Capello screamed that he knows Dejo is cursing him and in the same time Dejo was screaming that he translates word for word. As those two screamed i went with my business. Soon Dejo leaved as well and Capello moved training to another pitch.
Everyone was in shock except me as i witnessed similar situation few years earlier when he did similar stuff to Ivica Osim - "either i play or im leaving..."
:lol::lol:
 

Ecstatic

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Oh well...

Congratulations @Gio
Great efforts.

Always more challenging to defend an unorthodox starting 11 with 2 false 9 in a certain sense. A refreshing strategy which is appreciated.

Ok, you don't have a pure striker but if I look at the stats of your front 4, the goal per game ratio should be impressive.

I didn't overthink this time but was expecting more discussions/infos/stories about other player from both sides.