Define full control
What next for Mourinho?
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Turnover of players, discipline, communications(both internal and external), personnel(non-playing staff, scouts, etc)
From the moment Mourinho was publicly wondering why the club had not signed Perisic it was clear there was a divide between him and the upper echelons of the club. The impression i get from the outside(so,i could very well be wrong) is that there was a lot of distance between the club's decision makers(i.e. Woodward) and what happened on the training pitch
Mourinho was given the same amount of control that Fergie had, more or less full control over everything at the club. He told the club which players he want to sign and the players he didnt need, the club (Woodward) then did his best to accommodate the manager.
Clear there was a divide because we didn't sign Perisic ? We signed the vast majority of players he wanted that summer, Lindeloef, Lukaku and Matic. Yet it's supposed to be a massive divide because we failed to get one player due to Inter asking for an insane fee and Martial on loan ? There was nothing indicating a divide that summer, the club was happy to do what it could to get the players Mourinho wanted, but there's a limit to what is acceptable. The summer of 2018 is another story.
If you're putting the manager in charge of your football operations, than the only limitations you put on him should be financial. Otherwise, you're undermining his own role. If Mourinho is in charge of football operations and he believes the club should sign Perisic, then the club should sign Perisic unless they don't have the money for it. Refusing implies a lack of trust on the gaffer
Holy shit, I just read a Guardian article by Castles from 2007 that was about Mourinho dropping Shevchenko. This was an interesting quote:
"Back me with signings, or sack me"
The article also implies Mourinho was denied funds to buy a CB to cover for Terry's injury.
"Back me with signings, or sack me"
The article also implies Mourinho was denied funds to buy a CB to cover for Terry's injury.
Fergie didn't get absolutely everything he wanted either. It's in his book
That period was beginning of the end for him. Was surprised he only got to September 2007 though. Chelsea still go to CL final, 2nd in premier league and League cup finallists with Avram Grant so gives you indication of how good their squad was in those days. Interested how things would've panned out if Mourinho had stayed that season.Holy shit, I just read a Guardian article by Castles from 2007 that was about Mourinho dropping Shevchenko. This was an interesting quote:
"Back me with signings, or sack me"
The article also implies Mourinho was denied funds to buy a CB to cover for Terry's injury.
All this talk of signings has jogged something in my memory. Was reading one of the books on his time at Real Madrid (author was pretty anti Mourinho) and he claimed sometime in his 3 years there he was desperate to sign Hugo Almeida as centre forward for Real Madrid.
I saw the guy play lots for Portugal and he was at best a europa level striker so Madrid probably thought he'd lost it from that moment if it was a true claim.
Yeah Man. United lost out on likes of Kluivert and Batistuta in late 90s. Ended up with Dwight Yorke who wasn't a bad plan B in the end.
Every club has financial limits, has nothing to do with lack of trust. Did City lack trust in Guardiola when they refused to pay the insane wages Sanchez wanted, or the fee for Fred ? Did United lack trust in Ferguson when we didn't want to pay the agent fees for Hazard ? Klopp didn't even initially want Salah, but the club insisted on him
Yep the Perisic thing is overblown because it gave Jose a convenient excuse. Before that season he emphasised he was satisfied and the board would have no complaints from him about the summer business.
The signs have always been thereHoly shit, I just read a Guardian article by Castles from 2007 that was about Mourinho dropping Shevchenko. This was an interesting quote:
"Back me with signings, or sack me"
The article also implies Mourinho was denied funds to buy a CB to cover for Terry's injury.
No surprises. There's still some delusion and even traces of hope among his fans that he'll get a top job and stick it to us. He was still burning bridges when he mocked Juve fans when we beat them. There aren't many clubs he's a candidate for
Well. We cant change the fact can we?
Why not just enjoy it instead of treating it as some kind if curse that we won or some kind of blasphemy for daring to compete in it. Nobody claims its better than winning the cl but it sure does better than not winning anything.
Edit: and probably not. Not many mentioned arsenal were a champion league runner up all this years but you hear alot about our completing the set, heck not many here mentioned that painful 2 finals we lost to the best team in the world other than we deserve to lose.
Guardiola isn't in charge of all football operations at city. Likewise Klopp. But more importantly, Giardiola and Klopp were on the same page with their bosses. Same with Ferguson with Hazard.
Every club has financial limits, has nothing to do with lack of trust. Did City lack trust in Guardiola when they refused to pay the insane wages Sanchez wanted, or the fee for Fred ? Did United lack trust in Ferguson when we didn't want to pay the agent fees for Hazard ? Klopp didn't even initially want Salah, but the club insisted on him
Did you not have the funds for Perisic, or was it an issue of value for money? I was under the impression it was the latter.
I mean sure, i agree with you, paying that for Perisic and especially potentially losing Martial was dumb. But that's what the guy who seemingly put in charge of your football operations wanted to do. And then he was overruled, thus proving he wasn't truly in charge
Couldn't have put it any better. Glad we don't have to listen to his bullshit every week- it was getting very draining.
Amazing post bro. What is happening at United must be quite embarrassing for Mourinho. For a much younger less experienced coach to take over and accomplish what he failed to do in 2 years with the same exact players is not a good look. His last option is to resort to hinting at some non-existent behind the scene issues as mitigation. Pogba was brilliant for 3 yrs in juventus as well as the World Cup and is now thriving with OGS yet we are supposed to believe he didn’t want to play or had disciplinary issues that prevented he and the team from functioning.
For that to be true, we would have to believe Rashford, Matic, Herrera(who was criminally underused) had disciplinary issues holding them back as well.
Doesn't have to be in charge of all football operations in order for it to comparable. Guardiola wanted Sanchez, when that failed he wanted Mahrez, neither were signed in that transfer window because the club didn't want to pay the required amounts, in the end he got Mahrez in the summer window. Klopp wanted Brandt, but was convinced to go for Salah instead.
You're constructing an absurd argument where it's either 0 or 100, not backed or backed, nothing between. We missed out countless players under Ferguson. Robben, Ronaldinho, Essien, Hazard, Fernando Torres when he was at Atletico. It's the nature of the game, getting every player you identify is close to impossible, you get on with what you have and do your best.
The club didn't overrule Mourinho on Perisic, Woodward tried to negotiate a deal but ultimately failed due to Inter asking too much. It's not like Woodward saw the name Perisic and instantly told Mourinho to go feck himself. We spent close to £380mill on transfer fees under Mourinho, not to mention the swap with Arsenal for Sanchez + the free transfer of Ibrahimovic, in a period where our wages have gone up a lot, Mourinho was heavily backed at the club
It’s not a curse, but at the same time I couldn’t view it as some stunning achievement by Mourinho when we finished sixth that season, and went very close to being knocked out of the competition before the final.
All it got from me was a sigh of relief that we were back in the champions league, but I hate how it’s used as some kind of great victory of Mourinho’s when we weren’t particularly spectacular at any point in the campaign, and finished sixth in the league.
He almost got them relegate too....
Whatever. Just not anywhere near United is fine for me. This man, who've spent insane amount of money (over 400m) in just 2 and half years here, resulting with such declining/low level of performances on the pitch, very very bad results in his 3rd year, killing all the joy in the game, unsettling key players in dressing room... we all have had enough of him.
It is truly unbelievable, and must be hilarious to watch for our opposition fans!
Absolutely right. It must be quite unprecedented in football that fecking second place is being celebrated as some kind of special achievement. It makes a fecking mockery of everything this club stands proud for.
It's not an achievement, it's celebrating failure, for finishing behind our biggest local rival. It makes me sick in the mouth just thinking about it being celebrated as an achievement.
FFS
Watching Jose’s recent appearance on TV made me sick to the stomach. He’s genuinely lost the plot and ego has utterly consumed him.
Losing the United job hasn’t made an iota of difference to his general mindset and he’s never going to win another CL again with that abrasive attitude he persists with.
As much as I compare him with Trump - even the orange buffoon has moments where he comes up for air and can make us laugh but this guy is insanely bitter and just dour these days - compared to his early days at Chelsea.
All I can say is thank feck he’s not our problem anymore.
Losing the United job hasn’t made an iota of difference to his general mindset and he’s never going to win another CL again with that abrasive attitude he persists with.
As much as I compare him with Trump - even the orange buffoon has moments where he comes up for air and can make us laugh but this guy is insanely bitter and just dour these days - compared to his early days at Chelsea.
All I can say is thank feck he’s not our problem anymore.
Perisic had an offer accepted for him by Inter. But he chose to continue playing for Spaletti than come here and play for Dourface
This is on record.Can you please quote a source for this?Perisic had an offer accepted for him by Inter. But he chose to continue playing for Spaletti than come here and play for Dourface
Even Di Marzio said that Inter wanted over 50 mil euros for Perisic. And we were only willing to go up to 30. We made one bid and never made another one.
You remember
Mourinho had full control for the most part. That he didnt earn the trust of everyone and eventually his decisions started being questioned at the fag end is an indictment of his performances and ideas.
He's extremely deluded and seemingly isn't learning the lessons he should from the passing of time and the change that it brings along. I find it hard to be affected by his comments due to the overwhelming relief at the fact that he's no longer our manager.
Yaay!
The Europa League / UEFA Cup was the only trophy we had never won so I think it had a bit more significance. We all know the League Cup and Europa League are not the priority trophies.
Did I watch the game and celebrate when we won? Of course and I tell you what winning 3 trophies is better than watching your team lose in a bigger final. Been there and done that with Barcelona twice.
You are missing the point. It's not about failing to sign a player, it's how. If Mourinho and Woodward agreed that perisic was too expensive, there would have been no issue. If the club simply didn't have the funds, there would have been no issue. But that wasn't the case. Mourinho wanted him, even at inter's asking price, the funds were there, and he Woodward overruled him.
You keep using guardiola and klopp as examples but they don't work since they're not in charge in the same way. They they were never given the kind of power and control United gives to managers.
I think it's best for us to put negative things into box and take them to the tip.
Mourin-who?
Mourin-who?
The very purpose of executives at football clubs is to draw a line regarding transfer fees. It isn’t undermining the manager; moreso evaluating the economical sense of said decisions. Perisic wasn’t deemed to be a buy-at-all-costs player. I’d agree with that logic, especially given the age of the player.
A much sought after Director of Football (who are very often ex-bankers themselves) would reach similar conclusions.
But again, that's the issue. Perisic wasn't deemed a buy-at-all-costs player by Woodward. But did the guy Woodward put in charge of running the football operations at the club agree with that view? This is all i'm talking about here. There was a divide between Mourinho -the guy who seemingly put in charge of *all* football operations, and then left to his own devices in many ways- and the club -who had reservations about his judgement.
That isn't true.
IIRC he did ask for Hugo Almeida, but more as a provocation. He didn't actually want him, he wanted a big guy up top, something different from Benzema and Higuain(and he wasn't particularly satisfied with those two. Too inconsistent)
It was top sarcasm at best, believe me. He wouldn't even use him if that was true. And that guy who I am thinking who wrote those things... well he clearly added some creative facts to suit his narrative.
I like him again.
Tweet
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♬ José's a liar, virus claims are falsified.
José's been fired, Ed's decision's justified.
Ole's inspired...
Na na na na na naa na, na naa na, na naa na
Na na na na na naa na, na naa na, na naa na
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José's been fired, Ed's decision's justified.
Ole's inspired...
Na na na na na naa na, na naa na, na naa na
Na na na na na naa na, na naa na, na naa na
♬
When Mourinho first came, he came with the promise to adapt to the club, think long-term and use the young players. Everything was fine initially for the first year. He was backed to the hilt, we got everyone he asked for. We enjoyed moderate success.
In the summer after, something changed. The fact that Mourinho was willing to swap Martial for Perisic would have alarmed Woodward. He was willing to swap our crown jewel of a young forward for some journeyman old winger. It was a crazy price that Inter wanted too. I don't call that overruling. More like common sense.
I think from then on, Mourinho quite rightly started being questioned by the board.
Everyone knows that Mourinho only cares about short-term success. He wouldn't have cared about the damage he caused the club in the long-term. He would be onto his next club anyway. Chelsea are the perfect case in point.
I'm glad that Woodward and the board had the ability to realise this and if it's true that Woodward overruled him, then great. Woodward is the true MVP.
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He was never put in charge of all footballing operations. He was put in a position more powerful than most managers and more than most clubs would give him, but anything relating to finances (which transfers obviously do) still had to go through the board, Woodward, or whoever Woodward put in position to do so (I keep forgetting his name, but there is a guy talked about occasionally who supposedly fills that role for us). No manager, not even Fergie or Wenger, has full control to the extent that they over-ride the financial sector. They can make their arguments to the people making the final decision to try to get them to increase how much they are willing to offer, but ultimately they rightfully aren't in 100% control of it.
From everything we saw it seems we attempted to buy him the players he did want bought, but a number of them (Perisic, Willian, and the defenders he was targeting) simply ended up costing more than what our board were willing to spend on them. And from the outside looking in, the board seemed to be correct in every single instance. Every one of those players would have cost us far more than what they are really worth. Perisic and Maguire are probably the only two who were remotely close to a fair valuation (and even they would have cost quite a bit too much); everyone else was ridiculously overpriced.
The only thing Woodward seemed to fully overrule Mourinho on was him being willing to sell Martial and/or Pogba, or include them in a swap deal with one of those players he wanted. Once again, something I'm sure we can all agree was the best thing for the club to do.