Earliest ever moan about no signings?!
What truly worries me about Manchester United
- Thread starter devilish
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Err we got rid of Fellaini. That was great business and a intent to where we want to go. I am sure there is a lot of things going on behind the scenes. We are hardly going to rush it given what has happened in the last year or so with Sanchez and Jose renewing his contract in Jan.
Paul Mitchell.
I'd been wondering what was happening with that, if anything. It's all gone quiet (which, I know, doesn't mean nothing is happening behind the scenes).
After last summer window I'm not sure about the general transfer strategy either. Club didn't even manage to make clear out of pointless players like Darmian.
What I'm 100% sure is that City, Chelsea, or even Pool won't wait for United with strengthening their formations... keep the club in that limbo for one more year and Ole will be next candidate for a sack.
What I'm 100% sure is that City, Chelsea, or even Pool won't wait for United with strengthening their formations... keep the club in that limbo for one more year and Ole will be next candidate for a sack.
Ever thought that United just try and keep things a bit more 'in house' than Madrid?
Do you think United wait until summer then then go 'oh lets see whos's around this summer' - targets are planned way in advance.
That’s no fun what will people complain about?
Caf loves a bit of negativity.
Feyenoord's director recently said something apt; If no one leaks what we're doing to the press, the people think we're not doing anything at all.
Real concerns:
- Glazer ownership: years of underinvestment and a clear shift in transfer approach to trying to sign young players in hope for cut price options/resale. As well as being outspent by relegation teams.
- Power hungry incompetent CEO: Any DOF will just be a front for Woodward. The Glazers lack of interest means he will handle the footballing side for as long as he wants.
- Fans attitude to the academy: It has to be said our fans have grown even more obsessed with the academy since Ole came in. We have fans not wanting improvements because it might block Laird or Chongs route to the first team. These fans need to take a look and see where McNair, Blackett, Borthwich Jackson, Wilson and Gribbin are. Playing a few games for the first team doesn't make you United standard.
- The level of dross/average players/inconsistent players: If we are being real Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Young, Darmian, Valencia, McTominay, Herrera, Lingard and Rashford would never get into our 08 team. That is the level we need to aim for. We have fans believing Young is good enough to be a back up fullback next season. In reality one injury to Shaw/Dalot would mean a 34 year old Young as our fullback. Unacceptable. Players like Rashford need world class players around him for him to learn from, to take pressure of him but to also be a leader and make him learn from his mistakes.
- Rivals being better prepared: We need to be honest. If Ole wants the job he wont pose a team with 5 new players in it to Woodward. It probably had 3 signings max with academy players in it as his transfer wishlist. The reality is we need an overhaul. Teams like City/Liverpool have the squad ready, they can focus on the one/two additions to push for the CL. Whereas United have massive gaps in the team with no real recruitment strategy in place to be able to devise a long term starting 11.
What I cant understand is they restructured the scouting at great expense that we have one of if not the biggest scouting systems out there, but never seem to sign any real quality. This summer will be the defining one. We will either be spending big and maybe have identified some real gems or a couple of top players or we will spend poorly again. If we spend poorly then there really is something up the club aint telling us.
What makes you think that Woodward makes the footballing decisions? The evidence suggests the manager gives him a list of choices for each position and he negotiates for those targets. Obviously h3 has the final say on the finances involved but that would remain the case with or without a DoF.
So rather than pick a manager who plays the way that we as a club are looking for and giving him the resources and longevity to instigate a long term plan. We're going to give someone with less accountability that responsibility?
Logic would suggest that we'd be in the exact same position. If we've picked Moyes, Van Gael and Mourinho whose styles are completely at odds with what the fans believe should be ours... Why do we suddenly think the appointment of a DoF would be so perfect?
Surely if we are going to make a fantastic appointment who will implement the style of play we want to see; sign the kind of players we want to see signed and ensure the players we sign fit in with the system and tactics employed... The obvious appointment would be a manager that has a history of playing attacking football with a good record in the transfer market? Rather than a DoF whereby it's a toss of a coin whether the successes are his or the manager of his club at the time.
I think you've missed a bit. The point is that a dof would never have picked any of those mangers. And since we know know woody won't be getting sacked anytime soon the dof if the next best thing. He/she will pick the managers that fit our club instead of fit with whatever wall woody has been throwing shit against for the past 6 years.
Look what happened when saf left. We got moyes who threw out a title winning backroom staff. That will not be allowed to happen with dof. So let's say ole stays with us for 26 years, his tenure a continuation of saf era. When it comes time to step down there will be a foundation in place that the next guy who comes in will pick up were ole left off. Much the same way that other clubs fanny about with managers but the club infrastructure is solid and the only thing that really chances is the coaching. We fell hard when saf left, barca did just fine after pep left. They also choose pep over Jose because he fit what the club was about. They didn't care that Jose was a serial winner or that he was a name. They went with the guy that they knew would continue the style of football they wanted. That's not us. That's definitely not woody. A dof won't fix every problem, but it will fix a fair few and most importantly it will stop what's happen in the past 6 years happening again.
scouting potential talent is a worry. Man Utd seldom go for superstars. This club historically taps into talents early on and made them stars. This trend somehow is lost since last decade. So if we want to compete then spend millions on established players or go back to our roots. Worry started compounding when we spent millions on players recently without getting much returns on the investment.
Let's face it. If 5 years ago a bright unknown brilliant dof was appointed and he choose the fresh from espanyol pochetinno instead of mourinho or louis van gaal and choose not buy bastian schweinsteiger and di maria he will be deemed an idiot.
I share your concerns, but one small correction. We have taken the option to extend Pereira's contract by an year till 2020 summer
Inter is getting Godin, Bayern are getting Pavard....All clubs who are signing players now despite not needing as many players as we need and do not have to work on a ridiculous transfer deadline as we doExactly
Barca getting De Jong, Madrid getting Milito (?) and Juve getting Ramsey let's be honest is a very small sample of what will be the total transfer business done over the summer
Let's wait till the window closes before we worry rather than worry about it before it's even opened
PS that was one point out of many all of which suggest 1 thing ie the same thing the likes of LVG, Mou, Gaz, Scholes, Moyes and many others had already suggested there's something very wrong in our admin team. So the choice here is simple. We either keep putting the blame solely to the manager or else we sort that out.
None of those players were what we needed or absolutely must-haves at all to be moaning about us not having signed anyone, especially when we don't know the first thing about what is actually going on behind the scenes but just want to have a whinge. People need to decide what they want to remain upset about, the fact that we don't sign smart or that we are seemingly not signing the players others are signing up just for optics and then complaining ala Sanchez when they aren't what we require or need.
Real Madrid got Militao and Rodrygo
Barca got De Jong and Emerson
Bayern got Pavard
Chelsea got Pulisic
Juve got Ramsey
These are just some clubs that are already better situated than us making steps for next year. I'm sure the likes of Zorc at BVB, Paratici at Juve, Michael Edwards at Liverpool, Txiki at City etc are having deep discussions with their respective coaches on how the squad is going to look next year, discussing the type of player profile they need to target, identify those players, sound their agents out etc. Work has began in earnest for the next season.
For example the Ronaldo transaction was agreed in principle around Feb/March between Juve and Cristiano. Getting Real to the table was the easy part, after the carefully choreographed interviews that Ronaldo was giving after the CL final, insistence on getting the club to pay his taxes, which annoyed Flo and forced him to get rid.
Meanwhile Woody come the summer will be 10 steps behind, probably still wrestling with going for Ole or Poch.
It's a joke.
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I think the likes of militao, pavard, pulisic and de Jong would have strengthened us significantly. They are top young talent with the hunger to win not like bastian or sanchez who came here for their last big pay check
I share all your misgivings. Of course some will look at it as moaning and typical caf behaviour, but your points are valid. However, things may yet turn out well on the fronts you've mentioned.
One reason I see for a DoF not being announced yet could be that our target has contractual obligations for the summer at their present club, and announcing earlier would hurt the process. Or perhaps Woody is still in the process of looking for the right person - after all, it's only been 3 months since Mourinho was sacked. If it's the case of us not looking at all (as will be evident by June/July) we're in trouble for the next few seasons because it would either mean that no-footballing people are still making footballing decisions, or that Ole is being given the same responsibility that two top class managers before him have failed at and complained about.
I don't think we can make a Ramsey/de Jong signing without announcing Ole for next season, or without being sure of whether or not we're in the CL. And while Ole looks like the obvious choice, I think the people in charge don't want to change the mood by adding pressure to his job or taking away the added motivation from him for the rest of the season. It's a double edged sword, and I think we'll have to wait for a season or two till we are in a position to announce early signings. The same applies to contract negotiations. I do agree that we're lagging behind our rivals by not being in a position to negotiate earlier.
What is certain is that we need to make the transition from a business oriented entity to a footballing one, and an efficient one at that. We need to stop floundering in the transfer market season after season. We need to start having a cohesive philosophy in the signings we make and in the football we play. And we need to make that transition as soon as possible, otherwise we're doomed to continue watching our closest rivals strengthen and battle it out for the league and CL for another season or two.
Most of the clubs are sure of either who their manager is for the next season, or of CL football, if not both (Chelsea are the only exception; Pulisic is having a poor season and may turn out to be a gamble). For this season at least, the lack of an official manager for next season and guarantees of CL might be hampering us as much as the lack of a DoF.
This is exactly what we say every transfer window and it ends up being wrong. In terms of making signings We always seem to drag our heels in transfer season and as far as the “elite” clubs go nobody handles transfers as bad as we do.
I don't necessarily agree with this.
Out of the examples I just mentioned, Real just got their coach confirmed on Tuesday (third coach this season I may add). de Jong is not going to Barca for Valverde. Pavard is not going to Bayern for Kovać who may or may not be there next year. Ignoring Chelsea, Allegri's position is unclear at Juve also. Rumors are that he wanted to resign mid season, and chances are that his contract will be terminated at the end of the season. Yet Juve signed Ramsey and probably have made inroads on Chiesa, Tonali, Milenkovic and Zaniolo already. So this notion that you need a manager in place to make signings is just a fallacy.
Good the few clubs have finalized the deals, good for them which shows they have started their work for next season.
But that doesn't mean there is nothing happening in the back ground. Like Gill said, transfer/scouring discussion happens all year but the signings are made in the official period. No one even knows what is going on behind the scenes.
We also signed Memphis in May, before the close of the season. I don't think it made any positive impact. Right now there are few issues to be addressed. We haven't signed a manager, it might be Ole (99% it's him) or maybe someone else.
For me the biggest problem is what exactly is the plan for recruitment. Whether it's just one more admin added or proper DoF. If so we should complete that asap so that he can talk to manager/coach to understand what is needed for next season.
Not signing players in March, April is nothing. It's not even a issue.
But that doesn't mean there is nothing happening in the back ground. Like Gill said, transfer/scouring discussion happens all year but the signings are made in the official period. No one even knows what is going on behind the scenes.
We also signed Memphis in May, before the close of the season. I don't think it made any positive impact. Right now there are few issues to be addressed. We haven't signed a manager, it might be Ole (99% it's him) or maybe someone else.
For me the biggest problem is what exactly is the plan for recruitment. Whether it's just one more admin added or proper DoF. If so we should complete that asap so that he can talk to manager/coach to understand what is needed for next season.
Not signing players in March, April is nothing. It's not even a issue.
Real, Barca, Bayern and Juve can all promise CL for the next five seasons. Can we?
Like I said, Chelsea are the only exception, and it shows in the gamble of their signing. It is not inconceivable that they knew of the incoming transfer ban as well.
Agreed.
Before i write anything i must say that i know that this is overreaction but this is just how i feel now. This loss against Wolves really was huge slap to my optimism. I can't remember when some game destroyed my mood like that game.
My biggest concern is the fact that this is it. This is our squad for future. We signed new contracts with nearly every our player who should be replaced. Lingard, Smalling, Jones, Young, Mctominay are players who are only solid at best and imo, should be replaced. But they will stay here. On top of that we have young(ish) players like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Dalot and Perreira whos quality is questionable. Yes, they are very good players, some of them with huge potential and i loved them especially Martial who is my favourite player, but are they really that good as we all think? Are they really tier A players? Will they ever be that?
There will be no some big rebuilding next season. People must forget that. We will buy 2 or 3 players but that is it. This is our squad for next season. Is that good enough for attack on PL? Is Ole good enough?
Sorry for pesimism but i am in that mood now, Wolves defeat and City's strength just killed my optimism for future. Plus when i see how far we are from other giants like Barca, Real or Juve.....
To be clear here. I think that this squad with few signings will have no problem to be in top four. We are not weaker than Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea. I even think that next season we will be stronger than them. But i am looking how far we are from having squad for winning PL and CL.
My biggest concern is the fact that this is it. This is our squad for future. We signed new contracts with nearly every our player who should be replaced. Lingard, Smalling, Jones, Young, Mctominay are players who are only solid at best and imo, should be replaced. But they will stay here. On top of that we have young(ish) players like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Dalot and Perreira whos quality is questionable. Yes, they are very good players, some of them with huge potential and i loved them especially Martial who is my favourite player, but are they really that good as we all think? Are they really tier A players? Will they ever be that?
There will be no some big rebuilding next season. People must forget that. We will buy 2 or 3 players but that is it. This is our squad for next season. Is that good enough for attack on PL? Is Ole good enough?
Sorry for pesimism but i am in that mood now, Wolves defeat and City's strength just killed my optimism for future. Plus when i see how far we are from other giants like Barca, Real or Juve.....
To be clear here. I think that this squad with few signings will have no problem to be in top four. We are not weaker than Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea. I even think that next season we will be stronger than them. But i am looking how far we are from having squad for winning PL and CL.
it's better to focus on who we can and are interested in signing rather than go out and attempt to sign anyone others are signing in just because they are doing so. We aren't going to go around stockpiling every promising young player who might have caught the eye of top clubs in Europe and quite rightly. In hindsight these same muppets do an about-face and claim that we are signing the wrong players later on and need to go young.
I don't agree often with him but @Wumminator nailed it. If there are no rumours around that doesn't mean we're not making progress on transfers and DOF thing. Then again recruiting a DOF it we'll even do that cause I doubt Ed will help with transfers. As @roonster09 said we need a proper plan and an idea who are we buying and we shouldn't wait for the confirmation who our manager for the next season will be.. Unfortunately I serously doubt Ed will do what is needed, he won't hire a DOF and will chase some unattainable superstars.
We can all hate Mou, but before he failed this season, he was crying about a low budget. Us fans, shouldn't ignore this, just because he likes a good moan. We're simply not spending enough compared to our size.
We are yet to know if there's a bigger plan laid out with Ed handling what he's good at, and a DOF handling what he'd be good at: the footballing plan / managing a scouting network.
But the silence from the club on where we want to go and decisions, makes all of us fans guessing. We never hear shit from Woodward on his decisions or get any background-knowledge, and he's the one responsible for all this. I'm not sure this is good leadership.
We are yet to know if there's a bigger plan laid out with Ed handling what he's good at, and a DOF handling what he'd be good at: the footballing plan / managing a scouting network.
But the silence from the club on where we want to go and decisions, makes all of us fans guessing. We never hear shit from Woodward on his decisions or get any background-knowledge, and he's the one responsible for all this. I'm not sure this is good leadership.
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I have a sneaky feeling that the DoF and Solskjaer will be announced together.
We spent shit loads of money under Jose. He should be the last person to moan about spending.
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Apart from commercially we've been a very poorly run club for the last 5 years, a glorified accountant making the big football calls has been nothing short of comical.
That we may not win another major title for the foreseeable future...?
Giving Ole carte blanche to spend £200m without challenge is what is strange and a DoF has nothing to do with marginalising Woodward.
The club needs a consistent way of playing and a profile of player that it wants (both skillset and mentality) irrespective of who the manager is. In conjunction with the manager, the scouting department and Woodward, the DoF should identify those players so they can be acquired and retained in as cost effective a way as possible.
Ole came in, found a front 6 that worked really well playing "the United way". But when he had to replace any of the front 3, he only had players who couldn't play that style. He wanted to play a high energy style in midfield and his first reserve was Fellaini.
The squad rebuild has been an absolute shambles with each manager spending shed loads on their preferred players and the next manager wanting to dump the previous manager's players. It has cost the club an absolute fortune.
Ole should have input but the days of a manager needing to sign "his players" should be long gone when those managers don't last 3 years. The players should fit the style of football the club wants to play and have the right mentality to play for United.
That is what a Director of Football is for.
That's football and it's fans for you though.
If the club took any of this to heart, it'd be in huge trouble.
Fans like to vent, it's no different at any club. Last week after Southampton, people were told that 'this is the place to come to watch football,' etc, now we're crap after one tired looking performance.
If only football like life was a continual upwards curve eh?
The majority of players at smaller clubs would want to join us UNLESS someone more attractive approaches them. Which explains why we need to be efficient and effective on the transfer market to make sure we sign the players quickly before the big fish start circling around the players we need. That had always been the case with United who were never the top dogs in Europe. Its more relevant now that we're falling down the pecking order.
Transfers are just one of the many signs that reveal that our administration team is not good enough. We take ages to persuade our top players to sign a contract, we struggle to get rid of the deadwood, we struggle to buy the players we need, we overspend both in terms of fees and salaries + managers tend to take our admin team for a ride by persuading them to buy either their mates (Fellaini and Bastian for example) or old players whose searching for a final paycheck who are usually not up for grabs (Valdes or Sanchez for example).
Our system is not fit for purpose something everyone agrees upon from our former managers right to our legends in the media. That's the single issue on which Moyes, LVG, Mou, Scholes and Gaz seem to be in agreement on. So honestly I cant understand the outrage caused by my post
I don't the issue here is the transfer/salary budget. We do spend money, which tend to be more then the average top club. I think the main issue here is how the money is spent. To use a non football analogy one can spent 100m on a Lada. That doesn't make it a Ferrari or a Bentley.
Ed Woodward acknowledged that we need a change in club structure and major structural changes to how the club operates. We finally overhauled the structure of United in 2016 from the academy to scouting network, to staffs, etc and planning for expansion of new office building, new training ground with eight full-size pitches added to Carrington for women and youth so all the various women/academy levels can be situated under one site.
Yeah, United need DOF/Technical, but is it is really urgent? No. Perhaps Roma is an example of what can go wrong with having DoF in place, they sacked Monchi. PSG fans complained about Antero Henrique and they want to get rid of him. Sven Mislintat was at Arsenal for 14 months and left them, Arsenal still searches for DoF again. DOF is not the saviour of the club who can get the club to become the best club in the world, it is exactly the same as a manager, they both can fail or end up becoming successful at the club. Besides, there's no such as longevity DoF.
We have no reason to rush the appointment of DOF, just wait for right DoF, that's important things.
As I said Ed Woodward acknowledged that we need a change to how the club operates, it has to start from scratch like in youth, scouting work, negotiation, first coaches team, staffs, and the board, etc.
Yeah, United need DOF/Technical, but is it is really urgent? No. Perhaps Roma is an example of what can go wrong with having DoF in place, they sacked Monchi. PSG fans complained about Antero Henrique and they want to get rid of him. Sven Mislintat was at Arsenal for 14 months and left them, Arsenal still searches for DoF again. DOF is not the saviour of the club who can get the club to become the best club in the world, it is exactly the same as a manager, they both can fail or end up becoming successful at the club. Besides, there's no such as longevity DoF.
We have no reason to rush the appointment of DOF, just wait for right DoF, that's important things.
As I said Ed Woodward acknowledged that we need a change to how the club operates, it has to start from scratch like in youth, scouting work, negotiation, first coaches team, staffs, and the board, etc.
PS thanks those who corrected my title btw.