Right at this moment, what can Corbyn do? Does Teresa May look like she wants a consensus? Genuine question, am I missing some solution that he isn't taking?
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Should never have gone to the meeting in the first place. But then going and walking out casue he's seen Chukka looks a bit silly.
So he's a man of principle who doesn't put optics before all else? Bastard.
But bigger picture stuff, what can he do right now to appease those accusing him of lacking leadership and not being an effective opposition? Teresa May has drawn her battle lines and surely all he can do is give in, or refuse to give in? Giving in is not effective leadership or opposition, but refusing to give in is criticised as doing nothing.
Corbynistas seem to be the other side of the Trump supporter coin. He could shoot someone in public and they'd still support him.
It is a total freak of timing that we are lumbered with the worst and inept PM in my lifetime and an equally inept opposition leader. Now when we need leadership and direction the most we have zero. Corbyn is a fecking disaster.
He can openly back revoking article 50 and having a second referendum.
What would it change? The numbers have to move in the Tory party before that would do anything. Call an election, get a Labour or Labour/LD/SNP majority, then he needs to shit or get off the pot.
May could shoot someone in public and all you'd have to offer is "useless Corbyn would have missed"
In many ways I think he's the perfect labour labour at the moment. He won't get elected and probably the worst thing could happen to labour to get elected now, to clear up another Tory mess.
It would draw the battle lines. If the Tories block it, the next option is to start banging the general election drum. I reckon there are enough remainer conservatives for the peoplesVote to happen, not sure about revoking article 50. Nobody in parliament has the balls to say what they really think.
Don't underestimate the leave sentiment in Labour, both party and base. Obviously I think Jeremy should go gung ho behind remain, but Teresa May is literally destroying the country to save her party. Meanwhile all the criticism is on Corbyn for not splitting his party to offer up words in anticipation of an election. This the same election that not having it is the only thing the tories can agree on.
Edited to add: obviously if an election is called, Corbyn needs to roll the dice on a 2nd vote, but if he does that prematurely, the tories will pull together to avoid the election, force through brexit and hammer Labour with "will of the people". It's a sad reflection of politics that he has to time his support of a 2nd vote so carefully, but he does.
Corbyn and McDonnell are Leavers, why should you expect them to back anything that opposes that?
Any Labour supporters that want Labour to take up a Remain position should be campaigning for a Remain leadership.
Cheers for proving my point.
This is the essence of it, surely:
Barry Gardiner, the shadow secretary of state for international trade:
"It is not about the process it is about the substance. The people who came out of that meeting said ‘this meeting was simply for show, this meeting was simply so she could pretend that she was listening.’ She did not listen, she has not changed her red lines, she is not willing to compromise."
Barry Gardiner, the shadow secretary of state for international trade:
"It is not about the process it is about the substance. The people who came out of that meeting said ‘this meeting was simply for show, this meeting was simply so she could pretend that she was listening.’ She did not listen, she has not changed her red lines, she is not willing to compromise."
Corbyn wouldn't know any of that though, because he walked out of the meeting in a strop.
We have different ideas of proof but OK.
It's a thread about Corbyn, Theresa May has absolutely nothing to do with how Corbyn sycophants behave.
Gardiner also said 'Corbyn had already held a “20-minute, one-on-one” conversation with Theresa May and that the meeting the Labour leader left was actually with David Lidington.'
No, you're wrong Steve. In a political reality where the prime minister is making a mess of things daily, and sacrificing the country for party and personal ambition, the onus is on the leader of the opposition to jump through her hoops and pander to hypothetical situations where she, in some alternate reality, might have actually offered some sort of consensus in that meeting.
I think I've got the jist of it, I don't read the mail or sun so I can't be sure.
You sure? Caroline Lucas pointed this out before she even went in, it was a meeting to discuss a letter that May had already sent ffs.
Smaller parties only take these meetings as it increases their credibility to be seen as involved
If attending a meeting about the "full scale national crisis" (his words) is jumping through hoops then fine.
I don't read the Sun or the Mail either, don't think you have to to think Corbyn has offered an ineffective opposition.
They’re forced into defending him all the time. If he goes, there are very few obvious candidates from a purely socialist leaning to replace him. The centre right of the party would use his departure as an opportunity to regain control of the party. And if he was replaced by another left leaning leader, ‘Corbynista’s’ would be just as busy defending the new leader from the same attacks from the same media critics.
Is it so surprising that they’re so defensive then?
If I have misunderstood the situation, I can only apologise. Even so, I don't see how leaving a meeting because Chuka Ummuna is there is helpful in the current situation the country finds itself in. Presumably if he were really committed to building a country for the many and not the few, he would be committed to contradicting Theresa May at every opportunity?
Was it a meeting or a lecture? If you can provide any evidence that May went there with the intent of altering her position to reach a consensus I'll have to adjust my opinion.
What's the relevance? If he isn't at the meeting he can't do anything to change her opinion, can he?
If he doesn't at least try to suck all the carbon out of the air he can't do anything to stop global warming. What other pointless hypotheticals can we pin on him?
Yeah, here comes the usual condescending response of your typical Corbyn stan. Oh well, cheers for the chat.
I'm serious, let's make up other hypothetical shit to blame on him. It's vital to distract from real criticism of Teresa May at this time.
The way he behaved towards Chukka was absolutely spot on.
You may want to delete your "he could shoot someone" comment if you want to get precious about others being condescending by the way. It's a level of hypocrisy that will get you a job in the Theresa May's government if you're not careful.
You're presuming that I don't think Theresa May is worse. I do.
I'm not making up a hypothetical for the sake of making a hypothetical like you are; it's pertinent to the conversation. He has a responsibility to Labour Party membership, the Parliamentary Labour Party and his constituents to take these meetings seriously and attend them in such a crucial time for the country. If you can't acknowledge that and say 'Oh well he wasn't going to get what he wanted anyway' I'm going to tell you there's no way he was ever going to get what he wanted if he was never there to begin with.
As you like your hypothetical analogies, it's like saying Corbyn didn't sit an exam because he didn't think he'd pass the exam anyway. Not a chance he's going to if he doesn't try.
Look at my posts in the Brexit thread about Chuka being at the meeting, I don't think the spokesman of a group of MPs should be at a meeting for party leaders because they're not a party.
I'll remove it when you stop defending the indefensible.
You've not really misunderstood you've ignored explanations i think and then insulted because people disagree with you.
I'll criticise Corbyn when he performs these own goals but that's all it is optics. He had the meeting with May and it was pointless, you don't actually think a 20min meeting with David Lidington afterwards would resolve anything you're just using the opportunity to express your dislike of Corbyn.
Those who benefit from criticising Corbyn set the trigger and you lot jump up and down in outrage.
The only people who would defend Corbyn shoooting someone would be the Tories if he shot an unarmed Irishman.
There's no winner here, Smores. We all lose. Brexit is giving me serious stress and anxiety at this point, I'd happily vote for a Corbyn government if he could guarantee that he would cancel Brexit but so far he has done nothing to suggest he would, nor does he seem to take it seriously enough in my opinion.
What's the relevance of this? I am not defending the murder of unarmed men by British soldiers and I'm certainly not a tory.
How is Chuka being there helpful though? His 2nd referendum idea - which is all he’s got - doesn’t have a majority in the House of Commons.
Just a reminder of the type of people you're batting for with your constant attacks on Corbyn