Funnly enough I watched the 99 final today. That goal they scored which of the three would have saved it?
De Gea vs Van Der Sar vs Schmeichel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Schmeichel was the best. Mid 90's he was the indisputed best goalkeeper in the world. He could do everything De Gea and VDS could do and more. He could throw a ball farther than some goalkeepers could kick.
The revisionism in this thread is hilarious of late. Hes been here longer than Van der Sar was, as long as Schmeichel. In his 8 years, hes won the POTY 4 times. For a goalkeeper, for any player, that's ridiculous. Hes been officially recognized as the best goalkeeper in the world, IMO hes been the best in the world for 4-5 years. Put in performances weve never seen from goalkeepers, not even schmeichel or Van der sar had that level of consistency. I loved VDS, but he did have his share of flaps and errors that he made as well. Happens to everyone. De Gea is unfairly treated because hes unfortunately been through our shit period with awful defenders in front of him and only had Fergie for one year.
More than anything, despite regularly playing behind Smalling/Jones/whoever, we've consistently been among the best in the league every year defensively. Compare that to Schmeichel having Bruce, Pallister, Stam, etc or VDS having Rio and Vidic, and the whole "organizing the defence" argument looks more and more like a joke. Despite all this, we're always up there with the fewest conceded apart from this year. So yeah, spare me the bullshit of De Gea not being on their level. He is arguably as good if not better than any goalkeeper we've ever had. It's a hard comparison to make, but to suggest he isnt there because of a below par run of form is laughable.
More than anything, despite regularly playing behind Smalling/Jones/whoever, we've consistently been among the best in the league every year defensively. Compare that to Schmeichel having Bruce, Pallister, Stam, etc or VDS having Rio and Vidic, and the whole "organizing the defence" argument looks more and more like a joke. Despite all this, we're always up there with the fewest conceded apart from this year. So yeah, spare me the bullshit of De Gea not being on their level. He is arguably as good if not better than any goalkeeper we've ever had. It's a hard comparison to make, but to suggest he isnt there because of a below par run of form is laughable.
De Gea struggled in his first season because he was a promising 20/21 year old goalkeeper coming from Spain. He quickly adapted and the next season he was in the team of the year and won the title with us having a great year. Basically every year after that was our POTY. He's been excellent in the air for years too, it's only his recent drop in form. Which is fine. Happens. Players occasionally have below par seasons, no surprise exactly after carrying us for years.
Don't bother, picking, some will say, they were paid to much, there only keepers, I'd say they were all good, in modern day I'd have to pick DDG..
1. Schmeichel
2. VDS
3. De Gea
Don't @ me
2. VDS
3. De Gea
Don't @ me
An opposition player gets the ball and can charge at the goalkeeper to take a shot. I imagine Schmeigel aggressive charging at the ball and player and making a forceful save. The commentator would say "great save!". I imagine the player taking the shot against De Gea, who in a reflex makes a great save, same commentary. Van der Sar would have positioned the defense so the chance wouldn't be there, or if it was, tightened the angle by taking some steps forwards, the strikes shoots a little bit wide, and the commentator would say "bad miss!" VDS is probably a bit underrated here.
In any case, three different beasts of goalkeepers in different times at different ages with different styles. I'm not going to rank them 1, 2, 3.
In any case, three different beasts of goalkeepers in different times at different ages with different styles. I'm not going to rank them 1, 2, 3.
All three our best keepers but what separates them is their distribution and command of their area/box. Therefore 1) Schmeichel 2)VDS 3)De Gea
This is my last post in the Mains football forum so, I will make it quick.
I have mentioned it before in another thread about the quality of DeGea and yes, sometimes players make mistakes which is part of human nature. The number of times that he has saved our skins and saved us from being heavily defeated due to his "cat-like", reflexes is clearly understated. It is as if many of us have forgotten how much we need him between the goalposts. Imagine if we had Ben Foster/Gomez or Hennessy behind the likes of Smalling/Jones/Bailly or Young, we would have finished lower at the end of the season and we would have missed out on European qualification.
Further to that, it is no exaggeration that he is the only player we can really count on to perform on a weekly basis. We have Pogba, we have Lukaku, Martial or even Rashford however, in terms of importance, he turns 3 point losses into 3 point wins simply because of the shots he saves that are, for a majority, goal bound. As I said, if ever there was one player who helped us get European competition every season, then it is Dave DeGea. We can forgive him for having a couple of errors against Wolves, but I'd take errors in one game, rather than countless errors in a string of games that leads to goals.
I have mentioned it before in another thread about the quality of DeGea and yes, sometimes players make mistakes which is part of human nature. The number of times that he has saved our skins and saved us from being heavily defeated due to his "cat-like", reflexes is clearly understated. It is as if many of us have forgotten how much we need him between the goalposts. Imagine if we had Ben Foster/Gomez or Hennessy behind the likes of Smalling/Jones/Bailly or Young, we would have finished lower at the end of the season and we would have missed out on European qualification.
Further to that, it is no exaggeration that he is the only player we can really count on to perform on a weekly basis. We have Pogba, we have Lukaku, Martial or even Rashford however, in terms of importance, he turns 3 point losses into 3 point wins simply because of the shots he saves that are, for a majority, goal bound. As I said, if ever there was one player who helped us get European competition every season, then it is Dave DeGea. We can forgive him for having a couple of errors against Wolves, but I'd take errors in one game, rather than countless errors in a string of games that leads to goals.
Less that time is not so kind, more that our fans are not so kind. One bad season after a string of very good to outstanding ones and some decide to use him for piniata practice.
Maybe they try, but he's a stubborn little shit? Probably not, but it's bizarre how he's started to stagnate a little.
He made huge improvements under LvG with Hoek, but Mourinho brought in Emilio Alverez who appears to he De Gea's best mate. He's still great (despite iffy form) but he hasn't made noticeable improvement in a while. I find it hard to believe the staff aren't aware how glued to his line he is. It seems a simple thing to work on and coach.
Schmeichel
VDS
De Gea
No one is fecking with the great Dane
VDS
De Gea
No one is fecking with the great Dane
But remember that while De Gea is a fantastic line keeper, that is not the kind of keeper LvG favoured, and he got Romero as his successor with the premise that De Gea would leave to Real, and didn't seem too worried about that at the time. So apparently LvG/Hoek weren't too enthusiastic about his progress into a more multifaceted goalkeeper. (Of course LvG had bad judgement in goal keepers ever since VDS, and De Gea would continue after that to save his ass many times, to repeatedly win player of the year award, but that's a different story.)
The lack of patience, respect or loyalty being shown towards De Gea from some posters actually has me baffled. I mean fair criticism is perfectly fine (and warranted in this case given he has had a relatively poor season) and even unfair criticism is inevitable when poor form lasts for long enough but Christ it didn't take long for the revisionism to start in this case.
Just in the last few days I've seen people calling him a coward, calling him gutless, saying he's shit, saying he was never world class, saying he should be sold, saying that comparisons with VDS and Schmeichel insult them, saying he should be left to rot in the reserves, saying he needs to be upgraded, saying he isn't good enough for a top side, comparing him to the likes of Heaton and Foster, etc. It's madness.
I think De Gea is brilliant, but that this is one of his weak points - it's the other way round, he makes it harder for Smalling etc. just like the midfield with Herrera and Pogba and such makes it harder for the defense. Smalling is on the same level as VVD, but United defenders have a harder time with a goalkeeper staying on his line as an individual performer, leaving so much space, especially with the runners which the midfield allow to break through. Yet they get the blame when things go wrong.
For me, Schmeichel is the best keeper of the Premier League era. Had it all, really. It’s a shame he played for you.
Schmeichel played in a team that used to constantly get countered, and the amount of one on one saves he used to pull off was remarkable. To say he played infront of such and such to make De Gea look good just shows many of you just never watched Schmeichel play.
De Gea actually benefited from us hiring 3 negative minded managers who set the team to stifle the opposition, rather than take a proactive approach in trying to win the game. His command of his area is quite simply not good enough and his distribution is shit.
De Gea actually benefited from us hiring 3 negative minded managers who set the team to stifle the opposition, rather than take a proactive approach in trying to win the game. His command of his area is quite simply not good enough and his distribution is shit.
Smalling is a 75 million quid defender? since when?
Yeah, I remember at the time that LvG wasn't 100% taken by De Gea (and he supposedly didn't want Neuer at Bayern).
De Gea improved massively in those 2 season though, his distribution was excellent as well. Since then, he's gone backwards in terms of what he does with the ball, whether it's instructional or down to him not knowing what to do I guess we'll never know.
Hoek seemed to be good for him and his development.
Hes just not as good as schmeichel. Being the best player in a team coming anywhere from 4th to 7th doesn't really carry much weight really.
Plus schmeichrl played in a team that attacked. In thr past 5 or 6 years we've played some turged defensive football. That helps with the defensive record.
Not saying hes not been great but schmeichel for me was better.
I admit it, I really like Smalling. Strong, authoritative, calm, fast, basic but knows his limitations, when he gets the ball, gives it to a more creative player or better passer. Dangerous air presence at corners and advanced free kicks. Just like VVD. Only VVD plays in a better operating team. And Liverpool is "smaller". If VVD has a lesser game, it's one of those things, and the fans argue he'll be the usual force next game and people forget. But if Smalling is involved in a goal by the opposition, he has been "found out" and "always been shit". I don't consider this necessarily a bad thing, it just means United is the bigger club with the bigger expectations and more critical fans.
Derailing the thread somewhat by bringing this post back but it was a great watch. Speed of the play, how open it was, the atmosphere. Schmeichel was amazing in that game, the force of his personality was such a part of his play, something Dave can never match.
Also a few other things from those highlights, how great Keane was, the deftness of Cole's link up play(always frustrated that we never got a great angle of that dragback he pulled off before setting up Phil for the cross to Eric, a fantastic piece of skill) and as a negative how slow Bruce was. I loved Bruce and Pallister but we could never have won a CL with those 2 as the CB pairing. Bruce by that stage was too much of a liability against the more skilled and sophisticated play on the continent at the time, a monster against long ball domestic teams though.
Spot on
Some fans don't realise how exposed Schmeichel was in our 'Gung Ho' approach in the 90s, and he used to thrive on making wonder saves. Ian Wright used to have a particular problem in scoring past Schmeichel who used to put his face where most wouldn't put their boot.
Despite that, we've been pretty shit at defensive football, and we allow a hell of a lot of shots on target, so I don't believe that is a mark against De Gea, as he's been required to win us points on many occasions.
Schmeichel was my hero growing up, he was immense, but I think De Gea has won us more games via his ability than Schmeichel or Van Der Sar ever had to.
This is Schmeichel. But it also reminds me of an interview with a defender, Koeman if I remember correctly when he was still a player, about what type of goalkeeper defenders like. For defenders, that "force of personality" or alpha-goalkeeper is also blundly said often the raving lunatic which almost broke your neck last game while barging into a cross ball, or shouts at defenders each time the opposition had a chance even if it was his own fault. Defenders like the calming, "boring" personalities in goal where they know exactly what they are going to do.
That is true. Schmeichel did make a lot of mistakes over the years that Dave would not make. Away to Bayern in the last minute coming to take a long throw he was never going to get near comes to mind. He was a big game player though, not just at Utd but in international football as well and in a Utd team littered with strong personalities he was a good fit. Ince, Keane, Bruce, Hughes, Robson, Cantona and Schmeichel, testosterone levels at dangerous levels there
Van Der Sar gets overlooked in this discussion but he is really the happy medium between the 2 approaches. Not as passive as Dave or as insanely aggressive as Schmeichel, commands the box while also being that calming personality who doesn't make his defenders nervous.
Van der Sar > Schmeichel >>> De Gea.
VDS - just so calm, organised his defence so well, brilliant positioning, commanded his area, good shot stopper.
Schmeichel - organised his defence, commanded his are, great at 1 on 1s, made himself big when shot stopping, organised his defence.
DDG - probably the best pure shot stopper ever. Can't really do anything else, though.
DDG has nowhere near the all-rounded game of VDS or Schmeichel and therefore can never be as good as them.
You can really tell the age demographic of this forum from the replies in here or the favourite player thread. It's a real shame that most of you never saw the great players of the past, you would quickly realise just how poor the last few years really have been. None of this current squad would have made the teams from 10 or 20 years ago.
VDS - just so calm, organised his defence so well, brilliant positioning, commanded his area, good shot stopper.
Schmeichel - organised his defence, commanded his are, great at 1 on 1s, made himself big when shot stopping, organised his defence.
DDG - probably the best pure shot stopper ever. Can't really do anything else, though.
DDG has nowhere near the all-rounded game of VDS or Schmeichel and therefore can never be as good as them.
You can really tell the age demographic of this forum from the replies in here or the favourite player thread. It's a real shame that most of you never saw the great players of the past, you would quickly realise just how poor the last few years really have been. None of this current squad would have made the teams from 10 or 20 years ago.
Never said he isn't world class.
De Gea
Schmeichel
VDS
You guys have absolutely lost the plot. The revisionism that I am seeing here is off the charts. Get your acts together folks.
Schmeichel
VDS
You guys have absolutely lost the plot. The revisionism that I am seeing here is off the charts. Get your acts together folks.
Your profile states your age as being 24, you weren't even born when we signed Schmeichel or when Edwin won the European Cup with Ajax in 95.
This is exactly how I see it and rate them as well.
Edwin was just a brilliant, all-around keeper. His positioning and decision making was immaculate. It seemed like he just never made mistakes.
That’s what separates him from Schmeichel for me. Big Pete was awesome and intimidating, but he did have a howler in him now and again.
De Gea shouldn’t even be in the conversation. The poll results are hilarious.
Yeah but he said revisionism mate so hes probably right. You've just lost the plot.
Nah..
VDS > DDG > Big Pete
Reason I don't have DDG as #1 is purely because he doesn't command the box either in the air or if running out to take the ball from onrushing attackers.
He sits on the line far too often for me.
Reason I don't have DDG as #1 is purely because he doesn't command the box either in the air or if running out to take the ball from onrushing attackers.
He sits on the line far too often for me.
The strange thing was, that year (his last ever season at the age of 40) was arguably his best ever season. Probably the only season he was truly the best goalkeeper in the world. The rest of his time he was 'only' in the top three or so (in an era that had much stronger competition than De Gea has had where it's basically been him and Neuer for most of it).How was this a question?
Schmeichel and VDS did everything DDG does + more.
A lot of people used the reflex argument for DDG but tend to forget just how good VDS was at reflexes. This is at 40 years of age.
Insanely good. That rushing out to stop Anelka near the corner flag at 2:55
I'll start by saying DeGea has been an unbelievable keeper for us, right up there....but I've always felt he's too scared, and that stops him from being above Schmeichel, who's one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time.
The goal DeGea let in against Wolves, if I was playing for my old Saturday teams third team and they had no keeper, so had to get someone to play in net, and they conceded that goal......I'd be furious.
It was that bad.
The goal DeGea let in against Wolves, if I was playing for my old Saturday teams third team and they had no keeper, so had to get someone to play in net, and they conceded that goal......I'd be furious.
It was that bad.
It is not fair to compare DDG to Peter, The great Pete is the best goalkeeper in the history of football. De Gea!! not even close.
Schmeichel is still the best for me. He was a real presense, a winner through and through. He didn't really have any weaknesses.
VDS was never a world class shot stopper, but he was world class at everything else. Totally professional, organised, reliable. He played in a great team, but I think he improved whoever played in front of him.
DDG might be the best shot stopper in history, incredible reactions. But we often end up under pressure because of his reluctance to leave his line. He plays as a traditional goalkeeper - he doesn't really want the ball at his feet. Which is fine...but if you want to dominate a match you want 11 footballers on the pitch, not 10.
DDG is beneath both Schmeichel and VDS for me, for now.
VDS was never a world class shot stopper, but he was world class at everything else. Totally professional, organised, reliable. He played in a great team, but I think he improved whoever played in front of him.
DDG might be the best shot stopper in history, incredible reactions. But we often end up under pressure because of his reluctance to leave his line. He plays as a traditional goalkeeper - he doesn't really want the ball at his feet. Which is fine...but if you want to dominate a match you want 11 footballers on the pitch, not 10.
DDG is beneath both Schmeichel and VDS for me, for now.
What the hell is this supposed to mean mr ridiculous. The only one who needs to get their act together is you. It’s not losing the plot when you prefer VDS or Schmeichel. They all not the same type of goalkeeper. All have a bit of different traits, so people would prefer one to the other. So how is that ridiculous, ridiculous?
I want my goalkeeper to be more dominant especially for crosses and long balls in the premier league. It will help the defence knowing they got a keeper who is going to come out and catch stuff. Everyone has different opinions, so nobody is losing the plot when they prefer VDS or Schmeichel to DDG. The first two are legendary goalkeepers. The way you are going it’s like we having a vote between Fletcher and Keane.
Schmeichel / VDS vs legends like Shearer, Henry ,Van Persie, Drogba, Owen , Fowler ,Suarez, Ian Wright , Bergkamp, Les Ferdinand, Hasselbaink etc
DDG vs legends like Aubameyang, Lacazette, Salah ,Firmino , Mane , Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Kane, Giroud, Morata etc
I doubt DDG can even get in the best 50 EPL players list...