do you think that we need to get back amongst the trophies straight away with “instant” players or do you think the club would benefit from a slower rebuild by investing in the best young players and perhaps not seeing the best of them for a couple of years?
What type of rebuild do you want to see?
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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Neither will work until the club has been restructured from the boardroom, down through every aspect of the club behind the scenes. Don't do that and it doesn't matter if we spend a billion pounds signing ready made superstars or we bring in 20 of the most talented teenagers on the planet. It will all go to shit anyway.
Looking forward to those who are going to vote for no rebuild. Probably all the rival clubs fans.
Instant impact players are better for me. Just 2 proper markets, sell and spend loads in every position wisely and we'll be good. The problem is we spend randomly without any kind of plan and overpay for not as good players.
Instant impact players are better for me. Just 2 proper markets, sell and spend loads in every position wisely and we'll be good. The problem is we spend randomly without any kind of plan and overpay for not as good players.
New Messi and young English players.
The answer was always on this forum, I'm the first one to mix those two though, no need to thank me.
The answer was always on this forum, I'm the first one to mix those two though, no need to thank me.
Exciting young players with 1 or 2 experienced heads thrown in too.
Something like:
Toby, WanBissaka, Rice (or Gueye), Sancho.
Something like:
Toby, WanBissaka, Rice (or Gueye), Sancho.
A monumental rebuild is required, from the top to the bottom.
Even the kit man (woman) needs replacing.
Even the kit man (woman) needs replacing.
New Messi, Old Messi, current Messi, new English players, young English players and current English players.
We need a steady transfer process, with clarity on what we actually want to do with our style and approach, as soon as we can see this happening with actual progress on the pitch, then most fans will happily wait a few years to see success again.
The issue is that we are clearly not about to do this, we don't have the skill at the top, and the jury is out on if the manager and coaches have it in them at the highest level. Also there is no evidence to suggest Woodward and the Glazers will be patient and allow the above to happen.
So for Ole's sake it is probably best to throw a load more money at it in the hope something sticks this time.
The issue is that we are clearly not about to do this, we don't have the skill at the top, and the jury is out on if the manager and coaches have it in them at the highest level. Also there is no evidence to suggest Woodward and the Glazers will be patient and allow the above to happen.
So for Ole's sake it is probably best to throw a load more money at it in the hope something sticks this time.
Why does it need to be one or the other? Can we not have a mixture - ie. core young players with one or two ‘instant impact’ players to get us over the line?
Start from the back as it's the area in most need of instant change.
RB: Bissaka
CB: Pay Toby release clause from Spurs and negotiate with the player. He's 29 but having a world class centre back if only for 2 or so years is fine. We're desperate at the moment.
CB 2: We should be going all out for De Ligt, even if we can't sign him Barca should be forced into paying 80m+. It sickens me how clubs drop out of the race for these signatures because Barca/Madrid get involved. At a minimum we should be ramping up the value to hurt them in other areas.
CB 3. De ligt is an outside chance so Koulibaly would be another option.
CM: Partner for Pogba, either Eriksen/Ndombele/Fernandes. Eriksen would be first choice, we can outbid spurs and he'd been underpaid for years.
RW: Sancho the standout choice, Young/talented/English. Pepe from Lille 2nd choice. I'd honestly look at signing them both as Mata/Sanchez would be sold.
Right back/Right Wing/Centre back and Centre mid seem like the 4 priorities to me. There's other players I'd like to see bought and released but I don't even have confidence in our ability to get those 4 done.
RB: Bissaka
CB: Pay Toby release clause from Spurs and negotiate with the player. He's 29 but having a world class centre back if only for 2 or so years is fine. We're desperate at the moment.
CB 2: We should be going all out for De Ligt, even if we can't sign him Barca should be forced into paying 80m+. It sickens me how clubs drop out of the race for these signatures because Barca/Madrid get involved. At a minimum we should be ramping up the value to hurt them in other areas.
CB 3. De ligt is an outside chance so Koulibaly would be another option.
CM: Partner for Pogba, either Eriksen/Ndombele/Fernandes. Eriksen would be first choice, we can outbid spurs and he'd been underpaid for years.
RW: Sancho the standout choice, Young/talented/English. Pepe from Lille 2nd choice. I'd honestly look at signing them both as Mata/Sanchez would be sold.
Right back/Right Wing/Centre back and Centre mid seem like the 4 priorities to me. There's other players I'd like to see bought and released but I don't even have confidence in our ability to get those 4 done.
Exactly ... we have done the superstars (Sanchez, Di Maria, Pogba) and the talented teenagers (Martial, Dalot and promoted Rashford) and until we learn to utilize the talent we have and fix the problems behind the scenes we will remain exactly where we are.
How come always one or the other?
A bit of both. Talent that can also improve us now though, and not just in 3-5 years, because that's pointless and as we've seen, they may not actually improve that much themselves, especially if not in a great setup. They need quality around them to lift them up and take them to the next level.
A bit of both. Talent that can also improve us now though, and not just in 3-5 years, because that's pointless and as we've seen, they may not actually improve that much themselves, especially if not in a great setup. They need quality around them to lift them up and take them to the next level.
If we want success now we would need to buy 8-9 "instant" players. That is expensive, and not going to happen, but we should still aiming to sell/release 15 of the players in the squad over the next two seasons.
Buy players to have a team decent enough to secure top 4 next season and hope that the Manager/coaches are able to improve the overall fitness/technical ability in the squad to achieve this.
Young players we should be after: Felix and Zaniolo this summer and Sancho next.
Buy players to have a team decent enough to secure top 4 next season and hope that the Manager/coaches are able to improve the overall fitness/technical ability in the squad to achieve this.
Young players we should be after: Felix and Zaniolo this summer and Sancho next.
There's nothing wrong with instant players so long as they're coming for the right reasons and with the right vetting.
We stopped vetting players properly when Fergie left. He looked at their personality, their families, their entourages etc. We signed 4 feckers managed by Raiola and we're wondering why we're now up shit creek. We signed a player from Madrid who was literally born with no spine. We signed a striker with the first touch of a 60 year old pub team player. We signed a CDM with the turning speed of an ocean liner who had already proven at Chelsea that he was worthless when it really mattered. We signed Sanchez who not only looked clearly burned out at Arsenal but also downed-tools.
We don't need instant-impact so much as we need a few players at the right age bracket (25-27) who are experienced in winning, who are vocal on the pitch and who are model professionals. Basically we need to replace one Herrera with three more.
We stopped vetting players properly when Fergie left. He looked at their personality, their families, their entourages etc. We signed 4 feckers managed by Raiola and we're wondering why we're now up shit creek. We signed a player from Madrid who was literally born with no spine. We signed a striker with the first touch of a 60 year old pub team player. We signed a CDM with the turning speed of an ocean liner who had already proven at Chelsea that he was worthless when it really mattered. We signed Sanchez who not only looked clearly burned out at Arsenal but also downed-tools.
We don't need instant-impact so much as we need a few players at the right age bracket (25-27) who are experienced in winning, who are vocal on the pitch and who are model professionals. Basically we need to replace one Herrera with three more.
LiterallySomething like Pochetinho has done at Spurs. Bringing in and through players that cohere into something resembling an actual team.
Young players with a view to build over several years - there’s too much wrong with the current squad and starting XI to put right in one summer. We don’t have the money (or the owners at least) to do it all in one summer even if it was possible.
City and Liverpool should be fighting it at the top of the league as long as their managers are both there, and Spurs should have one of the other top four places nailed down, so it’s us up against Arsenal and Chelsea for now. We have to progress from there.
City and Liverpool should be fighting it at the top of the league as long as their managers are both there, and Spurs should have one of the other top four places nailed down, so it’s us up against Arsenal and Chelsea for now. We have to progress from there.
I’m just curious to see how many fans have the patience for the “long haul” approach if we have to watch city, Liverpool and spurs challenging for all the trophies for the next few years
I would like us to add a right back and a right wing. Then I would add a centre back to play with Lindelof and a midfielder that can replace Matic during next season. I struggle to make up my mind on what type we should look for. I would probably say a complete and well rounded player. Someone who can pass but at the same is quick. Kante would be perfect.
I do think that all the players should be relatively young 21-26 (depending on past experience), but maybe the central defender should rather be closer to 26 rather than 21 (unless we can get De Ligt). I would look for a young right winger and a young right back.
Furthermore, I would be close to desperate to keep Herrera and Pogba. We actually looked quite good with Matic, Pogba and Herrera in midfield. Most people dont remember, but we did. If we can get Pogba to stay for one more season, I would try to bring in his replacement this summer (Havertz, Fernandes or similar).
As Samuel L. Jackson would have said, bitch stay cool!
I think most would be with clearly defined approach, but first we need to put everything in place to have a chance at that working, right now we don't, so it's pointless.
I don't think young players necessarily means "long haul". If they're the right ones we should still see a big improvement on what we've seen this season.
As long as we are playing good football and we can see a clear sign of improvement going forward, I think most fans would accept it (as long as we don't drop further than competing for CL spots like we have been for most of the last 5 years).
In saying that, I would expect we'd be looking for a combination of the two. A couple of experienced ready-made players (still no older than 29 or so), and a couple of younger players.
It’s nonsense that we need 8-9 players. Look at Ajax. A top midfielder/RB/CB/ and senior striker will do the trick.
We always overreact and sell good players for next to nothing who then shine elsewhere... Zaha, Blind etc
Klop comes to Liverpool and is doing it with Milner and Ox, Henderson type of players
We always overreact and sell good players for next to nothing who then shine elsewhere... Zaha, Blind etc
Klop comes to Liverpool and is doing it with Milner and Ox, Henderson type of players
A mix of both, but mainly younger players. In defence if we sign a 27 year old in their prime, for example, it will be great for the team because they could go on for another 5/6 years by which time it’s Lindelof who can step up and be a leader. I think we need to sign someone senior in attack but I don’t think there are any options.
We need a bit of both. I honestly don't think we're getting Sancho this summer. So I'd love to see Zaha come in instead. I absolutely wouldn't say no to Bale on a year's loan too in the Pogba deal with Martial not deserving a starting role just yet.
We may not be able to avoid a full blown rebuild this summer with Pogba and De Gea leaving I would say.
We may not be able to avoid a full blown rebuild this summer with Pogba and De Gea leaving I would say.
Handanović
Meunier Skriniar Lindelof Shaw
Rabiot, Rice, Bruno Fernandes
Bale Rashford Zaha
Meunier Skriniar Lindelof Shaw
Rabiot, Rice, Bruno Fernandes
Bale Rashford Zaha
We need a combination of impact and younger players with potential. Definitely need an impact central defender and midfielder.
Mix. By next season, minimum we need to have a squad that guarantee us a comfortable top 4 spot not a squad that struggle to achieve a top 4.
There are players in the market that we can take and improve our squad.
2 Ball playing: I expect this area to be expensive if we want to sign them.
Right back: meunier is available cheap.
Midfield: Rabiot is free & we should try to keep Pogba & Herrera.
2 attackers: I expect us to spend huge on this area.
There are players in the market that we can take and improve our squad.
2 Ball playing: I expect this area to be expensive if we want to sign them.
Right back: meunier is available cheap.
Midfield: Rabiot is free & we should try to keep Pogba & Herrera.
2 attackers: I expect us to spend huge on this area.
+1 for the group who likes/doesn't mind the 'long haul' as long as it's done by people who care about and understand the sport.
But I'm biased towards a preference for watching young/underrated/right-minded players come into their own.
If Moyes and Woodward hadn't chased the last cycle of SAF's world-class veterans out en masse, I believe we would have been fine without any need for this sort of discussion.
What they did during that period turned a potential either/or situation into a default ground-zero rebuild. Like stripping three wheels off a race car going close to max speed.
Hell, I think one of the best things for the club right now would be to gather as many of that old guard as possible and have them train with the current squad for a while. Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Rooney, Park, O Shea, Brown, Saha, Nani, Anderson, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, etc.
After ten days or so, have the old guard evaluate the squad's mentality behind closed doors. And you might just get one or two of the current crop to pull a Luke Shaw, i.e. Ohhhhh, so that's how hard you have to work or realize that some of those those world-class players were on half the wages.
But I'm biased towards a preference for watching young/underrated/right-minded players come into their own.
If Moyes and Woodward hadn't chased the last cycle of SAF's world-class veterans out en masse, I believe we would have been fine without any need for this sort of discussion.
What they did during that period turned a potential either/or situation into a default ground-zero rebuild. Like stripping three wheels off a race car going close to max speed.
Hell, I think one of the best things for the club right now would be to gather as many of that old guard as possible and have them train with the current squad for a while. Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Rooney, Park, O Shea, Brown, Saha, Nani, Anderson, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, etc.
After ten days or so, have the old guard evaluate the squad's mentality behind closed doors. And you might just get one or two of the current crop to pull a Luke Shaw, i.e. Ohhhhh, so that's how hard you have to work or realize that some of those those world-class players were on half the wages.
No option for rebuilding the south stand. I'd vote for that.
Id like to see the squad gutted.
In an ideal FM scenario Id keep:
DeGea
Romero
Pogba
Rashford
Herrera
Lindleof
Shaw
Martial
Axel
Dalot
Loan these kids out:
Chong - Gomez - Garner - Greenwood - McTominay
Realistically though that isnt going to happen but thats the rebuild Id like to start of with. Gut the deadwood.
In an ideal FM scenario Id keep:
DeGea
Romero
Pogba
Rashford
Herrera
Lindleof
Shaw
Martial
Axel
Dalot
Loan these kids out:
Chong - Gomez - Garner - Greenwood - McTominay
Realistically though that isnt going to happen but thats the rebuild Id like to start of with. Gut the deadwood.
If Ole manages to get Gomes, Chong and Greenwood into the first team, fix the defense and get us playing attractive football, he’s done very well in my book.
I'd rather see one of those rebuild millionaires do when they buy a property, knock the old one completely down, then rebuild a different one on the same land. If I had the money I'd do that instead of living in a house Jose Mourinho's had his ballsack all over.
Get rid of Valencia, Rojo, Darmian, Bailly, Mata and Sanchez this summer. Lukaku, Young, Matic next summer.
Buy 3-4 and promote a couple of kids each year. Greenwood, Gomes and Axel for the 2019/20 season.
Buy 3-4 and promote a couple of kids each year. Greenwood, Gomes and Axel for the 2019/20 season.
A mix of 2 & 3 would be nice.
Mix between two and three for me. I feel we shouldn’t get bogged down with any specific criteria.
Buy the most promising early 20s and teen footballers and make sure we get the right personalities into the club. A club like Ajax for example employs a certain model when assessing their potential targets and youth players and I would like us to employ a similar strategy when rebuilding this squad.
That shouldn't though that we should go for a world class player if he fits into the philosophy and makes 100% sense for us and even wants to play for us. Bale for example, while I don't doubt his attitude or work ethic would also be the wrong choice, because he is simply too injury prone.
That shouldn't though that we should go for a world class player if he fits into the philosophy and makes 100% sense for us and even wants to play for us. Bale for example, while I don't doubt his attitude or work ethic would also be the wrong choice, because he is simply too injury prone.
No reason why young players can't have an instant impact.
Rodri
Neves
Felix
De Ligt
Sancho
Was Bissaka
All make us better instantly. That's the profile of player we should be going for. The best young players in the world and especially if they're English.
Rodri
Neves
Felix
De Ligt
Sancho
Was Bissaka
All make us better instantly. That's the profile of player we should be going for. The best young players in the world and especially if they're English.
I want to see young, hungry players designed to fit a particular system.
At the moment, Man Utd have no wide midfielders, and no wide attackers. Martial, Rashford, Lingard, they're not wide attackers. Sanchez doesn't count, he's gone. Fred, Pogba, Matic, Herrera, McTominay, Pereira, all are also central players. So there's no width except provided by the full-backs. Players also lack dynamism and aggression in midfield.
Therefore there need to be dynamic young players, who are still to make a name for themselves and for whom United are one of the ultimate clubs. Declan Rice is a good example of the kind of young player United should be looking to sign. Additionally, there need to be wide players brought in who actually ARE wide players. Jadon Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, are good examples of these. This will allow United to do what always used to be done well - make the pitch bigger, attack from a variety of angles, create space.
No player joining should see United as a stepping-stone, or a step down. That means no Barca/Madrid cast-offs, and a thorough review and interview process for players to check their character, which has simply not been happening.
At the moment, Man Utd have no wide midfielders, and no wide attackers. Martial, Rashford, Lingard, they're not wide attackers. Sanchez doesn't count, he's gone. Fred, Pogba, Matic, Herrera, McTominay, Pereira, all are also central players. So there's no width except provided by the full-backs. Players also lack dynamism and aggression in midfield.
Therefore there need to be dynamic young players, who are still to make a name for themselves and for whom United are one of the ultimate clubs. Declan Rice is a good example of the kind of young player United should be looking to sign. Additionally, there need to be wide players brought in who actually ARE wide players. Jadon Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, are good examples of these. This will allow United to do what always used to be done well - make the pitch bigger, attack from a variety of angles, create space.
No player joining should see United as a stepping-stone, or a step down. That means no Barca/Madrid cast-offs, and a thorough review and interview process for players to check their character, which has simply not been happening.
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Think we need to face it, no matter what we do this summer we arn't going to compete for next season for the league or probably even the season after, so signing players 27+ would be a waste by the time we are ready to compete we would likly coming towards the end of their peak.
So personally think we shouldn't sign anyone over 25. No Bales, No Alderweirelds, No Trippiers........ We need Player like Rice, de Ligt, Felix..... we need to be looking at who have likly to be great players in 3 or 4 years and have the attitude and work ethic to back it up and signing them. Not going after ready made players looking for a big final contract.
We also need to ensure we get rid of the players who are obviously causing the dressing room to have an attitude problem. Only Really the staff know who the are, but we also need to ensure the staff are the right people, so we have a culture at the club, where everyone works hard, everyone buts in that extra effort every game, everyone want to work hard on and off the pitch to improve individually and as a team
Then in a couple of years when you have most of the squad in place you bring in ready made player to fill in the gap your still missing, the van Dijk, the Van Persie sort of signing. But you don't do it this summer, we are no way near there so it would just be a waste.
So personally think we shouldn't sign anyone over 25. No Bales, No Alderweirelds, No Trippiers........ We need Player like Rice, de Ligt, Felix..... we need to be looking at who have likly to be great players in 3 or 4 years and have the attitude and work ethic to back it up and signing them. Not going after ready made players looking for a big final contract.
We also need to ensure we get rid of the players who are obviously causing the dressing room to have an attitude problem. Only Really the staff know who the are, but we also need to ensure the staff are the right people, so we have a culture at the club, where everyone works hard, everyone buts in that extra effort every game, everyone want to work hard on and off the pitch to improve individually and as a team
Then in a couple of years when you have most of the squad in place you bring in ready made player to fill in the gap your still missing, the van Dijk, the Van Persie sort of signing. But you don't do it this summer, we are no way near there so it would just be a waste.
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There should be a combination of both. We cant go City way but we can go by Liverpool way .
Some PL proven back up options, some young players, some who is ready to take the next step, some brilliant signing .
Some PL proven back up options, some young players, some who is ready to take the next step, some brilliant signing .