That is my nightmare.
How far away from City are we?
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Like they were miles behind us in 2008. Somehow we done a u turn and now they miles in front of us.
That’s true, but the question asked wasn’t based on this very game.
Good thing about the UAE in particular is they take consultation from the best generally, if they want a modern road system they ask the worlds best to come up with an efficient road system. If they want to build the worlds tallest building they will ask the worlds best engineers (Burj Khalifa and now Creek Tower), the same with the UAE space probe that was launched recently, Expo 2020 next year, they have a hyperloop potentially being built soon.
They aren't afraid to dream big, and to spend big to make it happen.
When they took over City they weren't afraid to spend the money, to put their branding all over football, the UAE got their name out there renaming Arsenals stadium to Emirates too. In general if they want to do something they will.
City took consultation, started small but built, hired the best manager at the time, when a better manager became available they hired them, when a better player became available they bought them. They attempted to buy Kaka, Messi in the past too, they're not afraid to buy the right players, to hire the best manager, and to take the right consultation from the right people.
How many times have City sacked a manager mid-season? it generally hasn't happened (if it has) because if a better option is available, they wait until the end of the season, then they replace them, they don't sack mid-season and get a caretaker in, then scrounge around trying to find a replacement, hiring someone like OGS would be unheard of. That's where the club is.
You ask yourself when De Bruyne signs "thats a lot of money for De Bruyne", we said the same when Van Dijk was bought for liverpool too "£75M for a defender?" but again, they bought quality, and you don't question the transfer fee now.
United on the counterpart are afraid to spend money, and hiring shite, it's like going from fresh ingredients to wholesale frozen because its cheaper, it isn't going to win you any awards. It's a joke how the club is run honestly.
We hear United may not get many signings this summer, Ferdinand might be the DoF, OGS is the manager of the club now.
The club aren't hiring the best, they aren't paying the fees, and the club is now a top 6 team, they will revert to pre fergie era very soon if not already, 30 years without a title, the club is becoming Liverpool of the 90s.
That includes building the best facilities, hiring the best youth coaches.
Uniteds biggest issue was they left it all to Fergie, for the Glazers coming in, they bought a cash cow, it was the prized pony a sure thing. With Fergie at the helm he knew how to win, you could give him scraps and he'd win a title with players like Cleverley and Hernandez. The club took minimal investment and the club won trophy after trophy.
Whilst all of that was going on, the entire foundations of the club were rotten, it didn't get any investment. When Fergie left, nothing changed, the entire core was still rotten, but there were no real new people brought in, and now the club is paying the price, still the same dinosaurs, still archaic.
Fergie also had the fortune of having the class of 92, the spine of the team Scholes and Giggs in particular 2 of the best players of their generation, meant the club never really had to spend in those areas, and when Fergie left, so did Scholes and Giggs and you are then replacing 2 of the best midfielders of their generation AND the best manager of all time.
City had the benefit of they had a clean slate, they could build from scratch, they could set ridiculously high standards, but now it's still after 6 years adjusting to Fergie leaving, and it's embarrassing honestly.
Biggest issue for United now too is, if you want to play for the best club, and play with the best players you go to those clubs.
You want to play with Maldini in the year 2000? you have to go to AC Milan because they are loyal to that club, you want to play with Messi? you have to go to Barca, the issue for United now is, there's no player you'd join United to play with, no Scholes, no Giggs, you go to United for a pay-day.
If you want to play good football you go to City or Liverpool, you can play under Klopp or Guardiola, who wants to come and play under OGS.
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Correct.
I keep being told that despite us finishing in 2nd place behind City, that was somehow a 'fluke'.
This season despite another change of manager we will finish 5/6th and nearly 30 points behind.
So. The gap is massive and increasing.
This absolutely has to be the worst and the gap cannot be allowed to continue.
However, closing that gap is not going to happen immediately.
To be honest I never, even in my wildest nightmares thought that we could fall this far behind.
Theres lights in the nights sky that are closer to earth than we are to city.
As far away as they were to us back when we had SAF and the sheiks hadn't bought them yet.
I think we are about 16* quality players off City.
* i expect Pogba and DDG to leave the club
-55 goal difference
I've had a bet with a City supporting friend of mine that United would finish ahead of City at least once in the coming 10 years(from 2013/14)
It's been 6 years now and I've decided to call the whole thing off.
From a football point of view.. City are just better run than us. In fairness they are better run that most clubs. Yes they spend a lot of money. But so have and most of ours has just been wasted.
It's been 6 years now and I've decided to call the whole thing off.
From a football point of view.. City are just better run than us. In fairness they are better run that most clubs. Yes they spend a lot of money. But so have and most of ours has just been wasted.
Im not even looking at City at the moment. How far away are we from playing just decent Football is my question?
Didnt Moyes once say something among the likes of aspiring to be City. After 5-6 years the club is chasing.
Reminder that this board and our recruitment has shown, time and time again, that it isn't good enough.
We were 2nd last year. Doesn't mean much.
Not a fun thread
Realistically they have ran their club better then us for nearly a decade.
- Their first team squad is better then ours
- Their manager is better then ours
- Their recruitment and scouting network is better then ours
- Their academy is better then ours
- Their stadium is better maintained
- Their whole footballing structure is better ran organised and planned out then ours and has been for years.
A distance that is measured in multiple years.
People point to Liverpool finishing fourth just last year but they were multiple years into a rebuilding process at that point, one that at least had the potential to flourish further this year. Aside from the key players they already had in place after several years of good recruitment (Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD, Robertson, Wijnaldum, etc.) they also had a defined style of play that was bedded in over several years. We saw flashes of their potential in their CL run as well as the general quality of their play across the season, even if their results were inconsistent. The question they faced this season was whether they could make another step up and find that consistency required to challenge in the league.
In our case we don't have the core group of players required to challenge, we don't have that defined style of play, we don't have a long CL run to look to for optimism and we don't have the sort of inconsistently brilliant performances that might suggest we're in a position to make a step up.
People point to Liverpool finishing fourth just last year but they were multiple years into a rebuilding process at that point, one that at least had the potential to flourish further this year. Aside from the key players they already had in place after several years of good recruitment (Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD, Robertson, Wijnaldum, etc.) they also had a defined style of play that was bedded in over several years. We saw flashes of their potential in their CL run as well as the general quality of their play across the season, even if their results were inconsistent. The question they faced this season was whether they could make another step up and find that consistency required to challenge in the league.
In our case we don't have the core group of players required to challenge, we don't have that defined style of play, we don't have a long CL run to look to for optimism and we don't have the sort of inconsistently brilliant performances that might suggest we're in a position to make a step up.
Probably 2.5 miles.
Very, very far away. As long as Pep stays we will be nowhere near challenging City. They are a 100 points team and can sustain that every single season unless they have a meltdown which is unlikely. They are the best team in the country by a mile (even compared to Liverpool, I can't see them winning 90+ points next season) and it's sickening when we are not closing the gap between us and them but lagging even more behind instead.
Things change quickly in football so you can’t measure it in terms of years (i.e how many years before we will finish above them) but at this present moment we are light years away. So far off on every level it’s insane.
City only became huge-unreachable once Pep arrived (2012 and 2014 were lucky titles). And he needed a full season to get things working. Liverpool is having a "supernova" season, but I doubt they will repeat this anytime soon (+90 PL points and UCL semis). We have already seen the real level of Spurs (13 defeats and most likely 4th, only because Arse and Utd. kept losing key matches).
My point is: City will become a "normal" PL contender as soon as Pep leaves, Spurs could easily end 5th or 6th next season, Liverpool is having a "once in a decade" season. Sarri's Chelsea is currently an engima. With a right summer transfer window, United can easily end 2nd next season (Pep most likely winning a third consecutive league).
My point is: City will become a "normal" PL contender as soon as Pep leaves, Spurs could easily end 5th or 6th next season, Liverpool is having a "once in a decade" season. Sarri's Chelsea is currently an engima. With a right summer transfer window, United can easily end 2nd next season (Pep most likely winning a third consecutive league).
Exactly.
Don't think we have ever been more far away from them than right now.
The gap with city will get bigger for as long as the Glazers own the club. It's obvious.
N/A
they have better midfield players who can provide more coverage, strength and vision. Matic is too old to run. Pogba should be that person but is so selfish and egocentric.
A proper manager/coach with a plan+ about 5 players. The former is the most important however. We need to first know what we are doing, otherwise we could add the 5 best players in each of the positions we are lacking and they would still be a better side than us, and we’d be back to claiming we only sign rubbish players or that Messi and Verratti only flopped because they were mercenaries.
Pogba is anything but selfish on the pitch. Since he arrived at United he has created chance after chance after chance which has not been taken.
Well we just had a pretty even draw with Huddersfield, and our 2 games with City this season were anything but even, so he's got a point.
Wow, you just depressed me that mumore. Thanks
Their strength in depth is fecking unreal. They have Sane we have fecking Lingard. Wouldn't even surprise me if Lingard has started more games for us than Sane for them this season. Mahrez too, ffs. Why can't we spunk £60m on a 4th choice winger!
Although I guess we did spunk £50m on a 5th choice CM, so never mind
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Three world class attacking players for a new front 3 and United would fight for the tittle. The main problem for a top team is when players know that is hard to score goals, so they can't be behind in the score. It makes everybody nervous.
£500m away.
they start to rebuild few years ago while maybe we'll start next season if Ed realise and decide to do the right things by appoint a DOF or maybe the solution as simple as using current directors (SAF & Gill) to handle the football aspect while Ed more focus on marketing things since he's the best in the world in that area.
Better manager; City
Better defence; City
Better midfield; City
Better attack; City
Budget; City
Scouting; City
So i would say that it is close call
Better defence; City
Better midfield; City
Better attack; City
Budget; City
Scouting; City
So i would say that it is close call
PSG was luckily vanquished without any chance created by Pogba’s sumptuous pass. He probably scored a few penalties or made chance facing small fish. He will be good when he is playing slow in Spain or Italy.
We scored 3 goals against PSG without actually creating a chance. That’s not a sustainable formula.
The gap is enormous. It will widen even further this summer.
If we get some people in who will take the right decisions, instead of Wood, we could get there in 3 years.
As things stand, with those incompetent amateur high up, we’ll never get there.
As things stand, with those incompetent amateur high up, we’ll never get there.
Good post, I agree with everything you’ve said. I feel like we’re set for years in the wilderness at this point. Anyone expecting a “couple of good signings” and “give it two or three years and we’ll be back up there” is living in cloud cuckoo land quite frankly. The owners haven’t got a clue, Ed Woodward hasn’t got a clue, Ole loves the club bless him but certainly the scale of the job is beyond his capabilities.
These are really bad times and I can only see the situation getting worse before it gets better. The value of the club will have to drop to the point where the Glazers want to sell up, and then we’d better hope whoever buys us is interested in running a successful football club rather than an embarrassing branding vehicle for all Ed’s corporate sponsors. It’s really quite tragic to see our iconic FOOTBALL club in this state.
Racist.
PSG was vanquished by their own errors.
I mean, you guys were light years away from City last season and you're light years away this season too.
Don't let the previous league finishes over the past 3 years fool any fans into thinking you guys were close. Its quite clear, just by the lists of each player from both squads that on paper, you are not close.
Then take into account they have a stable board room who have faith in a world class manager, who give the manager what he wants when he asks for it within reason, a manager who has the respect of his players, and a dressing room which has been plucked of any bad apples (for example, City getting rid of the tailsman who singlehandedly at points won them finals [Yaya Toure].
Don't let the previous league finishes over the past 3 years fool any fans into thinking you guys were close. Its quite clear, just by the lists of each player from both squads that on paper, you are not close.
Then take into account they have a stable board room who have faith in a world class manager, who give the manager what he wants when he asks for it within reason, a manager who has the respect of his players, and a dressing room which has been plucked of any bad apples (for example, City getting rid of the tailsman who singlehandedly at points won them finals [Yaya Toure].