Very good points. The whole idea he is some glorified cheerleader and some smartass from Caf knows better than him irks me. He is working with what he is given, not moaning, not whining and not letting the press have a field day. It has been more than a month since the preseason kicked off and not one bad press about us, when was the last time we went more than a month without a negative press since sir alex retired.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I am worried that the club has left him a bit short in terms of transfers. He may have to unfairly take the blame for Woodward's incompetence if we get off a bad start in the league.
Not having anything of Lukaku's childish antics and apparently having a go at Zidane and Real Madrid for their public Pogba flirting. The rumours from Molde of a very ruthless manager is also gaining traction in Manchester. Good to see.
The problem was us losing to crap lower half teams. This not backing the manager myth that Mourinho propelled made no sense. I will understand if we lost to top 6 teams or can't beat Liverpool and City at least but no excuse not to beat the likes of Sheffield United
I put is down to a lot of luck (wins that were underserved) combined with new manager bounce (something I have seen many times over but not sustained). For the vast majority of the season we were woeful and the new manager bounce does not hide this. After Ole officially took over we were in relegation form actually.
Club has sold him short, we're basically relying on Ole to get the best out of these wasters. I have no faith in these players so surely a smart guy like Ole cannot seriously be happy with what he has.
Frankly, I felt we did that in Jose's first two summers. And in LVG's last one.
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So you dont put that down to luck to? I mean with all the injuries, lack of fitness, games like against Arsenal etc. seem a bit unfair, don’t you think?
Likewise he had a lot of bad luck towards the end of the season. It's strange that this is ignored whenever luck is used as an excuse for his good results.
So did most people. They just pretend otherwise now because it didn’t work out.
That said, this is a poor window for us. We haven’t done the business we needed to do. Not enough of it, anyway.
Anger towards the hierarchy sure. But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fairly assess Ole based on how he coaches this group. If he can coach he will get to keep building his team. If he can’t then it’s onto the next one.
I believe the players weren't fit to play like Ole wanted, sure the bounce might have helped, but with fitter players, i think we'd do a lot better.
Ole signing the contract did not affect the players.
They were simply tired, and i'm sure we'll see a more consistent team this year.
What bad luck are you talking about specifically? Not saying you're wrong necessarily, i just can't think of any off the top of my head. You talking about injuries?
First some xG numbers (not everyone is a fan, but I think they do a good job here) (site = understat.com)
I'll consider the Arsenal loss as the beginning of the bad run, league results only. That splits results into two parts: (10-2-0) and (2-2-5).
For the winning run the team took 8.21 points more, scored 3.36 goals more, and conceded 4.69 goals less, than what the metric deemed as fair. Most can agree that there was an element of luck to this form, and that the points taken weren't entirely fair according to our performances.
For the losing run the team took 6.15 points less, scored 7.76 goals less, and conceded 3.91 goals more, than what the metric deemed as fair. This suggests that the bad luck during this run was on an equal level of the luck in the opposite direction during the earlier good form.
Looking at what happened in the matches, one can recall De Gea conceding a number of questionable goals. It got to the point where some called for Romero to start instead. The equaliser vs Huddersfield also comes to mind where Shaw made an individual error.
Other than that, the finishing was quite poor throughout. Examples include the Arsenal game (14 shots, 4 on target, 0 goals scored), Huddersfield (23 shots, 7 on target, 1 goal), and Cardiff (26 shots, 10 on target, no goal).
The stuff in bold i would never consider bad luck. Mistakes and poor finishing are not bad luck. The Arsenal game is the only game i can think of off the top of my head that we actually played quite well in and lost. Most of the other games towards the end of the season we were just appalling in. Whether that was a lack of fitness, poor discipline or an awful attitude.
I'd just be reluctant to call our very poor form at the end of the season a result of some very bad luck. Just didn't see it that way personally. I think it was more an example of the aforementioned bad attitude. Especially those last two games. Nothing luck based about those. Just hope that it's something that Ole has rectified going into the new season.
Isn't good luck down to mistakes and poor finishing from the opposition? I would still consider those factors as bad luck when evaluating Ole, as he can't do much about them (although you have mentioned bad attitude as a potential reason). It doesn't rule out that the performances were poor as well, I think it was a mix of both.
We won 2 games out of our last 12, lost 8 and drew 2. That's not bad luck by any means!!
Better to not reopen discussions about the abysmal run of last season and just hope it'll go well this one, even if I doubt this but let's hope.
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Well...no. Not really. Mistakes can come in many forms. It can be a result of poor concentration, sloppy play, or could be a result of the other team pressuring you into a mistake. None of those things are down to luck. That's something that's in your hands as player, a team, or a coach.
Bad luck is due to something completely out of your hands. Poor decision by a ref, for example. Or a poor decision by a linesman. A penalty that wasn't given, etc. United didn't suffer from a lot of that during those last few games.
You can't blame people for feeling negative after last season's abominable form and for the majority of players still being here. I'm genuinely excited about the defence being vastly improved by those two additions but I still don't see how we can dominate games with this midfield or where enough goals are coming from. The pressure that's being put on the kids to step up is crazy.
I think we can get 4th place if we make a good start to the season but in the back of my mind i'm expecting some seriously bad results to crop up when squad depth becomes a problem and Pogba loses form. I'd never call for Ole to be sacked because aside from being an absolute legend, we all know why this club is failing to reach it's targets and if it all goes wrong this season then I have to believe that the fans will turn on the board and Ed in particular.
Just hooking this on to your last sentence.
I think whether OGS lasts the season is our key question or whether we expect him to last the season to be more specific.
Because our answer involves a bit of all things. What the expectations for the club are? What the expectations for us are in this particular season & set of circumstances. The comparison/gap between those two sets of expectations.
Then this Glazer thing - they have a decent argument that says they have sunk enough money in to be doing better than this. They have just spent £ 130 M on half of a new defence. Our signings have been pretty consistently dreadful ever since SAF left. Most people (everybody) believes the squad is full of deadwood & some believe there is 1-2 not wanting to pull their full weight, shall we say.
So, the argument seems to be, say, we expect to finish 4th but if we fall horribly short we are going to blame the owners. Because they won't provide a bottomless pit of money when someone wastes their first wedge? Or because they are not the preferred type of sugar daddy owners?
I don't know. Even if we were a rock solid 3rd, I suspect people would still be finding reasons to be unhappy. And people could be asking exactly the same kind of questions.
It’s a really tough season for him, we haven’t addressed enough of the key flaws in the team and the squad is still too bloated with dross who will get picked ahead of the youngsters.
Because of the way last season ended he needs a good start but we have two really difficult games and the first crisis of the season could be pretty much immediate.
There have been positives in preseason but transferring that to games that aren’t friendlies is completely different. I’d he can scrape into the top four he will have done a very good job but personally feel that will be beyond him and the players.
Because of the way last season ended he needs a good start but we have two really difficult games and the first crisis of the season could be pretty much immediate.
There have been positives in preseason but transferring that to games that aren’t friendlies is completely different. I’d he can scrape into the top four he will have done a very good job but personally feel that will be beyond him and the players.
I feel sorry for Ole .His hearth and desire are at the right place but he is taken to the ride by Woodward.
Massive massive job for him.
If he's a good manager, he can lift the team and we get top 4. If not, well this season could be a disaster.
Hopefully he actually plays the youth if/when the experienced players under-perform.
We need 4 points at least from our opening two games.
If he's a good manager, he can lift the team and we get top 4. If not, well this season could be a disaster.
Hopefully he actually plays the youth if/when the experienced players under-perform.
We need 4 points at least from our opening two games.
Ole the dream job could turn into a nightmare. Don't think any of the teams above and below us are going to look at us other than they propose nothing more than they did last year. I think games are sometimes won before you kick a ball and our team frightens no one. Ole needs a big season from players that are yet to deliver......it's a worry.
Feel a bit sorry for him really. He's made it clear he wanted more signings and he's been let down.
Woodward has hung him out to dry
He hasn't been backed properly so if this season is another disaster it is completely on woody and the guzzlers.
Proof? Do you know who and what Solskjaer wanted?
You know Solskjaer and Phelan are both involved in transfer targets, right?
I honestly think if he doesnt sign anyone on deadline day he will be gone by mid October. You can go around accusing people of being negative but that is just lazy. He has more things not going for him than he has going for him. All this pressure on Greenwood is crazy he needs to gradually be implemented in the squad. Our defence is probably one of the tightest in the league now which is a good thing but our midfield if i look at other teams in the league is probably 6th best. We talk about pre season as if it is a stepping stone to great things well there you are surely mistaken, Madrid lost more than they won does that mean they are going to finish 10th? if he does not bring in a midfielder and striker to replace Lukakus goals you can revisit my post in mid October and tell me whether i was being optimistic or pessimistic, i hope im wrong.
You want proof???
You want proof???
https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/first-team
If he does well with this squad he deserves full control over future transfers and contracts.
Based on what Ole said before the summer, regarding the squad and what needed to happen in the summer, I would say hes been hung out to dry yes
Spot on. Signings are more than just football, it's also about the ambition of the club.
This is all on woody and the glazers not Ole.
Just please for the love of God play the youngsters. We aren't making top 4 anyway and they at least are exciting. I just can't take another season with Lingard as our main number 10.
Do you really think Ole did not want any more signings?
Ole wanted and needs more and better players, and so did the managers befor him!
6. place and above, will be a great achivement with this thin squad.
Ole really dug his own grave. Man City and Liverpool are still favourites; Spurs (who made no signings and were in CL final) are adding quality: Arsenal seem like they serious with their acquisitions.
While Ole is here wanting players from the BNP and 10,000 meter runners.
He does realise this 'project' of his will collapse when (not if) he will not get top 4. Pogba will leave because of this and he will attract no world class players as they won't 'want to play for the badge'.
I am angry not necessarily because of the window, but that Ole will in his next press conference say that he is 'happy and satisfied' with squad. This will let Woodward off again! Pep and Jose would not accept that we spent only £60m net with 3 positions needed to be filled
You know at the start I was full of hope as Ole said things like other fans and had that perspective on the club we all had. Yet now he seems like a person who liked conformity.
While Ole is here wanting players from the BNP and 10,000 meter runners.
He does realise this 'project' of his will collapse when (not if) he will not get top 4. Pogba will leave because of this and he will attract no world class players as they won't 'want to play for the badge'.
I am angry not necessarily because of the window, but that Ole will in his next press conference say that he is 'happy and satisfied' with squad. This will let Woodward off again! Pep and Jose would not accept that we spent only £60m net with 3 positions needed to be filled
You know at the start I was full of hope as Ole said things like other fans and had that perspective on the club we all had. Yet now he seems like a person who liked conformity.
We don't get any midfielders in the door i think it will be a impossible job for him. Ed and the rest of the board has failed him.
Remember last season when our midfield got absolutely dominated by Everton and we lost 4-0? Well, it's the same midfield except Fellaini and Herrera are gone.
Ole isn't the issue the board is. I wish him the best of luck but it's not looking good at the moment.
Remember last season when our midfield got absolutely dominated by Everton and we lost 4-0? Well, it's the same midfield except Fellaini and Herrera are gone.
Ole isn't the issue the board is. I wish him the best of luck but it's not looking good at the moment.
It’s frustrating for me because Ole has done just about everything he possibly can to make sure the pre season has been a positive one. Nice football, good results, talk of harmony within the squad.
Yet the club decides to embroil itself in nonsense with Dybala and Eriksen, while selling a player for £70 million on the day of the deadline (even though I want him gone, it just looks awful).
Now we go into the weekend with a black cloud hanging over the club. It’s Ole sat in the presser tomorrow, not Woodward or the Glazers. He gets the can when it all goes wrong.
Yet the club decides to embroil itself in nonsense with Dybala and Eriksen, while selling a player for £70 million on the day of the deadline (even though I want him gone, it just looks awful).
Now we go into the weekend with a black cloud hanging over the club. It’s Ole sat in the presser tomorrow, not Woodward or the Glazers. He gets the can when it all goes wrong.
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