You can't seriously believe that?
As a club we don't generally deal in loans, so for us to loan them both out suggests we want rid of both. We wouldn't be doing it otherwise.
The Deadwoods Assassinated by Babyface
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
As a club we don't generally deal in loans, so for us to loan them both out suggests we want rid of both. We wouldn't be doing it otherwise.
Herrera was never good enough to be a consistent starter at this club, if you want a reminder just rewatch the PSG home fixture over and over. Better yet rewatch half the seasons Herrera featured in, average midfielder with a very good work rate he represents the quality we've had at this club contributing to why we haven't won the league for years.
I agree, if we don't sell in the summer we will probably send them out on loan again.You can't seriously believe that?
As a club we don't generally deal in loans, so for us to loan them both out suggests we want rid of both. We wouldn't be doing it otherwise.
The West Ham away in LVG last season, people should watch that game
If Vic is not good enough after all, and Tuanzebe struggles as well which is a real possibility, we'll not be a very good team with no real solid backup option. Even Maguire might struggle like Smalling did, when not having a reliable partner to play with. Feels like we're making the same mistake twice in this instance. Get a decent player, use him to replace another decent player, keep the deadwood.
However, I am exited about the youth, but I'm also a bit worried there is too many coming through at the same time and they'll have nobody with more experience to guide them through it.
The thing for me now is that they have accepted / allowed Ole to do the clearout, so they have accepted his vision for the club. Now, they have to back him to the hilt. Even if we finish 10th this season Ole has to be allowed to see this project through for the next few years. Its the only way to come out of it.
These are two players we don't need according to Ole. So might as well send them out on loan. If they do well, it will be easier to sell them off.
I don't believe we want them back. But I would be surprised if either player got a permanent move to Inter/Roma.You can't seriously believe that?
As a club we don't generally deal in loans, so for us to loan them both out suggests we want rid of both. We wouldn't be doing it otherwise.
I think we will be trying to move them on again next summer and we might struggle for buyers with both going on loan again.
Absolutely. Changing the manager yet again would bring us right back to where we started.
Only thing is he doesn't replace them.
This just make our squad smaller. Couple of injuries in midfield and attack and we are officially screwed.
This just make our squad smaller. Couple of injuries in midfield and attack and we are officially screwed.
Yeah. If Jose and Ole could get Sanchez playing too. The Deadwood we need to get rid of is EdWood. Loaning out Smalling is crazy.
They'll leave.
Smalling has been the least of our worries the last 6 years. He's played consistently for Fergie, Moyes, LVG & Jose. Won our players player of the year as well only a few years back.
Sanchez, should fair better in a slower, less physically demanding league also.
Jesus, sure lets just say all our players will struggle, be crap and rubbish.
FFS, are you seriously advocating keeping deadwood?
Lindelof was our best CB last season and has done a good job so far. We've no idea how Maguire will fair out, but lets give it a chance. We've 7 senior CB's so.. some of them have to be sold.
Christ there seriously is no pleasing our supporters.
Spent years moaning about deadwood and then the minute they go, get annoyed they are being sold and say its a mistake.
Depends on what's behind the loan.
Did you stop and think that Smalling asked for it because he wants regular 1st team football?
Nah, just easier to blame Ed isn't it?
Beside, who in their right mind buys Jones, Bailly (long term injured) and Rojo (fat and permacrocked).
I'm legit bored of having to say this, if us mere plebs can see how s*it those 3 are, why do you expect qualified and knowledgeable football managers to fork out for them?
Clearing out the wrong players IMO.
Fellaini - should have been replaced
Herrera - should have tried to keep Herrera as a squad player (or starter now)
Valencia - good job here
Lukaku - if he wasn't in the plans, 100% should have been replaced
Sanchez - he seems done; I guess we did what we could here
Smalling - should have been kept as a useful squad player
Others that should have been cleared out before Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku and Smalling: Mata, Matic, Pereira, Jones, Rojo & Darmian.
Fellaini - should have been replaced
Herrera - should have tried to keep Herrera as a squad player (or starter now)
Valencia - good job here
Lukaku - if he wasn't in the plans, 100% should have been replaced
Sanchez - he seems done; I guess we did what we could here
Smalling - should have been kept as a useful squad player
Others that should have been cleared out before Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku and Smalling: Mata, Matic, Pereira, Jones, Rojo & Darmian.
With Herrera he made his mind up the season before while Jose was in charge to move on a free.
Seriously?
Not long ago, Ole was absolutely slaughtered cause of his post Everton comments about many players no longer being here come the new season.
Now its coming to fruition, we've incredibly got supporters still moaning about selling deadwood... there legitimately is zero pleasing some people, all they want to do is find fault in every single last thing.
Fellaini was replaced with Periera.
Herrera with McTominay, besides he refused to commit for 2 seasons pretty much and just wanted money.
Valencia was permanently injured, well past his best and at 34 yrs old...his time was clearly, clearly up.
Lukaku - Overweight at 105kg and a woeful attitude. He didn't fit Ole's needs of a mobile and pacey front line, why keep him?
Sanchez - Agreed
Smalling - I'd love to keep him as a squad player, but it is entirely possible he wanted out to have 1st team football.
I'd love to be rid of Jones, Rojo or Darmian (stories saying he's being sold as well this evening) but reality is the former 2 are not wanted by other clubs.
The fact is that he might have been shit, if that's what you want to call him, but he was still the second best midfielder in our team. There might be loads of them out there, but none of them are at our club at the moment, which is the point that those people are trying to make. And if they're not at the club they can't help us get fourth spot as a first step in our rebuild, can they?
Don't think that Darmian, Rojo, Bailly, Matic and Mata along with Smalling and Sanchez will be here much longer either. Next summer can see most of them leaving permanently. Was looking like the clear out wasnt going to happen, so at least it happened late on. Unfortunately we can't replace anyone, but whatever, give chances to youth, they won't do worse than the others.
Remember when a lot of our Mourinho- sympathizing fans were bringing up that Ole's quote after the Everton game where he said that not many of the players that featured then will be part of the club's future? That quote was used by them to beat Ole with for not sticking to his word.
Today, when we've cleared a huge part of that and may clear some more in the next couple of days, the same fans are coming up with us being too thin (this was bound to happen- it's not a video game that we'll see 12 ins and 12 outs in a window) in depth, or Glazers money saving technique and all that.
Today, when we've cleared a huge part of that and may clear some more in the next couple of days, the same fans are coming up with us being too thin (this was bound to happen- it's not a video game that we'll see 12 ins and 12 outs in a window) in depth, or Glazers money saving technique and all that.
This is great but where the feck were the signings at. Unless we’re making moves in January we seem to be a bit crazy going through an entire season with an ever thinning squad, which will thin even more when more games are played and injuries will be likely.
If Greenwood, Garner, Gomez and Tuanzebe get more minutes on the pitch. He can get rid of 2 or 3 more before deadline day (for Europe). I don't care if this season is a roller-coaster. There is more chance of the younger player's clicking as they know each others game than the throw crap at Wall to see what sticks approach we have had over the past few years.
I love the fire-sale we have. Darmian and Rojo should also be one the move, then I'm happy.
As for Herrera, I wouldn't start him over McTominay. And Herrera was already on his way out when Ole took over. It's not like Ole shipped him out as deadwood.
I'm probably one of very few fans who would like to keep Fellaini as an impact sub or squad player. Yes, we bought him too expensive, and yes, he doesn't play the football I'd like us to play, but he can come one and make an impact. Then again, if we get Zlatan in January for 6 months, we'll be well set for the impact-sub for the rest of our season.
As for Herrera, I wouldn't start him over McTominay. And Herrera was already on his way out when Ole took over. It's not like Ole shipped him out as deadwood.
I'm probably one of very few fans who would like to keep Fellaini as an impact sub or squad player. Yes, we bought him too expensive, and yes, he doesn't play the football I'd like us to play, but he can come one and make an impact. Then again, if we get Zlatan in January for 6 months, we'll be well set for the impact-sub for the rest of our season.
Deadwoods? Well, I wouldn't call them that but surely Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is doing what most of you fans wanted. However I don't really know if it was that smart shipping Sanchez on loan. I know he wasn't a hit but I believe it was due Jose Mourinhos tactics. I wish him luck and I hope he gets back to his old.
Where does that leave us? A more tiny squad upfront. Short term we are going to suffer (if our kids don't step up) but looking at long term I think it can actully be a good thing. Maybe we could get Llorente on free (great sub)? Or someone else? Or do we now go with Gomes and Chong?
Let's see out squad.
DeGea, Romero, Grant
WanBissaka, Darmian, Mensah, Dalot
Lindelöf, Bailly, Tuanzebe
Maguire, Jones, (Smaling)
Shaw, Young, Rojo
McTominay, Garner
Pogba, Matic
Pereira, Fred
Lingard, James, Greenwood
Martial, Gomes
Rashford, Mata
While our defense is stacked with lot of players the other parts of our team are very thin. I hope that we can manage to go healty through the season. We could also put Young and Dalot further up on the pitch, if forced, but as whole we are thin upfront. Solskjaer and Ed are really changing our team. The only question is, is it for good and are there to much changes at same time? Time will tell and I still have that good feeling.
Where does that leave us? A more tiny squad upfront. Short term we are going to suffer (if our kids don't step up) but looking at long term I think it can actully be a good thing. Maybe we could get Llorente on free (great sub)? Or someone else? Or do we now go with Gomes and Chong?
Let's see out squad.
DeGea, Romero, Grant
WanBissaka, Darmian, Mensah, Dalot
Lindelöf, Bailly, Tuanzebe
Maguire, Jones, (Smaling)
Shaw, Young, Rojo
McTominay, Garner
Pogba, Matic
Pereira, Fred
Lingard, James, Greenwood
Martial, Gomes
Rashford, Mata
While our defense is stacked with lot of players the other parts of our team are very thin. I hope that we can manage to go healty through the season. We could also put Young and Dalot further up on the pitch, if forced, but as whole we are thin upfront. Solskjaer and Ed are really changing our team. The only question is, is it for good and are there to much changes at same time? Time will tell and I still have that good feeling.
You sort of hit a bullseye here yeah
Fellaini
Herrera
Valencia
Lukaku
Sanchez
Smalling
Herrera was pretty much replaced by Fred who I think will end up somewhat the same player, he had issues adjusting but towards the end of the season was showing signs of some adjustment. Would have preferred if he stayed though
Valencia was replaced
Lukaku wasnt replaced directly but by bringing in James you now get to move Rashford or Martial up front instead of playing there with Greenwood being in the mix too
Smalling was replaced by Maguire, even if he wasnt we were bloated there I think we have 1 or two more to let go yet (Rojo and maybe Jones down the line)
Fellaini wasnt directly replaced but McTominay came in as a new option. We need to sign a DM to replace Matic who is the player McTominay has really replaced at the moment
Sanchez was probably replaced by Pereira but thats not exactly a like for like either. But since its replacing a player who barely played who cares
Herrera
Valencia
Lukaku
Sanchez
Smalling
Herrera was pretty much replaced by Fred who I think will end up somewhat the same player, he had issues adjusting but towards the end of the season was showing signs of some adjustment. Would have preferred if he stayed though
Valencia was replaced
Lukaku wasnt replaced directly but by bringing in James you now get to move Rashford or Martial up front instead of playing there with Greenwood being in the mix too
Smalling was replaced by Maguire, even if he wasnt we were bloated there I think we have 1 or two more to let go yet (Rojo and maybe Jones down the line)
Fellaini wasnt directly replaced but McTominay came in as a new option. We need to sign a DM to replace Matic who is the player McTominay has really replaced at the moment
Sanchez was probably replaced by Pereira but thats not exactly a like for like either. But since its replacing a player who barely played who cares
Yep, might be an usually busy January for us.
Out of all the defenders to be turfed out though, I’m surprised it’s Smalling. He’s definitely better than Rojo and arguably better than Jones and Bailly. That said, he’s a very limited footballer for a top tier modern premier league side.
He's definitely getting rid of deadwood but, unfortunately he's a couple a cracked branches away from running out of wood altogether.
this is a good read on the Sanchez fiasco. https://www.football365.com/news/sanchez-farce-should-prompt-man-utd-inquests-not-lols
What I think really destroyed his career was the sheer # of games he played.
"His appearance statistics certainly support that. At 30, Sanchez has taken part in over 720 senior games. For the sake of context, when Wayne Rooney left Manchester United to join Everton – a moment which occurred long after his decline had begun and burn-out had been diagnosed – he had played in somewhere within the region of 680 games.
Between 2014 and 2017, internationals included, Sanchez appeared 184 times for club and country."
A player like Sanchez who likely played hurt a lot, had to deal with very long flights between England and South America, and was dependent on pace and physicality should have raised a lot of red flags. You have to wonder why these issues weren't examined in depth before the signing and before the astronomical wages/contract were signed.
What I think really destroyed his career was the sheer # of games he played.
"His appearance statistics certainly support that. At 30, Sanchez has taken part in over 720 senior games. For the sake of context, when Wayne Rooney left Manchester United to join Everton – a moment which occurred long after his decline had begun and burn-out had been diagnosed – he had played in somewhere within the region of 680 games.
Between 2014 and 2017, internationals included, Sanchez appeared 184 times for club and country."
A player like Sanchez who likely played hurt a lot, had to deal with very long flights between England and South America, and was dependent on pace and physicality should have raised a lot of red flags. You have to wonder why these issues weren't examined in depth before the signing and before the astronomical wages/contract were signed.
Last couple of years or even more I'm pretty sure I have had a list in my mind consisting of Jones, Fellaini, Darmian, Rojo, Young, and more recently adding Shaw, Lingard, Matic, Lukaku, Bailly. Now we're not in desperate need to sell all of them but certainly a few of those should have been gone a long while ago but they are still here, while others should have been replaced by signings by now and thereby phased out. Thing is, we are phasing some people out and we have no other players to successfully make us stronger in their position. Replacing good players with good players, then keeping a lot of the deadwood to back them up?
Like maybe if Sanchez was English he would be afforded more time while Lingard would be considered deadwood? Their wages in context with their contribution is probably similar, if we assume that Sanchez would have done a bit more this season. So it is not inconceivable to propose we keep a player like Sanchez based on previous quality while Lingard gets sold. Lingard would probably have more interested parties too?
I'm not saying all our players will struggle, but it is certainly unfair to bank on Tuanzebe making it like you would have to just after realising that Lindelof might not be good enough after all. If he returns to his initial form he had when he came to the club, which seems likely this season, then you have to bank on Tuanzebe for my point to be wrong. There is more hope than realism somewhere in there, and I'm just pointing that out. However, I think this is going to be a really exiting season for us because we'll have to trust the kids a lot. I just hope people don't go overboard in criticising the players and Ole this season because we might not even get in the top 10 if we're really unlucky. Best case scenario is something like Matic being rejuvenated and save our season by just securing top 4. That is not a particularly good prospect for our club.
In your scenario, getting rid of Young and Lingard has no benefit to us. Only to reduce our options needlessly so you don't have to see them on the pitch.
Young is captain for a reason. He's been a model professional whilst at United and has much to teach younger players in his senior role. He'll be gone at the end of the season.
I have no doubt Lingard will be displaced this season because he inst good enough - most likely by Gomes. But as a 2nd or 3rd choice, he's worth keeping around.
Slick.....Western?
Herrera is a massive loss. Won't hesitate to celebrate the loss of the rest.
I agree.
Herrera was also massive because we are unable to bring similar or better quality in.
I am not wrong, Herrera is not a fantastic player, he does a job and will not be the reason we are doing well or not. There are other players out there that can do the job.
The reason fans are moaning is because another CM was not signed. I too am frustrated at that but couldn't care less about Herrera leaving. If we signed 1 or 2 CM's no one would mention Herrera.
Being stuck in a defensive team and a team that is not going anywhere, it is difficult to produce numbers. We are relying on him which is the biggest worry.
Yes, that is correct if this season he doesnt produce I will say he is deadwood that doesn't deserve the 200k a week.
Strange. You were so eager for me to provide stats you claimed I had made up, to justify my viewpoint. Now I've done that, and thrown in comparisons to when he was in the team and out of it last season, and you're avoiding discussion about it entirely. So you're not going to comment? You asked for stats to substantiate what I said and you've got them.
No, the reason why people are discussing Herrera is because people are attempting to call him deadwood, despite a top European team snapping him up and despite the club attempting to keep him. A former player of the year, wanted by at least 2 top European clubs (make what you will of the other links), whose impact is supported by very impressive statistics, is apparently not very good. Makes sense.
You were only yesterday arguing that unless the club shows significant improvement this season then it shows Herrera's input wasn't important. Make your mind up. You're either going to accept the impact of players around them or not.Is OLE responsible for these departures? I dont think so.
Only a few weeks ago he was praising Smalling's experience and longeivity at the club, telling Rojo he was part of his plans, and saying Sanchez is still a great talent and will play lots of games.
TBH Ole is a puppet for those pulling the strings behind the scenes and making a very bad job of it. It is embarassing tbh.
Our only hope is this tremendous batch of young players in under 18's/under 23's who play great football and offer lots of promise.
Ole is responsible for putting Tuanzebe on the bench and making Smalling surplus to requirements so that he could leave.
If Ole had come out and said "they're all shit", then who would've bought them? Do you really think we would've got £70m for Lukaku if Ole had come out, been honest and said "to be fair mate, the lad can't trap the ball, he's fat and a poor influence in the dressing room"?
That's 6 players in less then one year and Darmian might go too this window. It's a great job i have to say. By this time next year we might have a rejuvenated squad. I expect Jones and Matic to be next in line plus Young not being offered a new contract. We are looking at a major summer next year with a number of expensive ins i think.