We are brutal at the moment for sure, but I wouldn't say any of Spurs, Chelsea or Arsenal are much better the now. All 4 teams have big issues going forward.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I love Ole and you only have to look through my posts to see how much I think of him as a manager, but he can't continue with Matic as the first pick off the bench or from the start when the latter is injured. His legs were gone at the end of his first season, let alone the second and now his third. Also, Mata: again, I love the guy but his legs are gone. He's done amazing to get to where he has done in light of his physical limitations, but he's finished his race.
In an ideal world, we'd have replaced both with some stellar signings but as it is, our alternatives are a Fred who has question marks over him, and a Lingard who's well, Lingard... And a Gomes who has little to no first team experience.
I understand his reasons for starting them against Leicester, and even yesterday, but after Matic started two games in 6 days, he really should have been rotated out - especially since Fred outperformed him in both of those games; and after Lingard was back fit, he should have started ahead of Mata.
He's not doing himself any favours with continuing down this road. They're both done.
In an ideal world, we'd have replaced both with some stellar signings but as it is, our alternatives are a Fred who has question marks over him, and a Lingard who's well, Lingard... And a Gomes who has little to no first team experience.
I understand his reasons for starting them against Leicester, and even yesterday, but after Matic started two games in 6 days, he really should have been rotated out - especially since Fred outperformed him in both of those games; and after Lingard was back fit, he should have started ahead of Mata.
He's not doing himself any favours with continuing down this road. They're both done.
Not much better, but certainly better. Chelsea actually starting to look like a decent side.
Is he going to be our worst manager?
Not sure I agree with that. Good in attack, but conceding far too many goals and don't look very structured at all in defending. Yes, they don't have their best defender, but they certainly have defensive issues worse than us I would argue. Both goals we conceded yesterday I would argue were not the fault of the defence.
He's not lost the fans and likely never will. Their ire will be directed at the board for not backing him in the summer.Ole is not gonna last here, the general atmosphere around the club is too negative. The board won't have the patience I believe he'll lose the fans completely soon. Who knows, if he is given 5 years to build his team he might build a good side, but no way he'll be given that much time.
I am all for the long term goals,l and planning for the future, but you can't completely ignore the present. Going into the season with a squad this thin is suicidal and it's all on Ole. Feck, this club is a mess right now.
The problem is Ole is unable to argue with Woodward or make any requests (to sign players, for example): contrary to more seasoned managers, Solskjaer is still a nobody as a manager, and with his managerial track record he will find it hard to get another job
Another problem is his managerial ability: from the looks of it (and though I am no expert, but I watch football for more than 25 years so understand something), he isn’t strong in making tactical decisions, selecting players, rectifying own mistakes or working on certain areas of gameplay.
So, to force Woodward to sign certain players is one thing, but to consistently play weak old players despite their terrifying performances is another. Then, when did we score a goal from a set piece for the last time? It’s a very good indicator of managerial work in training - and we are probably the worst in the league in this regard.
All the above combined leads to thinking that OGS may be not a good enough manager
Another problem is his managerial ability: from the looks of it (and though I am no expert, but I watch football for more than 25 years so understand something), he isn’t strong in making tactical decisions, selecting players, rectifying own mistakes or working on certain areas of gameplay.
So, to force Woodward to sign certain players is one thing, but to consistently play weak old players despite their terrifying performances is another. Then, when did we score a goal from a set piece for the last time? It’s a very good indicator of managerial work in training - and we are probably the worst in the league in this regard.
All the above combined leads to thinking that OGS may be not a good enough manager
All four teams have had much tougher fixtures than us. That’s the real killer. We’ve been as shit as this despite (what should be) piss easy fixtures. God help us when we finally play a really tough opponent.
The worst thing about this situation is that we are on the right path for the first time but with a manager who can’t manage football matches and is literally inept on the most basic of levels when it comes to tactics.
This start to the season would be understandable and forgivable if it wasn’t obvious that we’re going to have to start all over again in January and probably end up going in the wrong direction again. There’s no progress to hope for under him, this is as good as it gets.
It’s not a crime to lose to West Ham. The crime is that it is to be expected with Ole in charge.
He’ll leave the club having helped it to rediscover itself but he shouldn’t be the man in the dugout.
This start to the season would be understandable and forgivable if it wasn’t obvious that we’re going to have to start all over again in January and probably end up going in the wrong direction again. There’s no progress to hope for under him, this is as good as it gets.
It’s not a crime to lose to West Ham. The crime is that it is to be expected with Ole in charge.
He’ll leave the club having helped it to rediscover itself but he shouldn’t be the man in the dugout.
I’m really torn on what to blame Ole for at the moment.
For me the lack of transfer activity over the last two summers has been the biggest killer. We should have signed about 7 or 8 established first team players but instead we got 3 (one being Fred who by all accounts is useless).
You would imagine that a lot of this is Ed’s fault but when I saw the team sheet against Cardiff last season (which was a clear indication of our plans for the team) I was really worried about the vision for the club going forward.
Not investing for two summers running has brought us to mid table level.
For me the lack of transfer activity over the last two summers has been the biggest killer. We should have signed about 7 or 8 established first team players but instead we got 3 (one being Fred who by all accounts is useless).
You would imagine that a lot of this is Ed’s fault but when I saw the team sheet against Cardiff last season (which was a clear indication of our plans for the team) I was really worried about the vision for the club going forward.
Not investing for two summers running has brought us to mid table level.
They seem much more organised than us, and in that environment it's much easier to identify the issue and address it. For example you said they don't look as good in defense, and that their best defender is absent, so that means they can address that part of the team in the coming transfer window. Don't forget they were unable to make any purchases this summer.
Whilst we on the other hand look disjointed altogether. We seem clueless and disorganised. We invested in defense, but we're still leaking in goals, our MF is shambolic and attack lacks any decent service, albeit it were not taking some of the chances we get.
They had Kante out and also Rudiger for most of the season. No suprise they didnt look good on defense. They looked better yesterday and are improving week on week. They look like a decent side to me
I really wonder what the players are doing in training? Ash getting the long ball to Rashy?
We don't seem to practice any set pieces etc. I have lost all hope now. If we get into the top 6 it may be a good season.
We don't seem to practice any set pieces etc. I have lost all hope now. If we get into the top 6 it may be a good season.
As proven he is a quite lazy, for me does not stretch the back four enough with runs, he is alright with his back to goal, no where near world class, not in the class of Firmino, Aguero, Kane etc. Yes he is clinical but for me he does not have the instinct of a number 9, Jose/Ole have both said he does not score enough scruffy goals, fox in the box type goals they are always worldies.
Why IMO is he best suited to the left wing.
At his best when running at defenders;
Can cut in from the left and get you 12/15 goals a season
can go wide and put a ball in, has tricks, can beat players, which opens up space/chances for a proper number nine in the box;
The way we play he will see far more of the ball from the left, he is creative, you stick him up front with our midfield who is picking him out? For me when he plays up top he always seems very isolated and pretty easy to play against.
Most of his goals have come from him being a left winger/inside forward, am I wrong?
For me that is by far and away his best position, at the minute at United, he is our best no 9, which is saying something and shows exactly how short we are.
Agreed they have harder fixtures and we should have done better. But, again, a missed penalty in the Wolves game, one missed in the Palace game, chances going begging in the Southampton game and even yesterday, there was the Mata chance and the Maguire chance that should be going in. We aren't very good at the moment, but it's small margins between winning games and ending up with what we have. In a weird way, I think we might actually do better against better sides, and when players come back from injury I think we will do better too.
Yes, they were unable to make purchases and their best defender is missing. However, I still don't think they look great in defence, as in I'm not seeing what Lampard is trying to do with making them better. They look poor from set-pieces and when attackers go direct at them, ergo I don't think they look great in defence. Rudiger or a new signing might sort that, but I'm not so sure.
Agreed, we are leaking goals but I honestly think that is a result of our midfield. Yesterday, Yarmalenko literally runs away from Pereira and then later in the move Matic looks at him and neither actually track him into the box. That is symptomatic of the issues in midfield, no one taking responsibility or being invested in the defensive side of the game. The defence looks better, but they can't sort everything until the players at the base of the midfield are improved upon.
Fair enough, I respect your opinion.
I'm afraid that he already is.
I think he's too much of a gamble to back longer term - judgement is clouded by the fact he's a club legend but he's had no top level managerial experience. People point to managers like Zidane or Pep as examples of when former players come in but they are a rarity and, in both cases, had been under scrutiny already as youth team or reserve managers. Ole was sacked at Cardiff and had a decent first stint at Molde but his resume is probably weaker than all other PL managers.
He is, from the outside looking in, someone who wants to be buddies with the players and I don't think he's got the ability to inspire/command respect - even in that press conference he was doing his awkward jokey style ('feet not foot haha') and refused to simply say that we were dogshit. I like a manager who defends players when it's needed but it's equally important to be honest about where our expectations are and I think his idea of 'not being that far away' is deluded.
Chelsea (W), Wolves (D), Palace (L), Soton (D), Leicester (W), WHUM (L) is truly atrocious, especially when you factor in how we've played in those games. And that's forgetting the dire run of form post PSG last year.
He is, from the outside looking in, someone who wants to be buddies with the players and I don't think he's got the ability to inspire/command respect - even in that press conference he was doing his awkward jokey style ('feet not foot haha') and refused to simply say that we were dogshit. I like a manager who defends players when it's needed but it's equally important to be honest about where our expectations are and I think his idea of 'not being that far away' is deluded.
Chelsea (W), Wolves (D), Palace (L), Soton (D), Leicester (W), WHUM (L) is truly atrocious, especially when you factor in how we've played in those games. And that's forgetting the dire run of form post PSG last year.
The problem with that kind of tweet is that even if you accept the premise, it was Ole's choice not to replace Lukaku, what sort of 'choice' was given to him is completely unknown.
For example, if Ole met Ed in June to discuss the Lukaku situation and chose at that point that selling Lukaku was fine and no replacement was needed, then I would agree with your analysis.
However, if his choice was made early August and came down to a choice between signing off the transfer to Inter or blocking it and working with an unhappy Lukaku all season then that's different all together.
Similarly, 'choosing not to replace Lukaku' may also mean Ole turned down Llorente or Andy Carroll on a free after our window closed.
Ultimately we don't know the inner workings of squad management, contract negotiations and transfers at United. Sometimes it feels like they don't even know who does what themselves. You might be correct in assigning Ole a slice of the blame for being the manager during a period where we gutted our squad and didn't replace key positions, but there's owners, a board and an executive vice chairman that presided over not only this poor summer but also the previous 7 poor summers too. I would suggest that most of the blame for the state of the squad needs to be directed to them and not to whichever manager happens to be the poor fecker in the impossible seat at the time.
Ole definitely needs to remain for a full season at the club at the very least. I'd give him two full seasons honestly. But if someone like Erik ten Hag or Nagelsmann or similar becomes available and wants to join Man Utd next summer, I would also find it hard to turn these people down.
if they are not good we cant back them
We need to sack him while our rivals are as hopeless as we are. Use the momentum with the new manager to get us on a run till the Jan window and then bring in reinforcements. Signing up Ole in March didn't make sense then and it looks even more stupid now. The board just caught up with the euphoria and feel good factor of Ole coming in and getting us some wins instead of sticking to the decision of taking a final call in the summer.
This is the biggest thing for me. Granted we don't want to restart a rebuild, but why would we bother to back Ole in the market going forward if we are far from convinced that he's the right man?
The issue is, if you didn't think they were good why did you hire them and give them a 3 year deal...
Personally I don't think he is the right man, but if the club don't 6 months after giving him a 3 year deal then.... Its very similar to the Jose situation, same mistakes being made
A lot of blame can't be aimed at Ole, as it's clear the problems extend far beyond the manager.
However, for me it's also plain as day that he's out of his depth.
However, for me it's also plain as day that he's out of his depth.
Perhaps the club feels Ole has a keen eye in the transfer market, adding weight to the theory that the DoF role is his.
Exactly. If we had a proper scouting network, we'd be identifying top quality players before they become worth £70m or more. A lot of other teams around Europe seem to find these diamonds on the regular. Longstaff is not good. Rice is better but not worth what's being quoted. It's lazy scouting - focusing solely on Brits playing in the PL, it narrows down the talent pool to a tiny puddle meaning no real scouting is needed.
I've said this several times.
Ole the player was accustomed to being surrounded by class. Ole the manager has NEVER, EVER worked with a single world-class player - far from it, he's never even worked with a single CL calibre player prior to coming here. His eye for talent as a manager is restricted to Cardiff and Molde. There's a frighteningly real chance that he honestly thinks these players are good enough, because they're better than what he's worked with previously.
This is a bit more than a poor run of matches. fecking hell we haven't won away since PSG last season. Out of 19 games played we've lost something like 10 of them. When does in your opinion this become an issue not a poor run as you say?
Arsenal, City won so you didn't read their forum. Chelsea played excellent against the league leaders and CL champions, even deserved a draw imo (Yes I watched the game), so their fans are proud of their effort, I would be. That leaves Tottenham that lost away to Leicester. The other teams are irrelevant to compare to since they don't even come close to the expectations we have as a club. So Spurs fans weren't too dissapointed with a loss away to Leicester I'm guessing? You call posters idiots left and right but the only thing you are doing is make yourself look like one. I agree there are over-reactions on here but it's a forum where people express opinions. You don't like those opinions, discuss and present your side of the argument, try to prove them wrong. Don't just call them idiots, you idiot.
Yes, the board are clueless. Can't argue there.
I'm not sold on the DoF theory. Shipping some key players and not replacing them in some capacity is a suicidal move that a competent DoF would never endorse.
That coincides with our worst team ever also.
Klopps first 2 seasons at Liverpool you could say they sacrificed a little on results
Peps first season at City too
Poch first season at Spurs too
What was important was for the team to get familiar with the tactical setup and to continue with the process (Peps playing out from the back)
Ultimately though you are after results but they do not come over night
Agree with your post in general though
I'm consistent man, I said give Ole time like we did for other managers. I'm not even on 'Ole out' group, I just said I have lost hope on the manager but want him to turn it around.Is that you or somebody hacked your account?
Great post though. I agree 100%
Anyways end of the day, everyone (except few trolls) wants what's best for the club. People have different patience levels and express their view in different ways.
Let's be honest here, neither Lukaku or Sanchez were key players in any sense of the word. One was overweight and wanted out, the other one was quite possibly the worst transfer in the clubs history.
I also believe Ole expected Woody to secure more incoming players than he did, despite the "I'm happy with the squad" comment.
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I fully agree with Keane here.
The players we have at the club, by and large, are nowhere near good enough. It's just that simple.
Can say what you like about Ole, and even Jose, but the board let them both down. It's a never-ending theme.
Lukaku may not have been the right long term fit but he was vital to our team. 27 goals and 19 goals in the 2 seasons he was here, effectively unreplaced with the view "we have Rashy and Anthony". That is not good forward thinking by a fan let alone a manager who we are bizzarly tipping for DoF. Whether you like him or hate him, Lukaku equalled goals for us. You shipped that then you need to fecking replace it with someone. Even if it's a stop gap. Turfing out deadwood is one thing but it has to be done I'm parallel with keeping competitive in top 4.
And don't get me started on his lack of addressing of a right wing vacuum or not replacing Herrera and Fellaini with one single midfielder. No DoF would endorse that.
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