Unlikely. You could see early on what Klopp was trying to achieve, and we'd all seen it work the past at Dortmund. He had a history of success to back up his plan. Ole has neither.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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The delusion is strong with this one, anybody who thinks Woodward & co wanted the squad rebuilt is living in bizarro land.Woodward and the Glazers felt the squad that came 2nd was just fine, that's why they didn't give Jose any more money.
OGS early results confirmed Woodward and the Glazers beliefs that the squad was good enough for a top-four place, hence the rush to appoint Ole as manager.
yes, because Klopp came to Liverpool as an unknown quantity from a fishermen league, right?
also, read:
Ole started with the defense and not the attack, and if you look it up, we are in the very top of the prem of teams with least chances conceded. Also, with the exception of West Ham and Leicester, we were not crap at all in the prem. We were actually ok and should have won most of the games were it not for horrific finishing and wonder goals against.
This. Some people still weirdly aren’t getting it, if we’re close to relegation come next month, he is gone. It’s one thing to have us mid table, but an entirely other thing to have Manchester United fighting relegation. Are people really this stupid?
The defense improved because we signed 2 of the best defenders in the league who costed loads of money. What's that related to the complete absence of a coherent attacking game plan and non existent style on the pitch whenever we have possession of the ball? Klopp's Liverpool immediately showed a clear change in style of play once he got the job after Rodgers.
Are you telling me we won't see a coherent game play up front till we splash the cash on some of the best attackers in the league like we did with the defense?
When's the last time Ole was pitch-side and yelling at his players?
No, he came as a world class manager and still had an abysmal season and mediocre seasons after until he got the players he wanted and had enough time to implement his play style. If you can have as much patience with mediocrity from a WC manager, then why would you sack a lesser manager in having less time and less of his players bought?
It makes no sense.
The players we have in mid and attack have let down 2 established winning managers in LVG and Mourinho, why do we expect Ole to turn them in to gold? They are shete under wc managers they are shete now. Give Ole, or any manager, new mids and forwards and if the team is still crap i'll be the first to say "out". Right now, i see what i've already known for 2-3 years, our mid and attack is made of crap.
He's always been too passive and just bland for my personal taste. He just doesn't really show any great emotion or character, especially on the sideline.
This is all bullsh** about having to give a manager 4/5 windows. Ole has been here 8 months and apart from different excuses from not winning nothing has changed. We are still playing the boring football with no shots on goal.
you are taking the piss
He shouts from the touchline a few times. Seen him do it a lot. Problem is more he doesn't know what he's doing.
That's like asking if we'd be as worried about Cristiano going 8 games without a goal or Akinbiyi going 8 without a goal. Their track records are what gives you more patience.
Klopp had credit in the bank because he was a proven talent. Ole has proven nothing so doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as a guy who was heralded as one of the best managers in the world.
If Liverpool sacked Klopp, someone else decent would have hired him. If we sack Ole he's going back to Norway and possibly never leaving.
The fact that the Ole in crowd have to bend reality and come up with ridiculous scenarios or reasons shows all you need to know.
He doesn't want to upset the players.
For a side that has won 5 in 22, it's not enough shouting for me. Id have no issue if things were fine. They're not and I don't see him raging.
Mr Baggins needs to get mad
I'm telling you to re watch the last 2 or 3 seasons under different managers with different ideas and you will see the same thing. The players can't do it. I would also say that our attack, as mediocre as it is, under Ole when the squad is fit, we are having a lot more shots and chances then under Mourinho. If some people chose to ignore that we had a zilion chances and we conceded wonder goals from Neves or headers from 2m tall Lindergard and from that conclude that it's about tactics then so be it. But it's not a problem of tactics. It's the players.
I've seen him do that too. I don't know what he shouts, but it's probably something in the region of "Well played lads! Get in! Give the ball to Giggsy on the wing!"
This is demonstrably not true. He was playing great attacking football by the end of his first half season, reaching the Europa League final by beating his old Dortmund side 4-3 with 3 late goals (so, basically the same exact high intensity "style" that saw them beat Barca in the Semi last year) and after 10 months all of Liverpool was near unanimously delighted with him. You can even go back and search for oppo fans posts on here if you like. No matter how much we ridiculed them for not winning anything, they all pretty much said variations on "yeah, but we're enjoying it"....Now they're winning things too. Whilst we are very much not enjoying it. At all....
It's baffling to me that people still openly try and pretend the situations are even somewhat similar.
Now we talk about these players being crap again? Let me remind you that Jose and LVG got sacked because they deemed failure to get this almost very same team that was branded as a top 4 quality team playing attacking football. The players was good but manager was not. They got sacked. Now suddenly the players are crap even the manager is crap himself? Talk about making sense ey?
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You can blame the players all you like but it is not like we have had the same players from 3 years ago?
AWB, Maguire, James are all new players
Greendwood, Tuanzebe, Gomes have all come into the team this year really
So to say it is the players is not 100% correct, the coaching is poor.
The first reason why they are not similar is that those opinions on Klopp that you talk about are after a full season. We are in Ole's first season, in Octobre, judging.
I stand by what i say that if Klopp was the manager and we finished 8th, most of us would have said "flopp" "naive" get rid. Same things i'm reading now but not after a full season but 2 months.
Lots of dislikes on the videos for the press conferences yesterday.
I keep seeing the reason for not sacking Ole as being 'What's the point?' and in some ways I can understand as that's exactly how I feel about the club at the moment. It's also a poisonous attitude that's spread throughout the club, and filtered its way down from the owners through to the playing staff, coaches and pretty much anyone employed by the club and to the fans. Based on results alone, and the fact that we are going backwards with no sign of a glimmer of improvement or plan, I would sack him tomorrow. The thing that scares me most though is that I don't trust the people in charge to make the next appointment the right one.
It's quite alarming the amount of wrong decisions we have made again and again in the 7 years since Fergie left.
We shouldn't have hired Moyes, it was clear he wasn't first choice anyway and as a result allowed a then fired up Mourinho and a talented Guardiola go to our rivals
We allowed Moyes to clear out the existing coaching staff and replaced them with his stooges
We leaked to the press that 'we can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of'
We then proceeded to make a mess of Moyes' first transfer window
We sacked Moyes through the press
We signed a past it and/or crocked Bastian & Falcao
We signed Di Maria for a record fee who didn't even want to come in the first place
We allowed Klopp go to our rivals
We eventually sacked LVG 5 minutes after winning us a trophy, he also found out via the media
We hired Jose the season after he had a total meltdown
We didn't back Jose in his final season which resulted in him sabotaging the pre-season and everything that followed. What's the point in keeping a manager if you aren't going to back him?
We refused to sign Maguire only to end up paying more for him a season later anyway
We signed Sanchez just so we could win a pissing contest with City. The same for Fred too
We brought in Ole who has no experience at this level and is only here because he used to play for us
We leaked to the press that we were recruiting a DOF, two years later we still don't have one
We appointed Ole as full-time manager before seeing how he would deal with bad results. We're still dealing them 6 months later.
We sold our only proper striker and didn't replace him
We let our only experienced midfielder who still wanted to play for us leave and didn't replace him
We rewarded players that should have been gone years ago with new long contracts
And somehow during all of that time we didn't sign a single proper RW. Looking at all that you can see why people think what's the point, because it will inevitably turn to shit anyway no matter what we decide. Old Trafford is crumbling now, it's depressing to see the state it is in due to being neglected. Funnily enough beer prices rise every year though.
If you want a winning mentality it starts from the top and that's the same with any business. The second you rest on your laurels and think everything will be rosy forever, you're fecked. We used to be the best at everything. The best manager, best team, best stadium, best training facilities. Now we're the best at nothing.
It's quite alarming the amount of wrong decisions we have made again and again in the 7 years since Fergie left.
We shouldn't have hired Moyes, it was clear he wasn't first choice anyway and as a result allowed a then fired up Mourinho and a talented Guardiola go to our rivals
We allowed Moyes to clear out the existing coaching staff and replaced them with his stooges
We leaked to the press that 'we can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of'
We then proceeded to make a mess of Moyes' first transfer window
We sacked Moyes through the press
We signed a past it and/or crocked Bastian & Falcao
We signed Di Maria for a record fee who didn't even want to come in the first place
We allowed Klopp go to our rivals
We eventually sacked LVG 5 minutes after winning us a trophy, he also found out via the media
We hired Jose the season after he had a total meltdown
We didn't back Jose in his final season which resulted in him sabotaging the pre-season and everything that followed. What's the point in keeping a manager if you aren't going to back him?
We refused to sign Maguire only to end up paying more for him a season later anyway
We signed Sanchez just so we could win a pissing contest with City. The same for Fred too
We brought in Ole who has no experience at this level and is only here because he used to play for us
We leaked to the press that we were recruiting a DOF, two years later we still don't have one
We appointed Ole as full-time manager before seeing how he would deal with bad results. We're still dealing them 6 months later.
We sold our only proper striker and didn't replace him
We let our only experienced midfielder who still wanted to play for us leave and didn't replace him
We rewarded players that should have been gone years ago with new long contracts
And somehow during all of that time we didn't sign a single proper RW. Looking at all that you can see why people think what's the point, because it will inevitably turn to shit anyway no matter what we decide. Old Trafford is crumbling now, it's depressing to see the state it is in due to being neglected. Funnily enough beer prices rise every year though.
If you want a winning mentality it starts from the top and that's the same with any business. The second you rest on your laurels and think everything will be rosy forever, you're fecked. We used to be the best at everything. The best manager, best team, best stadium, best training facilities. Now we're the best at nothing.
So then we go back to why he let go of the only decent midfielder we had bar Pogba, the only decent striker we had in Lukaku and a proven PL attacker in Sanchez and brought in zero replacements? Nobody is saying most of our players aren’t shite, this forum all summer was crying out for more clearly needed reinforcements. But to say it’s not about dreadful tactics either is completely ignoring a whole other realm of issues with Ole and his dire coaching staff. We aren’t doing anything in the pitch that remotely resembles sane tactics. Worse teams are able to outclass us, even Newcastle will have a go on Sunday. This is the issue with the Ole in crowd, they’re only looking at one or two faults and completely ignoring the huge chunk. Nobody is saying our players aren’t shite but our current manager is even worse, get that straight.
Few people at the game sat behind him, said he looked desperate on the touchline, flapping his arms around. It wasnt all captured on the tv. Apparantely he was changing players around non stop trying to get something to work. There was one moment when Gomes was near the tocuhline and was seen talking to Carrick who just shrugged his shoulders.
Fecking clueless. It's Moyes reincarnation.
I’m sorry but you are spouting some absolute bollocks.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_created?se=274
We are just above relegation zone when it comes to big chances created this year and most likely given couple of games more we will end up there.
No they weren't. Klopp arrived in October 2015 (so, basically around now season wise) and had them playing well enough - and in a similar enough style to the way they beat Barca last season - by April 2016 (when they beat Dortmund 4-3 on route to the Europa League Final) with an inherited squad. That is almost half the time Ole's had.
It's perfectly fair to judge Ole's "style" by now. The problem is, there isn't one.
If two good managers are sacked because the players are good and yet another manager has the same results with them, what is the logical conclusion? Is Mourinho a crap manager? Does LVG not know how to play attacking football? It's obviously the players imo. And it's not like is't a secred or something that Lingard, Mata, Matic etc are crap.
AWB and Maguire have made a massive difference if you look at how few chances we concede compared to previous seasons (even to when we came 2d). The rest are a work in progress as you say.
...and then,like Jose the summer before,give him bare minimum to spend.
Woodward and the Glazers felt the squad that came 2nd was just fine, that's why they didn't give Jose any more money.
OGS early results confirmed Woodward and the Glazers beliefs that the squad was good enough for a top-four place, hence the rush to appoint Ole as manager.
This is impossible to refute if you look at the basics but some will deny it.
Yes a lot of them are. The board has its fair share of dreamers. Woodward might be happy to forfeit 2-3yrs of no title challenge and he can spin that to sponsors if he tries hard enough.
That doesn't mean he or the sponsors will tolerate a relegation battle or 12-15th place finish.
Yes they are but my fear is the standards are so low, they'll begin to lower their standards too.
I watched AWB in his first couple games and he looked a beast, look now and he is misplacing passes etc.
How can our midfield and forwards misplace so many passes.. It feels there are no repercussions when mistakes are made, which means no one is upping their standards.
In his first season, joining in the October, he reached both the Europa League Final (knocking out United and Dortmund) and the League Cup Final. In the PL, they scored 3 at Stamford Bridge, 4 at the Etihad, 5 at Norwich, 6 at Villa, 6 at Southampton in the League cup. Scored 4 goals at home to Everton, Dortmund.
He was clearly implementing an attacking philosophy right from the off, with the players he inherited. Results were inconsistent but it was hardly an abysmal first season.
Most of us would take a season like that right now. At times they were scoring for fun.
LVG and Mourinho had their style which even if it was boring and crap for some it was actually present and they were sacked because it didn't work at the end.
You are overeating how many chances we got especially coming after a night in which we had zero shot on goals. We score one goal a game, and our scoring record has been crap for a long time. It can't be because we miss chances every match. Every team misses chances every game, which team is clinical enough to score every chance they got? The key is the more chances you get, the higher your ability to score. If you are creating 2-3 chances a game then of course you aren't going to score everyone of them, and you will probably end with 1 goal max unless you are incredibly lucky.
Contrary to what you and others believe implementing a style doesn't need a full new top squad to do. Any competent manager with clear vision getting a job will implement his style quickly on the pitch. The difference players make is how efficiently they can apply this style with mistakes or defects, and of course if that style is actually good enough to start. We aren't seeing any style with Ole 8 months in charge with a preseason and transfer market because he has nothing apply on the pitch and it's so obvious watching our games.
Doesnt excuse that the manager is also crap. Even craps players can be taught basic game plan which Ole doesnt have one. Thats the point people has been asking.
Ed Woodward better be sounding out managers, for once Please be proactive rather than reactive.
We need to get the next appointment right.
We need to get the next appointment right.
Sad but true
I have so many problems with your post i don't even know where to start. Maybe a good starting point would be to ask you what are the specifics of the tactical side of the game that Ole is getting so wrong?
The most common answer i hear is playing 2 in mid with Pogba as one of the two. Why is that? Because the alternative is to play Matic or Fred, along with McTominay and Pogba, and they are both dead weigh as we know. It's not a choice to play a 2 man mid with Pogba in it, it's necessary a fact. When Herrera was here we played 3, but he is not here anymore.
On the point of Lukaku and Sanchez, are you kididng me? They were some of our worst transfers ever given the money. Is it a problem we did not replace them? Sure. We had a striker lined up that was not sanctioned by the board until Lukaku left and that was to late for the English transfer window. Sanchez had 0 impact on the results but a massive impact on the health of the wage bill and demands from others. If you've ever worked with someone that makes more then you but delivers less, you would understand why getting rid of this guy was critical for the dressing room.
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