Will it though? I think his supporters generally know how he operates and choose him over career politicians. Its why nothing has stuck so far on him.
Donald Trump - All things impeachment.... | Acquitted in the Senate
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When you listen to interviews with just random people on the street who still support Trump, its absolutely incredible how many of them genuinely don't know how he operates. They don't follow much news, they're not glued to any news channel (including Fox) all day, and they just hear bits and peices from both sides that both sound so different that they don't know what to think.
That's the one bright spot in this horrible presidency, many of the people supporting him are doing so as low information voters, not because they necessarily know everything he's upto and are happy to go along with it.
If the Dems can convince the public under this unique spotlight that he's a crook (still a big if considering how good the GOP are at distraction and diversion), he's finished, even if we have to wait for next November to seal the deal.
Not correct. There needs tob e a 2/3rds majority for Trump to be removed from office. There doesn't need to be any kind of majority to publically air all his misdeeds a year before a general election.
You're right, his base will (basically) never abandon him, but he ultimately needs more than just his base to win. And while nothing seems to have stuck in some ways, I'd say the fact that he has so much going on around him is already baked into his approval numbers, which are bad.
As much as I would love that to happen, isnt there also the danger that if this impeachment is unsuccessful that he rides it to Victory and uses it to point at the "nasty" democrats and how they will stoop to any level to have him removed? Basically he will cry poor me and use all of this to his Advantage.
Adam Schiff trying to convince republicans to impeach Trump is what I imagine a conversation of Kenny Dalglish trying to convince SAF to become a Liverpool supporter would be like.
Not fecking likely to succeed. Ever.
Not fecking likely to succeed. Ever.
McConnell still needs his 51 simple majority to agree to the terms of the trial. In that scenario they need just 3 votes to break rank and demand that the ballot is secret. In that scenario it will be a lot closer to 2/3rds than you might think. Flake reckons he knows 35 senators who would use it to rid the party of Trump and Mike Murphy said he knows 30.
Trump is poison, there are some supporters no doubt but I'd bet my right bollock that given the chance of a secret vote to get rid of him once and for all, a majority would grab it with both hands.
This is some Freudian Slip.
It's not about having McConnell remove him, it's about a few things imo:
1. He has committed exactly the kind of offence the founders created impeachment for (using a foreign power against a domestic political rival, via his office). Therefore it is Congress' responsibility to do this, regardless of polling or whatever.
2. Having credible witnesses say on tv exactly what he did is powerful, especially to swing voters. Far moreso than simple reports to the press.
3. It is consuming Trump and the GOPs attention and focus, meaning they have less time to pursue their agenda of using the legislative branch to try to ensure perpetual minority rule.
1. He has committed exactly the kind of offence the founders created impeachment for (using a foreign power against a domestic political rival, via his office). Therefore it is Congress' responsibility to do this, regardless of polling or whatever.
2. Having credible witnesses say on tv exactly what he did is powerful, especially to swing voters. Far moreso than simple reports to the press.
3. It is consuming Trump and the GOPs attention and focus, meaning they have less time to pursue their agenda of using the legislative branch to try to ensure perpetual minority rule.
Why do you believe these proceedings will achieve this information for people who have managed to live in a bubble until now? It seems unlikely to me anything will change - the process is more important sure, has more gravitas, but for the people you're talking about, is this really gonna have an impact?
Also, to your bolded part - I don't see how it's a silver lining that people vote and elect someone to the highest office being completely oblivious to who he is, what he does and how he conducts himself. I would guess that it's true for certain voters (which is depressing), but I'm pretty sure that most know exactly what's going on, or at least the broadstrokes, but just don't care.
I've heard and read this a lot but I don't think it's actually true. The constitution does say that the Senate can make its on rules, but there is also explicit provision that the roll call of any vote must be entered into the public ledger if just 20% of Senators request it.
I think it would be rather odd if the senate could override such an explicit constitutional right.
For some it might be a big enough event for them to pay a bit more attention. How many, who knows?
I'll take ignorance over direct malice any day of the week.
The trouble is that the vote to decide it would be secret probably wouldn't be secret itself. And those 3 senators would face the full wrath of Trump. Of course they have some senators retiring anyway, so they might not care, but I can't see McConnell allowing it up for a vote in the first place.
Yup, and that's why I very reluctantly agreed with Pelosi before with her refusal to impeach (despite the bastard being an obvious crook). This time though they have a fairly clear and easily provable case of criminality that most people can understand (if its phrased properly). If they didn't impeach now, they'd be basically saying his behaviour is ok, and thats a horrible lesson to put into the history books.
Like I said to Pexbo, I don't think it's constitutionally possible. Although Article 1 gives each house the sole authority to determine the rules of its proceedings and only requires a simple majority to do so there is explicit provision against secrecy. I think you would need 4/5 affirmation of those present in order to institute a secret ballot, or at the very least least prevent 20% from explicitly requesting a vote be public.
Article1Section 5 said:
That just means it has to be entered into the journal. Which doesn't matter if you then bold the following:
"Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the desire of one fifth of those present, be entered on the Journal."
The whole thing is ridiculous anyway, if that many GOP senators are willing to turn on him, it shouldn't make any difference whether its secret or not. Basically they're scared to publicly convict a guy they think is a criminal because he would say bad things about them. As if he has more power than the entire rest of the party.
Is it wilful ignorance though? And isn't that malicious, to an extent?
I don't fundamentally disagree with what you're saying, I just feel like you have a too optimistic view on this, maybe. But hopefully you're right.
I'm not massively optimistic, the worlds only superpower actually voted in this blatantly dishonest, racist, sleazybag asshole, and every one of them knew he was a prick. It just cheered me up to hear from people on the street and to find out that even after 3 years a lot of them just don't know much about whats been going on at all. Feels like quite a lot of people who were ok with electing a mouthy asshole probably arent ok with him also being a crook.
People keep saying that if the impeachment fails, it will increase trumps chances. I see it the other way, once the impeachment fails and it surely will, it will urge the democratic base to say, the only way to get him out is through the election process.
I don’t think trump is going to increase his voter base from ‘16, I can see it going down slightly.
The key to the elections will be dem voters who abstained last time cause of anti Clinton rhetoric.
I don’t think trump is going to increase his voter base from ‘16, I can see it going down slightly.
The key to the elections will be dem voters who abstained last time cause of anti Clinton rhetoric.
It’s not just the dem voters, it’ll also largely be about the Dems winning back the disillusioned voters who voted Obama initially but opted for Trump in 2016. I don’t see a Joe Biden type convincing them to switch back, impeachment scandal or otherwise.
Then there’s the issue of disenfranchising poor dem voters, foreign interference and all other underhanded Republican tactics that give them an edge.
The sad reality is if Trump survives this hearing, he can still feasibly win next year irrespective of how damning the allegations are.
Trump and his cronies are all over Twitter and Facebook claiming victory and saying the hearings are a sham. Bogus witnesses arguing with no knowledge or evidence. So far he's playing this the same as the Mueller enquiry and as far as I can see, it's working.
I agree. Trump's electorate will roughly stay the same regardless of impeachment proceedings or what he does whilst in office. The key is for voters who stayed home, to actually go to the voting booth. Lots of young people, minorities, disenfranchised etc stayed home during 2016 elections. The trick for the DNC is to provide a credible and progressive alternative to Trump not Hillary MK2.
and the disenfranchised will be motivated by the evidence out of the impeachment hearings. This with the mueller report will show how corrupt this administration is and get them to the booths.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/poli...dland-call-trump-security-concerns/index.html
Likely that foreign governments intercepted the phone call between Trump and Sondland that Bill Taylor mentioned yesterday in the hearing. Think this story will become bigger over the next few days, especially if there is a recording out there that gets leaked of the phone convo.
Likely that foreign governments intercepted the phone call between Trump and Sondland that Bill Taylor mentioned yesterday in the hearing. Think this story will become bigger over the next few days, especially if there is a recording out there that gets leaked of the phone convo.
It's just a breach of common practice....which has become the norm nowadays. There is nothing illegal there, even if the conversation gets leaked.
The President of Ukraine must surely hold Trump by the balls now. He must know everything that could see him impeached and have it all recorded.
He absolutely does but he doesn’t know who will be President in 2020, who will hold the Senate and who will hold the purse strings in the house. I bet he’d like nothing more than to stick it to Trump but he knows the blowback he’d face if it doesn’t play out well.
How hard would it be to make a pact with the dems? Besides, they'd always support him over Putin any day of the week.
And what if the GOP hold the senate or the White House and decide its time for some payback? Or the GOP lose but gain power again in 4 years?
Ukraine have to literally think about the survival of their country as an independent state, US political games are going to come a lot lower on their priorities list.
Don't think that the legality of the call really matters, it's the content that could make a difference.
The Dems really need to be pushing those subpoenas. Trump calling out the whistleblower whilst blocking witnesses from testifying doesn't make any sense.
Why do they have to make a statement before any witness? Dronin' Nunes is boring as feck.
Best bit of that is the White House statement that Trump will only be watching Nunes statement, then doing other stuff.
Enjoyed Schiff telling Jordan to do one.
Is there an online radio to listen to this live? I'm about to take off from work and want to keep tabs on phone during my commute. The CSPAN and NPR radio apps don't seem to broadcast it.
PBS probably has it
All of them have video and I don't want to drain my phone battery.
How long has Kiev been 'Keeve'?
For 270 million they can call it whatever they want.
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