5th is not too bad, but it's also because Spurs and Arsenal have been terrible as well. It's our worst point tally at this stage of the season in over 30 years. People might not think that is important, but it's a pretty good indicator about how we are performing.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
Tbh I think when Mourinho finished 2nd with 82 points and klopp finished 2nd with 97 points last year it's provides quite a lot of insight into the performances and quality of our team and manager.
Better options would have been Williams for Shaw and Mason for James plus the tea lady for Jessie
Not a single manager in the world would have us higher in the Premier League table with these players. But will Ole bring us the titles and long term identity is still under question by many. We need to invest now to quality players that fit his game plan.
The issue with Ole is that even if he knew yesterday that he had to make a change because we were struggling in the first 30 minutes, he didn't do it because he is scared of getting on the bad side of the lingards, shaws or any other. He knows that the squad support is one of the main reasons of him having the job and keeping it,so he will always wait until the 60 minutes mark to make any changes just to keep things good within the squad.
What makes you think that no manager in the world could have us performing better than Solskjær?
My knives are already out for the next manager (whoever he is). If Ole is sacked before the season is out, it will send a message to me that the club can't be bothered with waiting anymore. In that case, I will stop bothering as well.
If we're going to be Real Madrid, we do it properly. Instant results or out. We can't afford to give the next manager another year or two to sort this shit out.
If we're going to be Real Madrid, we do it properly. Instant results or out. We can't afford to give the next manager another year or two to sort this shit out.
Because he wasn't playing at all when we had a fully fit team!
Again, trying to divert the point. I never argued that he was developing those players, did I? Just admit you were wrong.
Honestly don’t know. By their logic people could have said no one could have done better then Dalglish so no point hiring Klopp.
I don’t. There’s a million and one different variables your never comparing like for like. On that basis Klopps Liverpool team where better than the united team in 92, 99 etc etc. It’s irrelevant.
You don't give any manager anything. He earns the right to manage us the following season.
Absolutely. No title challenge, no job next season. Don't matter if your name is Pochettino or Allegri or Mourinho.
Do it like the masters do at the Bernabeu.
They clearly had better league form. There is no denying it. If City was racking up 100 points in 99 or 2008, we wouldn't have won the league either.
So a failed manager earns the right to basically unlimited time here because he used to play for us but a top-class manager has to deliver title challenges straight away or he should be sacked.
Do you people think before you type?
Haha. You should understand that coaching is done on the training ground. It looks like Ole and the coaches have been working with Fred and others and the improvement shows for some players. It's clear you can't give Ole credit for anything.
Because he thinks we already have the best manager in the world. Just give him time and he will be better than SAF.
Absolutely. If they are 'top-class' then they must come with top results. It's what Mourinho would say.
Yesterday’s loss has me over the edge. I don’t think Ole will be able to cut it here.
Till now it still felt like he is moving in the right direction, albeit in a really convoluted way but now it’s clear that we are going around in circles with no end in sight.
If people are hoping to give him a couple transfer windows to improve performances then remember that aren’t an attractive destination any more for top talent. In the recent past we were able to attract and retain players towards the end of their prime by simply paying them above the market. That approach is now gone too.
I am grateful to Solskjær for studying the ship and sucking out the post Mourinho toxicity. It’s fun watching football again because of him but we really need a manager who is used to working under similar circumstances and under the limitations we are currently under.
Till now it still felt like he is moving in the right direction, albeit in a really convoluted way but now it’s clear that we are going around in circles with no end in sight.
If people are hoping to give him a couple transfer windows to improve performances then remember that aren’t an attractive destination any more for top talent. In the recent past we were able to attract and retain players towards the end of their prime by simply paying them above the market. That approach is now gone too.
I am grateful to Solskjær for studying the ship and sucking out the post Mourinho toxicity. It’s fun watching football again because of him but we really need a manager who is used to working under similar circumstances and under the limitations we are currently under.
Nobody is thinking that. What makes you think that any other manager would play better and win every game that you cleary think we should be doing?
I reckon a large proportion of our fanbase has 'daddy issues'. They're not just looking for a manager for their football team, but also a father figure who will be there for them for long time. You just need to give him enough time, and he'll be perfect and nobody else is better. It's dead weird, but I think there's some truth to it.
Who's expecting us to win every game? We have 31 points from 21 games. There a lot room for improvement on that.
No offense but that's some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen on here.
I seriously don't know what you're rambling on about. I literally just gave him credit for Fred and the improvement of those players and agreed with you on it.
Your original "point" was made up bullshit that I've seen on here countless times as an excuse under Ole and I merely pointed out to you that it was wrong. I don't care about anything else.
With the current lot of players, too many shortages or surplus in requirement.
What's the point of keeping up the pretence of being a club that gives the manager time if we keep sacking them after a year or two? Ole will be number 4.
We don't give managers time as a club and as fans and that's the truth.
So then, we embrace the circus, the new identity, and hope it brings as many trophies for us as it does for Real.
But they wouldn’t have done cos we where a far better team in 99 or 2008. It’s really a pointless and irrelevant comparison. I am saying no more on this.
It's a fantasy scenario, but you really think the PL was stronger in 90's than it is now? Our only contender was Arsenal. We finished 1st with 78 points. Finishing with 97 points is clearly better and in a far more competive league. They won the CL as well. There's no trophy for finishing 2nd, but I would say Liverpool were as good as our 2008 team.
We've given all four managers more time than they deserved. Each and every one of them was a sunken ship long before we actually sacked them. Moyes and LvG should've been gone by Christmas in those seasons, Ole should've been gone by September/October and Mourinho should have been gone the moment he started falling out with everyone. We have been incredibly patient, no other big club would've given those managers the time of day we have.
Ole has had more than enough time to imprint some sort of style of play, to improve results, to show what he's capable of, and has, quite frankly, failed on every front.
plus, a top-class manager earns the right to more time based on what they have achieved previously and their record of building great sides when given time to do so. You think if we hired someone as good as Klopp that we should expect him to immediately chase titles and sack him without letting him build a team? Don't be so ridiculous. Everyone compares Ole to SAF but seems to forget the fact that SAF had done wonders at Aberdeen which earned him patience here. Ole has done the square root of sweet feck all in his career so far to earn more time than we've already given him.
I really couldnt care less we’ve enough problems to deal with right now without bringing in fantasy scenarios. Just as an aside though, the league standard has been piss poor for years now with exception of city and Liverpool.
The standards of our bottom and midtable are much higher than they were because increase in wealth. Which means that those teams in general had worse players than now.
Anyway I think points tally is a very good metric for league form.
You wrote: "Besides, if Pogba was playing then Fred wouldn't have even gotten games and wouldn't have improved."
Aaaaand that's me discrediting Ole how exactly?
Ridiculous to think that. Solskjaer is barely in the top 15 managers in the PL let alone the best in the world
He won't ever manage in the PL again once he gets sacked here.
I praised Ole for the development of Fred and you wrote the above suggesting Fred only improved because Ole was forced to play him. That's nonsense and suggests to me you can't give Ole credit. Can you admit that Ole deserves some credit for Fred, McTominay, Greenwood and Pereira's development? I include Pereira reluctantly as he has only played well twice imo.Aaaaand that's me discrediting Ole how exactly?
I don't agree that we gave Moyes and LVG enough time. You based your opinions simply on results. Moyes had barely a sniff at the job before he got fired. The team had barely been changed in the 7 months he was here and it was the sack purely based on shite results.
LVG is, by far, the only manager post-Fergie to successfully imprint his style on the club. We had 60% possession most games and controlled most of them. He was still once piece short of the puzzle in terms of scoring goals but did we give him time to find the answer? No. Sacked a day after winning the FA Cup because league results were poor.
Mourinho did well results wise and probably would have had more time had he not pressed the self destruct button so spectacularly with everyone at the club. That was stupid of him. Even then we only sacked him when league results were bad.
Ole, if sacked, will have been midway through changing the culture and reducing the average age of the team. Our team can have a good energy and counterattack but we have some glaring weaknesses in consistency. Do we give him the time to find the answer? No, if we sack him.
So no. I fundamentally disagree that we gave 3 out of 4 managers the time they needed to find the answers to the difficult questions. It was all based on league results at the time of their sacking and thus, we prove that we are a club and fanbase that cannot look past league results to judge a manager's work.
I don't see why we should keep this charade going for the next manager.
Actually, if he finishes at 5th this season, he will be in top 5, if he finishes at 7, he will be top 7. In no way is he "top 15". That is how numbers work. Or does throwing around out-of-context "numbers" and stats only work if they talk against Ole?
I already did give him credit. He's done really well with Fred and McT.
The point about Fred not playing if Pogba was fit was merely to counteract your logic that if all these magical factors had fallen into place together then we'd be doing better. Pogba being fit as well as Fred being in this form would likely never have happened if Pogba was fit, so it's an irrelevant point. Just admit you were fecking wrong and stop trying to goad me into different, unrelated arguments so we can move on from this borefest.
Sensing doubt?
Get him out!
Honestly I can see this becoming another Moyes scenario whereby Ed waits until we're eliminated from the Europa League and sacks him off for like the final 6 games of the season with us loitering around 9th.
Get him out!
Honestly I can see this becoming another Moyes scenario whereby Ed waits until we're eliminated from the Europa League and sacks him off for like the final 6 games of the season with us loitering around 9th.
Right well if you seriously think that Moyes and LvG deserved more time then I don't really know what to say. It was clear long before they were sacked that neither of them were going to succeed here. We had completely capitulated under both of them and neither was going to turn things around, that's blindingly obvious to just about anyone and I'm not sure how you can possibly dispute that.
LvG had TWO years to build a fecking team, that's so much time in modern football! He spent £300m poorly, he had an awful "philosophy" that led to dire performances and results. His results were worse in his second season than his first season. He was done for.
if another top class manager comes in they should be expected to get top four in their first season and put in a title challenge the following season, or failing a title challenge, top four again with improvements in results and showing that they are improving the side and imprinting the style of football we'd like to see. if any of our previous three managers had done that, at a minimum, they'd have been here longer. Mourinho actually did do it (sort of, cause he won the Europa) but he decided to do his usual 3rd season balls-up.