Has this season hit rock bottom for you yet? If no, what, in particular, will be the final nails in the coffin?

Fortitude

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It occurred to me, whilst watching City toy with us in a manner akin to a cat with a half dead mouse, that I was numb to what was happening on the pitch - at some point in the first half of watching us bumble and stumble with all the bluster of an academy game, it dawned on me that I hadn't felt like this about a United game since Mourinho's last few months in charge.

See, defeats, even hammerings aren't what triggers that feeling of resignation, rather, when your team is completely bereft of creativity, competence and certainty (see what I did there?) only for the camera to then pan to the men coaching them who look like rabbits in headlights, that it dawns on you... that the hope, optimism and mild dosage of naivete you have despite it all is not kicking in. 'Funny' because as United fans yourselves, you'll have recollections of feeling this way possibly three other times since SAF retired, and from those past experiences, it seems a certainty that once the nadir is touched down upon, the position of the current manager, for you, is now untenable.

It feels, by our lack of transfer activity to this point in the month, that the squad woes will be compounded with no bolstering during this window - perhaps I'm wide of the mark here, and we will go out and make a few signings, but, as I see it, a squad in our predicament, with its season hanging by a thread, needs to have players wrapped up and being integrated into the squad as soon as humanly possible - eight days into the winter window, and not a single concrete link to any player does not suggest those in charge are in agreement. You'd like to think there's some serious foraging for agreements on deals being worked away furiously in the background, away from prying eyes, but even that notion seems hopelessly optimistic, doesn't it?

I think most of us are grown up enough and manager-weary enough after so many failures to have an objective, non-hysterical discussion about this - perhaps, for you, there are still reasons to be positive and you've reasoned with yourself that injuries, bad luck, a patchy period or what have you are the source of our woes, which you [truly] believe are temporary? Perhaps, you still believe in us picking things up and attaining either 4th or the Europa to qualify for next season's Champions League, or, the old, very United traditional faith and focus on the kids developing consoles you?

For myself, the worry, as I've posted up threads about in the past, is overspill - where the lack of planning and contingency from the disastrous season immediately carries over into the new one is becoming one of the biggest concerns. Now is the time to bed [some] new players and/or staff, during the period of little to no expectation, so that they can get themselves up to speed with the league (if they've come from elsewhere), their surroundings under less scrutiny and pressure with the hope they're some way down the line to being bedded in and ready to go by the times August, and the new season, rolls round. Any new manager gets a period to look at the squad this way, too, and make calls with certainty on who does and does not fit his vision for the supplemental players in the team he wants to start his season with whilst having a clear idea of what's needed for the summer window, too.

This thread might be seen as premature given we've Liverpool and a return leg vs City plus the replay vs. Wolves on the horizon, and not least, the Europa campaign still to go, but how many proverbial cuts from the thousand are needed for you to feel as though things need to be put to bed now? How was it for you with Moyes, LVG or Mourinho? Did it only kick in once we were out of the cups, or when 4th was a mathematical impossibility, or is it for you like it is for me, where if the games feel like Groundhog Day, you've felt like that's enough now? I don't care for the Ole in/out hokey cokey fractious civil war on here, nor do drubbings particularly influence me, but I find it galling when the opposition have no regard for us, almost to the point where the threat is seen as so miniscule that they've switched off, mid-game, assured it's over - at that point when you look at your own team and can see where they're coming from, I know I've reached the end of my tether.

tl:dr: When is enough for you - what are your personal triggers that say a manager's time is up?
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Enough is enough already for me but to answer your initial question, we have WAY worse to come. Look at the next bunch of fixtures.
 

Wayne's World

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Just wait until we roll up to Anfield next Sunday....it's going to be a record defeat for us that day
 

wolvored

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Yes think a lot worse is to come. Maguire although not brilliant will be missed in the defence.
 

LInkash

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I'm not at breaking point yet, losing to City whilst we've got a crippled midfield and Phil Jones in defence, especially as we 'won' the second half means I still have hope in me as we are in 5th, within touching distance of 4th.

If we lose against Norwich, that would be it though.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Next week we have Wolves and Pool. Two defeats would pretty much destroy our season. I am expecting Pool to do us now of course.

A big win for Pool like 4-0, 5-0 etc would just be torture and rock bottom for me.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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Already feel numb now, and the clubs lack of reaction to actually try and improve this horrible squad has accelerated it for me. Could get alot worse if we lose to Wolves and Liverpool aswell. Wonder if that point the Old Trafford Glazer puppets might finally react.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Already feel numb now, and the clubs lack of reaction to actually try and improve this horrible squad has accelerated it for me. Could get alot worse if we lose to Wolves and Liverpool aswell. Wonder if that point the Old Trafford Glazer puppets might finally react.
At least europe is one month away and Pogba could in theory be back for that. It is the small hope left in me.
 

LInkash

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Losing to Liverpool at Anfield is whatever. Leicester got smashed by them in their own backyard and we showed we were more than a match for them at OT.

Norwich at home is a definite no excuse game though, even with no midfield and Phil Jones.
 

Amadaeus

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Last season was mine. Post Psg, we seem to have forgotten how to play football, which is remarkable considering we went on a great run before that. We had the opportunity to get fourth but we shat ourselves against the mighty bottom of the league Cardiff and Huddesfield. I knew from then, that Ole is a fraud and we need a manager with a proper football philosophy.
 

DoomSlayer

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Th Europa League is my last hope. Even if we progress in the FA cup, I don't see us going all the way so all my money is on the EL. If we feck that up, it's a wrap.
 

seaNNN

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I felt numb pre match as in absolutely no excitement for the game.
Like most I’m just completely disillusioned by ole and those above more so with the fact that I don’t ever foresee us turning it around again under the glazers as we’re making profits.
 

DoomSlayer

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Last season was mine. Post Psg, we seem to have forgotten how to play football, which is remarkable considering we went on a great run before that. We had the opportunity to get fourth but we shat ourselves against the mighty bottom of the league Cardiff and Huddesfield. I knew from then, that Ole is a fraud and we need a manager with a proper football philosophy.
Would you bet on us winning a trophy under Poch if we got him?
 

RedSky

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We haven't seen anything yet. Don't expect a tidy few weeks as our midfield is one man in Fred and we're without Maguire while Rashford and James look knackered. It's about now after the Christmas period that our tiny squad is under most pressure.
 

Gordon S

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LvG managed to break me in his second season, the most boring football i’ve witnessed from us in my 35 years watching us. A low point for me. Honestly think it’s way more enjoyable now despite us being a bit crap. Never expected us to do anything of note this season, expected us to finish around 5-7 place so i’m not that disappointed. Its nice to see the young players getting minutes as well. Williams and Greenwood looks really promising
 

Amadaeus

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Would you bet on us winning a trophy under Poch if we got him?
We don’t even have to win a trophy. We have fallen so low that getting into the champions league will be an achievement here at United now. If Poch can do that consistently with no resource and a tight squad, then he could do that easily at United with our huge budget and deep squad before Ole start taking it apart and transforming us into Cardiff.

No doubt that he will win a trophy here because he came close with the team he built at Spurs. Similar with Klopp, with greater resource and better recruitment, we will see much better achievements and result.
 

Full bodied red

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Next week we have Wolves and Pool. Two defeats would pretty much destroy our season. I am expecting Pool to do us now of course.

A big win for Pool like 4-0, 5-0 etc would just be torture and rock bottom for me.

Been going to OT since 1956, so I've seen plenty worse than what's happening at the moment.

Compared to half of that time, 5th place in the League is pretty damn good.

But I'd hate it if the Scousers could claim they got two of our managers sacked within the space of 14 months and that would be the coffin's nails for me.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Think we are in perpetual limbo. Not going down, but not competing either. Complete mediocrity. Nothingness.
 

RedIan

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We are not at rock bottom just now.. it can get a lot worse and may do in coming weeks - who knows.
its frustrating and does leave you feeling numb because we are loosing so many games and its hard to remain pragmatic. The team was ravaged by injury and illness last night. no pogba no Maguire, no Mctominay and Martial on the bench after illness.

What is obvious is Ole and co have blundered with the transfer dealings in summer. Yes i like his 3 signings. However he was so naive letting too many quality players go without any replacement.
Lukaku, Herrera, Fellani, Sanchez, Smalling. All gone.
(Ok you could argue Maguire replaced smalling but smalling was our best and most reliable defender, to retain Rojo Jones and Bailly ahead of him was crazy.)

Ole has been very naive and is paying the price, i see the longer term plan to build a young squad of pacey ball players (the united attacking way) but it needs more than that. You need youth mixed with experience mixed with pure technical ability mixed with team spirit and desire. Oles lack of experience a a top flight manager is costing us right now. -BUT- Get Pogba and McT back fit and buy a couple or 3 quality players, a CM and a quality number 10 maybe a centre forward and suddenly things may look a lot more rosy.

Tough times but could be a lot worse. LVG reign was worst for me as i just didnt enjoy watching At all. At least under Ole when we play well its entertaining.
 

Xaviboy

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Could be a defeat to liverpool, defeat to Wolves and out of FA cup and defeat to city in 2nd leg and out of league cup all in January and then we dont sign anyone before window closes
 

AshRK

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We will have one more upward turn where we win some games and look half decent only to go 2 step backwards. Story of our season.
 

Random Task

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The final nail will be when Liverpool claim the title, prompting the end of humanity as we know it.
 

MiracleInMadrid

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It's truly amazing to arrive at this point so many times in under 10 years. At some point under all of Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Solskjær I have been completely drained of confidence and belief too the point where watching games almost felt like a chore rather than enjoyment. I guess it will continue happening until we get owners who actually has any sort of pride in how the sporting side of the club is run.
 

Big Ben Foster

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End of last season was my breaking point. Everton, Huddersfield, and Cardiff in particular.
 

Sandikan

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If we'd had Maguire, Pog, Mctom and a fit Martial in there and lost like yesterday id be a lot more worried personally.

Who expected much better?!
 

charlenefan

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Last night is being overblown slightly I feel, it's not the first time in the last 10 years City have battered us and while the headlines point to a gulf between the two sides they forget we beat them on their own ground and were excellent in most areas of the game on that day so yeah batterings by City can happen, they suck but it is what it is and I wouldn't put it past us to win at least one of our 2 remaining games against them this season

As for the point of the thread I've said all along review it at the end of the season I don't see anyone being able to do anything with this squad with the injuries which needs to be said are crippling Solskjaer
 

RedIan

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many fans now are younger and wont remember the bad times in the 70,s and 80,s when we were crap and Liverpool won everything... they will only have known the success through Fergies long long reign. No one has a Devine right to success. You have to earn it...

Fergie came in and changed everything from top to bottom, the youth policies, recruitment, training,, mentality etc etc... he is so missed. We need the next modern day Fergie... but remember it took Fergie a few years to get any success and many chanted Fergie out fergie out for 3 years. .... if the club had bowed down to supporters feelings fergie would have been sacked after 2/3 years and we wouldn’t have had such a glorious period Of success...

Food for thought.
 

Denis79

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I'm not looking forward to this half of the season at all, I think we've been found out on our counter-attacking tactics, I believe proper fatigue will kick in soonish and if we get an injury or two on top of that it's going to become a nightmare. I don't see any improvements at all if I'm being honest, a good game here and there but nothing consistent nor anything that makes me believe it's going to get better. It's looking bleak and depressing.
 

Forevergiggs1

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If hitting rock bottom means watching us play and not feeling any emotion when we capitulate like we have in so many games this season then I'm ready there.
 

tinofapples

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For me the season is effectively over and it's hard not to think like that when Ole comes out and says something about building for next season, for those in charge it's gonna be elimination for the race for top 4 before they change anything.
 

Red_Aaron

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Last night is being overblown slightly I feel, it's not the first time in the last 10 years City have battered us and while the headlines point to a gulf between the two sides they forget we beat them on their own ground and were excellent in most areas of the game on that day so yeah batterings by City can happen, they suck but it is what it is and I wouldn't put it past us to win at least one of our 2 remaining games against them this season

As for the point of the thread I've said all along review it at the end of the season I don't see anyone being able to do anything with this squad with the injuries which needs to be said are crippling Solskjaer
This.

The lesson City gave us a couple of seasons ago at OT was far worse, I don't think we touched the ball for an hour that day, KDB was on a different planet.

Tbh I'm kind of enjoying this season, the squad is paper thin which is hamstringing Ole and the end result will be entirely dependent on staying fit for the run in however when we're on it we've actually played some good stuff and had some good wins I think.
 

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We're 5th in the league and still in many cups.. yes, the squad is blown to pieces.. We're still in there..