They are Lies if we don't get things done then.
Bruno Fernandes | Signed
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
- Start date
- Status
That is the lie though isn't it?we're quite clearly not going to sign anyone and Ole can say none of our 'targets' were available.
During he's later years it was not a very good situation. The World Class talent was on the decline and the buys were more in the Valencia, Young, old Owen, Obertan type while the Hazards of the World were "not good value". But i agree the squad was vastly superior anyway.
We've spend 70mil net on the first year of a "major rebuild" while letting go of a lot of players. It's inexcusable, i don't care who the manager is. Maybe we'll pull through the Bruno deal and it's going to be slightly better, but it should have been done in the summer anyway. A mid with 5-6 goals and 5-6 assists and a back up striker would have put us top 4 now imo.
Agree. Rebuild my ass. Lukaku, Sanchez not replaced. Herrera and Fellaini not replaced. We are still getting rid of players ( Young, Smalling, Rojo) and not replacing them. This is the big rebuild. Don't make me laugh.
If he plays anymore games for Sporting we'll have to rest him if we buy him.
It's not a rebuild it is a demolition.
You're right @DomesticTadpole
I take him saying the club is looking to get one or two things done and that same club negotiating a transfer fee with another club to be the same thing. I don’t think he’s lying to anyone. You might not be happy with progress and maybe he’s not either. The media are already hounding us and our players, if he added fuel to the flames the performances would probably deteriorate even further.
Imagine your workplace was like United and the media and general public were crawling over every word you said and every action you took. You’d probably have PTSD.
Needed several players in this month but Even thinner now with Ashley Young: another gone - not replaced. We won’t get any New players. Squad even thinner. They’ll “run out of time” again due to ”difficulties”.
We’ll eventually get through the remaining playing staff (Chong and Gomez off next) and we’ll be watching the canteen staff high-giving Fred the Red in front of the Stretford End next season.
The Wolves game is going to be pure toxic. I can feel it now. Fans should stay to clap in the 58th minute for the babes and then all leave on mass in 59th. Singing anti Glazer songs is having some effect as it's making news headlines but ultimately it's not enough. Staying away and making very visible walkouts is going to harm the brand hugely. That's what's needed.
What stage? We only just added 5m Euro according to Portuguese media. It means we are still 20m Euro behind from what Sporting asked.
Yeah, you are dreaming if you think we can catch City & Liverpool by signing players in this January and this summer. That’s why we are focusing more in developing young players nowadays.
Ignore him, he’s been on an anti Ole drive for ages
If he saw Ole walking down the street with his kids he’d ask him where he abducted the kids from.
I agree with the players that have left, but to not invest to replace them, i don't even know who to blame; is it the Glazers not making the money available, is it Woodward as the most incompetent negotiator ever? I've no idea but the manager has been put in a terrible situation and unfortunately he is the lightning rod for much of the frustration.
I can even see next summer Pogba leaving with a few others and we end up with another 50-70mil net spent and a super thin squad.
No, we are only 5 behind, it's about guaranteed payments. With bonus they want 70 million. 60+10, as per reports, now we have offered 55+10 or 55+15.
But I don't think he is doing this for the media. He is doing it for Woody and the Glazers. It's time he stood up and be counted. We all know how much we need players in here and he as manager should be demanding players that go should be replaced.
Yeah, and 5 of the +15 is supposedly "objectives" instead of add-ons... whatever that means.
Guess they are very attainable, X amount of games or something.
Preparing a bid.
A bid to look at him
Yep, the word rebuild contains 'build'. You don't strip away building blocks and not replace them - that isn't building anything, it's demolishing something. How fans can't see that all this is about is reducing the wage bill, is beyond me. Now, we did need to do that - but don't lie to the fans and dress it up as a rebuild, when it's simply a wage-bill reduction.
Yep, exactly.
They want 80m euro equivalent to almost 70m pounds. You got confused with euro and pounds.
No, I didn't. Portuguese media are consistent from day 1 that asking price was 60 million + 10 million euros. 80 million is English media invented stuff.
When? Sporting have quoted a price and stuck to it.
Sport witness have written a good article on how ManUtd/Woodward have mislead the fans on asking price and always comes up with PR shit about selling clubs. It covers everything.
Well, we are not merely stripping away "building blocks", we are redoing from the foundation and up. That actually require demolition first, and I think that was necessary. That does not mean I don't want a body or two in, though. The most glaring issue is the no. 10 spot. Pereira is unfortunately bouth playing the most vital position and also one of very few players who haven't improved, which again is critical as he wasn't all that much to begin with.
Ever attack against Liverpool broke down when he got the ball.
What?
We are talking about BBC here. Simon Stones wrote the article. Tier 1 and the best one for United news. You are telling me he’s unreliable now?
I'm not a fan of the Glazers, but is it really their fault that we aren't buying players? Thought Ole was handed a massive transfer kitty?
Hope the Fernandes transfer happens though. An untested player is far better than some of the ones we have now whom we all know to be not good enough
Hope the Fernandes transfer happens though. An untested player is far better than some of the ones we have now whom we all know to be not good enough
He isn't unreliable, he writes what the club briefs the reporters. That's why Simon Stone, Jamie Jackson, Paul Hirst, Simon Peach all write the same articles and at same time.
So he’s reliable then? Coincidence how the price you named is 70m Euro when 80m Euro is equivalent to almost 70m Pounds. This is not the first time people in football media were mistaken with Euro & Pounds.
Exactly, you don't rebuild with youth alone. The class of 92 had absolute legends and monsters around them, building up their confidence and showing them the way like true leaders.
To build a team of youngsters without that isn't good management it's complete negligence and should be called out accordingly.
Agree about #10. Fernandes in that position for the next few months would see an improvement.
A lot of the English Journalist mistake this all the time. I think it is just a keyboard mistake. Portugal deal in Euro so there newspapers will tell you the true figures.
And the people who always confuse pounds and Euro signs are English journalists, so not surprising 70 million euros is converted to 70 million pounds and then to 80 million Euros.
Don't you have to knock something down first in order to start rebuilding it?
Well, that is unreliable in some ways, since they are more or less part of United's PR division.
So when United want to put pressure on Sporting or offer an explanation to the fans, they get these to write what they want - even if it doesnt accurately reflect the true situation of the negotiations.
But the same can be said of numerous Portugese outlets.
It is PR stuff from the media, there is clear pattern too. There are few journalist who report story almost word by word, which is when you know it's the club briefing. Obviously when the club does that, they want to spin everything in their favor. Sportwitness did good work in collecting lot of info and put everything in single article.
Manchester United were not interested in Bruno Fernandes in the summer. It’s what the club routinely told their closest media, leading to repeated sneering at claims of interest coming from Portugal.
Having had a scout at pretty much every Sporting fixture for the second half of last season, and therefore having seen the midfielder break all kinds of records, the Red Devils weren’t bothered.
Indeed, there was thought to be anger at Old Trafford that the club was even being linked, and then later on the message was sent out that Bruno’s passing statistics weren’t up to scratch.
Fast forward to Thursday January 9th, and there were claims from Portugal that Manchester United interest (which they never believed didn’t exist) had been reignited.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was presented as reevaluating the player ahead of a potential January swoop. There was, however, a problem presented. Sporting have long been looking for a €70m headline figure for their star and United were ‘reluctant’ to match that.
On Friday January 10th, it was reported in Portugal that Solskjaer and Mike Phelan had recently travelled to a Sporting match to watch Bruno in person. The BBC’s Simon Stone was informed about the report prior to the manager’s press conference that day, and asked about it.
Solskjaer was vague, although he didn’t deny it. The Manchester Evening News later reported: ‘United sources are guarded about the renewed speculation and noted the ‘noise is being driven out of Portugal”
That evening, claims came from Portugal of Frederico Varandas, Sporting’s president, travelling to London for talks about the move. Everything inevitably got carried away and the transfer was presented as closer than it was, by sections of both the Portuguese and English media.
But there was interest and talks, clearly. This time it was too difficult to present the whole thing as a figment of Portuguese imagination. Whilst the sniping towards the country’s media continued, by many who then spent much of the coming days covering it, it had to be tempered.
Claims were flying around, and, as ever, Portuguese newspapers were reported as saying things they hadn’t. This wasn’t just restricted to social media, but also from websites and newspapers, one of which is named above.
For complete clarity, the Portuguese media aren’t completely blameless in the hype, they’ve played a big part, although not as big a part as some would insist.
Then on the evening of Thursday 16th, TVI24, who had been the first to break Varandas’ trip to London, reported the transfer was at risk.
Sporting were said to be demanding €65m guaranteed, with Manchester United not wanting to go above €50m.
The Red Devils were reportedly putting on the table a big amount in bonuses, which could make the deal reach up to €70m or €80m. However, they were too hard to achieve.
That was the first time the €80m figure was pushed, and it was clearly from the perspective of the English club, who were said to be trying to have a low base price and lots more based on fanciful additions.
Rui Pedro Braz was the journalist pushing the story, and whilst he didn’t know the exact clauses, he believed the bonuses could refer to Premier League and Champions League titles, besides Bruno winning the Ballon d’Or.
The €15m difference, between €50m and €65m, is what Braz said was holding the deal up. There was no point offering Sporting bonuses they knew would be very hard to trigger.
Given the frenzy that had built up, TVI24’s claims got a bad reaction, how could they believe the transfer was at risk when others said it was imminent? Their claims were later backed up elsewhere, both by the Portuguese and English media.
Friday 17th was the big derby day. Sporting were believed to be doing anything to keep their player for the Benfica match, and then it was assumed he’d say goodbye. Sky Sports sent someone to Lisbon, who gave the impression the deal was pretty much done. There was talk of a potential flight after the match, and even claims a Sporting official had said it was agreed.
It was nonsense, Sky weren’t going to send someone to Lisbon to then reply they didn’t have a clue what was happening.
As the match was approaching, BBC 5 Live put out a segment on the situation. Darren Fletcher said Tottenham had made a £45m offer in the summer, and that Spurs walked away when that was rejected because they didn’t feel Bruno was worth any more.
Fletcher then said he’d been led to believe Sporting want €80m, a figure he later put as £80m, ‘about €35m more than Spurs offered‘. He said ‘it begs the question how he’s upped his value by €35m’ in the time since then.
He hasn’t, obviously, and that wasn’t even being suggested in Portugal. Tottenham’s offer, which was actually €45m (plus fanciful bonuses), was rejected.
This was the first of a series of leaks, or a briefing.
Saturday saw almost all the journalists who usually have Manchester United briefings go with the line that Sporting had drastically upped their valuation. It was all the Lisbon club’s fault, they were being unreasonable, and it was clear Tottenham’s summer offer had been a big part of the message sent out.
Enthusiastically, people went to work fighting this corner for the negotiating team at Old Trafford.
The BBC said ‘Sporting Lisbon are asking for nearly double what Tottenham rated the Portugal midfielder last summer’.
The Manchester Evening News said United are ‘baffled by Sporting Lisbon’s sudden change in demand for Bruno Fernandes’.
The Guardian reported ‘Manchester United have baulked at Sporting Lisbon’s £68m valuation of Bruno Fernandes, with their valuation of the midfielder closer to £38m plus add-ons’.
That made it sound very much like Bruno’s club were asking for €80m flat.
It’s even been suggested that Tottenham were offered the player for €45m, which is frankly nonsense.
How do we know this? Because Sporting’s president mocked it publicly. There’s the possibility he made it all up, but it’s surely not a high one. In September, Frederico Varandas said: “The only serious proposal, which was still only verbal, was a €45m bid from Tottenham for Bruno Fernandes, plus €20m in goals.
“Twenty million in goals which were about Tottenham becoming the Premier League winners, which they never were, and winning the Champions League, which has also never happened. So I found these goals extremely imposs…. difficult to accomplish. And I understood not to sell Bruno Fernandes.”
Despite all of that, and despite it being made clear in Portugal for a long time that a headline figure of €70m including reasonable bonuses would be acceptable, with a request for €80m (especially as a flat fee) not thought to be the case, the United brief was parroted without question.
Is there not the suspicion that these briefings… may not be true? And if so, which surely has to be the case, does the responsibility not to parrot them then weigh enough?
The targeted leaks work, with a section of Manchester United fans now believing Sporting hiked their price up massively (almost doubled it according to some) and therefore their club can’t be held to ransom.
They believe it, they believe United are having a gun held to their head and that giving in to unreasonable demands would be the worst step they could now take.
Major and respected sections of the English media turn into an extension of Manchester United’s PR arm. Some United fans, choosing to believe their club has been wronged, then jump to their defence, without realising that’s the entire point.
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time.
Taking a step back, it makes little sense for Sporting to put the message out there, and spend months doing so, that they want less than they actually do.
Some of the willingness to sneer at the Portuguese press, from people who have never opened a Portuguese newspaper in their life, has a worrying slant to it. Same as the attitude towards Sporting, who aren’t quite in the financial emergency they’re being presented as.
It doesn’t take too much critical thinking to believe Manchester United are getting a PR stance out. The briefing is so transparent, and has been covered so dutifully, that it may as well have been published on the club’s website.
Sporting will have been doing similar when hyping their player, although it doesn’t appear they’ve done it to the same extent.
Should the transfer fail, then Ed Woodward and his negotiating team can blame Sporting’s unrealistic requests, and should they manage to get Bruno Fernandes for €60-70m then that can be presented as a win, given the message sent out this weekend regarding the asking price.
It’s all a game, but some people shouldn’t be so willing to help Manchester United play it.
Having had a scout at pretty much every Sporting fixture for the second half of last season, and therefore having seen the midfielder break all kinds of records, the Red Devils weren’t bothered.
Indeed, there was thought to be anger at Old Trafford that the club was even being linked, and then later on the message was sent out that Bruno’s passing statistics weren’t up to scratch.
Fast forward to Thursday January 9th, and there were claims from Portugal that Manchester United interest (which they never believed didn’t exist) had been reignited.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was presented as reevaluating the player ahead of a potential January swoop. There was, however, a problem presented. Sporting have long been looking for a €70m headline figure for their star and United were ‘reluctant’ to match that.
On Friday January 10th, it was reported in Portugal that Solskjaer and Mike Phelan had recently travelled to a Sporting match to watch Bruno in person. The BBC’s Simon Stone was informed about the report prior to the manager’s press conference that day, and asked about it.
Solskjaer was vague, although he didn’t deny it. The Manchester Evening News later reported: ‘United sources are guarded about the renewed speculation and noted the ‘noise is being driven out of Portugal”
That evening, claims came from Portugal of Frederico Varandas, Sporting’s president, travelling to London for talks about the move. Everything inevitably got carried away and the transfer was presented as closer than it was, by sections of both the Portuguese and English media.
But there was interest and talks, clearly. This time it was too difficult to present the whole thing as a figment of Portuguese imagination. Whilst the sniping towards the country’s media continued, by many who then spent much of the coming days covering it, it had to be tempered.
Claims were flying around, and, as ever, Portuguese newspapers were reported as saying things they hadn’t. This wasn’t just restricted to social media, but also from websites and newspapers, one of which is named above.
For complete clarity, the Portuguese media aren’t completely blameless in the hype, they’ve played a big part, although not as big a part as some would insist.
Then on the evening of Thursday 16th, TVI24, who had been the first to break Varandas’ trip to London, reported the transfer was at risk.
Sporting were said to be demanding €65m guaranteed, with Manchester United not wanting to go above €50m.
The Red Devils were reportedly putting on the table a big amount in bonuses, which could make the deal reach up to €70m or €80m. However, they were too hard to achieve.
That was the first time the €80m figure was pushed, and it was clearly from the perspective of the English club, who were said to be trying to have a low base price and lots more based on fanciful additions.
Rui Pedro Braz was the journalist pushing the story, and whilst he didn’t know the exact clauses, he believed the bonuses could refer to Premier League and Champions League titles, besides Bruno winning the Ballon d’Or.
The €15m difference, between €50m and €65m, is what Braz said was holding the deal up. There was no point offering Sporting bonuses they knew would be very hard to trigger.
Given the frenzy that had built up, TVI24’s claims got a bad reaction, how could they believe the transfer was at risk when others said it was imminent? Their claims were later backed up elsewhere, both by the Portuguese and English media.
Friday 17th was the big derby day. Sporting were believed to be doing anything to keep their player for the Benfica match, and then it was assumed he’d say goodbye. Sky Sports sent someone to Lisbon, who gave the impression the deal was pretty much done. There was talk of a potential flight after the match, and even claims a Sporting official had said it was agreed.
It was nonsense, Sky weren’t going to send someone to Lisbon to then reply they didn’t have a clue what was happening.
As the match was approaching, BBC 5 Live put out a segment on the situation. Darren Fletcher said Tottenham had made a £45m offer in the summer, and that Spurs walked away when that was rejected because they didn’t feel Bruno was worth any more.
Fletcher then said he’d been led to believe Sporting want €80m, a figure he later put as £80m, ‘about €35m more than Spurs offered‘. He said ‘it begs the question how he’s upped his value by €35m’ in the time since then.
He hasn’t, obviously, and that wasn’t even being suggested in Portugal. Tottenham’s offer, which was actually €45m (plus fanciful bonuses), was rejected.
This was the first of a series of leaks, or a briefing.
Saturday saw almost all the journalists who usually have Manchester United briefings go with the line that Sporting had drastically upped their valuation. It was all the Lisbon club’s fault, they were being unreasonable, and it was clear Tottenham’s summer offer had been a big part of the message sent out.
Enthusiastically, people went to work fighting this corner for the negotiating team at Old Trafford.
The BBC said ‘Sporting Lisbon are asking for nearly double what Tottenham rated the Portugal midfielder last summer’.
The Manchester Evening News said United are ‘baffled by Sporting Lisbon’s sudden change in demand for Bruno Fernandes’.
The Guardian reported ‘Manchester United have baulked at Sporting Lisbon’s £68m valuation of Bruno Fernandes, with their valuation of the midfielder closer to £38m plus add-ons’.
That made it sound very much like Bruno’s club were asking for €80m flat.
It’s even been suggested that Tottenham were offered the player for €45m, which is frankly nonsense.
How do we know this? Because Sporting’s president mocked it publicly. There’s the possibility he made it all up, but it’s surely not a high one. In September, Frederico Varandas said: “The only serious proposal, which was still only verbal, was a €45m bid from Tottenham for Bruno Fernandes, plus €20m in goals.
“Twenty million in goals which were about Tottenham becoming the Premier League winners, which they never were, and winning the Champions League, which has also never happened. So I found these goals extremely imposs…. difficult to accomplish. And I understood not to sell Bruno Fernandes.”
Despite all of that, and despite it being made clear in Portugal for a long time that a headline figure of €70m including reasonable bonuses would be acceptable, with a request for €80m (especially as a flat fee) not thought to be the case, the United brief was parroted without question.
Is there not the suspicion that these briefings… may not be true? And if so, which surely has to be the case, does the responsibility not to parrot them then weigh enough?
The targeted leaks work, with a section of Manchester United fans now believing Sporting hiked their price up massively (almost doubled it according to some) and therefore their club can’t be held to ransom.
They believe it, they believe United are having a gun held to their head and that giving in to unreasonable demands would be the worst step they could now take.
Major and respected sections of the English media turn into an extension of Manchester United’s PR arm. Some United fans, choosing to believe their club has been wronged, then jump to their defence, without realising that’s the entire point.
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time.
Taking a step back, it makes little sense for Sporting to put the message out there, and spend months doing so, that they want less than they actually do.
Some of the willingness to sneer at the Portuguese press, from people who have never opened a Portuguese newspaper in their life, has a worrying slant to it. Same as the attitude towards Sporting, who aren’t quite in the financial emergency they’re being presented as.
It doesn’t take too much critical thinking to believe Manchester United are getting a PR stance out. The briefing is so transparent, and has been covered so dutifully, that it may as well have been published on the club’s website.
Sporting will have been doing similar when hyping their player, although it doesn’t appear they’ve done it to the same extent.
Should the transfer fail, then Ed Woodward and his negotiating team can blame Sporting’s unrealistic requests, and should they manage to get Bruno Fernandes for €60-70m then that can be presented as a win, given the message sent out this weekend regarding the asking price.
It’s all a game, but some people shouldn’t be so willing to help Manchester United play it.
http://sportwitness.co.uk/bruno-fernandes-man-united-look-saga-willingness-parrot-club-pr/
Amazing how so much nonsense was repeated as facts.
Btw Simon Stone is part of PR team too, not directly. He gets the news from Woodward and he writes favorable articles or defends him on twitter. It's all good business.
So you think Simon Stones tier 1 & reliable made the mistake but not the Portuguese article? What about you gave me the link. So we can both see it or you are the one who misread it.
I agree with you completely, but some people on this forum actually believe that we are doing a long term rebuild.
Even though Woodward has screwed the fans over several times, some fans still believe him and present themselves to be screwed over by him, again. It's like they don't learn.
A rebuild would require record amounts of money being spent - which is not happening. In fact, we are selling and loaning out a lot of our players, which indicates that we are dismantling, rather the rebuilding.
- Status