Ramshock
CAF Pilib De Brún Translator
No chance. Its okay when the West is bad just not them "Ay-rabs"Can’t wait for all yall to boycott England games
No chance. Its okay when the West is bad just not them "Ay-rabs"Can’t wait for all yall to boycott England games
I know, right. Move this train wreck of a thread to a politics board. Let the high and mighty of both sides continue it there.Can’t wait for all yall to boycott England games
Well said.The same people who put the likes of Blair, Bush or Trump in office are the same private investors who own clubs like United and companies like Apple. Without these people's financial, moral and material support (biased media houses) people like Bush wouldn't get into office and when they do they commit war crimes with people like MBS for the benefit of businesses owned by the Glazers and other billionaires.
The only difference between MBS and Western warmongers is that the latter do it whilst hiding behind crooked politicians whilst the Saudis lack the sophistication and the motivation to hide their true colors because they don't have to subject themselves to elections and are untouchable.
It’s not like them owning us or not really changes the geopolitics that much if at all. This clubs needs capital and owners who desire good football and being relevant in the premiere level of club talent. At a $4B price tag, we really don’t have a lot of choice. In fact, we literally don’t have a choice as it’s up to the Glazers to sell.No chance. Its okay when the West is bad just not them "Ay-rabs"
According to The Mummy as seen in the race to Hamanaptra, faster than horses.How fast can camels sprint?
The flesh eating scarabs are the fastest machines on earth if starved for a few thousand yearsAccording to The Mummy as seen in the race to Hamanaptra, faster than horses.
Are you implying that moaning on the Caf will achieve anything?Are you implying that the moaning is misplaced? Do you think that people who are averse to the idea of the club we love being owned by sexist, racist, religiously-intolerant murderous dictators are simply "a bad smell"? Is this seriously what you're saying?
I'm not sure where you got the bolded from but Suadi Arabia has no reason to become liberal under the current regime. You should look up Wahhabism and how it relates to the Suadi royal family. Once you do, let us know if you still think their country will become more liberal.It’s not like them owning us or not really changes the geopolitics that much if at all. This clubs needs capital and owners who desire good football and being relevant in the premiere level of club talent. At a $4B price tag, we really don’t have a lot of choice. In fact, we literally don’t have a choice as it’s up to the Glazers to sell.
One day, Saudi Arabia is going to be a modern country with more liberal values and that will be in major part due to MBS. And this controversial stuff about their conservative culture will be mere history. So I’m not too fussed about this current opinion of them if MBS wants to spend all this money on making us great again. And I ain’t one bit sorry for having this opinion.
So do you and I - how many of us scrutinise what our banks invest our money in?They probably invest in folks who do.
I have friends from Saudi Arabia who are working in the US and I ask them about their country whenever I talk to them. There is actually a split in ideas between MBS and the older more conservative factions of the Royal Family. The conservatives who want things to stay the old way really don’t like MBS. Another thing to look at is Vision 2030 which is a detailed plan to modernize and has even noted the promotion of cultural and social tolerance for what it’s worth. If true, then this all points to them embracing more liberal practices since they can’t rely on oil money forever and have to participate in other industries. That’s where I think things like investing a football club come into play — another step in the modernization process. So if that benefits us while they transform themselves, then I’m all for it.I'm not sure where you got the bolded from but Suadi Arabia has no reason to become liberal under the current regime. You should look up Wahhabism and how it relates to the Suadi royal family. Once you do, let us know if you still think their country will become more liberal.
There's enough occupation in the current events side of the caf globeCan we just create an ethics thread elsewhere and we keep this thread for actual news??
You come in here to search for news and all you read is about Churchill and Blair. I wonder how they would fare as a manager or as a DOF. They would probably be better then OleThere's enough occupation in the current events side of the caf globe
Churchill would have had us parachute into the nou camp for CL ties and Blair would have had us playing friendlies in Afghanistan against Bush XI.You come in here to search for news and all you read is about Churchill and Blair. I wonder how they would fare as a manager or as a DOF. They would probably be better then Ole
Insofar as this is the biggest Manchester United forum in the world, yes, it could potentially achieve something. I also don't think it's wrong that people who love the club demonstrate a visceral reaction to the club that they love and all the working class values of Manchester thrown out the window by the sale to a dictatorial regime, a regime that many would reject on moral grounds. In fact, many rejected the Glazers when they bought the club, and most here still "moan" about them. This is a forum of opinion and those opinions have a right to be expressed, regardless of what you deem an appropriate medium through which to express them (and I would argue a discussion forum is a good start!)Are you implying that moaning on the Caf will achieve anything?
I'm asking the question, those who are vocal in no longer following the club if any such takeover occurs, will they take it to an appropraite place or just post on the Caf, like that will achieve anything?
Well to be honest i was being a sarcy prick but you're older than i imagined so fair enough mate.Gibson, Edwards, PLC and Glazers. I'd say I'm good for at least 1 more.
+1What about the genocide committed by the West, against the people of the middle east?
So much bombing and killing and it's still happening.
Please don't make out that Westerners are any better.
The West conducted an illegal war, bombing Iraq into oblivion. That's a 1000 times worse than what the Saudis are doing.
The west are far more genocidal than the Arab states. You can have many reasons to not want a Saudi takeover but this one, whilst unpleasant, is just hypocrisy.
Right, but both of them have taken a sizeable chunk of investment from the folks who send their goons to another country to murder, dismember and dissolve someone in acid so that's the point. How many layers of direct interaction with the "murderous regime" are we willing to be removed to not consume their productSorry, I don't recall Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg sending their goons to another country to murder, dismember and dissolve someone in acid so I'm struggling to see your point.
Ok, because lack of consistency can only be pointed out by whataboutism, it is perfectly fine to not be consistent on these standards across the board.That’s literally whataboutism
Fully agree with this. I literally do not get the moral standards we cherry pick today. People harp on about cutting fossil fuel usage but happily consume meat (higher carbon footprint per capita than carbon emissions from an automobile). Oppressive Saudi regime but using iPhone made in China is fine. I don't really protest any of these since I do not understand where an objective line can be drawn. It's become so tedious now :/It’s just drawing comparisons though.
It’s all subjective and open to opinion.
I’ll say again, I will for this to happen every day, I cannot see a single downside.
The more links they have with western society the better, the more press focus on them the better.
Owning United doesn’t worsen the atrocities or cover up anything, if anything it shines a glowing light on it and puts them under the microscope because believe it or not football news is perversely more interesting to the average person than genocide is. Fact of life.
Like I say, I see no downside.
People need to stop pretending they have a choice or that the world will view them as though they’ve signed a petition to get this done and that they align themselves with Saudi crimes/traditions.
People happily turn a blind eye to issues that are certainly more relevant to them on a daily basis, things they actually have a choice in using/wearing/purchasing.
Where do you draw the line? Where it suits for most here I’m afraid.
Factually, there is a progress in liberalization of the regime. Recent developments include women attained driving rights, women higher education promotion, entrance visa liberalization.I'm not sure where you got the bolded from but Suadi Arabia has no reason to become liberal under the current regime. You should look up Wahhabism and how it relates to the Suadi royal family. Once you do, let us know if you still think their country will become more liberal.
It was an analogy to illustrate a point.Do you think only psychopaths kill people in cold blood?
Plus whom did they kill? Ordering an assignation isn't the same, heads of state do that kind of thing quite a bit.
HAHAHAHA..Can’t wait for all yall to boycott England games
This last sentence really threw me in an otherwise serious post!Factually, there is a progress in liberalization of the regime. Recent developments include women attained driving rights, women higher education promotion, entrance visa liberalization.
Yes, Wahabbism is a radical interpretation of the Holy Quran and Sunna. Yes, it is the official ideology of the Saudi regime.
But, as any repressive ideology, after playing it’s role in establishing statehood, Wahab’s teachings became politically obsolete.
I.e. inefficient for managing millions of the Saudi citizens who travel, have money, satellite TV, and Internet. The Saudis are shifting to a more open Dubai (Qatar, Kuwait, Oman) model.
The Saudi elite is looking to ditch Wahab in a way that wouldn’t cost them power. The same trick as Chinese communists did after Mao. Do you think that Communism is really working in China? No. There’s no Communism. China’s real ideology is Bureaucracy.
Gradual liberalization is a must for an oppressive regime to survive in the XXI century. MBS represents that understanding in the Saudi family.
He is not a saint, he is a cynical and power addicted dictator, but he is not stupid. He has to liberalize regime and modernize economy to prepare it for post-oil world.
Otherwise, he risks to get a crowbar in his anus like Qaddafi.
I'm in fear of taking this off topic, but what exactly is the problem with a 'feminist' government? Right wing commentators and various other morons seemed to have successfully obfuscated the real meaning of the term.My incompetent self declared feminist-government including.
It Utd is sold it could be a levered buyout again.Delusional mate. It will never happen. We have a valuation of 4bn. We are out of reach of fan ownership by miles. Bad people is all we have left. Unless Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos fancies buying the club who else is there?
He’s not kidding either.This last sentence really threw me in an otherwise serious post!
Good job we're not all English then isn't itCan’t wait for all yall to boycott England games
Yes the 1936 Berlin Olympics certainly made Adolf Hitler think again!!!If anything the Saudis owning United would put them under the spotlight even more. So you could argue they'd have to clean up their act.
Great postThe same people who put the likes of Blair, Bush or Trump in office are the same private investors who own clubs like United and companies like Apple. Without these people's financial, moral and material support (biased media houses) people like Bush wouldn't get into office and when they do they commit war crimes with people like MBS for the benefit of businesses owned by the Glazers and other billionaires.
The only difference between MBS and Western warmongers is that the latter do it whilst hiding behind crooked politicians whilst the Saudis lack the sophistication and the motivation to hide their true colors because they don't have to subject themselves to elections and are untouchable.
Yes exactly. Where do you ethically draw the line. I mean if the Saudi's owning United made circumstances/atrocities worse in their homeland then yeah of course it would be reprehensible to back it as fans, but any potential ownership would only serve to do the opposite (however slight.) Add in the fact that we as fans have absolutely no say or effect on who owns the club and then this whole stance people have on here becomes a bit silly really.Fully agree with this. I literally do not get the moral standards we cherry pick today. People harp on about cutting fossil fuel usage but happily consume meat (higher carbon footprint per capita than carbon emissions from an automobile). Oppressive Saudi regime but using iPhone made in China is fine. I don't really protest any of these since I do not understand where an objective line can be drawn. It's become so tedious now :/
If more people said NO then maybe real change may happen. South Africa had to change because people said NO and boycotted them, NOT because people like you welcomed them with open armsYes exactly. Where do you ethically draw the line. I mean if the Saudi's owning United made circumstances/atrocities worse in their homeland then yeah of course it would be reprehensible to back it as fans, but any potential ownership would only serve to do the opposite (however slight.) Add in the fact that we as fans have absolutely no say or effect on who owns the club and then this whole stance people have on here becomes a bit silly really.
He had a journalist kidnapped, toutured to death, chopped up to pieces and then thrown out like garbage.If anything the Saudis owning United would put them under the spotlight even more. So you could argue they'd have to clean up their act. Swings and roundabouts this debate. Everyone is entitled to their view though and I totally get those who are against it. I am all for it. If it makes us a more powerful club and gets rid of the debt then great stuff.
I said some of yall not all of yallGood job we're not all English then isn't it
Monster is a relative term.He had a journalist kidnapped, toutured to death, chopped up to pieces and then thrown out like garbage.
C'mon people. The Glazers are greedy capitalists but they are not monsters.
People can try to disguise however they want it
But these people have blood of thousand of innocent people on their hands. And these are the people you want authorizing the transfer budget.
If it was a Saudi private citizen buying the club there would be no issue. But it's the people in power who directly commit gross human abuses who want to buy the club.
Oh that’s ok then, leave them all to it. What a waste of time that world war 2 wasMonster is a relative term.
Also.....Have you not seen what's been going on it Qatar? I don't see the PSG fans lining the streets complaining about their regime. DO you not think the City owner hasn't had people 'disappear' in the desert pal? Of course he bloody has. The world is one evil place. It's not just the Saudis. Our own government and the US are the biggest arms dealers in the world yet millions of people turn out and vote for them.
People need to wise up.