US Soccer: No equal pay “because men have more responsibility”

[Carolina Red]

This won’t go over well...
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...argued-women-shouldnt-be-paid-the-same-as-men

“The job of a [men’s national team player] carries more responsibility within US Soccer than the job of a [women’s national team] player,” US Soccer argued in a court filing.

Embroiled in a lawsuit over equal pay, lawyers for the US Women’s National Team (USWNT) employer argued in a court filing Monday that women athletes are less skilled and work less demanding jobs than their male counterparts.

The filing was part of US Soccer’s attempt to prove that it has not discriminated against the World Cup champion team based on their gender.

 

[Wedge]

Us soccer what a joke of an excuse that is and hardly encouraging for any women looking to take up the game.

 

[Berbaclass]

I mean I don't believe that they deserve equal pay but that reason is just bollocks. They don't deserve equal pay because men's football is infinitely more popular/lucrative.

 

[prateik]

I think it should be proportionate to the revenue it generates .

The US Women's team is far more successful, but I have no idea how much money it makes.. viewership, sponsorship, tickets.. whatever. If it makes more money, the women should get more..

 

[Sad Chris]

Geeezus. In general I‘m not a fan of equal pay unless performance is clearly definable and measurable, but this reasoning is embarrassing for anybody involved.

 

[Carolina Red]

I mean I don't believe that they deserve equal pay but that reason is just bollocks. They don't deserve equal pay because men's football is infinitely more popular/lucrative.

Uh...

PARIS—In the three years after the U.S. women’s soccer team won the 2015 World Cup, U.S. women’s games generated more total revenue than U.S. men’s games, according to audited financial reports from the U.S. Soccer Federation.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-womens-soccer-games-out-earned-mens-games-11560765600

 

[Carolina Red]

I think it should be proportionate to the revenue it generates .

The US Women's team is far more successful, but I have no idea how much money it makes.. viewership, sponsorship, tickets.. whatever. If it makes more money, the women should get more..

The US Women have been generating more revenue than the US Men for years, according to the Wall Street Journal and US Soccer financial reports.

 

[Spiersey]

Uh...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-womens-soccer-games-out-earned-mens-games-11560765600

The games might, but sponsors and prize money don't.

 

[prateik]

The US Women have been generating more revenue than the US Men for years, according to the Wall Street Journal and US Soccer financial reports.

Then forget equal pay.. they should be getting more.

 

[Berbaclass]

Uh...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-womens-soccer-games-out-earned-mens-games-11560765600

Isn't that a flawed statistic with the USMNT not playing in a world cup in the time frame?

 

[RUCK4444]

I mean I don't believe that they deserve equal pay but that reason is just bollocks. They don't deserve equal pay because men's football is infinitely more popular/lucrative.

This. I’ve nothing against women’s football but I don’t pay my sky subscription to watch it.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Give Alex Morgan every dollar she wants so long as she has to marry me

 

[Carolina Red]

Isn't that a flawed statistic with the USMNT not playing in a world cup in the time frame?

Because they’re too shit to qualify for it...

 

[mariachi-19]

Give Alex Morgan every dollar she wants so long as she has to marry me

It seems like you win on two counts in this scenario

 

[DOTA]

Because they’re too shit to qualify for it...

Well, quite.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

It seems like you win on two counts in this scenario

That’s why we all need to get behind it

 

[SmashedHombre]

The problem is FIFA. The women are demanding an equal share of WC winnings that the men get, not more cash from the USSF.

Under the women’s new bargaining agreement, the players can also earn attendance bonuses, payment for commercial appearances and per diems that are equal and tied to what the men can earn.

So the issue here is that the men earned so much from the 2010 and 2014 WCs, but that prize money is dictated by FIFA. And women's football doesn't earn FIFA anywhere near as much.

Total prize money for the Women’s World Cup in 2019 is $30 million — the champions will walk away with about $4 million. For contrast, in the 2018 Men’s World Cup, the champions won $38 million from a total pool of about $400 million. In other words, the champions from the men’s world cup were awarded more than the total prize money in the women’s tournament. So there’s no question that there’s a huge gap in earning potential here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-soccer-players-really-earning-less-than-men/

The US Men's NT has benefitted greatly from the fact that men's football is so dominant across the globe. Do they deserve higher WC bonuses based on the fact that the men's WC brings in far more revenue, even though the US NT is shit? I dunno. I suspect they will probably win their case though. And not just because of the moronic argument put forward in the OP. Women's tennis was granted equal pay despite playing less and generating less revenue.

Maybe they should just merge the men and women's games and be done with it.

 

[Nanook]

The US Women have been generating more revenue than the US Men for years, according to the Wall Street Journal and US Soccer financial reports.

I don’t think that’s the case though I could be wrong. I think I remember reading things like sponsors and TV deals are grouped together for the men’s and women’s teams. So say Fox are paying $70m a year for the rights to the USMNT and USWNT games, they might value the men’s games at $50m and women’s at $20m but that’s not shown in those revenue figures. Same with the Nike deal and other sponsors.

 

[edcunited1878]

It's not only about equal pay or pay based on performance, but it's the basic things like equal travel benefits, stipend, etc.

For many USWNT players, the national team is an important source of annual income because they do not have the benefit of playing in a stable and well paying domestic league compared to the men (e.g. MLS, Europe, Mexico, etc.).

It's a joke that the USWNT players aren't paid more and paid based on their performances. They are the top of their competitive set at a national level and US Soccer has always benefited from this tremendously, so the women should see this as well.

 

[Adam_S]

They're in an interesting situation with the US team, which is somewhat similar to over here in Aus. Our men's team is garbage but the women's team is one of the best in the world. I'd be a bit miffed if I were them too, I think.

 

[Berbaclass]

Because they’re too shit to qualify for it...

You're comparing a team at their peak with a team performing awfully though. If the men's team qualified for a world cup they would earn more in revenue. Rightly so.

 

[POF]

I don't know the revenue structure of the US FA but it puzzles me when the expectation of equal pay is that both get paid the same. Equal pay should be pay on an equal basis not the same amount. If the USWNT and USMNT (how American) generate equal revenues, they should get paid the same. If they don't, the same pay is one subsidising the other which is not equal at all.

In Australia, the men's and women's team get the same pay. It's great but everyone knows it's a massive publicity stunt and only happened because the money the men's national team get from the FFA is an absolute drop in the ocean when it comes to their total earnings.

 

[edcunited1878]

You're comparing a team at their peak with a team performing awfully though. If the men's team qualified for a world cup they would earn more in revenue. Rightly so.

But that's qualification revenue pretty much set by FIFA prize money of the tournament. When the USMNT didn't qualify for the last World Cup, don't believe they got any revenue from it and missed their budgets because of it and other brands and companies were hurt by their lack of qualification.

It's a complicated situation, but the semantics of "because men have more responsibility" is a total joke and farce. These are professional athletes and athletes are paid performers. If you perform, you get paid. It's extremely fair for the USWNT players to ask for more pay and equal benefits that are logical.

 

[Berbaclass]

But that's qualification revenue pretty much set by FIFA prize money of the tournament. When the USMNT didn't qualify for the last World Cup, don't believe they got any revenue from it and missed their budgets because of it and other brands and companies were hurt by their lack of qualification.

It's a complicated situation, but the semantics of "because men have more responsibility" is a total joke and farce. These are professional athletes and athletes are paid performers. If you perform, you get paid. It's extremely fair for the USWNT players to ask for more pay and equal benefits that are logical.

I think they do deserve more, just not on par with the men.

 

[Carolina Red]

You're comparing a team at their peak with a team performing awfully though. If the men's team qualified for a world cup they would earn more in revenue. Rightly so.

But they don’t, and the women fecking win the thing!

It’s telling that the USMNT supports the USWNT on this issue.

 

[Berbaclass]

But they don’t, and the women fecking win the thing!

It’s telling that the USMNT supports the USWNT on this issue.

They've qualified for the last 7/8 world cups. We're at a point in time where the women's team is the most dominant and the men's team has hit a rough patch. It's a unique scenario.

They don't deserve to be on par with the men.

The women should be paid more but as far as just saying 'they deserve the same because it's the same job' no, not for me.

 

[LInkash]

The US Women have been generating more revenue than the US Men for years, according to the Wall Street Journal and US Soccer financial reports.

I can believe that, I can name a few US women's team players but not any of the men.

 

[Carolina Red]

They've qualified for the last 7/8 world cups. We're at a point in time where the women's team is the most dominant and the men's team has hit a rough patch. It's a unique scenario.

They don't deserve to be on par with the men.

The women should be paid more but as far as just saying 'they deserve the same because it's the same job' no, not for me.

Bullshit

1) The USWNT is the most dominant women’s team in history. The best the USMNT has ever done is 3rd in 1930.

2) In what way is it a different job? This should be good...

 

[Infordin]

This whole argument that "the women deserve equal or more pay because they've won the World Cup" is bollocks.

Women's football and men's football is so far apart that it can barely be considered the same sport.

 

[Berbaclass]

Bullshit

1) The USWNT is the most dominant women’s team in history. The best the USMNT has ever done is 3rd in 1930.

2) In what way is it a different job? This should be good...

In the grand scheme of things nobody cares about women's football or watches it. That's why they don't get paid as much currently. The skill level is also not on par or doesn't come close.

The USMNT reaps the rewards of being in a more popular/fruitful competition. End of story.

 

[Greck]

I mean I don't believe that they deserve equal pay but that reason is just bollocks. They don't deserve equal pay because men's football is infinitely more popular/lucrative.

It is bollocks but I'm certain this couldn't be the phrasing the lawyers must have used when presenting their argument to the judge. It may be the media outlet paraphrasing in a way to destroy the credibility of any position they disagree with. Unless the Usmnt got themselves some discount lawyers who couldn't explain basic economics

 

[Carolina Red]

In the grand scheme of things nobody cares about women's football or watches it. That's why they don't get paid as much currently. The skill level is also not on par or doesn't come close.

The USMNT reaps the rewards of being in a more popular/fruitful competition. End of story.

Yeah, that’s why the USWNT generates more revenue at the gate than the men.

Holy shit. Do you even hear yourself?

 

[Infordin]

In the grand scheme of things nobody cares about women's football or watches it. That's why they don't get paid as much currently. The skill level is also not on par or doesn't come close.

The USMNT reaps the rewards of being in a more popular/fruitful competition. End of story.

It's like saying that Ajax deserve more television money than Everton, because Ajax win their league and Everton are perennial losers.

The problem is that they play play in completely different competitions, and one competition generates far more revenue than the other.

 

[Carolina Red]

It is bollocks but I'm certain this isn't the phrasing the lawyers must have used when presenting their argument to the judge. It may be the media outlet paraphrasing in a way to destroy the credibility of any position they disagree with

“The job of a [men’s national team player] carries more responsibility within US Soccer than the job of a [women’s national team] player,” US Soccer argued in a court filing.

The Wall Street Journal just put those quotation marks there for funzies?

 

[Greck]

“The job of a [men’s national team player] carries more responsibility within US Soccer than the job of a [women’s national team] player,” US Soccer argued in a court filing.

The Wall Street Journal just put those quotation marks there for funzies?

Yes I'm a lawyer and know first hand they do this. They may not invent quotes but they butcher them so it sounds ridiculous. I'd rather see the court filing in question.

 

[Infordin]

Yeah, that’s why the USWNT generates more revenue at the gate than the men.

Holy shit. Do you even hear yourself?

Sorry, but there is a much better argument that the women's teams are actually overpaid compared to the men's teams for how much revenue they generate.

2018 men's world cup generated $6.1 billion in revenue.
The total prize money was $400 million, or 6.5%

2019 women's world cup generated $100 million in revenue
The total prize money was $30 million, or 30%

 

[Carolina Red]

Sorry, but there is a much better argument that the women's teams are actually overpaid compared to the men's teams for how much revenue they generate.

2018 men's world cup generated $6.1 billion in revenue.
The total prize money was $400 million, or 6.5%

2019 women's world cup generated $100 million in revenue
The total prize money was $30 million, or 30%

We’re talking about US Soccer paying the USWNT. US Soccer isn’t FIFA.

 

[Berbaclass]

Yeah, that’s why the USWNT generates more revenue at the gate than the men.

Holy shit. Do you even hear yourself?

Men's football and women's football is basically a different sport for all intensive purposes.

 

[Carolina Red]

Critics retort that the disparity in World Cup purses makes sense, since men’s World Cups generate far more global revenue than women’s World Cups. And that’s true.

But 14.3 million people watched the women’s final on Sunday on Fox, 22% more than watched the men’s final last year (11.4 million viewers). This year’s women’s final was the most-watched soccer telecast in the U.S. since the 2015 women’s final, which got 25.4 million viewers—topping the 24.7 million viewers who tuned in for the 2014 men’s final. (The 2019 Women’s World Cup ratings on Fox were down 9% overall from 2015.)

In fact, the 2015 Women’s World Cup final remains the most-watched soccer match in U.S. history.

In addition, Nike CEO Mark Parker recently disclosed on an earnings call that the U.S. Women's home jersey is “now the No. 1 soccer jersey, men's or women's, ever sold on Nike.com in one season.”

U.S. Soccer sponsorship revenue grew 25% between 2015 and 2016 after the USWNT won the 2015 Women’s World Cup, but U.S. Soccer sells sponsorships and broadcasting deals in a bundle, so we can’t separate how much of that revenue comes from the men vs the women.

https://finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/n...he-us-womens-soccer-pay-debate-153139503.html

 

[Carolina Red]

Men's football and women's football is basically a different sport for all intensive purposes.

1) That has what to do with the women making more gate than the men?

2) Bullshit

3) “all intents and purposes”