In the past I found that Fred used to struggle playing in the same midfield as Pogba, you could say he was still finding his feet at that point so it would be unfair to make that call. However I think the correlation between Fred's surge in form and Pogba dropping out the side through injury is more than a coincidence. I'd love for a Fred, Pogba, Fernandes midfield to succeed, how would it be set up if it was to work?
Fred & Pogba behind Fernandes? Will it work?
- Thread starter luke511
- Start date
Have to see it first, how the current Fred mesh with Pogba at the midfield base. They didn't previously isn't it - it was a clear mess.
If it fails, doesn't matter, we know Pogba and McTominay at the base works.
If it fails, doesn't matter, we know Pogba and McTominay at the base works.
A demotivated Pogba is basically useless. He will kick and scream his way out. However if Pogba wants to say (which is a big if) then I can see a midfield made up of Mct/Fred, Pogba and Fernandes work. The former will cover Vidal's role, Fernandes will be a box 2 box midfielder and Pogba would slot into a deep playmaker's role.
Yes I think so but I think it will be better in home matches where the opposition are quite happy to concede the ball.
I quite like Fred and McTominay as a pairing as they both provide a lot of energy and aggression. It helps us win the ball back quickly and help us play at a high tempo.
I quite like Fred and McTominay as a pairing as they both provide a lot of energy and aggression. It helps us win the ball back quickly and help us play at a high tempo.
In and of itself, I am sceptical.
That said, I think setting up a team is a bit more nuanced than that. For instance, I think it will be very important to keep an eye on how Shaw and Wan-Bissaka fit into the midfield puzzle in real play. Both are often called ‘defensive full-backs - and I can see them being drilled into a set up where one of them steps into certain areas to cover in free-play.
That said, I think setting up a team is a bit more nuanced than that. For instance, I think it will be very important to keep an eye on how Shaw and Wan-Bissaka fit into the midfield puzzle in real play. Both are often called ‘defensive full-backs - and I can see them being drilled into a set up where one of them steps into certain areas to cover in free-play.
Pogba Bruno
Fred
Two 8's and a 6. That's how you do it.
4-3-3
Fred
Two 8's and a 6. That's how you do it.
4-3-3
Pogba is a liability deep in a 2. Constantly loses his man and let's them run at our defence. I don't know why it's even up for debate. Pogba's best run at this club came further forward in oles first 12 games where he was unplayable. The rest of the time at the club he's been very hit and miss and definitely more miss for me.
The issue is we now have Bruno who is better in that role too.
Peesonally I'd rather see Mctomminay n Fred stay as a 2 as there have been very good signs between them.
The issue is we now have Bruno who is better in that role too.
Peesonally I'd rather see Mctomminay n Fred stay as a 2 as there have been very good signs between them.
Fred-Pogba midfield duo looked good during Pogba brief cameos against Watford and newcastle in december although both teams completely sat back,I feel Pogba-mctominay would be the starting duo,that is how he started the season,Fred isnt positionally disciplined enough to play alongside Pogba in my opinion he always need someone sitting behind him just like Pogba,I feel Ole sees Mctominay as Matic successor while Fred would be a good rotation option who would still see plenty game time
Pogba's defensive work rate is pretty lackluster, so Fred will have to cover his ass a ton.
This whole defensive workrate thing is overblown. He's played in a 2 for us pretty much since he got here, and we've had very good defences, always near the top of the league.
It's like a myth that's perpetuated because he let his runner leave him a few times. I remember that Liverpool match when all our mids were injured and Pogba had to guide Scott through the game as Scott was still new to the team. That was an immensely disciplined and mature performance from him against a very strong Liverpool.
In fact, the beginning of this season as well, before the injury, his performances were the epitome of very good midfield 8 play. hardworking, disciplined, professional. But unfortunately, he was tackled while chasing the winner against Crystal Palace, they scored, and subsequently all that goes down the drain.
To answer the question, the setup depends on Fred's defensive capacities, as Pogba has good enough defensive abilities for an 8 or 10, and Fernandes' work rate is good enough to help with winning the ball back high up the pitch.
The midfield works if Pogba can be arsed I reckon.
Yeah I think that's the trick, if Pogba is tracking back and closing down with pace then it'll work, if it's the usual jog then there's a problem as the defensive work overloads Fred and makes him flap.
I think that it's a recipe for turning the ball over, although he is doing well in recent times; Fred scares the life out of me when picking the ball off the CB's. Pogba can be erratic and can have games where he turns over possession a fair bit where he is trying to force the action for us going forward. Bruno has been immaculate and I haven't picked up on any similar issues in that regard.
I would love to see a Kroos esque player at the base, someone who can play 100+ 5-10 yard balls and keep the tempo up. Fred for me is too eratic to be playing behind Bruno and Pogba, especially with Shaw being the weakest link in the defence on that side of the pitch that Pogba operates and Fred would naturally be inclined to operate on the left side of the midfield due to him being left footed. Maybe i'd be more convinced if we upgraded Lindelof. But of course its all moot until we see it
I would love to see a Kroos esque player at the base, someone who can play 100+ 5-10 yard balls and keep the tempo up. Fred for me is too eratic to be playing behind Bruno and Pogba, especially with Shaw being the weakest link in the defence on that side of the pitch that Pogba operates and Fred would naturally be inclined to operate on the left side of the midfield due to him being left footed. Maybe i'd be more convinced if we upgraded Lindelof. But of course its all moot until we see it
This thread should have been made months ago. Anyways like others have said a motivated Pogba with Fred and Fernandes is top 2 midfield in the premier league
Not for me. McTominay, Pogba and Bruno would work better. Fred’s too easily bypassed.
The thing about Pogba is He can play anywhere in midfield and have the technical skills and physicality to do well.
It's all up to him now, chances are his ego is too big for it. Technically They could work together with Fred helping Pogba defensively whenever He's bulldozing forward.
It's all up to him now, chances are his ego is too big for it. Technically They could work together with Fred helping Pogba defensively whenever He's bulldozing forward.
Fred-Mctominay, Matic-Fred, Pogba-Mctominay. These are all the pairs we've had in a pivot this season. I'd say that Pogba-Mctominay ranks the lowest of all the pivot we've tried. Pereira-Fred pivot was out of necessity so I didn't add that
I'm not convinced. I don't see Fred as strong enough nor sophisticated defensively to play such a role in midfield. He's one of the easiest midfielders to get past in the league.
No, of course it won't work. Fred is not a CDM. It's too attacking. You can get away with only one CDM if you play a specialist. We only have Matic.
It HAS to work... because I will be devastated if it doesn't! 
If required drill the fullbacks to fill in and free up Pogba and Bruno to pull the strings, the fullbacks are already relatively defensively minded. We have youth up top to stretch the play and two world class passers to assist them.
I'm one of Pogba's biggest defenders, that said I don't believe you can be over reliant on Pogba in any sort of DM role. At the end of the day Pogba isn't a pure DM so nobody should be unhappy that he can't be relied upon in that position. Fred with fullback assistance should be ample especially against the lesser teams.
With some good coaching I believe we can make this work. We would be mad not to try it at least.
If required drill the fullbacks to fill in and free up Pogba and Bruno to pull the strings, the fullbacks are already relatively defensively minded. We have youth up top to stretch the play and two world class passers to assist them.I'm one of Pogba's biggest defenders, that said I don't believe you can be over reliant on Pogba in any sort of DM role. At the end of the day Pogba isn't a pure DM so nobody should be unhappy that he can't be relied upon in that position. Fred with fullback assistance should be ample especially against the lesser teams.
With some good coaching I believe we can make this work. We would be mad not to try it at least.
Pogba and Bruno aren't the question, its Fred. I'd take MctominayIt HAS to work... because I will be devastated if it doesn't!
I'm one of Pogba's biggest defenders, that said I don't believe you can be over reliant on Pogba in any sort of DM role. At the end of the day Pogba isn't a pure DM so nobody should be unhappy that he can't be relied upon in that position. Fred with fullback assistance should be ample especially against the lesser teams.
With some good coaching I believe we can make this work. We would be mad not to try it at least.
This is mind melter.
It won't work and we would be trying to do the sadness thing that many English managers tried to do using Gerrard and lampard.
Balance is crucial to a midfield, even if it is at the altar of talent.
Balance is crucial to a midfield, even if it is at the altar of talent.
We can only play 2 out of Fred, Pogba and Bruno. The third player needs to be a low risk player, that knows when to stay back. Someone who is calm on the ball and knows how to set up the players around him to their advantages. Pogba has shown on numerous occasions that he can’t be that player for us. Too many touches and too much focus on being part of what happens in the final third.
De Gea
Wan-Bissaka - Maguire - Taunzebe
McTominay - Fred
Bruno - Pogba
Sancho - Rashford - Martial
Wan-Bissaka - Maguire - Taunzebe
McTominay - Fred
Bruno - Pogba
Sancho - Rashford - Martial
So you are doing whatever it takes to justify Pogba. First of all 343 or 3 CB, require wingbacks, which gives you 5 at the back when defending. Your suggestion looks more like 442 with Martial as LB. I recall Giggs played LB before, that was when we were chasing a goal, all-or- nothing tactics. We can't possibly start this formation at 0th min.
I think the argument FOR Pogba is simple, replace Pogba for Fred or Bruno, or 1 of the striker. It might work once in a while but definitely not the preferred formation week in week out.
Probably not. I'd go with Fred/Bruno behind Pogba. But only in matches vs smaller opponents. For big ones, Matic/Fred behind Bruno.
Well considering it has never worked why not try it again. How many years has everyone discussed Pogbas position. How many managers. From Allegri, to Blanc to Mourinho etc. The all tried him as a 10. Doesnt work. Tried as a midfield 2. Doesnt work. Only time it ever worked was with Kante and world class players in other positions covering. Pogba is a box to box roamer. Sure he can do a job as a 10 or in a midfield 2 but that diminishes his strengths. He would probably have a few great games at left wing but that doesnt make him a winger.
Fred has also never played well alongside an attacking midfielder. He doesnt play well as a pure DM. Neither does McTominay. Alongside another defensive midfielder they do great but they are not pure DM's. More box to box but without the attacking numbers to back it up.
I dont see why we keep this farce up. Against certain teams it will work. But City, Liverpool etc? No chance. Or against any team that will dominate midfield. Just play with a midfield 3 and thats us done.
Fred has also never played well alongside an attacking midfielder. He doesnt play well as a pure DM. Neither does McTominay. Alongside another defensive midfielder they do great but they are not pure DM's. More box to box but without the attacking numbers to back it up.
I dont see why we keep this farce up. Against certain teams it will work. But City, Liverpool etc? No chance. Or against any team that will dominate midfield. Just play with a midfield 3 and thats us done.
It completely depends on Pogba staying obviously. I’d say we need two different midfielders with him in or out of the team. If you take him out of the team, we are relying on Bruno’s creativity, so it’s best to get someone like Carrick who can pick a pass (not necessarily the final pass, just one to break the lines). If he stays we probably need a younger version of Matic.
De Gea
Maguire - Taunzebe
Matic
McTominay - Fred
Bruno - Pogba
Sancho - Rashford - Martial
Maguire - Taunzebe
Matic
McTominay - Fred
Bruno - Pogba
Sancho - Rashford - Martial
Agree with that. It’s all about attitude with Pogba. We know he's good enough to do pretty much anything but he’s an influential figure and will rub off on others. OGS has to reign his ego in and get Pogba, the footballer, giving 8 out of 10 performances week in and week out - something he is well capable of.
Souness agrees.
Attitude is a big part of it but the player's characteristics come to play as well. Defensive wise Pogba is a liability. That's an innate weakness in his game like Blanc's inability to run, Smalling inability to pass the ball accurately further then the 2 meters limit, Gattuso's inability to dribble past a player or Scholes inability to tackle without maiming his opponent. All efforts to turn Pogba into this all round player had been tried before and they all failed miserably. Conte and Allegri were two of his biggest fans, the former is way more of a perfectionist then Mou let alone Ole is and both had failed to improve his game on that.
So if we want to keep Pogba and he wants to stay here then we're better embrace that weakness, we build a team around it and we protect him from the aholes who keep criticising him as we always did with previous united players.We walked that path before. We had players like him before from Cantona to RVN right to Berbatov, Evra (who was a monster when moving forward with the ball but less so in defending), Veron and Ronaldo (have you ever seen him win the ball?). In those cases we either built the side around them or we simply showed them the door.
It's likely to balance that midfield combination, the two full backs and wingers mainly have to play crucial roles.
Shaw and AWB are somewhat similar -- good defensively, can hold the ball well and passing it around but attacking wise is inconsistent.
Option A:
Martial
Rashford -- Bruno -- James
Fred -- Pogba
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof -- AWB
~in transition~
*defending*
Rashford -- Bruno -- Martial
Fred -- Pogba -- AWB
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof -- James
*attacking*
Martial
Rashford -- Bruno -- Pogba -- James
Fred -- AWB
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof
Rashford -- Bruno -- James
Fred -- Pogba
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof -- AWB
~in transition~
*defending*
Rashford -- Bruno -- Martial
Fred -- Pogba -- AWB
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof -- James
*attacking*
Martial
Rashford -- Bruno -- Pogba -- James
Fred -- AWB
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof
When we're not in possession,
On the right-er side, AWB to move centrally to cover/help Pogba defensively.
At the same time, James to move down and act as RB.
Martial also move to RW to "hold" their left back from too much overlapping.
When we're attacking,
And Pogba venture forward, AWB to play "inverted FB" role.
On the right-er side, AWB to move centrally to cover/help Pogba defensively.
At the same time, James to move down and act as RB.
Martial also move to RW to "hold" their left back from too much overlapping.
When we're attacking,
And Pogba venture forward, AWB to play "inverted FB" role.
Option B:
Martial
James -- Bruno -- ???
Pogba -- Fred
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof -- AWB
James -- Bruno -- ???
Pogba -- Fred
Shaw -- Maguire -- Lindelof -- AWB
Problems?
1) Only one "winger + wingback" hybrid type -- James. Solution? change Brandon Williams into similar role. James is perhaps a risk defensively but better attacking while Williams is better defensively so safer choice is Williams here.
2) Pogba has to be disciplined consistently, just like his role with France. He hasn't really prove he can do it with us, so it's an uncertain factor.
3) Better version (option C) of this system is for the FBs to stay where they are and to have a winger that are comfortable playing at CM/CDM eg. Giggs, Park, Beckham, KDB or Matuidi, we don't have one... (if we insist on Bruno-Pogba-Fred midfield. Pogba and Bruno actually can do that hybrid role "winger + centre-midfield" well.)
4) ?
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Against weaker midfields maybe.
We already see when McTominay is not in the team Fred runs himself into the ground covering ground for his partner, and a well drilled midfield sometimes has him chasing shadows. McTominay by contrast is a Fletcher type player. He will fit a system well but he's never going to be good enough to marshal a midfield on his own. If Pogba and Bruno are in a midfield 3 there is going to be a lot of covering and organising required of the third player and i dont think we have anyone capable of that against good opposition.
Personally i think we are best with Bruno out of the midfield and free to play further up. Pogba, McT and Fred is a great midfield three. Take our width from the full backs and the forwards, they both like to drift wide anyway.
Rashford - Martial
Bruno
Pogba - McTominay - Fred
Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB
We already see when McTominay is not in the team Fred runs himself into the ground covering ground for his partner, and a well drilled midfield sometimes has him chasing shadows. McTominay by contrast is a Fletcher type player. He will fit a system well but he's never going to be good enough to marshal a midfield on his own. If Pogba and Bruno are in a midfield 3 there is going to be a lot of covering and organising required of the third player and i dont think we have anyone capable of that against good opposition.
Personally i think we are best with Bruno out of the midfield and free to play further up. Pogba, McT and Fred is a great midfield three. Take our width from the full backs and the forwards, they both like to drift wide anyway.
Rashford - Martial
Bruno
Pogba - McTominay - Fred
Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB
I think for teams that are tough to break down that midfield works, but you likely need more control than that against teams which are higher up the table which concerns me a bit on paper. Will have to see how they all gel too, positional awareness, chemistry in passing and all that.
I could see it working if we played with 5 defenders
-----------------------DDG------------------------
-----Lindelöf----Maguire------Shaw----
Awb--------Pogba------Fred----Williams
----------------------Bruno----------------------
-------Martial-----------------Rashford-------
Or a 4-2-2 diamond. These are good headaches guys
-----------------------DDG------------------------
-----Lindelöf----Maguire------Shaw----
Awb--------Pogba------Fred----Williams
----------------------Bruno----------------------
-------Martial-----------------Rashford-------
Or a 4-2-2 diamond. These are good headaches guys
Matic has actually played really well and his return to the team has coincided with our brilliant defensive record. So in my opinion, to fit Pogba, we actually need to change a system that's been tailored to the strengths of the players we have. Probably a diamond.
Otherwise, if we have to continue with a 4-3-3, I'd place both Fred and McT on the bench and have Matic behind Pogba and Fernandes because he's the only DM we have.
Otherwise, if we have to continue with a 4-3-3, I'd place both Fred and McT on the bench and have Matic behind Pogba and Fernandes because he's the only DM we have.
This.It all depends on what Pogba wants really....If he really wants to stay and perform then great,but I think he’s already made up his mind to leave...Maybe the current situation might make it more complicated for Real or Juve to stump up the cash for him...We”ll just have to wain’t and see...