Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[rotherham_red]

Yes let pretend that he wasnt fully recovered from his injury months ago

And you're doing a really good job of impersonating someone who is seemingly ignorant of the fact that Pogba hasn't played regular football in any way shape or form for 9 months. You saw what Rashford and Kane were like today, both of whom have had three more months of football than Pogba in the last calendar year.

Get a grip, ffs.

 

[IrishMcD]

Starting both McTominay & Fred deep away against a Jose team, with Matic & Pogba on the bench is almost criminal. Same old build up problems we've seen with Pogba now with Bruno... Subs 15 mins too late.

I expected much more creativity and confidence on the ball from the team. Pretty rubbish today i thought.

As well as starting James, against a team that everyone knew was going to sit deep. Crazy decisions. Left Rashford on the field way too long.

 

[Greck]

Lineup wasn't bad, subs came at a good time contrary to hindsight but one thing that still stands is we still look contained against deep teams. We have those stretches where possessions just feels like blue balls. Pogba and Fernandes linking up well was pleasant to see. You can see why a coach might be scared to start them together when Maguire needs help at the back when we push up. The game was a 7, being rusty isn't a factor when our opponents are also rusty.

 

[SirAnderson]

Really silly to put any shade on Ole for this result.
Firstly, He put in what was a good enough starting 11 to win this match.

Secondly, even his analysis after the game is spot on from what any reasonable fan took out from the game, and knows what his squad is capable of and put them out to do so
But, thirdly, when your 80mil defender makes that kind of mistake followed by an even more horrible mistake from someone who once was the world's best keeper, it's hardly Ole's fault.
Finally, even his substitutes were much positive than it normally is and was reflective of the pace and context of the game.

Some of these armchair managers in here better go give their head a wobble.


Edit: Add to the fact it's been 3 months of football. Not even our normal first game of a season comes with less match fitness than this match, and you could see that our guys were on a better level with their fitness, and will be well prepared to match almost any time when it comes to fitness levels.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Only one mistake tonight for me, not starting Pogba. Thought it was ludicrous days ago when I heard the rumours on twitter.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We didn't 'need' 3 points for 4th. Chelsea have Liverpool and City still to play, and I don't see them getting more than 2 points from both games. So that supposed 5 point lead will be cut to 1 pretty soon. And then, they have Sheff Utd and Wolves on the final day. I can see a maximum of 4 points there also.

Come the final day, we'll know exactly what will be needed against Leicester, and I'd back us to get it with a fully fit and firing Pogba and Bruno.

Many assumptions here. We need to start to win our games plus hope Chelsea do not.
It looks pretty dark at the moment, but we can hope that Chelsea keep dropping points.

 

[rotherham_red]

Many assumptions here. We need to start to win our games plus hope Chelsea do not.
It looks pretty dark at the moment, but we can hope that Chelsea keep dropping points.

Au contraire, if anything, I'm giving Chelsea a little too much credit. I'm actually erring on the side of them losing both games vs City and Liverpool. Because that's the kind of side they are and have been this season.

That defence of theirs is there for the taking of any competent team, and unfortunately for them, half of their run-in is against these said competent teams.

EDIT - Actually, scratch that: I've just seen they also have Leicester still to play. feck me, that run-in is fecking brutal.

RE-EDIT - the Leicester is in the FA Cup, never mind.

 

[Scarecrow]

I thought he reacted great. His subs were all good and we turned the game at half time. We were unlucky not to win.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Au contraire, if anything, I'm giving Chelsea a little too much credit. I'm actually erring on the side of them losing both games vs City and Liverpool. Because that's the kind of side they are and have been this season.

That defence of theirs is there for the taking of any competent team, and unfortunately for them, half of their run-in is against these said competent teams.

They did beat Pool in the cup and they will be celebrating the title at that point. Might be easier for them than for us to beat Moyes fighting to keep West Ham up at the end.
City might not have full league focus either and I do think Chelsea can hurt them.

We will see though hard to know what form Chelsea will have just as it is with us.

 

[SirAnderson]

Only one mistake tonight for me, not starting Pogba. Thought it was ludicrous days ago when I heard the rumours on twitter.

Personally, I feel he had just enough minutes.
Our team was more than good enough to get the job done. This can't be a 1 man team. We should be able to do well like we did pre-covid19 without Pogba. He will be mostly likely starting next game, and will probably not finish it as well.

Kane was a clear example of putting a player that's been out for so long on for longer than he should.
In fact, with Pogba coming on as a sub, ensured he would be fresh when Spurs players were gassed, and could do more damage that way.

My only hindsight thing would have been on not starting Greenwood, and I also think Ole would have learnt that he over-relied on James, and will probably do the same thing regarding Greenwood, but it if I were to over-rely between the 2, it would be the latter.

 

[SirAnderson]

Many assumptions here. We need to start to win our games plus hope Chelsea do not.
It looks pretty dark at the moment, but we can hope that Chelsea keep dropping points.

If anything I'm more worried about Wolves than I am Chelsea.
I fully expect them to turn over West Ham and their final run of fixtures, while not better than ours, is better than Chelsea's.

 

[rotherham_red]

They did beat Pool in the cup and they will be celebrating the title at that point. Might be easier for them than for us to beat Moyes fighting to keep West Ham up at the end.
City might not have full league focus either and I do think Chelsea can hurt them.

We will see though hard to know what form Chelsea will have just as it is with us.

Liverpool in the cup ties is one thing (playing their kids and back up players, etc), but Liverpool in the league is another. Especially since they have City's points record to play for, as well as that game being the last game at Anfield for the season.

City with a fully fit Laporte will be a different beast also.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Personally, I feel he had just enough minutes.
Our team was more than good enough to get the job done. This can't be a 1 man team. We should be able to do well like we did pre-covid19 without Pogba. He will be mostly likely starting next game, and will probably not finish it as well.

Kane was a clear example of putting a player that's been out for so long on for longer than he should.
In fact, with Pogba coming on as a sub, ensured he would be fresh when Spurs players were gassed, and could do more damage that way.

My only hindsight thing would have been on not starting Greenwood, and I also think Ole would have learnt that he over-relied on James, and will probably do the same thing regarding Greenwood, but it if I were to over-rely between the 2, it would be the latter.

With the benefit of hindsight we didn't have the team to 'get the job done'. For me, you have to play the best team you have for each game.

In this specific game, we're fighting for 4th (how lame is that!) And for some reason the decision was taken not to start Pogba. I just can't understand the logic of that... after a 3 month lay off! He should have been ready to go. Based on today he was good to go, but he didn't start....

If he did start, I think we would of faired much better.

 

[Mainoldo]

Yes let pretend that he wasnt fully recovered from his injury months ago

He’s been fitter than a starting Harry Kane and Rashford.

 

[Giggsyking]

I understand we are rusty because of the 3 month stop, but why does he always takes that long to make the obvious changes?

Everyone with two eyes could see he needed Pogba and Greenwood on why wait until dd freaking 60th minute? He just wasted 15 minutes of the second half, why? I just dont know.

especially when you have 5 fecking substitutions.

 

[Mainoldo]

Crapiest Spurs I’ve seen in years and he’s still playing a double pivot with two non defensive midfielders playing defensive mid. Not too sure what to say really.

 

[bosnian_red]

Many assumptions here. We need to start to win our games plus hope Chelsea do not.
It looks pretty dark at the moment, but we can hope that Chelsea keep dropping points.

We have a very good run of fixtures and a fully fit squad. Chelsea and Leicester have tough fixtures. The gap will go down, just have to let the season run its course. Doesn't look dark at all.

 

[Santoryo]

Should have made the change sooner, possibly at half time. We conceded halfway through the first half and we never looked like scoring for the remaining of the half. That alone should have made Ole to seek changing things at half time, He waited to long to bring in Pogba in a game we could/should have had he brought Pogba and made changes 10-15 minutes sooner.

 

[rotherham_red]

He’s been fitter than a starting Harry Kane and Rashford.

fecking hell, I know we're not meant to criticise the poster but you really do make it hard not to at times...

Do the maths: Player A comes on for 30 minutes in a game where players B and C have played for 60 minutes. Which of these players will have expended more energy and become more tired as a result?

I'll give you all the time you need to figure out this particular brain teaser.

 

[Mainoldo]

fecking hell, I know we're not meant to criticise the poster but you really do make it hard not to at times...

Do the maths: Player A comes on for 30 minutes in a game where players B and C have played for 60 minutes. Which of these players will have expended more energy and become more tired as a result?

I'll give you all the time you need to figure out this particular brain teaser.

What’s that got to do with him not starting because we would complain if he got injured from being rush back?

Maybe look at your point and look at everyone else’s.. then try stay on subject... little brain teaser for you.

 

[Beanz]

I genuinely wish I could see from the negative perspective.
I personally had no qualms with the starting 11. The subs made sense and Pogba coming in as a sub made sense so as to go at a tired spurs without overworking him for 90min.
With less rust on our forwards, we win that game. Very little if anything can be blamed on ole

 

[mariachi-19]

I genuinely wish I could see from the negative perspective.
I personally had no qualms with the starting 11. The subs made sense and Pogba coming in as a sub made sense so as to go at a tired spurs without overworking him for 90min.
With less rust on our forwards, we win that game. Very little if anything can be blamed on ole

There's no issue, but it could have been better and thats what I think people are alluding too.

I like Daniel James, but there are four better attacking players in our squad than him.

If we pick up Sancho, he should be sixth or equal fifth with Ighalo in the pecking order.

 

[SirAnderson]

With the benefit of hindsight we didn't have the team to 'get the job done'. For me, you have to play the best team you have for each game.

In this specific game, we're fighting for 4th (how lame is that!) And for some reason the decision was taken not to start Pogba. I just can't understand the logic of that... after a 3 month lay off! He should have been ready to go. Based on today he was good to go, but he didn't start....

If he did start, I think we would of faired much better.

Again, I would disagree.

Just because we didn't win, doesn't mean it wasn't a good selection. Football isn't exclusively about the starting 11. There's luck, or the lack thereof, theirs playing a game with very little "preseason" after 3 months, and so much other variables. The ONLY way we messed up, I think, was conceding a dumb goal, but nothing we can do about that, when we arguably have our best defense out there doing the dumb stuff and messing up.

Up front, sure you can nit pick at the poor finishing but again, it's been MONTHS since we've played, surely there will be some rustiness.

Now coming to your pint of playing "best team you have each game".
Sadly, this is exactly what an arm chair manager will say, sorry to say.
There is NO way that is possible with our last 9 games, and then the FA cup as well, especially since our players have been out for 3 months. Unless you want our players to drop like flies, you have to use your squad and rotate it wisely.

Again, Pogba for me had enough minutes. I'd rather ease him in and have him for the full final run, than play the "best team every game" and have him and many others drop to the injury table, cause that's exactly what will happen.

Look at the short turnaround between our remaining fixtures also bearing in mind its more like a start of a season (3 months is even longer) with a less than desirable preseason to get back to match fitness:

Next game is in 4 days
JUNE 2020
Wed 24 Premier League
Man Utd v Sheff Utd

3 days
Sat 27 FA Cup
Norwich v Man Utd

3 days
Tue 30 Premier League
Brighton vs Man Utd

4 days
JULY 2020
Sat 04 Premier League
Man Utd v Bournemouth

5 days
Thu 09 Premier League
Aston Villa vs Man Utd

4 days
Mon 13 Premier League
Man Utd vs Southampton

2 DAYS - Probably will be moved, into what will still be a heavily congested fixture list. So probably another 4 day gap will be made.
Wed 15 Premier League
Crystal Palace vs Man Utd

From here Dates are TBC but you'd still think they will be close together, particularly if we win against Norwich, which will give us another game.

3 days
Sat 18 Premier League
Man Utd vs West Ham

8 days - if we win in the FA cup against Norwich. The FA Cup semi-finals will take place across the weekend of Saturday 18 July and Sunday 19 July, with the Emirates FA Cup Final on Saturday 1 August. So I full expect this 8 days to be cut in half to accommodate a semi final.

Sun 26 Premier League
Leicester vs Man Utd

If we make it to the final. Then 6 days till that match.
Then we got Europa league starting August 5. 4 days after the final, again, conditional on us managing to get there.

When you look at that, no manager worth there salt can start their best side with 4 or 5 days between games, every game. It's just impossible, even with 5 subs.

A point against Spurs is disappointing but not the end of the world.
Unleashing Pogba against Sheffield (albeit for 60 mins I'd suggest) on Wednesday is more prudent in the long term.
I also expect other players to be rested more than usual due to this run of fixtures, because injuries are a real possibility. Igahlo to start over Martial, Williams for Shaw, etc.
While fun for us, because we get to watch a glut of football, but for players and manager it's a very difficult balancing act.
So for us to just say it was a mistake to not play Pogba from the start tonight is a bit short-sighted and a tad over critical of what I truly believe was a difficult game to judge based on the unusually circumstances we faced.
Most pundits said yes on paper, United should win, but at the end of the day, football doesn't play out on paper.

Funny thing is, even if Pogba played tonight and we still drew, like we have on many occasions, people would have still found something to complain about against Ole and for me, it just feeds into this culture where us as fans think we know better, but truly we don't.

Yes we can have opinions, just like what I'm saying right now is my opinion, it may even be bollocks, but to say things in fact, as if we know better, for me at least, is a bit disrespectful to professional managers who don't have our privilege to hid behind keyboards and critize willy nilly.

This is not a slight at you, and I hope you don't take it that way, but just the culture of fans these days. It's probably always been like that maybe, but hey, guess it's part of the game too now.
Its emotional as a fan, I get that, and unless you winning the league every year at a canter like Bayern and others, we will always have turbulent times. During which, I feel it's better to give the benefit of the doubt to a manager who has, in my view done so much better than any of our preceding managers post Fergie, and results will eventually match it, we seeing it in patches, at that's to be expected, just like Fergie didn't conquer all before him in his first few years.

Again, I know you were not writing Ole off and merely suggesting Pogba should have started, but I think Ole did a good enough job with his line up and was let down by his captain and first choice goal keeper.
Spurs literally were toothless and if it wasn't for Lloris playing an excellent match, we could have won this 3-1.

Essay over.

EDIT: I do not you say best to you have. And not just best team. But again, what we see, and what he sees in practice, in consultation with his staff and the players, I don't think Ole says, nah I'm going to go with the second best team today. More that he had put out what he believes is the best team under the circumstances that largely we won't fully know.
But still, doesn't stop us from giving our opinion though.

 

[rotherham_red]

What’s that got to do with him not starting because we would complain if he got injured from being rush back?

Maybe look at your point and look at everyone else’s.. then try stay on subject... little brain teaser for you.

There's this little word called context that you don't seem to have a grasp of. Pogba looking 'fitter' than Rashford and Kane isn't exactly earth shattering news when the latter two have played from the start. I can't believe I'd even have to explain such a simple physiological fact, but you've proven to be denser than than most in my limited interactions with you, so perhaps it's not that unbelievable.

Also, I'd have a look at your previous posts when Pogba came back to see how you'd have reacted if Pogba had started and subsequently got injured.

 

[Wumminator]

For literally months I had to hear idiots posting about Ole playing people too much led to injuries and now those EXACT posters are claiming he should have started a player who has had about 90 minutes of football in the last nine months.

 

[Fracture90]

I’m right, though. There will be games in which Matic, Pogba and Bruno won’t work and Spurs away is generally right at the top of that list. The Fred-McTominay duo were always going to hit the ground running and I don’t think they did too much wrong.

One of them will move out for Pogba next game and I think this has always been the plan. I said as much last week.

Mate, everyone knew Spurs were going to sit deep and defend, that much is clear. MCT and Fred for all their quality offer little going forward but they're not defensive specialists either, which meant all the creative work had fallen onto Bruno's back. Imo it was better to have started with a defensive specialist in Matic and give Bruno a huge help by playing Pogba. Playing both MCT and Fred against a team that sits deep and defends means that your team will dependant on the scraps.

 

[lysglimt]

What I find most ironic is the fact that in 18 months OGS has turned this club around so much that some people expect us to roll over Spurs away - and he is criticized heavily when we draw 1-1 in a game we could and should have won.

And the same people still want him fired.

That is progress people - progress should not be a sackable offence

 

[lysglimt]

Secondly, even his analysis after the game is spot on from what any reasonable fan took out from the game, and knows what his squad is capable of and put them out to do so
But, thirdly, when your 80mil defender makes that kind of mistake followed by an even more horrible mistake from someone who once was the world's best keeper, it's hardly Ole's fault.

The goal was a combination of a bunch of errors...

1) Rashford was not awake when Shaw played the ball - he should have prevented that ball from bouncing straight back
2) Maguire did really poorly in trying to stop Bergwijn
3) Lindelofs positioning was awful - he should have been a lot closer to Maguire to provide some cover
4) DDG should have saved it...

But in fairness Bergwijn did really well ...

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Only complaint is the late substitution. It's not the first time. He always makes late substitutions even when it's clear as day what should be changed.

 

[Mainoldo]

There's this little word called context that you don't seem to have a grasp of. Pogba looking 'fitter' than Rashford and Kane isn't exactly earth shattering news when the latter two have played from the start. I can't believe I'd even have to explain such a simple physiological fact, but you've proven to be denser than than most in my limited interactions with you, so perhaps it's not that unbelievable.

Also, I'd have a look at your previous posts when Pogba came back to see how you'd have reacted if Pogba had started and subsequently got injured.

He’s been fitter because he’s recovered from his injury before the other two. I didn’t mention anything about him looking fitter in the match did I?

Maybe you should take a time out. Your missing all the ingredients your claiming I don’t have. Is that enough context for you now?

 

[Drainy]

Only real controversies in the starting 11 were Fred/McTominay over Matic/Pogba and James over anyone else who can play right wing.

With Pogba he's played like 8 games this season and had 2 surgeries. Starting him against Spurs might have been a short term boost to the team, but is a risk for a muscle injury. Matic is a bit slow for a 2 and can take some time to find a rhythm - so I have no problem with starting Fred and McTominay who can both battle and recycle the ball, as long as wide players are capable of supporting Bruno with creativity.

James was an awful choice for right wing this game. He is a player who relies on his one physical advantage- pace and even then he depends on a progressive pass into space to beat his man more than being able to take them on. Therefore he needs space in behind and/or midfielders who can play through balls- not McTominay and Fred. And even then he is lacks quality in his end product.

I can understand wanting to protect Greenwood from a very physical side and bring him on as they tire, but James was not the man to play in this game.

It is still a joke that we've not bought a quality right winger in all these years. I am (as I'm sure everyone else is) hoping we sort that out this summer with Sancho.
Get him and that is the right wing sorted and a quality option for the left when Rashford needs a rest. Greenwood can rotate between the right and up front.

Get a player who will balance the midfield with Pogba and Bruno as well while we are at it.

 

[cyberman]

We dominated the play from minute 1. I know Jose came out with his bullshit later but they really tried to press us and we played the quick passes in midfield really well. We forced them back.
Its a huge improvement in our game. I first noticed it at Anfield where we passed aroind their press for the last 25 minutes and forced them to defend deep and we have carried it on.
I cant see how the lesser sides can live with that with no crowd and the settings being exactly the same. Its a fantastic chance to show some consistency

 

[Gomes]

I like how Spurs turned from an awful team with an over the hill manager into a team which draws should be celebrated with.
So much progress in 90 minutes.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

No complaint from me... other than one simple criticism --- make the changes earlier please.. every minutes count, earlier the better.

Otherwise, every Ole's decision makings today are reasonable and fair.

 

[rotherham_red]

He’s been fitter because he’s recovered from his injury before the other two. I didn’t mention anything about him looking fitter in the match did I?

Maybe you should take a time out. Your missing all the ingredients your claiming I don’t have. Is that enough context for you now?

He's recovered after a longer layoff, than the both of them and has had a far more recent history of fecking up his pre-existing injuries upon comebacks than either Rashford or Kane.

You're just making things up now. You literally said, and I quote:

He’s been fitter than a starting Harry Kane and Rashford.

If that isn't referring to this game, what other game could you have been referring to in the last three months?

This is classic you: for an argumentative poster, you are absolutely shocking at constructing the most basic of arguments.

You're still way off missing the mark. Never mind the ingredients, you're in the living room struggling to baking a cake and wondering why the TV isn't heating up

 

[Mainoldo]

He's recovered after a longer layoff, than the both of them and has had a far more recent history of fecking up his pre-existing injuries upon comebacks than either Rashford or Kane.

You're just making things up now. You literally said, and I quote:


If that isn't referring to this game, what other game could you have been referring to in the last three months?

This is classic you: for an argumentative poster, you are absolutely shocking at constructing the most basic of arguments.

You're still way off missing the mark. Never mind the ingredients, you're in the living room struggling to baking a cake and wondering why the TV isn't heating up

How can you quote what I said and still misunderstand it. Basic comprehension. I expanded and told you what I meant. I didn’t mention the game at all in my comment. I said he’s fitter as before the pandemic Pogba was touch and go for Spurs whilst Kane and Rashford were touch and go for the Euro’s. So who was in better shape?

I’m fed up of schooling you.. I’m going to start charging a fee soon.

 

[BR7]

I think this comment represents most of us who don’t want ole as manager

 

[BR7]

Why are some pople on this thread assuming that those of us who don’t want ole hate ole? You guys clearly want Ole as manager and throw the term haters at those of us who don’t. Someone earlier said he doesn’t hate ole but infact love’s Ole the player just doesn’t want him as our manager. There is nothing wrong with that comment and I agree with him. I don’t rate ole currently that isn’t to say he can’t go somewhere else and earn his stripes and then come back and manage us. He isn’t ready and we are not a stepping stone club for managers.

 

[Foxbatt]

Lineup wasn't bad, subs came at a good time contrary to hindsight but one thing that still stands is we still look contained against deep teams. We have those stretches where possessions just feels like blue balls. Pogba and Fernandes linking up well was pleasant to see. You can see why a coach might be scared to start them together when Maguire needs help at the back when we push up. The game was a 7, being rusty isn't a factor when our opponents are also rusty.

But this is where tactics DO come into play. Look at out EL Final against Ajax. Jose didn't let them have a sniff. Yesterday everyone apart from Ole knew how a Jose team would play. They did exactly the same. You simply do not get space behind the defence line in a Jose team. Ole should have played Odion up front and dropped James and do not attack Spurs so much. We also did not have width at all.
I think Ole thinks he is much better than he is. That midfield is so unbalanced with Scott and Fred and Bruno. Bruno and Pogba can be very good attacking midfield players. So let them attack and put Matic in as the holding player only because he is the only one who can play in that position.

 

[Mainoldo]

But this is where tactics DO come into play. Look at out EL Final against Ajax. Jose didn't let them have a sniff. Yesterday everyone apart from Ole knew how a Jose team would play. They did exactly the same. You simply do not get space behind the defence line in a Jose team. Ole should have played Odion up front and dropped James and do not attack Spurs so much. We also did not have width at all.
I think Ole thinks he is much better than he is. That midfield is so unbalanced with Scott and Fred and Bruno. Bruno and Pogba can be very good attacking midfield players. So let them attack and put Matic in as the holding player only because he is the only one who can play in that position.

I also love it when things don’t work and he tells players to swap sides . I think even the CB’s done it this time. It’s as funny as the Kovacic for Barkley substitution.