He was challenged by Liverpool, yes. But he was expected to win the league. He was given a blank cheque, it would be a failure if he didn't.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
People saying Pep's not a fighter because he left Barca in 2012... Like wtf?! Ok Real won the league but then exploded next season, if anything he lacked support from Barca's hierarchy after his friends left and some players like Pique wouldn't follow him anymore. And if we believe rumours then he was close to resigning from Bayern at the end of his second season there for the very same reasons. Sabbatical this, PSG that but maybe he's simply happy at City. Hard to believe, I know.
I tried to say, that nobody is going to question Pep's CL performance as City manager, if he wins it with them. Personally I am not impressed by his CL performances one way or another over the last 6 years. I think he is a fantastic manager, but he has at least one (big) flaw.
Nah this is moving the goalposts
After his first season everyone said, "alright bald feck let's see what you got"
When he fell 10 points behind Liverpool last season everyone said, "ah a real proper challenge, let's see what you got you bald feck"
Regardless of his resources he's been challenged properly throughout his career. He's failed some and passed some just like every manager. But making it out to seem like this is his first proper challenge is flatearthism
City finished 4th that season 3 points ahead of Southampton and 4 ahead of West Ham. Why is it people totally disregard the squad standard and rebuild that was required?
That squad included Hart, Fernando, Sagna, Zabaleta, Kolarov, Clichy, Nasri, Bony, Navas, Delph, Mangala, Demichelis, Toure, Roberts, Otamendi, Iheanacho and Denayer. 17 players that were old, too young or arguably not good enough.
Yes he spent money, but it was required. Last two seasons City won 6/7 domestic trophies and one with over 100 points which EPL fans claimed was impossible in England! They could end the season with 4/5 trophies.
Would have made a CL final last year if not for a handball goal imo.
His first team net spend is extremely close figure to what United have spent. People act like hes spent £500m+ more than other top sides.
Cant fully judge this season yet, but hes been a success based on what has been achieved over 3 years. CL holds too much importance especially when it comes to Guardiola. He can improve in that department though without question.
He's always had either top class players or money though, that's my point. I'd like to see him give management a go without those, or stick around long enough to rebuild a side.
He already rebuilt a side or to be accurate he has already been part of a rebuilt, it's the current one. And it's his fourth season which is more than the average tenure for all managers.
They gave up halfway through the season when they announced their manager was a dead man walking. Their squad included Kompany, Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne, David Silva, and Fernandinho. The bulk of their success was built on these players. Who has been added to their squad that has contributed more?
They may have finished fourth but they were also Champions League semi finalists, further than they’ve been since. Saying he took over a team that finished fourth is deliberately leaving out half the story. He’s done well but for the squad he inherited, the money he’s spent and his reputation, he should have done more. They’ve won two titles out of four. They won two from five before that and both those managers got sacked for not doing well enough. If he wins the Champions League this season then it goes from being the bare minimum required to a great success.
On this point, per transfermarket, he has spent £697m since he’s been at City. In the same period United have spent £581m. He already had a vastly superior squad to begin with. That’s before you look at the difference between City and everyone else. Everybody knows United have been spectacularly bad in this period.
I don’t think people realise how much city fans don’t care about the champions league.
All the ones I know, and I know a good amount, want to see them consistently competing for and winning the league.
He’s dominated domestically for the past few years, winning league titles and the cups.
He’s not done amazingly in the champions league, but he might do better in the future if they stay in it and he stays there.
To say he’s done the bare minimum is crazy imo.
All the ones I know, and I know a good amount, want to see them consistently competing for and winning the league.
He’s dominated domestically for the past few years, winning league titles and the cups.
He’s not done amazingly in the champions league, but he might do better in the future if they stay in it and he stays there.
To say he’s done the bare minimum is crazy imo.
He bought and rebought players until he got it right, yeah. Signs Claudio Bravo. Didn't work, get me Ederson. The same goes for the nineteen fullbacks he's bought. Most managers could do that. I'd like to see him trying to get Aston Villa playing good football.
Of course they care about winning it. They might pretend they don’t, but if they ever get their hands on it you’ll soon see their attitudes change.
Most managers couldn't do that and you know it, that's why his teams beat records. He could get Aston Villa play good football but they won't win because the players at his disposal will be of a lesser standard and less consistent and managers don't do that anyway, they don't go to lesser clubs just for the sake of it.
Pep took a title winning team, spent a shot ton of money and.. won a couple more titles with them. That’s what it boils down to at the end of the day.
Not all that impressive IMO, possession stats and all.
I know he wouldn't be up for it, because he couldn't have unlimited resources or world class players.
Like every other top manager. It's a ridiculous point to make.
He has though. If two titles in 4 years was good enough they wouldn’t have got rid of two managers for getting two in four and a bit years.
Obviously we care about winning it but it’s no secret City fans are far more apathetic towards CL success than fans of United and Liverpool in particular. I grew up watching Samaras. City winning the CL wasn’t even a dream, my biggest hope was competing for a domestic cup or scraping a spot in the UEFA Cup. It’s natural that fans of United who grew up on things like the 1999 season have far more of a romantic attachment to European competitions. Likewise I’m sure City fans younger than me who mostly know City as a European side care more than I do about winning it.
The 'gave up' has been proven to be a myth many times. Guardiola was confirmed on 1st Feb, City won 8/18 from Sept to end of Jan after stealing a 1-0 win at Palace with an injury time goal. Form had been woeful long before Pep was confirmed.
So beating Kiev and the known bottlers PSG to make SFs is something to be wax lyrical over?
You named 6 good enough players in a squad of over 20, backs my point up. One was injury prone and Sterling was mainly potential back then at 20/21. Half a team.
Transfermarkt figures are not accurate. Its closer to £635m which also includes a large amount for academy signings. United spending was £589m. So yeah around 46m difference, nothing at all in todays market!
His squad was not 'vastly superior'
Unless you feel like stating all these superior players? United had DDG, Mata, Herrera, Rooney, Martial, Depay, Carrick and Schweinsteiger...
Never knew finishing fourth equals title winning team...
They were sitting second, three points off the top when Guardiola was announced. Heavy favourites to win a third title in five years. They took 22 points from the remaining 15 games. How did they not give up?
I never said beating those teams was a great achievement. It’s a better achievement than losing to Monaco, Liverpool and Spurs mind you.
It’s accurate for United but not for City? Are you having a laugh listing players like Schweinsteiger, Depay, Carrick and Rooney as evidence their squad wasn’t vastly superior to the one United had? One retired a year later having barely played due to injury, two went to semi retirement in America and Depay was shite. De Gea is the only player listed that would’ve got into City’s squad. I’ve already stated the vastly superior players. Sterling, Aguero, Silva, Fernandinho, Kompany and De Bruyne. All but one of them still key players. Take the blinkers off.
That’s not what it is about at all. He has put himself in that position by spending a small nations GDP on players on top of an already competitive squad.
It’s not just about the results or the trophies, but when you put yourself in the position he has, things change.
I’m sorry, you can’t spend half a billion on players, have a whole club dedicated to providing you a platform for your specific ideas years before you arrive, and then get praised for your style when you didn’t actually bring much more success than was normal before you arrived. He spent serious money to get those extra points and to look more attractive (at times), while doing it.
Teams like Atalanta and Sheffield United have been lauded for interesting and creative tactics and styles. You can’t dismiss criticism just because he has an attractive style of play.
If you don’t want the criticism that comes with a failure to win, don’t give yourself a massive, consistent, illegal advantage over the rest of the field.
No it isn't? Do you think Pep could win the Scottish league with Aberdeen? Or win the Champions League with Porto?
Maybe. But I doubt we'll ever find out.
Never got this notion he couldn't well at "lesser" clubs (relative to their expectations obviously, if you expect him to win the league with Villa to prove himself ofcourse he will "fail"). He won't go to one to prove to a point and why should he? If you got to be CEO of a supermarket would you voluntarily relegate yourself to till worker? Ofcourse you wouldn't.
Sarri earned his shot at the top by getting Empoli competing in Serie A playing beautiful football, so not sure why (if he had too) Pep couldn't have done the same at a similar sized club.
The only way he got lucky was in the timing of being offered the Barca job, if he was the chancer some people like to portray him as he'd have gone as quickly as he arrived and we'd have long forgotten about him by now.
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I don't know but that's an entirely different point. Porto were the best team in Portugal not a small club and Mourinho wouldn't have joined a lesser club if he had the choice, SAF joined Aberdeen oraganically too, he didn't picked a lesser club they were the best club available to him at the time. And if Deschamps can reach the CL final in 2004, there is a fair chance that Guardiola could do the same.
And it's a pointless exercise the reality is that Guardiola managed at the highest level and has been one of the best if not the best during that period of time which isn't easy to do otherwise the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern wouldn't be sacking managers left, right and center.
I'm not saying he's a chancer, I'm not saying he should go and manage Aston Villa to prove himself as a manager. But I'd put good money on his next job being more of the same.
I'm not saying Porto are a small club, but taking them to the champions league was a great achievement. Again, I'm not saying Pep should go out of his way to pick a shit club. I'm merely saying he only ever fancies oil clubs or clubs where the league is won in late august. His next job will be no different.
But that's irrelevant, it wasn't a repeatable achievement and highly based on the draws. That's why managers are mainly judged on the league not cups. And you still don't have a point because it applies to all managers, Guardiola just happened to start at a big club and he performed from day one, from that point there isn't really a scenario where a manager would purposely manage at a lesser level.
Is there a scenario where he doesn’t...
a) go to a league where everyone wins the double and...win the double
or
b) go to the team with the best squad, spend an obscene amount of cash on top of that, cheat, and still only win half the time?
Because if there isn’t, then it’s impossible to label him a genius.
No one asked you to label him a genius.
We have had to hear it on a pretty consistent basis over the last 4 years. It’s grating.
I'm not saying it's his fault for starting at the top, merely that those question marks will follow him around because he's only ever had fertile conditions for success surrounding him in every club he's managed. It's the same reason people still had doubts about Zidane even after winning 3 European cups in a row.
Laporta has said if he's re- elected president that he's going all out for Pep to return home. Can see it happening too.
Think next season is Peps last in England. Will probably win the league too if he buys well. With City having no CL footy (most likely) that's going to give them a huge edge in the title race.
Rather the berties than the vermin retaining it too.
Think next season is Peps last in England. Will probably win the league too if he buys well. With City having no CL footy (most likely) that's going to give them a huge edge in the title race.
Rather the berties than the vermin retaining it too.
Wonder how the Barcelona fans would react to Pep returning and likely phasing Messi out or giving him the boot ala Ronaldinho.
Marlos Moreno & Ante Palaversa don't count since they are nothing more than youth signings that will likely never play for the club & will likely be sold for a profit, Douglas Luiz is in similar siutation (the only difference was that he was sold for a profit). Likewise Rodri & Cancelo have only been here a season and will likely do well once they adapt to the PL (once only has to look at their previous CV's & Bernardo Silva's own time at City to see what I mean) while Danilo as I have said before was reasonally good for City and was sold for a profit.
So when you take account of the fact that John Stones has had some good moments during this time at the club (and will likely do a lot better once he has better competition than Nichlas "Error Prone" Otamendi, I still maintain that Nolito, Bravo, Mendy (due to injuries) & maybe Angeliño are the only flops that have been signed during Pep's time at the club.
And that they cannot finish their chances in the Big Games on far too many occasions, otherwise I would agree with you.
Fortunately for Manchester City, they have owners that actually want to spend money to improve the squad (wish I could say the same about United). However they are going to have to challenge FFP itself (via taking UEFA to court) to make it happen.
Agreed that Rodri should stick to being a DM (with Gundogan being a backup rather than playing alongside him), especially when he did pretty well under that role under Simeone.
Signing Koulibaly, Skriniar & De Jong would help address this issue; since they would not only replace Kompany Otamendi & Fernandinho, but would also force Laporte, Stones & Rodri to step up their game and be forced to fight for their places in the Team.
Signing a proper LB like Digne would be the perfect solution to force Mendy to step up his game & try and reach his potential, the only trouble is that I want Digne to come to United instead.
They can afford to get all 4 players (plus another CB, a David Silva replacement and a additional Winger as well) without the need to sell, especially since FFP is going to be suspended next season. Besides if they get rid of Mendy, Cancelo, Stones, Sane & Jesus; they are going to be lacking in both depth & competition in LB, RB, Winger & ST, which would undermine any attempt to win the Premier League & Champions League next season.
Juventus are currenty struggling to afford Aaron Ramsey's wages, how can anyone think that they can afford a Pep style rebuild? Unless of course there is a plan by the Agnelli's to invest Billions of Euros into the Old Lady that I have yet to hear about.
Mancini 2009-2013 - 2/3 trophies, one title
- Premier league 2011-2012
- FA Cup 2010-2011
- Community Shield 2012
- Premier league 2013-2014
- League Cup 2013-2014, 2015-2016
- Premier league 2017-2018, 2018-2019
- FA cup 2018-2019
- League cup 2017-2018, 2018-2019, 2019-2020
- Community shield 2018, 2019
- Current record points total in the premier leauge
Haha, over 500 million (again, vastly superior starting position to United, none of the mismanagement, and financial doping), but he won some more league cups. Amazing 
City since 2016-2017:Haha, over 500 million (again, vastly superior starting position to United, none of the mismanagement, and financial doping), but he won some more league cups. Amazing
Premier League: Two Titles (achieved with 100 & 98 points respectively), One 2nd Placed Finish (likely) & One 3rd Placed Finish
FA Cup: One Title, One Semi-Final Appearance & One 5th Round Appearance
League Cup: Three Titles & One 4th Round Appearance
Europe: Two CL Quarter-Final Appearances & One CL Round of 16 Appearance
United since 2016-2017:
Premier League: One 2nd Placed Finish (81 Points), One (likely) 4th/5th Placed Finish & Two 6th Placed Finish's
FA Cup: One Runners Up Finish & Two Quarter-Final Appearances
League Cup: One Title, One 5th Round Appearance & One 3rd Round Appearance
Europe: One EL Title, One CL Quarter-Final Appearance & One CL Round of 16 Appearance
Clearly Manchester City have had the far better form than ourselves both Domestically & even in Europe. Had they carried on the high spending levels in 2018-2019 & 2019-2020 (rather than dramatically reduce it compared to 2016-2017 & 2017-2018), they would have done even better in Europe than we have done.
I have said this before, but United can’t be used as any bar for comparison. There has been severe mismanagement at United for years. They started off well behind, spent less (hidden City wages), had three managers with three different ideas and Woodward in charge of it all with no experience and no plan.
Guardiola had a club with already the best squad in the league, he spent more than anyone else (we don’t know the full extend of what payments were hidden), broke FFP, prepared especially for him YEARS before he eventually arrived and has not achieved that much more than those before him.
Forget United as a gauge. Guardiola has EVERY conceivable advantage over every other team in the league, so much so, that they broke financial restrictions to make sure he ha a bench that no one else in the league could get close to.
What he has done is fine, but when you consider what was done to give him so much of an advantage, it’s an average return. One that many other managers could have achieved given the same privileges as he has had.
Not a patch on Ferguson, and Klopp’s achievements in England belittle his own now too.
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He inherited the best squad in the league. Most of which are still his best players. Aguero, KDB, Silva, Sterling. He then went on to break all Premiership spending records. In addition to inheriting the best squad which had only underachieved the season before once it was announced mid session Pep would be joining.
The same squad had won 2 titles prior to that under achieving 4th place finish.